Perception vs Reality
Jul 23rd 2013 | 10:58 pm
#76
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,910
From: The REAL Utopia.
Re: Perception vs Reality
[QUOTE=Zen10;10816530]
I know that anyone earning £50k or more gets no childcare help in Britain (and maybe a lot less, I don't know the cut-off), and that the going rate for childcare costs £750 per month. I also know that people earning £100k get $7500 (currently £4500) childcare per child from the Australian Government, which probably works out to 50% of overall annual costs. Those are the cold, hard, demonstrable facts of policy. The unavoidable conclusion, based on the factual policy of the two states' childcare assistance policy, is that one receives substantially more help from the Australian Government than from the British Government. This means that my wife's sisters cannot afford to have more children in Britain, but could if they lived in Australia. The issue is of concern to the British Government, and it tried to provide more assistance in a recent budget, but because the country is bankrupt it was a small gesture.
Again, the £750 a month figure is for the one person you know, it is not that for everyone and probably not for most people plus there are rebates you can claim. Noone is arguing that Australian child care might be cheaper, it quite probably is but again it that you use a single example as an across the board fact. From what I can see the average cost of childcare in £90 something a week so much less than the £750 a month you mention and that is before the various rebates you can get.This is what we are saying about using an individual example as a fact that applies to everyone because it clearly doesnt.
It will be interesting to see how long the Australian Government can keep it up.
I know that anyone earning £50k or more gets no childcare help in Britain (and maybe a lot less, I don't know the cut-off), and that the going rate for childcare costs £750 per month. I also know that people earning £100k get $7500 (currently £4500) childcare per child from the Australian Government, which probably works out to 50% of overall annual costs. Those are the cold, hard, demonstrable facts of policy. The unavoidable conclusion, based on the factual policy of the two states' childcare assistance policy, is that one receives substantially more help from the Australian Government than from the British Government. This means that my wife's sisters cannot afford to have more children in Britain, but could if they lived in Australia. The issue is of concern to the British Government, and it tried to provide more assistance in a recent budget, but because the country is bankrupt it was a small gesture.
It will be interesting to see how long the Australian Government can keep it up.
Jul 23rd 2013 | 11:03 pm
#77
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,300
Re: Perception vs Reality
[QUOTE=chris955;10816574]
Again, the £750 a month figure is for the one person you know, it is not that for everyone and probably not for most people plus there are rebates you can claim. Noone is arguing that Australian child care might be cheaper, it quite probably is but again it that you use a single example as an across the board fact. From what I can see the average cost of childcare in £90 something a week so much less than the £750 a month you mention and that is before the various rebates you can get.This is what we are saying about using an individual example as a fact that applies to everyone because it clearly doesnt.
It will be interesting to see how long the Australian Government can keep it up.
What rebates? The £750 figure is for standard FT childcare at a national childcare centre. It will be the same for hundreds of thousands of others. I'm not arguing Australian childcare is cheaper (it might be), I'm pointing out that you get more assistance from the government here.
"The typical cost of a full-time day nursery place is £177 a week for a child younger than two. In some areas, such as inner London, it may cost a lot more than that." This is £708 per month, which is almost bang on what my SIL pays.
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/a552732/...#ixzz2ZxZESzKg
She and her husband earn 50k and are entitles to no rebates, so I would be interested to know what they are and who gets them.
Again, the £750 a month figure is for the one person you know, it is not that for everyone and probably not for most people plus there are rebates you can claim. Noone is arguing that Australian child care might be cheaper, it quite probably is but again it that you use a single example as an across the board fact. From what I can see the average cost of childcare in £90 something a week so much less than the £750 a month you mention and that is before the various rebates you can get.This is what we are saying about using an individual example as a fact that applies to everyone because it clearly doesnt.
It will be interesting to see how long the Australian Government can keep it up.
"The typical cost of a full-time day nursery place is £177 a week for a child younger than two. In some areas, such as inner London, it may cost a lot more than that." This is £708 per month, which is almost bang on what my SIL pays.
