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WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Old Mar 31st 2017, 5:14 am
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Default WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Found this fairly long interesting article today:

Why are Chinese moving to Malaysia by the thousands? | This Week In Asia | South China Morning Post
BY TASHNY SUKUMARANCOCO LIU
25 MAR 2017
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Old Mar 31st 2017, 11:31 pm
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Seems contrary to that earlier article... but financial controls only came in recently. The Chinese seem trapped between runaway inflation in China and Hong Kong and their inability to transfer their incomes abroad.

Country Garden halts Malaysian housing sales amid capital flight crackdown | South China Morning Post
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Old Apr 1st 2017, 1:36 am
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Originally Posted by columbine View Post
Found this fairly long interesting article today:

Why are Chinese moving to Malaysia by the thousands? | This Week In Asia | South China Morning Post
BY TASHNY SUKUMARANCOCO LIU
25 MAR 2017
Yes, I wonder how those people manage to pay for their bought properties? Shadow banking? I think they can transfer money out other than for properties.
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Old Apr 1st 2017, 10:53 am
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Originally Posted by columbine View Post
Yes, I wonder how those people manage to pay for their bought properties? Shadow banking? I think they can transfer money out other than for properties.
Paul - the person interviewed for the news article, went to Australia to study for his degree. There would have been lots for opportunity to transfer money out of China, both officially or unofficially.

Officially - Paul's parents can send him money for his fees and living cost or even capital to purchase a flat / house in Australia (to be use by Paul when he was at university, then sold when he finished his degree).

A Chinese national can only transfer US$50,000 out of China officially per year. Paul and his parents can ask friends and relatives to use their own allowance on their behalf.

Unofficially - Paul could have been taking cash from China back to Australia on his home visits. His parents can also took the opportunity to take more cash out of China when they come over to Australia to visit Paul.

Many businessmen and officials in China wants to leave China as there is an anti corruption drive being carried out by the Chinese central government just now. Corruption is the original sin for many businessmen and party officials.
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Old Apr 1st 2017, 12:38 pm
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

I'm from Shanghai. Here's my story, I just got my 10 years MM2H visa 2 weeks ago. To me, Shanghai is still a great city to do business, but not a good place for living, I run my own consulting business to my clients in China, the business is still very good. There's no original sin for my business like HKG3 claimed.

Our family traveled quite extensively during the past 10 years. We traveled to abroad almost 3 months a year. We are blessed to meet friends and strangers all over the world. And we want to do something different in our life, like a lot of expats here, we don't want to stick our life in one place only.

Below are some of the reason come to us when we made decision to move to abroad.

1. Education:
I have 2 young kids. Although the public education in Shanghai is very good from academic perspective, I don't like it as the school system focus on academic only. Through Monday to Friday old daughter has to do her homework until 9pm. At school, literally there's no breaks between classes. Most of her classmates go to after school classes everyday, Monday to Sunday, period. They also teach our kids to hate, school brought them to watch WWII movie about communist fight against Japanese invader。

International school in Shanghai is much more than most International schools across Asia. The tuition fee for grade 10 is about 40,000 USDa year for British International school in Shanghai. While for Grade 10 in Alice Smith KL, it's about 20,000 USD annually. You may find fees for BIS Shanghai here: Our Fees | BIS - Shanghai, Puxi | Nord Anglia

Even if the cost is not an issue, my kids still can't get in as the international schools in China open to foreign passport holders only.

2. Pollution
Everyone knows that. It's really sad to see my kids to wear masks when they went to school.

3. Anxiety
After almost 30 years high speed economic grows, China becomes rich in general. A very sad thing is China's today is basically an anxious society. Everyone is very anxious about anything: career, hospital, education, show off, parents-kids relationship, betrayal in marriage, luxury lifestyle, competition between classmates and their parents ect. The list could go on.

To get MM2H approval and send 300K RM investment funds from China was not that difficult. At a cost of approx. 1,800 USD, we got our approval 5 months after submission. Not too much story to tell.

In terms of funds from China:

We have bank accounts in Hong Kong and we have deposited our USD to that account during the past 3 years, the initial reason to open a such account was we don't want to put all eggs in one basket.

To most people room China, the real estate price in KL is really cheap. To me, I can buy a very nice condo with size of 3,000 sft in Kiara Mont with approx. 2 Million RM, with in Shanghai, where I come from, I could only buy a 400 sft studio.

Most investors from China use leverage to buy new properties in Malaysia. The down payment is really low here, and some developers here provide up to 8 installments for payment. I don't think most people has problem to send 2 Million RM worth USD from China. As every adult in China could send 50,000 USD out of China annually. Use 10 relatives or friends without any extra cost make it half million USD.

