The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Nov 26th 2010, 9:50 am
#1
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The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Put the kettle on and settle in.
OK I’ve been back a while now (since Feb) and thought I’d give a bit of an update for those that are interested:
Background for any ‘newbies’: Been away from the UK for 21yrs, mainly lived in Sydney for that time, but also 3 other countries on and off. (2 of which were non English speaking) and traveled extensively around Oz for work (mainly major cities). Very willing ‘returnee’ to the UK, have known for about 5yrs that’s what I wanted, spent 3mths here in 2006 and made 1 or 2 trips per year home in the last 12yrs. I am an Oz citizen so is Mrs TB both she’s not from Oz originally.
Jobs/economy: Pretty bad but I think getting a bit better and doesn’t seem so bad in the South East. My family is from the Sth west and that’s where we based ourselves upon arrival. I have 15yrs significant international level experience at what I do and 2-3 yrs ago could have picked up the phone and had someone fly me to SG for an interview and have a good role upon arrival. I couldn’t do that this time and ‘had’ to be on the ground in the UK. I’m fairly fussy with roles but even so I was still surprised it too me from end of Feb to mid May to get something I was happy with. It actually took my wife less time, but she had to go to Korea for a while but when she started looking it took about 4wks. Again she is very experienced (at multi country international accounting).
We’ve ended up in Surrey which is very nice, we have just moved to a quieter apartment and we live in a very nice little town about 10mins from Guildford. OK, here are my general observations, I hope they are helpful.
Economy: use the length of time it took me to get a job as a barometer of how things are here. They are not as dire as the press is making out, but it’s not rosy either. My impression is that it’s much worse in the north of the country. There are some good bargains to be had in the housing market but the gov has scrapped stamp duty on dwellings under £250k so a lot of people are offering £249k on stuff advertised at £275k and some people are getting them but most are not, it seems that sellers aren’t ‘that’ desperate, at least not where I live. I’d say the bigger bargains are to be had in the £350-400k bracket.
Work culture: It’s been a long time since I’ve worked long term in ‘corporate UK’. For sure people are way more professional here than their counterparts in Oz and operate on a higher level of understanding. Having said that the Great British humour that we know and love and is evident in most walks of life seems sadly lacking in my office and my wife’s going by what she tells me. It’s certainly not as much ‘fun’ working here, but it’s not rubbish either. I think this is mostly due to the fact that so many people are fearful of losing their jobs.
Speaking for both our offices there seems much less flexibility for parents to pick up kids etc (personally I think it’s a good thing as I got sick of having to do extra work in Oz just because we decided not to have kids.)
I’ve done lots of travel here as part of my job ( as I did in Oz) but expenses are much more tightly controlled and you have to think about your trip a lot more in terms of getting your money back or getting the corp card approved. In oz everything was based around ‘reasonable expenses’ etc, here there are hard and fast limits, and depending where you go, they’re pretty tight limits.
What hasn’t changed:
The culture: in general hasn’t changed. People are far friendlier than in Oz on a casual basis. What I mean is I have some very good friends in Oz but that’s only through triathlon and cycling. In the UK it’s much easier to strike up casual conversation, in the shops, pub or wherever really. People seem to take more interest in what you are actually saying to them rather than the lip service paid in Oz. I’ve seen very very little evidence of this ‘chav culture’ that is meant to exist and saw far more ant1-social behavior in the Lower Nth shore of Sydney.
Driving: Light years ahead of Oz in terms of courtesy and general driving standards.
The countryside: Still beautiful, the colours, the lanes, the trees, the walks, the sense of freedom that you can pretty much go anywhere.
The media: Still miserable, doom and gloom sells papers, Daily fail still spouting its racist crap.
The negativity of people: Still very evident, but I’ve questioned lots of people about this and usually get the answer, ‘well it’s what we do isn’t it!’