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/a552732/...#ixzz2ZxZESzKg
She and her husband earn 50k and are entitles to no rebates, so I would be interested to know what they are and who gets them.
Jul 23rd 2013 | 11:09 pm
#78
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,910
From: The REAL Utopia.
Re: Perception vs Reality
Sorry I dont know what happened to that quote to be honest. I agree it seems to be like clutching at straws and to be honest I shouldnt get involved but I cant let this stuff slide. This nonsense about Australia being a 'better place to live' just gets my back up. It makes no difference if this is cheaper or whatever, that isnt why we came here. I just dont see the need for so much overanalysing. If it is what you want then do it, if not dont.
I'm confused?
Who actually wrote what?
...............anyway-have we now got to the stage of some kind of UK 'One Child Policy' to prove the UK is the pits?
Gawd awmitey! Is this ever going to stop?
Last week that bozo on am. TV put up some sort of graph to show how Australia is better than 'the Brits' at this and that sport.
Not better than France/Sweden/Oomegoolieland-nah! 'Better than the Brits'.
And again today-this 'arvo' I think,-same: 'better than the Brits'.
I hope dental care is 'free'; I have ground my teeth down to bloody stumps!
I'm confused?
Who actually wrote what?...............anyway-have we now got to the stage of some kind of UK 'One Child Policy' to prove the UK is the pits?
Gawd awmitey! Is this ever going to stop?
Last week that bozo on am. TV put up some sort of graph to show how Australia is better than 'the Brits' at this and that sport.
Not better than France/Sweden/Oomegoolieland-nah! 'Better than the Brits'.
And again today-this 'arvo' I think,-same: 'better than the Brits'.
I hope dental care is 'free'; I have ground my teeth down to bloody stumps!
Jul 23rd 2013 | 11:14 pm
#79
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,300
Re: Perception vs Reality
Sorry I dont know what happened to that quote to be honest. I agree it seems to be like clutching at straws and to be honest I shouldnt get involved but I cant let this stuff slide. This nonsense about Australia being a 'better place to live' just gets my back up. It makes no difference if this is cheaper or whatever, that isnt why we came here. I just dont see the need for so much overanalysing. If it is what you want then do it, if not dont.
The problem is that it really DOES matter to hundreds of thousands of people. Ordinary workers are struggling to meet childcare payments. 66% of British parents can't afford more kids and this is 2011. Now it is even worse. It's a serious issue, and one that Australia has got right and Britain has got wrong. There's no wriggling out of this one.
http://www.moneywise.co.uk/cut-your-...ford-more-kids
"According to Aviva, parents will spend, on average, more than £1,000 a month on each of their children."
Jul 23rd 2013 | 11:22 pm
#80
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,910
From: The REAL Utopia.
Re: Perception vs Reality
If you are a low wage earner you can claim up to 70% of childcare costs up to £175 a week for a single child and up to £300 for 2 or more. I have no doubt many pay £750 a week just like many people earn 100k a year. You seem to have a particular bee in your bonnet about this but seriously its all swings and roundabouts. If it is that important then perhaps you are better off where you are, I mean that in a nice way.
What rebates? The £750 figure is for standard FT childcare at a national childcare centre. It will be the same for hundreds of thousands of others. I'm not arguing Australian childcare is cheaper (it might be), I'm pointing out that you get more assistance from the government here.
"The typical cost of a full-time day nursery place is £177 a week for a child younger than two. In some areas, such as inner London, it may cost a lot more than that." This is £708 per month, which is almost bang on what my SIL pays.
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/a552732/...#ixzz2ZxZESzKg
She and her husband earn 50k and are entitles to no rebates, so I would be interested to know what they are and who gets them.
What rebates? The £750 figure is for standard FT childcare at a national childcare centre. It will be the same for hundreds of thousands of others. I'm not arguing Australian childcare is cheaper (it might be), I'm pointing out that you get more assistance from the government here.
