cricket1again

But you did choose your employment and because you CHOSE to become a civil servant working for the government, you have now found that being a middle class employee is all about working, paying bills and being taxed before you have anything left over to spend on yourself. That is a choice YOU made. It's not a problem caused by the UK, it's a problem caused by your own CHOICE.

By my own choice, I own a company so I get paid first, the government gets paid last. That's my own choice plus I learned about money and how to keep it from a young age. I wish someone would teach Gordon Brown something about fiscal policy but unfortunately politicians know nothing about finances. Why should they? That's not what they were elected for. So it's upto to us, the individual to take responsibility for our own finances instead of blaming the government or the country.

I'm not criticising you or finding fault with your own perspective, I'm just saying that the problems you have encountered are because of the choices you have made, not because of the country you live in or the government.

Dan725

Oh yes, definitely makes sense and I understand that, but I just used the TV example as one of a lot of things that makes you just always slightly out of place as an expat, no matter how well you adjust; fact is, you've had a different upbringing.

I'm out of touch with all the new UK shows too; no doubt in a lot more years it'll be even more so, but at the same time, you can't make up a past life and childhood in your expat country.

jonfrank123

All good, but I think you need to take your own advice also. Don't burn your UK bridges. Remember many people on the "moving back to the UK" forum thought the same thing as you, and are now coming back. They can't all be wrong can they?

Canada has many of the same problems that the UK does. While it's true that there are 60 million in the UK, and that it's far smaller than Canada. Many of the vast empty areas of Canada are uninhabited for a reason, ie that no one would want to live there. The big cities are just as crowded and Traffic choked as the UK.

As for Green grass, that is something you won't see in Canada , for about 6 months of the year anyway, as its totally snowed over. Last year in Montreal we had close to 16 feet of snow. It was nice at Christmas but by the beginning of April it was wearing a bit thin.

BristolUK

You're making the mistake that many people make and that is assuming that everyone has a whole bunch of choices. You're also ignoring that some things just fall into place.

It's like when I commented on the unfairness of UK pensions being frozen in Canada but increasing as usual if one lived in the USA. Someone suggested I should have chosen to marry an American instead of a Canadian as if I had some influence over 'chance' of that kind.

For my part, my mum worked in the Civil Service and got me an interview for a temporary job at her office as soon as my exams were done. I was 16. I made no career choice as such, it was just a job. My exam results weren't going to get me anything better and I wasn't the least academically minded.

I stuck at it and grew to like it, but I still knew I was undervalued.

I know nothing of your circumstances but I do know that we're not all blessed with the good fortune or knowhow to "choose to own" our own company.

Now....at no point did I describe my life in the UK as a problem. I had been very contented there. What I did say was that those relatively modest assets I had in the UK achieved a far better standard of living in Canada and that by the very nature of Canada's immigration requirements being geared up to highly skilled/highly qualified, well paid professionals, many - if not most people - looking to move to Canada would likely be in a far better financial position to make an even better life there than I was.

As a footnote, I found it easy to choose to take an early retirement (thus getting a greatly reduced pension) and up sticks to another country because I was originally planning to do exactly that by selling my house and moving to Spain. Not because I wasn't happy in the UK but because I could have lived reasonably comfortably in Spain while not having to work.

The key to both situations is, of course, the price of homes in the UK. I was lucky in that I bought a house before property prices went through the roof.

There are people whose equity (or savings), even allowing for recent falls in values, would go much much further in other countries and, of course, different parts of the UK, although the employment opportunities may not be there. There are also people with no chance of getting a foot on the UK property ladder who could do so in some other countries.

They just need to choose to marry the appropriate national so as to get there.

Trying to keep it friendly and humourous as you did.

cricket1again

This was your original post in which you said the country was beyond repair and that you were desperate to get your wife and children out. My comments were merely to point out that we all have choices and options. I chose not to work for the government, you did and it didn't make you happy. I was very happy running my own business and am going back to the UK to continue with this very soon.
You are on the MBTTUK board expressing negative opinions about what you think is wrong with the UK. I have simply pointed out that I do not agree it's as bad as you make it sound going by my own experience.

I have not made 'the mistake' of suggesting that people can change jobs or start companies easily or that they have a whole bunch of options. It's just my opinion.
However, they are free to choose differently just like you have done and they can create options.

Are you still in the UK trying to get to Canada or are you in Canada now?