What has changed:
The demographic: lots of people from lots of places and lots more Far Eastern faces than before (still a drop in the ocean though). We live in the sth east so it’s probably more ‘evident’ here than anywhere outside of London, but the fact is that the area is still very much dominated by white English speaking people. I’ve seen some good and bad with the new arrivals but nothing dramatic.
Parking ability: people still drive very well here but seem to have lost the ability to park with any sense of consideration. It’s not out of control but more evident than it was and seems mostly caused by people driving in appropriately sized vehicles.
Young people are dumber: well not dumber, but they seem far shallower than I ever remember them. The talk on Mondays is always about X-Factor in my office amongst the under 30s (and quite a few over 30s!). I’m sure this is the same as in oz but I don’t remember it being this bad here and the amount of people that seem to have lost the ability for independent thought is quite depressing.
Litter: My area is fine, but I’ve seen some bad areas around the place for litter, especially what looks like people that have been driving along and just lobbed stuff out of the window (on my bike I tend to notice things on the side of the road more). Having said that, the amount of mindless vandalism seems non existent compared to Oz.
A general note about cost of living: Mostly cheaper here, especially health and dentistry, food and utilities. Telco and BB are laughingly cheap compared to Oz. Rents are comparable IME, but you wouldn’t want to be a renter here for as long as you could in Oz as you have to pay water and council tax. Swings and roundabouts really I get 30days personal holiday here compared to 20 in Oz, Mrs TB gets 25.
In summary: The old Britain is still there in abundance, but you have to work harder to find it amongst the general mood here at the moment. I’m very very happy here, but Mrs TB, not so much. There are definitely sacrifices that have to be made to come back here (as there are with any move) and for me they are 100% worth it, for her it’s harder as it’s not her home.
If I was here with kids, I’d be worried about the lack of services that will be available to them when they grow up. The Austerity Measures don’t really affect a middle aged working couple but as you get older you’ll need to access gov services more, and they’re disappearing. Hopefully they’ll return, but as it stands today, that’s the thing I’d be worried about.
I’d be happy to stay here for the rest of my life. Would I choose Britain over my marriage if it came down to it? No, I wouldn’t. Maybe Britain at it’s best, and if my marriage was a lot lot worse. But not this Britain over what I have with Mrs TB.
I think we have a couple of years here before she’ll want to return, maybe things will have changed, maybe they won’t. Britain is still brilliant and in my mind, Oz is still as craptacular as it ever was.
I’m just not sure any of that matters as much as I thought it once did.
I hope this was not too long, I’ve tried to be very honest.
OK I’ve been back a while now (since Feb) and thought I’d give a bit of an update for those that are interested:
Background for any ‘newbies’: Been away from the UK for 21yrs, mainly lived in Sydney for that time, but also 3 other countries on and off. (2 of which were non English speaking) and traveled extensively around Oz for work (mainly major cities). Very willing ‘returnee’ to the UK, have known for about 5yrs that’s what I wanted, spent 3mths here in 2006 and made 1 or 2 trips per year home in the last 12yrs. I am an Oz citizen so is Mrs TB both she’s not from Oz originally.
Jobs/economy: Pretty bad but I think getting a bit better and doesn’t seem so bad in the South East. My family is from the Sth west and that’s where we based ourselves upon arrival. I have 15yrs significant international level experience at what I do and 2-3 yrs ago could have picked up the phone and had someone fly me to SG for an interview and have a good role upon arrival. I couldn’t do that this time and ‘had’ to be on the ground in the UK. I’m fairly fussy with roles but even so I was still surprised it too me from end of Feb to mid May to get something I was happy with. It actually took my wife less time, but she had to go to Korea for a while but when she started looking it took about 4wks. Again she is very experienced (at multi country international accounting).
We’ve ended up in Surrey which is very nice, we have just moved to a quieter apartment and we live in a very nice little town about 10mins from Guildford. OK, here are my general observations, I hope they are helpful.
