woodbine66

Yes, and you epitomise the rude ignorant people that live here.

If you're so clever, tell me which part of my post is untrue.

britcanuck6

Not only me, my uneducated friend lol.....you say that you've lived in England for 40 years - did you ever leave England to visit other countries?? All of your statements are mostly applicable to other countries too.
As for cold, damp, 300,000 apartment prices??? Where the hell are you living lol

Get a life, get out & travel the world and you'll see!!!

Good luck!!

chris955

I think you spell it T..R..O..L..L

sallysimmons

I don't know - I find it really sad. To live life so unhappily must be a terrible burden. To look at everything glass almost empty? I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

I think woodbine and others like him/her feel that by sharing all their negatives, they'll make the rest of us rethink our plans. But because we've had tons more experiences, and know the realities in other parts of the world, it doesn't have that effect. Instead it's more like 'uh-ho ... here comes the black cloud!' This is why the Aussies call us "whinging poms." Boy do they have a point.

Celticprince_86

And I think it's rather telling that Woodbine has not yet answered my question.
It's all well and good to criticize and complain -and easier than actually doing something.

People who complain about the government,taxes,immigrants and so on and so forth should get up off their Kybers and start doing something to help!
If all us Brits actully put our minds to it,we could make Britain Great again!

chris955

Yeah I guess so, people like him will be miserable anywhere really. You can't escape those things he complains about, you just get a different variation of the same crap wherever you are.
As you say those of us who have travelled and indeed actually lived somewhere else know the facts.

Englishman43

I feel very bad for you because you seem to have the idea that the above is exclusive to the U.K ?

Why not move to the great US then ? If I get in to your mindset and follow your line of though I can summize it as follows:

It's infested with immigrants and foreign criminals, ridiculously expensive (US$ 500,000 for a small 2 bed semi in my part of the country anyone?), cold or hot ( depending on where you are ), damp, unbearably humid or bone dry (depending on where you are ), crime-ridden, roads gridlocked, abysmal education, NO health service so you'll be paying $200 - $1000 + a month yourself depending on age etc, high taxes, low wages, lots of low-skilled jobs that the Mexicans take, over crowding, expensive bad restaurants, corrupt politicians, etc, etc


But we do have cheap gas and Starbucks so that's alright then


Why not appreciate the good in your life instead of focussing on the bad ?

Pistolpete2

Help is not really what is called for since it was political dogma (mostly recent) of one sort or another that got the UK into its current messes of one sort or another.

Anyway, like how exactly? Surely not through the democratic process which is now pretty much dead it seems. We the people cannot set the agenda and even if we vote for what we think the agenda should be based upon a publicised manifesto it still then gets turned on its head for political expediency.

Part of the reason that the country is in such a mess is because of the sheer multitude of takers and non-contributors. How would one turn them around to the extent that they are actually able-bodied and could be productive.

The last person that put forward your idea in earnest was Margaret Thatcher and I think that it's a good one in theory but in practice, I just don't see it. This present idea of the Big Society is simply not sincere, particularly when one sees where it came from.

Next time you're in a supermarket and find some rude obnoxious kid talking to their parent like they are trailer-trash and you try to intervene for the betterment of parent and society, prepare yourself for the neck whiplash as you witness the obscene utterances of both parent and child telling you to effing mind your own business.

bandrui

I find it really disconcerting and not a little hypocritical when discussions descend into personal mud-slinging especially by those who purport to maintain a positive attitude.

The only thing to be gained from this is alienation. All posters are entitled to their opinion and perhaps something can be gained from debating the facts, but not by negative personal remarks.

What is happening in another country is irrelevant as a response. It would be much more enlightening to take a look at the "allegations" and see if this is pertiment to one area, or multiple, specifically where this is happening, is it a perception or true?, etc.

Nobody has taken Woodbine up on the challenge to refute any of the "facts".

Can we please respect each others' opinions and keep personal slights off the forum?

Englishman43

While, of course, I agree personal insults etc are uncalled for I disagree when you say "What is happening in another country is irrelevant as a response" , if one takes ones mindset good, bad or indifferent wherever one goes (as one does) then that is what one will find there , the good , the bad or the "whatever" as it were.

I think trying to help Woodbine see this could help him see that the world as a whole is imperfect, that a lot of what he complains about in Britain is found all over the globe and that perhaps the U.K isn't as bad as it may seem if a shift in thinking / outlook could be achieved.

bandrui

Though I see what you are saying, I know from personal experience that I can have a different reaction to different countries, though all have their good and bad points.

I am interested in hearing both sides of the question asked in this thread and don't really see it as my prerogative or mission to change anyone's attitude.