"The typical cost of a full-time day nursery place is £177 a week for a child younger than two. In some areas, such as inner London, it may cost a lot more than that." This is £708 per month, which is almost bang on what my SIL pays.
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/a552732/...#ixzz2ZxZESzKg
She and her husband earn 50k and are entitles to no rebates, so I would be interested to know what they are and who gets them.
Jul 23rd 2013 | 11:22 pm
#81
Thread Starter
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,195
From: Beautiful Dorset, UK
Re: Perception vs Reality
[QUOTE=Zen10;10816577]
Working tax credits are available for assistance with childcare costs - although with a household income of £50,000 your SIL is over the income limit ... details here.. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/pe...-childcare.htm
In addition, many employers offer childcare vouchers which mean that effectively child care costs can be paid via pre tax income, which reduces the cost a bit.
As children get older - 3 or 4 (I forget the details as they do change for time to time - google is your friend), they get some free nursery time which will also reduce the cost.
In addition, many employers offer childcare vouchers which mean that effectively child care costs can be paid via pre tax income, which reduces the cost a bit.
As children get older - 3 or 4 (I forget the details as they do change for time to time - google is your friend), they get some free nursery time which will also reduce the cost.
Jul 23rd 2013 | 11:28 pm
#82
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,300
Re: Perception vs Reality
If you are a low wage earner you can claim up to 70% of childcare costs up to £175 a week for a single child and up to £300 for 2 or more. I have no doubt many pay £750 a week just like many people earn 100k a year. You seem to have a particular bee in your bonnet about this but seriously its all swings and roundabouts. If it is that important then perhaps you are better off where you are, I mean that in a nice way.
When one is considering where to live, one must study the facts, especially if one has children. Ignoring the childcare issue - a massive issue - because it doesn't fit into the rose-tint version of life in the UK would be rather foolhardy, don't you think? Your last comment brings us right back to where I started, which is that yes, as you say, we would be better off financially in Australia, but this is only half the story.
Jul 23rd 2013 | 11:30 pm
#83
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,910
From: The REAL Utopia.
Re: Perception vs Reality
This is disappointing, really. You engage with someone about how, in this case, childcare is about only individuals and how a universal statement cannot be made, but when it is demonstrated with facts that the childcare is significantly superior in Australia, you simply say "it doesn't matter", stick your fingers in your ears and walk away.
The problem is that it really DOES matter to hundreds of thousands of people. Ordinary workers are struggling to meet childcare payments. 66% of British parents can't afford more kids and this is 2011. Now it is even worse. It's a serious issue, and one that Australia has got right and Britain has got wrong. There's no wriggling out of this one.
http://www.moneywise.co.uk/cut-your-...ford-more-kids
"According to Aviva, parents will spend, on average, more than £1,000 a month on each of their children."
The problem is that it really DOES matter to hundreds of thousands of people. Ordinary workers are struggling to meet childcare payments. 66% of British parents can't afford more kids and this is 2011. Now it is even worse. It's a serious issue, and one that Australia has got right and Britain has got wrong. There's no wriggling out of this one.
http://www.moneywise.co.uk/cut-your-...ford-more-kids
"According to Aviva, parents will spend, on average, more than £1,000 a month on each of their children."
http://childcareqld.org.au/2009/12/8...-to-childcare/
Jul 23rd 2013 | 11:31 pm
#84
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,910
From: The REAL Utopia.
Re: Perception vs Reality
Working tax credits are available for assistance with childcare costs - although with a household income of £50,000 your SIL is over the income limit ... details here.. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/pe...-childcare.htm
In addition, many employers offer childcare vouchers which mean that effectively child care costs can be paid via pre tax income, which reduces the cost a bit.
As children get older - 3 or 4 (I forget the details as they do change for time to time - google is your friend), they get some free nursery time which will also reduce the cost.
Jul 23rd 2013 | 11:33 pm
#85
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,910
From: The REAL Utopia.
