Re: Riots in the UK
 

Pretty certain that ALL types of incapacitant sprays & substances are classed as offensive weapons in the UK. Quite rightly too, I may add.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

How is that going to help? Aren't they just going to steal more?

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Where is the precedent for punishing someone's family for what they do? The Bible?

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Yeah, more crime...a lot of folks are on benefits because there isn't anything else going...

The rioters are arseholes, but that's not to say that the root causes are all of their making.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

It's happened here before and it will happen again. Different impetus but something will kick it off and the mob will go bananas for a few days. There's nothing new under the sun.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Yeah I know that but the OP insinuated that riots in the UK would spark off riots over here. I wondered why she thought that.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

The real reason the riots kicked off...

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Despite being a left-winger, this guy nails it. Brilliant.

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.p...article/10970/

Re: Riots in the UK
 

That's too funny!:rofl:

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Excellent article:thumbup:

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Not gonna happen.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

You will never see that level of destruction here.


TV: "And we'll be right back with...

Rioter: *Runs out the door, down the street, throws a rock in the general direction of the local 7-11, flips off a police car he sees speeding down the street a block over, runs back home, panting, falls in his laz-e-boy just as...

TV: "Welcome back to America's got Talent!"

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Exactly. Just thought it was an odd statement to make.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Nobody riots when unarmed drug dealers get shot by the police here ... why would they riot when it happens overseas?

Re: Riots in the UK
 

:sneakyBrendan O'Neill may have been a left-winger once but he sure isn't now. He wants to blame the welfare state for the riots and a supposed break down in traditional social bonds. Completely unconvincing.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

I'm not racist but Stats don't lie. Blacks are involed in more crime than Whites, therefore they will will stopped and searched more. Same in the US.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

It's a fair enough hypothesis but he does little to back it up in that article. I thought it was very poorly argued.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Exactly.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

22:20 hours BST Wednesday 10/08/11

All quiet on the Western Front. Latest police reports from across England* indicate no incidents of civil disorder or criminal activity on anything like the scale of the past few nights whatsoever, anywhere in the UK. Hopefully the war is over, but meanwhile the courts in London are operating day and night 24/7 dealing with all the cases of arrest bought before them by the police. One such case involved a man of 30, caught looting from a damaged shop, and who turned out to be employed at a primary school in London - not sure yet whether or not he is a teacher. Hopefully not! :eek:

*Only England has been affected by all these troubles. Even down to attractive places like Gloucester, but it seems that there is a substantial immigrant/ethnic (mostly Asian but also Afro Caribbean) population there.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Why hopefully not?? any profession that allows its members to purchase Citroen Dyanes and jesus boots must be up for a bit of looting!:)

Sorry just looked at your age ... you might not remember the upside down prams(Citreons)

Re: Riots in the UK
 

OP has a history of popping here occasionally to post odd and seemingly ill-thought out statements and then not bothering to follow up when challenged. I would also highly doubt that he will respond to any questions about his newer post on this thread that seems to condone racial profiling.

Hold on - I'll give it a whirl...

Re: Riots in the UK
 

What in God's good name are you on about, man? :confused:

Re: Riots in the UK
 

OMG.... The riots have spread to Ireland!
Paddy smashed his computer screen up trying to nick a pair of trainers from eBay.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Interesting article, but - in Oakland, CA, the black community rioted in their own back yard recently over the issue of the cop who killed the black guy on the BART station. They trashed the very community they grew up and lived in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Po...of_Oscar_Grant

Maybe people riot where they are comfortable - where they know what to trash, and where to run.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

If you read the full quote, I was replying to the lady that wrote she feels sorry for Black people who get stopped and searched all the time in London.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

That was no lady.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

When people tweet from Libya, it's good enough for us to send in the military. When people tweet pictures of Basij thugs in Iran, we support them and decry attempts to shut them down.

When rioting breaks out in England, Cameron says services such as Twitter and Blackberry Messenger could be shut down "to avoid co-ordinated unrest".
Are you kidding me?

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Couldn't agree more!! The government needs to get a backbone and deal with the yobs appropriately - they have to get tough on them or it will only happen again! I just read a news report that stated a guy who assaulted a police officer (tried to gouge his eyes out, no less!) was jailed for just 20 weeks (I thought assaulting police was a major crime, obviously not!). Meanwhile, someone who stole £175 worth of clothes was jailed for 8 months. :huh:

Re: Riots in the UK
 

I agree. Very disturbing.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Ugh, it's the typical UK mindset. More legislation! Curtail freedoms!
From dangerous dogs to gun control, a litany of knee-jerk legislation.

It's the only way the politicians can show how outraged they are!
Morons.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Respectfully, the current legislation regarding issues such as dangerous dogs or gun controls tend to be widely supported by the UK population. You won't find many people here trying to argue that having guns or dangerous dogs are "rights" which must be protected, or that any legislation to the contrary is an erosion of "freedoms". Despite the recent trouble the UK still has a far more civic minded society than the USA, and measures like these are considered very carefully before being implemented. It's far from being a haphazard knee-jerk response by desperate politicians. They invariably carry the will of the people on such matters.

Furthermore the very first e-petition to attract 100,000 signatures on the British government's website, and therefore becoming eligible to be debated in parliament, is one calling for rioters to lose access to all state benefits. This is the very essence of democracy at work, akin to Switzerland and it's unique system of direct democracy. There may be many things wrong with the UK, but "more legislation" isn't one of them!!! :)

Re: Riots in the UK
 

In general, I think the British are way too flippant about giving up rights under the perception that in return they will get more security. It's funny how latter doesn't always follow from the former though.

