The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

are you concerned about any of this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25549715

"All Bulgarian and Romanian citizens will be free to live and work in the UK after temporary controls in place since 2007 expire on Wednesday.

The UK has not released forecasts of migrant numbers but campaigners say up to 50,000 people a year could come."

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

That is the significant word, they could also all stay where they are, move to France, Germany, Spain etc, all of which have the same or similar stories. By campaigners I suppose you mean a few Tory MPs, UKIP, and readers of the DM.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Am I concerned? No not in the slightest to be honest.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Neither am I, and I live in the UK.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

The gutter press and those with an agenda will have us believe its the end of the world as we know it and those with even half a brain will be able to see the reality.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Ignoring the gutter press - just in your small world, do you believe the influx of the new EU citizens into the UK, no matter how many there are, will they directly have an impact or affect your daily life in any way (for the better or worse) in the next twelve months?

and from the gutter press, could this mean more than expected Eastern Europeans will arrive in the UK

Hundreds of thousands from outside the EU will be eligible to work in Britain from today because of a passport giveaway by Bulgaria and Romania.

It will give some of the poorest in Europe the right to live and work here.
Bulgaria and Romania are offering national status to minority or ethnic groups living in non-EU states including Moldova, Macedonia, Serbia, Ukraine and Turkey.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

No I dont think it will impact my life one way or the other. The gutter press like the Daily Mail love to tell us all what MIGHT happen and ignore what probably will happen.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Earlier today I listed to an interview of a gentlemen from Migration Watch regarding the expected numbers. They can't give any. The interview was really hilarious. According to this expert, there is a "definite possibility" of the UK being over-run.

I think this good gentleman surely had waffles for breakfast.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

A lot of hysteria and misrepresentation or ignorance of the facts. Even the BBC isn't immune.

Bulgarians and Romanians have had the right to live and work in the UK since 2007. Most of those who wanted to work in the UK are already here in certain specified industries or self-employed. The only change being made is that they are now free to take any job. However with the UK economy not being nearly as buoyant as it was in 2004 and the rising cost of living working in the UK doesn't work out as nearly as good a deal as it used to.

Also, unlike in 2004 when only the UK, Ireland and Sweden failed to impose transitional work restrictions on Poland and the other A8 countries, the rest of Western Europe is also lifting their restrictions today. Therefore there are far fewer potential migrants with a far greater range of countries to choose.

Those who do come will be working in the same low-paid, low-skilled jobs that employers cannot fill at the moment with British workers despite the high unemployment. They will work in factories, warehouses, farms and pubs for minimum wage.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

There's plenty of hysteria and ignorance on a similar thread on the US forum (Trailer Park),

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Skimmed the first page and decided I wasn't even going to try and get involved!

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

The irony of British emigrants being so anti-immigration is lost on them. I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at some of the ignorant comments. Mind you, it is equal opportunity ignorance - now they're on to how lazy and shiftless anyone who lives north of the Watford Gap is.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Some "assimilate" more so than others. Could be where they've chosen to live in the US. Could be the influence of their US "family" - if they've come on the family route. Could be how rotten they thought their life was in the UK.

I've never understood how people could be "anti migrant" when they are either migrants themselves or married to one. But it seems to be part of the culture.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

I had a German immigrant friend living in Australia carrying on to me about the bloody immigrants in Australia and how they get preferential treatment, it really was irony overload. :lol:

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

The attitudes of some Brit expats towards eastern European immigrants reminds me a lot of attitudes I saw towards Hispanic immigrants in the US.

There's a very NIMBY-ish aspect to it. Even supposedly open-minded people can't consider the welfare of others without a strong self-interested concern with how it might affect them.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Internet communities of migrants to the US are full of "illegal" haters. I think that's partly because the US system is so sloooooooooow. People develop a perception that they suffered ages to live legally in the US. How that is somehow worse than living illegally in the country with the fear of ICE of your doorstep has always eluded me.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

I think some people also do consider themselves just naturally superior by 'virtue' of being white and/or English-speaking.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

My ears are burning! All I was trying to say in a Desmond Morris way, is that people in crowded cities like London get freaked out by the prospect of overcrowding. It's a natural thing and I do hear Londoners moaning about it including my family who live in East London.
In the big scheme of things historically whenever there's been a wave of migrants coming to London, there's also been some bumps during the transition.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

I did see a survey of younger people something like 20 to 35 and 73% dont have a problem with allowing free movement. It is only the vocal minority and sheep that disagree and think the sky is falling.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Unfortunately a survey is not scientific enough. Not taking sides but just saying. :lol:
It is interesting though reading this thread and the one on the US forum. Each side believes they are correct. Could there be a bit of truth on both sides? Only time will tell I suppose :D

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

I can't see how any right-minded peron could think that Romanian people are socially inferior to British people.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Not over the next 12 months, but ultimately immigrants always improve quality of life in the country they arrive in. They start businesses, take jobs no-one else wants, and generally add to the economic welfare of everyone else. It's always been that way, and it always will be.