I don't believe anti corruption campaign is the may reason for many businessmen to leave China. Actually, most of them are not leaving China, believe it or not, it's a business heaven for lots businessmen. The market is tremendous and the opportunities are endless.
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Old Apr 2nd 2017, 8:23 am
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Originally Posted by columbine View Post
Yes, I wonder how those people manage to pay for their bought properties? Shadow banking? I think they can transfer money out other than for properties.
Isn't the developer a Chinese company? Would the customers be able to pay domestically, i.e. in China, to the developer? That would solve the issue for the buyers of the condo's. What would remain is how the Chinese developer can pay the construction expenses in Malaysia.

I'm sure that the Chinese will be able to find a way around this bottleneck.
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Old Apr 2nd 2017, 3:41 pm
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Originally Posted by SushiFan View Post
I'm sure that the Chinese will be able to find a way around this bottleneck.
It is like always, the tiger will find a solution, the mouse will not.

My chinese friends here in Malaysia don´t use a moneychanger to get their MYR, the use an agent.
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Old Apr 3rd 2017, 3:20 am
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Very interesting to get some insights from HKG3 and Cinhu. Networking seems to be a very effective way in moving money out legally US50k per person. No doubt China is a huge market for businessmen, doesn't make sense for them to leave. I think the ones who have tried to leave are the corrupted officials. China has extradited quite a number hiding in foreign countries.
In todays HK Standard news report Macau gambling business bounced back up in Feb and March at the fastest pace!
Gross gaming receipts rose 18.1 percent to 21.2 billion patacas (HK$20.58 billion). That follows a 17.8 percent jump in February and beats the average expectation of 15 percent increase in a Bloomberg survey of eight analysts.
Both high-stakes VIP and leisure gamblers bounced back in Macau after a two-year slump amid a crackdown on corruption in the mainland.]
This seems to imply money is able to move out of China somehow legally or illegally even with the curb on gambling!

Sushifan, I think there are always ways for developers to transfer money out for businesses. Look at the China developers with their companies in HK buying up land in HK at PREMIUM land prices beating all the major local HK developers at land tenders.
Yes, I'm puzzled why can't the buyers pay the China developer in China locally?

Last edited by columbine; Apr 3rd 2017 at 3:24 am.
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Old Apr 3rd 2017, 3:33 am
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Originally Posted by columbine View Post
Very interesting to get some insights from HKG3 and Cinhu. Networking seems to be a very effective way in moving money out legally US50k per person. No doubt China is a huge market for businessmen, doesn't make sense for them to leave. I think the ones who have tried to leave are the corrupted officials. China has extradited quite a number hiding in foreign countries.
In todays HK Standard news report Macau gambling business bounced back up in Feb and March at the fastest pace!
Gross gaming receipts rose 18.1 percent to 21.2 billion patacas (HK$20.58 billion). That follows a 17.8 percent jump in February and beats the average expectation of 15 percent increase in a Bloomberg survey of eight analysts.
Both high-stakes VIP and leisure gamblers bounced back in Macau after a two-year slump amid a crackdown on corruption in the mainland.]
This seems to imply money is able to move out of China somehow legally or illegally even with the curb on gambling!

Sushifan, I think there are always ways for developers to transfer money out for businesses. Look at the China developers with their companies in HK buying up land in HK at PREMIUM land prices beating all the major local HK developers at land tenders.
Yes, I'm puzzled why can't the buyers pay the China developer in China locally?
Going by experience having worked on projects done by Chinese companies, Chinese govt. will always bail them out. contractors won't go belly up. At least this is what I experienced in Africa.
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Old Apr 4th 2017, 3:53 pm
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

I thank cinhu for the perspective as to why there is such a demand for legal long term visas by Chinese. I don't think this can only be corrupt individuals since many of the people trapped by schemes such as Garden City weren't able to easily find means of getting the money out. And the Chinese government could easily simply rescind ones passport. They have no problem extradicting Taiwanese individuals that fall astray of the Beijing regime, why would they have any issue getting the Malaysian government to send mainland Chinese back for trial?

Sometimes its simply the desire to have their kids educated under a different system, wanting to live in a less regimented society, or to get out and meet people who are different from themselves/see different cultures. There might be some that want to do international business, as well, but why apply for the restrictive MM2H visa?

Thairetired: "Yes, I'm puzzled why can't the buyers pay the China developer in China locally?" Usually developers are not 100% share-holders in the scheme. The deal might be 30% Chinese, 30% Malaysian and 40% Singaporean with the Chinese paid "up front". The financing might them have the amounts paid to the fees paid to the Malaysian/Singaporean investors coming principally out of the rents, leasing contracts and fees. It might thus be difficult for the Chinese partner to shift the amounts abroad.

