robin1234

Apparently the total NHS budget for 2015 is 115 billion pounds. So a 2 billion deficit doesn't sound like its the end of the world. Just the government being unrealistic in its allocations. NHS has certain services to deliver and it needs an additional 2 billion to do it adequately.

Shard

I think it's 2BN in the first quarter, and on top of a 12BN need in funding.

Bud the Wiser

A few changes I didn't know about in this article.........

Terrifyingly, according to the World Health Organisation definition the UK no longer has a NHS | Voices | The Independent

scot47

The information war continues. Those with a vested interest want us to believe that the NHS is unaffordable and that we have to revert to a pre-NHS system. Financiers and US Health Companies would love to slice off great chunks of the Health Service and run it for a profit. this is one of the aspects of TIPP. Sod em. What was good enough for Nye Bevan is good enough for me !

vikingsail

That about sums it up. 2 billion is a drop in the ocean, even 12 billion given other expenditures.

I defy anyone who has lived in the USA to tell you its better to have to pay for service and for many who don't have 'gold plated' health policies be subject to yearly high deductibles and the worry that they will have to fund a % of any healthcare needs they or their dependents have. For example, imagine you go to the Dr in the UK for a skin rash, a typical everyday thing - treatment ensues no cost out of pocket. Here in the US that could easily be a $500 plus experience. And that is reality. I had a visitor who had a UK travel insurance and visited here and had a skin rash about 7 years ago. That little experience ended up costing the Insurance company $1200 dollars. And initially they tried to collect from me because I took them to the clinic!

Don't let them take it away you don't know what you lost until its gone.

ribenapete

It's sad to read the NHS struggles. I've lived in the US for 10 years now and still hate to live in the private healthcare system. As an industry in the US, healthcare is a big money maker. Choices are everywhere, (there are at least 10 ERs within 30 mins of us), but at what cost? If you have a good job and corresponding good employer funded health insurance you muddle through. If not, bad health can cause you to lose everything. Even with reasonable health insurance, costs are a major concern. Here are a couple of recent family experiences:
- Having a baby, no complications, no hospital stay. Out of pocket cost $2,500 after insurance payments.
- Gall bladder removal with a few complications and 2 ER visits. Hospital bills $110,000. Out of pocket cost (after insurance payments) $4,200.
For someone who was raised on a free health system the US system is scary.

Editha

I think most people would agree that the NHS is preferable to the healthcare system in the USA. But is the NHS superior to the systems in Canada, Germany, or France, where the system is based primarily on compulsory private insurance?

The WHO last compared national health systems in 2000, and then placed France 1st and the UK 18th. The UK has a relatively poor record on treating cancer, fewer hospital beds relative to the size of the population and fewer doctors per person than any other Western European country except Ireland.

It is very difficult to compare health systems, and different studies have produced very different results depending on their methodology. This article in the Socialist Health Association concludes that there is little evidence to justify the belief that the NHS is 'the envy of the world.'

scot47

The Tory ideologues are chipping away. Their press organs like the DM and the DE are continually telling their readers that the NHS is unaffordable. Drip, drip, drip.

EuroTrash

How do you work that out? Private insurance is not compulsory in France, that I am aware of...
I hope it isn't, because I don't have any!

Editha

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France

Jerseygirl

I cannot speak for all Canadian provinces but private insurance is not compulsary in Ontario. In fact quite the opposite. From what I understand it is illegal to use private medical care/doctor if the care is available under OHIP.

Editha

I"m sorry but there is some kind of misunderstanding here. The Ontario health system is actually called The Ontario Health Insurance Plan. That is what I mean by compulsory health insurance. It is a different system to the NHS.

What is more, unlike the NHS, the OHIP does not cover medicines, except for particular groups, e.g. over 65s.

feelbritish

In British Columbia we had to pay for medical too, only if you were low income you did not pay. It cost about $90month and also did not cover prescriptions over 65. Heaven help you if you needed cancer drugs and owned a house outright and had savings! Also it did not cover you out of province either. Medical services were good but doctor got paid on treatment so was easy to get appointment and they pushed consultants if needed. Canada also has a third population of UK so normally no problem getting appointment, problem came with getting a doctor initially as a lot were just not taking on new patients so you had to use walk in clinics. NHS far superior to most countries and I have lived on 3 continents using different methods and I cannot commend the NHS enough. People here abuse it.

Editha

Most people I know who have lived in France or Germany have preferred the system there to the NHS.

EuroTrash

Fortunately I never had to use the NHS much and I haven't needed to use the French health system much either, so as a user I can't really comment in terms of quality of service. In financial terms, the obvious difference is that the NHS is free at the point of delivery and the French healthcare system in most cases is not, for most treatments the state only covers 70 per cent of the cost; also in terms of contributions, the NHS took less out of my pocket in NICs than France does in cotisations (as in, a few hundred a year in the UK, a few thousand a year on a similar income in France - so about 10 times as much).

Editha, I think the misunderstanding stemmed from the reference to compulsory private health insurance. Certainly it is compulsory to have health cover in force if you live in France, but most people have state cover not private cover. Everybody who works in France, and most EU citizens who live in France but don't work and don't have an S1, join the state system (PUMA). For people who for whatever reason are not eligible to join the state system then yes, they would be obliged to take out private health insurance.

My own personal view is that it's a mistake for NHS treatment to be totally free at the point of delivery. People take free healthcare for granted and place no value on it. They regard it as the state's responsibility to look after them, an automatic right, not their responsibility, not something they should have to dip into their own pocket towards. Sometimes, Brits who move to France are scandalised at finding they're expected to pay towards their own healthcare. We can't afford it, they say - but they can afford top of the range TV sets and other luxuries. It's a question of priorities, and having to contribute to the cost of healthcare, even a small affordable amount, makes you realise the value of healthcare - if only because you see the invoice, and you realise how much the state has paid for you to have that treatment. Maybe people would look after themselves better, be more careful with diet and lifestyle, smoke and drink less if the NHS did this, It would also help the NHS balance its books, and so as not to cause hardship there could be exemptions for those on low incomes, as indeed there are in France.