Re: Perception vs Reality
No bees, no bonnets. I'm making the point that childcare assistance is more generous in Australia, and it has been disputed. Therefore I have demonstrated the case as fact with evidence.
When one is considering where to live, one must study the facts, especially if one has children. Ignoring the childcare issue - a massive issue - because it doesn't fit into the rose-tint version of life in the UK would be rather foolhardy, don't you think? Your last comment brings us right back to where I started, which is that yes, as you say, we would be better off financially in Australia, but this is only half the story.
When one is considering where to live, one must study the facts, especially if one has children. Ignoring the childcare issue - a massive issue - because it doesn't fit into the rose-tint version of life in the UK would be rather foolhardy, don't you think? Your last comment brings us right back to where I started, which is that yes, as you say, we would be better off financially in Australia, but this is only half the story.
Jul 23rd 2013 | 11:37 pm
#86
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Posts: 3,300
Re: Perception vs Reality
I'm not anti-Britain. If I were I would hardly be looking into ways to return there. If the conditions are right, I think we could be happier there than here, but the problem is that attaining those conditions could be very hard for us. With a young family requiring childcare, this is a big issue for us. We could go from paying £250 a month to £750 a month - per child.
Jul 24th 2013 | 12:02 am
#87
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 862
Re: Perception vs Reality
I'm not anti-Britain. If I were I would hardly be looking into ways to return there. If the conditions are right, I think we could be happier there than here, but the problem is that attaining those conditions could be very hard for us. With a young family requiring childcare, this is a big issue for us. We could go from paying £250 a month to £750 a month - per child.
The childcare thing is just the latest issue for you to fasten onto!
For crying out loud Zen, just allow people to take their own decisions without going in to the technicalities of why the UK is the lesser place to be.
For once and for all-it probably is for you-stop talking down to people-it really is getting damned irritating!
Jul 24th 2013 | 12:07 am
#88
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,910
From: The REAL Utopia.
Re: Perception vs Reality
Of course you are!! I repeat: you write eloquent posts-I mean that, but you seem hell bent on justifying your reasons for remaining in Australia, and your MO for doing so, is increasingly transparent.
The childcare thing is just the latest issue for you to fasten onto!
For crying out loud Zen, just allow people to take their own decisions without going in to the technicalities of why the UK is the lesser place to be.
For once and for all-it probably is for you-stop talking down to people-it really is getting damned irritating!
The childcare thing is just the latest issue for you to fasten onto!
For crying out loud Zen, just allow people to take their own decisions without going in to the technicalities of why the UK is the lesser place to be.
For once and for all-it probably is for you-stop talking down to people-it really is getting damned irritating!
Jul 24th 2013 | 10:21 am
#89
Banned
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,300
Re: Perception vs Reality
Of course you are!! I repeat: you write eloquent posts-I mean that, but you seem hell bent on justifying your reasons for remaining in Australia, and your MO for doing so, is increasingly transparent.
The childcare thing is just the latest issue for you to fasten onto!
For crying out loud Zen, just allow people to take their own decisions without going in to the technicalities of why the UK is the lesser place to be.
For once and for all-it probably is for you-stop talking down to people-it really is getting damned irritating!
The childcare thing is just the latest issue for you to fasten onto!
For crying out loud Zen, just allow people to take their own decisions without going in to the technicalities of why the UK is the lesser place to be.
For once and for all-it probably is for you-stop talking down to people-it really is getting damned irritating!
Jul 24th 2013 | 10:23 am
#90
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,300
Re: Perception vs Reality
As above Chris. I enjoy your posts and I sincerely pleased you're happy where you are, but you only wrote about one side of Britain. I need to know both sides if I am to make an informed decision. I cannot approach this subject by writing only good things about Britain, and only bad things about Australia. I have to be brutal in my objectivity. I found very little to recommend Britain to my family, other than: family being there, proximity to Europe, lower interest rates and maybe a few other things.