It also depends on how much the Chinese government is involved in the Chinese contractors. The large train and highway building in Africa were directly involved with Chinese government agencies, as were some of the energy schemes, mobile phones, dams, ports, etc.
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Old Apr 4th 2017, 6:15 pm
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Originally Posted by RedApe View Post
And the Chinese government could easily simply rescind ones passport.
Well, if you have connections, you may be able to get another passport in a different name.
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Old Apr 4th 2017, 7:03 pm
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Fake passports are harder to use with biometrics and integration of databases. The old method of simply stealing another persons and changing it to your photo is no longer possible in most places (of course one can cross an unmanned border, evade check-in, or bribe an immigration official...but why even have a fake passport, then). And we are talking about a more complicated procedure when you are getting a MM2M or employment visa.

I don't want to give any hints here, but you'd need assistance in a third country and a constructed identity there (preferably over years). It pretty much means cutting ties off with the home country if they want to avoid extradition. And any assets back home will likely be confiscated. Again, I'm doubtful that many people applying to MM2H would fall into this category. If they are caught establishing a business WITHIN Malaysia they could lose their visa.

But when we are talking about the criminal class they are not exclusively from any one nation. Right now the Bangladesh government is concerned about many immigrating to Malaysia absconding with state money.

ACC to investigate investments by Bangladeshis in Malaysia
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Old Apr 4th 2017, 7:25 pm
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Originally Posted by RedApe View Post
Fake passports are harder to use with biometrics and integration of databases. The old method of simply stealing another persons and changing it to your photo is no longer possible in most places (of course one can cross an unmanned border, evade check-in, or bribe an immigration official...but why even have a fake passport, then). And we are talking about a more complicated procedure when you are getting a MM2M or employment visa.

I don't want to give any hints here, but you'd need assistance in a third country and a constructed identity there (preferably over years). It pretty much means cutting ties off with the home country if they want to avoid extradition. And any assets back home will likely be confiscated. Again, I'm doubtful that many people applying to MM2H would fall into this category. If they are caught establishing a business WITHIN Malaysia they could lose their visa.

But when we are talking about the criminal class they are not exclusively from any one nation. Right now the Bangladesh government is concerned about many immigrating to Malaysia absconding with state money.

ACC to investigate investments by Bangladeshis in Malaysia
I am not talking about fake passport, but real passport with fake details - produced with insider's help in China.

As you can see above, Chinese people are very clever and they will manage to move money out of the country. You just need to look at Bo Xilai's son, Bo Guagua who studied at Columbia Law School in the US between 2013 and 2016 after his father's fail from power in China and his mother's arrest for murder in 2012.
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Old Apr 4th 2017, 10:04 pm
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Originally Posted by cinhu View Post
I just got my 10 years MM2H visa 2 weeks ago. I run my own consulting business to my clients in China, the business is still very good.
Presumably you made it clear on your mm2h application that you were planning on running your business from Malaysia?
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Old Apr 4th 2017, 11:27 pm
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Default Re: WHY ARE CHINESE MOVING TO MALAYSIA BY THE THOUSANDS?

Originally Posted by RedApe View Post
I thank cinhu for the perspective as to why there is such a demand for legal long term visas by Chinese. I don't think this can only be corrupt individuals since many of the people trapped by schemes such as Garden City weren't able to easily find means of getting the money out. And the Chinese government could easily simply rescind ones passport. They have no problem extradicting Taiwanese individuals that fall astray of the Beijing regime, why would they have any issue getting the Malaysian government to send mainland Chinese back for trial?

Sometimes its simply the desire to have their kids educated under a different system, wanting to live in a less regimented society, or to get out and meet people who are different from themselves/see different cultures. There might be some that want to do international business, as well, but why apply for the restrictive MM2H visa?

Thairetired: "Yes, I'm puzzled why can't the buyers pay the China developer in China locally?" Usually developers are not 100% share-holders in the scheme. The deal might be 30% Chinese, 30% Malaysian and 40% Singaporean with the Chinese paid "up front". The financing might them have the amounts paid to the fees paid to the Malaysian/Singaporean investors coming principally out of the rents, leasing contracts and fees. It might thus be difficult for the Chinese partner to shift the amounts abroad.

It also depends on how much the Chinese government is involved in the Chinese contractors. The large train and highway building in Africa were directly involved with Chinese government agencies, as were some of the energy schemes, mobile phones, dams, ports, etc.

RedApe, This was not my post about paying in China.

Contractors in Africa, even smaller companies had strong support from Chinese govt. I assume the ones in Malaysia have too. Don't overlook that a contractor going bump would be huge loss of face.
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