Economy: use the length of time it took me to get a job as a barometer of how things are here. They are not as dire as the press is making out, but it’s not rosy either. My impression is that it’s much worse in the north of the country. There are some good bargains to be had in the housing market but the gov has scrapped stamp duty on dwellings under £250k so a lot of people are offering £249k on stuff advertised at £275k and some people are getting them but most are not, it seems that sellers aren’t ‘that’ desperate, at least not where I live. I’d say the bigger bargains are to be had in the £350-400k bracket.
Work culture: It’s been a long time since I’ve worked long term in ‘corporate UK’. For sure people are way more professional here than their counterparts in Oz and operate on a higher level of understanding. Having said that the Great British humour that we know and love and is evident in most walks of life seems sadly lacking in my office and my wife’s going by what she tells me. It’s certainly not as much ‘fun’ working here, but it’s not rubbish either. I think this is mostly due to the fact that so many people are fearful of losing their jobs.
Speaking for both our offices there seems much less flexibility for parents to pick up kids etc (personally I think it’s a good thing as I got sick of having to do extra work in Oz just because we decided not to have kids.)
I’ve done lots of travel here as part of my job ( as I did in Oz) but expenses are much more tightly controlled and you have to think about your trip a lot more in terms of getting your money back or getting the corp card approved. In oz everything was based around ‘reasonable expenses’ etc, here there are hard and fast limits, and depending where you go, they’re pretty tight limits.
What hasn’t changed:
The culture: in general hasn’t changed. People are far friendlier than in Oz on a casual basis. What I mean is I have some very good friends in Oz but that’s only through triathlon and cycling. In the UK it’s much easier to strike up casual conversation, in the shops, pub or wherever really. People seem to take more interest in what you are actually saying to them rather than the lip service paid in Oz. I’ve seen very very little evidence of this ‘chav culture’ that is meant to exist and saw far more ant1-social behavior in the Lower Nth shore of Sydney.
Driving: Light years ahead of Oz in terms of courtesy and general driving standards.
The countryside: Still beautiful, the colours, the lanes, the trees, the walks, the sense of freedom that you can pretty much go anywhere.
The media: Still miserable, doom and gloom sells papers, Daily fail still spouting its racist crap.
The negativity of people: Still very evident, but I’ve questioned lots of people about this and usually get the answer, ‘well it’s what we do isn’t it!’
What has changed:
The demographic: lots of people from lots of places and lots more Far Eastern faces than before (still a drop in the ocean though). We live in the sth east so it’s probably more ‘evident’ here than anywhere outside of London, but the fact is that the area is still very much dominated by white English speaking people. I’ve seen some good and bad with the new arrivals but nothing dramatic.
Parking ability: people still drive very well here but seem to have lost the ability to park with any sense of consideration. It’s not out of control but more evident than it was and seems mostly caused by people driving in appropriately sized vehicles.
Young people are dumber: well not dumber, but they seem far shallower than I ever remember them. The talk on Mondays is always about X-Factor in my office amongst the under 30s (and quite a few over 30s!). I’m sure this is the same as in oz but I don’t remember it being this bad here and the amount of people that seem to have lost the ability for independent thought is quite depressing.
Litter: My area is fine, but I’ve seen some bad areas around the place for litter, especially what looks like people that have been driving along and just lobbed stuff out of the window (on my bike I tend to notice things on the side of the road more). Having said that, the amount of mindless vandalism seems non existent compared to Oz.
A general note about cost of living: Mostly cheaper here, especially health and dentistry, food and utilities. Telco and BB are laughingly cheap compared to Oz. Rents are comparable IME, but you wouldn’t want to be a renter here for as long as you could in Oz as you have to pay water and council tax. Swings and roundabouts really I get 30days personal holiday here compared to 20 in Oz, Mrs TB gets 25.
In summary: The old Britain is still there in abundance, but you have to work harder to find it amongst the general mood here at the moment. I’m very very happy here, but Mrs TB, not so much. There are definitely sacrifices that have to be made to come back here (as there are with any move) and for me they are 100% worth it, for her it’s harder as it’s not her home.