BristolUK

Forgive me for picking up on this as it looks like some comments are a response to my post as well as Diggler's.
I'm not trying to pick a fight but while you haven't specifically said changing jobs and starting a company is easy, your comments sort of suggested one could simply choose and it would be so..
To change one's job one needs to be qualified and/or experienced for the better job. There needs to be a vacancy. There needs to be a vacancy at the right time too; who is going to leave employment with safety, seniority and a manageable wage and move to new employment, especially in a recession, when they'll be last in, first out, if something goes wrong?

One needs to be successful in getting that better job too; there are always other applicants. It's not only about your own choice, someone else has to choose you. Not being selected need not be a reflection on you, but a reflection on the quality of others. Or even who you know.

Or even being randomly rejected without your application being looked at; some personnel departments simply discard every 2nd or 3rd application, for example.

To decide to own one's own company, one needs the money to start. One's expertise, knowhow etc may make that a formality. But someone else may have ideas as good or better. Unfortunately they may not get the bank loan needed to get things going. Or perhaps they don't have the support of their family in deciding to turn their back on the 'safety' of regular employment and seek self employment.

There's a whole host of reasons why merely making a choice is not enough.

It's oversimplifying to put everything down to someone's choice.

cricket1again

We have different beliefs. It sounds like you believe in restrictions while I believe in choices. You're a police oficer used to working within the confines of local government and beaurocracy. You see yourself as stuck, therefore you are. I'm a designer so in my mind anything is possible and for me, it has been.
I admit my way of thinking challenges the norm. I'm not saying it's right for everyone but it has been right for me.

Incidentally, I come from a background of extreme poverty, broken family life, brutal, drunken father and I was bullied throughout school.
I have never taken out a loan to start my company. I worked out what my skills were from a young age and used them to make my way in life having been written off by schools and society.

There was no social workers giving hand outs or making excuses for me and bad behaviour wasn't an option. I had no parental support, no connection with anyone really. I did meet a couple of unique individuals who shaped my life as a teenager and I think this alone gave me the inspiration to achieve what i have today. What I did learn though, is that there is no point blaming anyone or having an expectation that anyone gives a stuff because it doesn't happen. It's all down to you in the end. That's why I'm saying that you can't blame the UK or make what's happening in the UK your reason for leaving.

Bevm

Interesting comments. I wonder, why Edmonton? Nothing against it, but I assume there's a reason. Property prices are a lot higher in Alberta, so there won't be the same chance to buy up as in, for example, New Brunswick. It's also a lot colder than many people. How are you and your family going to feel about 6 months or so of harsh weather and very short days? Clearly, lots of people like it in Edmonton, but it's worth thinking about. We fled Canadian winters that weren't as bad. Now we're planning to leave Canada, but not so desperately.

What work are you planning to do in Canada, because there are places I'd choose before Edmonton if I was able. The weather, you know.

Is there no possibility of joining a police force in a quieter part of the UK? Again, just wondering if it's not possible or you want something entirely different. A quick look indicated that most crime in Manchester seems to be twice or more the English average.

Clearly many people still really like living in England. All my friends and relatives do. It's possible to get tunnel vision when our particular situation looks awful.

Best wishes on a big decision,

Bev

BristolUK

You appear to be confused. That's twice, now, I've said I don't blame the UK and didn't even consider I had a problem in the UK. I even said I had been contented there. I also said that the assets I had in the UK (when I lived there) had enabled me to do more in Canada. Why would I see myself as stuck when I have clearly stated I no longer have that undervalued employment and have a better standard of livng in Canada?


Why do I believe in restrictions? I'm really puzzled over that one. Along with being a police officer. I think you have me muddled with someone else.


Edited to add: I think I see the problem. It looks like you are responding to comments made by me and one other as if we are the same person.

cricket1again

You are quite correct, I have accidentally quoted your post but you have responded so yes, I am confused. Never mind.
Anyway, good luck to you on your journey wherever you end up.

BristolUK

No problem. It's quite late.
I think I've already ended up where I'm going. Apart from a move a couple of hours away to Nova Scotia.

Diggler

Cricket1, and the rest of you, i hear what your saying, (despite you getting your replies muddled cricket1). Perhaps its something i just have to try. I wont be burning any bridges and im not daft.

And come on cricket1 - lets not split hairs, i said population touching 70 million. 61 and a bit, fair enough. They are the ones the government knows about !

Regards everyone,

Diggler.

dingbat

That's a relief. As someone who lives in a world of gallows humour and de-sensitization due to profession, it's no different here. More space, less people, same horrors.

Grayling

Plenty of illegals here in Australia as well

Diggler

So as well as the organized crime, gangs, drugs and prostetution etc (which every city has) - you also have kids as young as ten living in rural villages getting pissed, carrying knives and battering old age pensioners for "a laugh" ? I kid you not.