UK more civic-minded than the US - how are you measuring that? I don't think your statement is obviously true at all.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

And if you read my post, I wasn't asking her what the dickens she was on about. :rolleyes:

Re: Riots in the UK
 

The statement about a civic-minded society is my own personal opinion, based on my belief that British people are far more inclined to seek solutions through their elected representatives in councils and government. Now I appreciate that this also happens in the USA but overall, as a bit of a generalisation, people in the US tend to be more individualistic and see government as part of the problem rather than the solution.

I'd be interested to hear you expand on your idea that the British are too flippant to give up rights for the perception of greater security, and where you feel this has had detrimental effects.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

I think you are incorrect to assume that a more "civic-minded" society is one that necessarily seeks its solutions through government. There are many ways that a society could be construed as being civic-minded including, for example, volunteerism and philanthropy, two areas where the US is ahead of the UK imo.

The lack of opposition to the modification of the common-law right to remain silent comes to mind - a principle enshrined since the early middle ages. The retention of DNA of anyone arrested as opposed to those convicted of an offence (although I think the European Court of Justics may have overturned that one). And the sprouting of security cameras in every major city and town, with increasing reliance made on them by the police instead of having actual police out in the street.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

As a resident of the UK from the very moment of birth right up until the present moment in time I have to take issue with you there.....I really don't think that the British people as a whole are all that civic minded. My step father is a City Councillor back home in Edinburgh and he is often moaning about apathy and lack of concern for local issues generallly among the residents of his particular ward - until issues arise which directly affect them..Aside from that the majority of residents couldn't give a tinker's cuss what happens - again, so long as it doesn't actually impinge on their lives.

Nationwide, taking in the UK as a whole, turnout at local elections is always very low....sometimes as low as 15 to 20% of the electorate, and even in General Elections the average turnout across the board is just around 60% to 65% and in each succeeding General Election the turnout is down a wee bit more. In European elections it is very much lower.

The UK has a massive problem with litter and in spite of there being a profusion of litter bins and waste disposal units at strategic positions all over public areas too many people either do not see them for want of looking, or see them but think they are something other than litter bins, such as convenient places on which to perch themselves while they scoff their takeaways or fish and chips and subsequently decorate the entire surrounds with what remains once the nosh has been consumed....the poly containers and paper wrappings and empty cans of Stella or bottles of Sprite or even voddy. Hardly civic minded - it's all very much related to the attitude displayed by all the scumbags causing all the mayhem in many of England's* urban and metro areas.

*Specifically England. Scotland has not really been affected, and in Wales only a few pissheads/copycat scumbags caused minor problems, in spite of the fact that this city his home to large numbers of immigrants and ethnic people. It's veen very much an English "party cum rampage" on those three nights...and days.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

The chickens have now come home to roost good and proper on the streets of urban Britannia......it is now harvest time in Britain.....the seeds sown by Governments (predominantly that from 1997 to 2010 and all of its insane policies and the limitless supply of welfare benefits to the feral and the feckless and the over fecund of both genders plus the craziness of political correctness and the sharp decline of social values, family values, educational standards, basic respect and codes of behaviour) have now all come to fruition in all their savage glory........and the ******* BB(B)C - British (Biased) Broadcasting Corporation - refuses to acknowledge that the present Government is now left to pick up the pieces and to heal the wounds of a chronically sick and expanding section of society in this country.....according to many journalists and current affairs presenters at the bloody Beeb it's all the new Government's fault! :curse:

Re: Riots in the UK
 

I agree, previous governments have been way too soft when it comes to dealing with the yobs and they've basically encouraged their behaviour, making excuses for them instead of sorting the problems out. A big part of the reason these idiots went on this rampage seems to be largely because they could - the yobs have been getting away with things for so long that they think they can do whatever they please, and of course the world owes them something (ha!). Unfortunately it seems they were pretty much right, because they were able to continue with their crap for far too long.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

Well I'm not sure about figures for either, but those are very good and valid points. You should however note the marked increase of the UK voluntary sector (aka The "Big Society"), as well as the huge amount of charitable donations made in the UK every year.

Modifying the right to remain silent can be seen as a necessary evolution, rather than something revolutionary. It was widely believed that criminals were abusing the right to remain silent both when being questioned by police, and at their subsequent trials. Just because something has been in place "since the early middle ages" does not mean that it remains relevant today. In fact, it is the sign of a mature and democratic society that these things are reviewed and amended as necessary. Contrast that with the USA and it's reliance on a 200-odd year old written "constitution" which, it could be argued, is now outdated and no longer serves the best interests of "the people".

Retention of arrestees DNA by the police was challenged successfully in the ECHR. I think this shows that British people aren't at all flippant about surrending freedoms. They will fight for principles that are deemed to be unfair. In this regard, also note the widespread opposition to ID cards (coupled with a pervasive national database) and the embarrassing backtrack by the last Labour administration.

Security cameras are regulated by law, and they've played their part in the reduction of crime, as well as the speedier identification and apprehension of offenders. In fact, those very same CCTV systems are proving invaluable right now, as the police forces of England struggle to arrest the hundreds of people responsible for the large scale outbreaks of violence we've seen recently. The only people who should be worried about CCTV are wrongdoers.

Re: Riots in the UK
 

A thought provoking piece Lothianlad. But apart from telling us what you think is wrong with Britain, oops sorry I mean ENGLAND, how does all of that compare to my earlier point that Britain is a less individualistic society than the USA?