If I was here with kids, I’d be worried about the lack of services that will be available to them when they grow up. The Austerity Measures don’t really affect a middle aged working couple but as you get older you’ll need to access gov services more, and they’re disappearing. Hopefully they’ll return, but as it stands today, that’s the thing I’d be worried about.
I’d be happy to stay here for the rest of my life. Would I choose Britain over my marriage if it came down to it? No, I wouldn’t. Maybe Britain at it’s best, and if my marriage was a lot lot worse. But not this Britain over what I have with Mrs TB.
I think we have a couple of years here before she’ll want to return, maybe things will have changed, maybe they won’t. Britain is still brilliant and in my mind, Oz is still as craptacular as it ever was.
I’m just not sure any of that matters as much as I thought it once did.
I hope this was not too long, I’ve tried to be very honest.
Last edited by Tr1boy; Nov 26th 2010 at 10:18 am.
Nov 26th 2010, 11:00 am
#2
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 148
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Love the post. Thank you. Have followed your return over the last year or so. I would echo many of the sentiments.
Cannot comment on the work one's yet, although I am, surprisingly to me, having more positive reactions/ enquiries than I thought I would which is good
Knowing you have moved once makes moving again such a simpler and more attractive prospect.
Cannot comment on the work one's yet, although I am, surprisingly to me, having more positive reactions/ enquiries than I thought I would which is good
Knowing you have moved once makes moving again such a simpler and more attractive prospect.
Nov 26th 2010, 11:21 am
#3
The Brit is back
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: NS, Canada 2007-2013. Now....England!
Posts: 2,211
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Great post TR1boy, very honest account and not all doom and gloom 
Nov 26th 2010, 11:25 am
#4
Confirmed grumpy old man
Joined: May 2005
Location: Moved back to Riyadh KSA 2016
Posts: 1,298
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Good, informative and balanced opinions
Nov 26th 2010, 4:22 pm
#5
The Kwisatz Haderach
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: North Wales
Posts: 8,080
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Excellent post,
Nov 26th 2010, 5:10 pm
#6
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,477
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
great post triboy.. thanks for the posting..
Nov 26th 2010, 5:57 pm
#7
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 130
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Lovely post very honest and balanced. We have perched ourselves in a very picturesque part of Berkshire and I am loathe to leave it. I watch the squirrels running across the fence everyday and absolutely love the cold air ( always loved it when I got off the plane in Sydney or Melbourne and it was fresh) hated getting off the plane in Brisbane to that warm moist air.
OH doing well at work but overwhelmed with the impact of the move on all of us - although the kids have adjusted brilliantly eldest still in Oz until December - got interviews for med school in London. Middle at uni love love loving it. Youngest adapting well to secondary school grades and attitude has gone through the roof.
But we do miss our friends, our house and some aspect of Ozzie life. Just need to get through this first year I think to start to feel properly settled - our dog and furniture have yet to arrive so when we have them we can start to feel properly settled. Although its cold I know it doesn't last and spring and lighter evenings will soon be here. In Oz the sameness drove us nuts.
Good luck and thanks for keeping us informed.
OH doing well at work but overwhelmed with the impact of the move on all of us - although the kids have adjusted brilliantly eldest still in Oz until December - got interviews for med school in London. Middle at uni love love loving it. Youngest adapting well to secondary school grades and attitude has gone through the roof.
But we do miss our friends, our house and some aspect of Ozzie life. Just need to get through this first year I think to start to feel properly settled - our dog and furniture have yet to arrive so when we have them we can start to feel properly settled. Although its cold I know it doesn't last and spring and lighter evenings will soon be here. In Oz the sameness drove us nuts.
Good luck and thanks for keeping us informed.
Nov 26th 2010, 6:22 pm
#8
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Great post, I feel I've lost touch with the reality of life in Britain now so this kind of information is really valuable. I hope Mrs TB feels happier soon.