I think we are all interested in making an informed decision about a move to the UK and would be foolish to not consider all angles. By embracing the Pollyanna principle we could live anywhere on the planet, but I don't think that is the goal of most here.

Though an intuitive optimist at heart, I would really like to see all sides of the argument explored.

sallysimmons

Regarding the 'facts':

The NHS doesn't have long waiting periods for treatment. In fact waiting periods are down significantly thanks to the last government. Qhat will happen once David Cameron's reforms kick in is anyone's guess.

Crime is down in the UK - 6% overall last year, with large drops in violent crime and burglaries.

Restaurants in the UK are far from awful - in fact they're better than they've ever been.

Immigrants are a net plus to any country, and they have made Britain a far more interesting and cosmopolitan place than it has ever been.

The weather is damp, but it is not cold. England has a generally mild climate and a week here and there of ice and snow do not a cold climate make.

Squirrel

Well for my part I've lived in the UK for 46 years and I like it a lot (I live in London). My DH is American and he likes lots about the UK too, like public transport and being able to get to a shop right next door as we do not drive.
He appreciates the NHS esp when he was in so much pain he made me call an ambulance and he didn't have to think about how to afford it, being correctly taxed and not having to sort it out at the end of the year, much better vacation allowance, shorter working hours, better job protection, lots of public parks (we have one a couple of minutes away), pet insurance and all vets do 24 hour emergency or are a member of a group that cover emergencies, more relaxed attitude to drinking eg all supermarkets sell it and you don't have to go to a liquor store and you don't have to show ID at our age, proximity to Europe and North Africa for holidays which you can get cheap via budget airlines (in 10 years here he's been to Paris, Nice, Monaco, Bolougne, San Remo, Venice, Brussels, Antwerp, Amsterdam, Gothenburg, Prague, Marrakech, Barcelona, Palma de Mallorca, Edinburgh, Cork, Dublin (and going to Split in September), as well as cities in the US he'd not been to before Chicago and Miami), historic buildings like castles and cathedrals, English breakfast, 'real ale,' British comedies from yesteryear that I introduced him to (Allo Allo, It Ain't Half Hot Mum, Mind Your Language, Father Ted, Black Adder, Man About the House etc) and other old shows that he never saw in the US like Skippy (OK that's Australian), free handsets (mobile phones), good catering for veggies eg foods marked on menues with a V symbol, strong painkillers available at the chemist without having to try and get an appointment at the doctor, no giant carpenter ants, modern banking (neither of us can believe that his dad sits there and writes a load of cheques every month)......

There are things he doesn't like of course, like having to share the bus with school kids (no school buses), no baseball, no summer lol

Life is what you make it!

chris955

Exactly, to me the comments made by Woodbine were too ridiculous and most people can see the true facts. Having an opinion is one thing but to make sweeping generalisations is totally different.

bandrui

Ok. In response to the last 2 quotes, I would say that there are points which I can certainly agree with, those I disagree with and those that are rather sweeping generalisations:

I too relish the thought of being able to take public transportation and think the UK is high on, if not top of, the list of countries providing good access.

I also look forward to the proximity of Europe and many other countries. This is a big plus in my opinion.

Concerning the NHS, I think wait times depend on the nature of the ailment, who is waiting to be seen (GP or specialist) and the area of the country. Don't misunderstand me; the NHS is a marvellous system and Brits are very fortunate to have access to it, but as far as I have experienced it is the same here in Canada. I talk to my Aunt in the UK regularly and she has had eye problems for many years. She has often told me of how long she has to wait, months sometimes, to see the eye specialist. I injured my eye recently on a bamboo stake , spent hours in emergency and was shipped off with a free ferry pass to the eye specialist in Duncan the next day, all at zero cost to me.

I have experienced good and bad restaurants in any country that I have ever lived in or visited including the UK. Again, this likely varies from area to area.

I won't speak to working conditions as I am self-employed but as such I would have to file annually in the UK.

Canada has masses of parks and about 10% of the land and 1% of marine areas are protected compared to 6.3% in the UK.

As far as immigrants are concerned we have had this conversation before. Yes, good for cosmopolitan mix, etc. but within realistic caps.

And as for crime, I believe that violent crime stats are down everywhere but this article popped up when I was researching stats:

http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2007/01...ime-in-us.html

All in all our decision to move back is a very personal one. The experience is different for each of us. Some people actually do integrate right away and never experience difficulties, others require a longer time to settle in and then there are those who never will. There is no magic formula that is right for all.

Let's speak from our own experiences, elucidate the areas we are talking about and steer clear of broad generalisations in deference to all.