This fear of immigrants always strikes me as particularly weird on a website dedicated to immigrants. Go figure!

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

No, the facts actually tell. If you read the economic statistics, immigration is always a plus.

On one side you have facts and on the other side you have fear and ignorance. The truth isn't somewhere in the middle of those two things. It just isn't.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

The rhetoric is familar to me, having grown up in Birmingham during a period of immigration from Asia. Pakistanis in particular came in for a lot of stick but were among the most hardworking and innovative contributors to the economy you could find.

I can understand why some people may be fearful of the economic conequences, but I can't understand the bigoted attitudes of some BE-ers on this topic.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

I didn't mean your posts - I could see your point and you didn't come across as having a superior attitude about eastern Europeans.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

With all respect, it appears some of you live in bucolic, rural areas where sudden influx of foreign people is a rare occurrence. Nothing wrong with that, but to suggest that Londoners who are nervous about this are racist and intolerant is unfair.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Ok thank you, I was starting to get a complex for a bit!

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

The Romanians are very educated and have similar values to us. I believe the furor is about the Roma people.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

I think many people are concerned that our ethic mix will be changed so much that our culture and Britishness will be lost. Also our country is too small for a continued big increase in population, though no doubt this will happen over the years.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Agreed! However that does not negate the fact that each side "might"have a valid point or two that has nothing to do with being socially inferior. I noticed you were very vocal in the US thread. No problem with that. However I'm not going down that road :fingerscrossed: :lol: just think it's an interesting thread and continue to be fascinated by what is taking place in the UK

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Unless 30 million people suddenly move to the UK I think the British cultural identity will survive. There is a housing shortage in the UK, particularly in the South-East, but it's an easy dodge to lay that particular problem at the feet of immigrants. With or without them there still wouldn't be enough affordable housing to go around.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

In the 60's some were worried that immigration would weaken the 'Britishness' of the country, the fears were of course unfounded and the same in the 70's, 80's, 90's......

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Sorry but that's cobblers. If there is any positive impact on the UK economy at all and that's open to debate, it is extremely small. Any increase at all, should be viewed in the light of the increased social costs and pressures that have resulted from the large movements of people into the UK. Economics isn't the be all and end all of everything.

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/brie...r/document/235

The UK needs a PROPER discussion about immigration and just sweeping away people who raise the negatives as 'racist' or 'bigots' achieves absolutely nothing. If anything it plays into the hands of the more extreme parties.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Absolutely agree with your last two points, but the last one goes in both directions. Portraying immigrants as scruffy, socially inferior criminals (read the US thread and it is in there) can't go unchallenged, for the same reasons. Fomenting that sort of attitude also plays into the hands of extremists. And calling people who point this out as being "naive", "bleeding heart liberal", and "in la la land" doesn't make for reasoned debate.

I'm happy to discuss specific points about immigration in a logical, reasoned way, but it takes two to tango. You can't discuss reasonably with someone whose main point of response is to tell you you're an idiot, or some such.

Interestingly, no one "over there" has raised the democratic solution to their perceived problems. Probably they'd rather bitch and moan than do something about getting a UK vote.

For the record, I am shocked at the new policies governing UK citizens' non-EU spouses. But it's not the fault of the Romanians.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

This morning, all the red tops are posting an interview with a guy named Victor, the one Romanian who was on a flight that landed yesterday at Luton. He has a job lined up as a car-washer for three months, after which time he says he intends to go home.

One.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

That cant be right, there are going to be 6 million flooding in. I read that somewhere. As has been said immigration is a good thing for a country, migrants tend to be very productive citizens and overall make a massive positive impact on an economy.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

And anyone who truly believes that also believes in the tooth fairy. I would never believe it until I see our Romany mate Victor board a flight from Luton to Bucharest on a one way single ticket.

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Like many Brits since the end of the second world war that emigrated to the US, Canada, OZ, NZ or SA. Of course the locals in those countries would dispute that migrants add any value.

How many Brits that emigrated have said 'we'll stay a while make enough money then bugger off home' or those that go to the Middle East on contract for two years with the hope of making enough money to either send home or be able to buy a house at the end of the term.

Romanians, Poles or Bulgarians or whoever no different than any immigrant, its the want of a better life or short stop to get more money for a better lifestyle back in their home country. Short to medium term pain for hopefully a long term gain.

Money ..............

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Times have changed. It used to be that Brits in large numbers were leaving, so there was ample space and enough jobs available to replace them.

However in more recent years the exodus has been fewer, yet more and more people are coming in especially from eastern Europe. Our population isn't increasing solely because of births, but by the increase in immigration.

So how high is our population's optimum point, who will decide, and on what grounds?

Re: The Bulgarian & Romanians
 

Part of the economic rationale for letting in more immigrants (especially younger ones) is to shore up the burgeoning cost of state pensions (much larger aged population, and living longer, compared to the 1960s and 1970s). So changing demographics also present a case for immigration.