Nov 26th 2010, 9:58 pm
#9
Home Sweet Home
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 5,128
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Great post TriBoy, nice to hear you are settling down, maybe Mrs TB will adjust in time, it's early days yet.
I cannot believe you went back in February, how time flies!!
I am off myself in February 2011 to Cheshire, and will not be coming back again this time, 13 weeks from today.........eekkkkk.....
I cannot believe you went back in February, how time flies!!
I am off myself in February 2011 to Cheshire, and will not be coming back again this time, 13 weeks from today.........eekkkkk.....
Nov 26th 2010, 10:53 pm
#10
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 68
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Excellent post!! one of the best I have read on here lately..very balanced, honest view.
Nov 27th 2010, 2:24 am
#11
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Cochrane, Alberta
Posts: 7,861
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Great post - and good of you to take the time to make it
Nov 27th 2010, 2:42 am
#12
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Dorset England.
Posts: 676
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Thank you for this ,We have not been away that long (5 years ) but I do make the mistake of reading the Mail on line from time to time 
This has encouraged me further to return .
I hope your wife settles soon,I know (from experience) how it can be difficult when a partner is having troubles
My DH (American ) hated the UK to start with ,he needed to make his own friends and world ...
Now HE is the one who first suggested going home to England
This has encouraged me further to return .
I hope your wife settles soon,I know (from experience) how it can be difficult when a partner is having troubles
My DH (American ) hated the UK to start with ,he needed to make his own friends and world ...
Now HE is the one who first suggested going home to England
Nov 27th 2010, 8:32 am
#13
Grace and gratitude
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Somewhere else
Posts: 6,407
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Fab post TB - some good info for the wannabe returners.
P.S Note to self, stop discussing X-Factor in the office on a Monday morning -others may consider you dumb (especially as your 30+!)
P.P.S That Cher gets right on my nerves, my fave is Rebecca!
P.S Note to self, stop discussing X-Factor in the office on a Monday morning -others may consider you dumb (especially as your 30+!)
P.P.S That Cher gets right on my nerves, my fave is Rebecca!
Last edited by pommybird; Nov 27th 2010 at 8:35 am.
Nov 27th 2010, 8:41 pm
#14
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Canberra
Posts: 8,378
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Good to hear that things are going as well as can be - your wife may come to love it down the track, you never know!
Sheesh, X factor in the office on a Monday - at our place it is usually Master Chef at least although Australia's Got Talent (a debatable point of course) did hit the water cooler when it was on (and can anyone remember who ever wins the darned thing?)
Actually, I like Mary Boyle but cant understand the appeal of Wagner ... And what about Strictly? Whoever is still voting for Anne W?
Sheesh, X factor in the office on a Monday - at our place it is usually Master Chef at least although Australia's Got Talent (a debatable point of course) did hit the water cooler when it was on (and can anyone remember who ever wins the darned thing?)
Actually, I like Mary Boyle but cant understand the appeal of Wagner ... And what about Strictly? Whoever is still voting for Anne W?
Nov 28th 2010, 11:51 am
#15
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2007
Location: England
Posts: 4,213
Re: The state of Britain according to TriBoy
Put the kettle on and settle in.
OK I’ve been back a while now (since Feb) and thought I’d give a bit of an update for those that are interested:
Background for any ‘newbies’: Been away from the UK for 21yrs, mainly lived in Sydney for that time, but also 3 other countries on and off. (2 of which were non English speaking) and traveled extensively around Oz for work (mainly major cities). Very willing ‘returnee’ to the UK, have known for about 5yrs that’s what I wanted, spent 3mths here in 2006 and made 1 or 2 trips per year home in the last 12yrs. I am an Oz citizen so is Mrs TB both she’s not from Oz originally.
Jobs/economy: Pretty bad but I think getting a bit better and doesn’t seem so bad in the South East. My family is from the Sth west and that’s where we based ourselves upon arrival. I have 15yrs significant international level experience at what I do and 2-3 yrs ago could have picked up the phone and had someone fly me to SG for an interview and have a good role upon arrival. I couldn’t do that this time and ‘had’ to be on the ground in the UK. I’m fairly fussy with roles but even so I was still surprised it too me from end of Feb to mid May to get something I was happy with. It actually took my wife less time, but she had to go to Korea for a while but when she started looking it took about 4wks. Again she is very experienced (at multi country international accounting).
We’ve ended up in Surrey which is very nice, we have just moved to a quieter apartment and we live in a very nice little town about 10mins from Guildford. OK, here are my general observations, I hope they are helpful.
Economy: use the length of time it took me to get a job as a barometer of how things are here. They are not as dire as the press is making out, but it’s not rosy either. My impression is that it’s much worse in the north of the country. There are some good bargains to be had in the housing market but the gov has scrapped stamp duty on dwellings under £250k so a lot of people are offering £249k on stuff advertised at £275k and some people are getting them but most are not, it seems that sellers aren’t ‘that’ desperate, at least not where I live. I’d say the bigger bargains are to be had in the £350-400k bracket.
Work culture: It’s been a long time since I’ve worked long term in ‘corporate UK’. For sure people are way more professional here than their counterparts in Oz and operate on a higher level of understanding. Having said that the Great British humour that we know and love and is evident in most walks of life seems sadly lacking in my office and my wife’s going by what she tells me. It’s certainly not as much ‘fun’ working here, but it’s not rubbish either. I think this is mostly due to the fact that so many people are fearful of losing their jobs.
Speaking for both our offices there seems much less flexibility for parents to pick up kids etc (personally I think it’s a good thing as I got sick of having to do extra work in Oz just because we decided not to have kids.)
I’ve done lots of travel here as part of my job ( as I did in Oz) but expenses are much more tightly controlled and you have to think about your trip a lot more in terms of getting your money back or getting the corp card approved. In oz everything was based around ‘reasonable expenses’ etc, here there are hard and fast limits, and depending where you go, they’re pretty tight limits.
What hasn’t changed:
The culture: in general hasn’t changed. People are far friendlier than in Oz on a casual basis. What I mean is I have some very good friends in Oz but that’s only through triathlon and cycling. In the UK it’s much easier to strike up casual conversation, in the shops, pub or wherever really. People seem to take more interest in what you are actually saying to them rather than the lip service paid in Oz. I’ve seen very very little evidence of this ‘chav culture’ that is meant to exist and saw far more ant1-social behavior in the Lower Nth shore of Sydney.
Driving: Light years ahead of Oz in terms of courtesy and general driving standards.
The countryside: Still beautiful, the colours, the lanes, the trees, the walks, the sense of freedom that you can pretty much go anywhere.
The media: Still miserable, doom and gloom sells papers, Daily fail still spouting its racist crap.
The negativity of people: Still very evident, but I’ve questioned lots of people about this and usually get the answer, ‘well it’s what we do isn’t it!’
What has changed:
The demographic: lots of people from lots of places and lots more Far Eastern faces than before (still a drop in the ocean though). We live in the sth east so it’s probably more ‘evident’ here than anywhere outside of London, but the fact is that the area is still very much dominated by white English speaking people. I’ve seen some good and bad with the new arrivals but nothing dramatic.
Parking ability: people still drive very well here but seem to have lost the ability to park with any sense of consideration. It’s not out of control but more evident than it was and seems mostly caused by people driving in appropriately sized vehicles.
Young people are dumber: well not dumber, but they seem far shallower than I ever remember them. The talk on Mondays is always about X-Factor in my office amongst the under 30s (and quite a few over 30s!). I’m sure this is the same as in oz but I don’t remember it being this bad here and the amount of people that seem to have lost the ability for independent thought is quite depressing.
Litter: My area is fine, but I’ve seen some bad areas around the place for litter, especially what looks like people that have been driving along and just lobbed stuff out of the window (on my bike I tend to notice things on the side of the road more). Having said that, the amount of mindless vandalism seems non existent compared to Oz.
A general note about cost of living: Mostly cheaper here, especially health and dentistry, food and utilities. Telco and BB are laughingly cheap compared to Oz. Rents are comparable IME, but you wouldn’t want to be a renter here for as long as you could in Oz as you have to pay water and council tax. Swings and roundabouts really I get 30days personal holiday here compared to 20 in Oz, Mrs TB gets 25.
In summary: The old Britain is still there in abundance, but you have to work harder to find it amongst the general mood here at the moment. I’m very very happy here, but Mrs TB, not so much. There are definitely sacrifices that have to be made to come back here (as there are with any move) and for me they are 100% worth it, for her it’s harder as it’s not her home.
If I was here with kids, I’d be worried about the lack of services that will be available to them when they grow up. The Austerity Measures don’t really affect a middle aged working couple but as you get older you’ll need to access gov services more, and they’re disappearing. Hopefully they’ll return, but as it stands today, that’s the thing I’d be worried about.
I’d be happy to stay here for the rest of my life. Would I choose Britain over my marriage if it came down to it? No, I wouldn’t. Maybe Britain at it’s best, and if my marriage was a lot lot worse. But not this Britain over what I have with Mrs TB.
I think we have a couple of years here before she’ll want to return, maybe things will have changed, maybe they won’t. Britain is still brilliant and in my mind, Oz is still as craptacular as it ever was.
I’m just not sure any of that matters as much as I thought it once did.
I hope this was not too long, I’ve tried to be very honest.
OK I’ve been back a while now (since Feb) and thought I’d give a bit of an update for those that are interested:
Background for any ‘newbies’: Been away from the UK for 21yrs, mainly lived in Sydney for that time, but also 3 other countries on and off. (2 of which were non English speaking) and traveled extensively around Oz for work (mainly major cities). Very willing ‘returnee’ to the UK, have known for about 5yrs that’s what I wanted, spent 3mths here in 2006 and made 1 or 2 trips per year home in the last 12yrs. I am an Oz citizen so is Mrs TB both she’s not from Oz originally.
Jobs/economy: Pretty bad but I think getting a bit better and doesn’t seem so bad in the South East. My family is from the Sth west and that’s where we based ourselves upon arrival. I have 15yrs significant international level experience at what I do and 2-3 yrs ago could have picked up the phone and had someone fly me to SG for an interview and have a good role upon arrival. I couldn’t do that this time and ‘had’ to be on the ground in the UK. I’m fairly fussy with roles but even so I was still surprised it too me from end of Feb to mid May to get something I was happy with. It actually took my wife less time, but she had to go to Korea for a while but when she started looking it took about 4wks. Again she is very experienced (at multi country international accounting).
We’ve ended up in Surrey which is very nice, we have just moved to a quieter apartment and we live in a very nice little town about 10mins from Guildford. OK, here are my general observations, I hope they are helpful.
Economy: use the length of time it took me to get a job as a barometer of how things are here. They are not as dire as the press is making out, but it’s not rosy either. My impression is that it’s much worse in the north of the country. There are some good bargains to be had in the housing market but the gov has scrapped stamp duty on dwellings under £250k so a lot of people are offering £249k on stuff advertised at £275k and some people are getting them but most are not, it seems that sellers aren’t ‘that’ desperate, at least not where I live. I’d say the bigger bargains are to be had in the £350-400k bracket.
Work culture: It’s been a long time since I’ve worked long term in ‘corporate UK’. For sure people are way more professional here than their counterparts in Oz and operate on a higher level of understanding. Having said that the Great British humour that we know and love and is evident in most walks of life seems sadly lacking in my office and my wife’s going by what she tells me. It’s certainly not as much ‘fun’ working here, but it’s not rubbish either. I think this is mostly due to the fact that so many people are fearful of losing their jobs.
Speaking for both our offices there seems much less flexibility for parents to pick up kids etc (personally I think it’s a good thing as I got sick of having to do extra work in Oz just because we decided not to have kids.)
I’ve done lots of travel here as part of my job ( as I did in Oz) but expenses are much more tightly controlled and you have to think about your trip a lot more in terms of getting your money back or getting the corp card approved. In oz everything was based around ‘reasonable expenses’ etc, here there are hard and fast limits, and depending where you go, they’re pretty tight limits.
What hasn’t changed:
The culture: in general hasn’t changed. People are far friendlier than in Oz on a casual basis. What I mean is I have some very good friends in Oz but that’s only through triathlon and cycling. In the UK it’s much easier to strike up casual conversation, in the shops, pub or wherever really. People seem to take more interest in what you are actually saying to them rather than the lip service paid in Oz. I’ve seen very very little evidence of this ‘chav culture’ that is meant to exist and saw far more ant1-social behavior in the Lower Nth shore of Sydney.
Driving: Light years ahead of Oz in terms of courtesy and general driving standards.
The countryside: Still beautiful, the colours, the lanes, the trees, the walks, the sense of freedom that you can pretty much go anywhere.
The media: Still miserable, doom and gloom sells papers, Daily fail still spouting its racist crap.
The negativity of people: Still very evident, but I’ve questioned lots of people about this and usually get the answer, ‘well it’s what we do isn’t it!’
What has changed:
The demographic: lots of people from lots of places and lots more Far Eastern faces than before (still a drop in the ocean though). We live in the sth east so it’s probably more ‘evident’ here than anywhere outside of London, but the fact is that the area is still very much dominated by white English speaking people. I’ve seen some good and bad with the new arrivals but nothing dramatic.
Parking ability: people still drive very well here but seem to have lost the ability to park with any sense of consideration. It’s not out of control but more evident than it was and seems mostly caused by people driving in appropriately sized vehicles.
Young people are dumber: well not dumber, but they seem far shallower than I ever remember them. The talk on Mondays is always about X-Factor in my office amongst the under 30s (and quite a few over 30s!). I’m sure this is the same as in oz but I don’t remember it being this bad here and the amount of people that seem to have lost the ability for independent thought is quite depressing.
Litter: My area is fine, but I’ve seen some bad areas around the place for litter, especially what looks like people that have been driving along and just lobbed stuff out of the window (on my bike I tend to notice things on the side of the road more). Having said that, the amount of mindless vandalism seems non existent compared to Oz.
A general note about cost of living: Mostly cheaper here, especially health and dentistry, food and utilities. Telco and BB are laughingly cheap compared to Oz. Rents are comparable IME, but you wouldn’t want to be a renter here for as long as you could in Oz as you have to pay water and council tax. Swings and roundabouts really I get 30days personal holiday here compared to 20 in Oz, Mrs TB gets 25.
In summary: The old Britain is still there in abundance, but you have to work harder to find it amongst the general mood here at the moment. I’m very very happy here, but Mrs TB, not so much. There are definitely sacrifices that have to be made to come back here (as there are with any move) and for me they are 100% worth it, for her it’s harder as it’s not her home.
If I was here with kids, I’d be worried about the lack of services that will be available to them when they grow up. The Austerity Measures don’t really affect a middle aged working couple but as you get older you’ll need to access gov services more, and they’re disappearing. Hopefully they’ll return, but as it stands today, that’s the thing I’d be worried about.
I’d be happy to stay here for the rest of my life. Would I choose Britain over my marriage if it came down to it? No, I wouldn’t. Maybe Britain at it’s best, and if my marriage was a lot lot worse. But not this Britain over what I have with Mrs TB.
I think we have a couple of years here before she’ll want to return, maybe things will have changed, maybe they won’t. Britain is still brilliant and in my mind, Oz is still as craptacular as it ever was.
I’m just not sure any of that matters as much as I thought it once did.
I hope this was not too long, I’ve tried to be very honest.