MM2Hers stuck outside

Old Apr 26th 2020, 5:26 am
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Default MM2Hers stuck outside

I read with some disappointment the news that MM2H holders are not allowed to return to their homes in Malaysia during the MCO, i was not aware of it until reading the news article: https://malaysiansmustknowthetruth.b...-say-mm2h.html

This seems arbitary and unfair, the idea of a HOME (which is part of Malaysia My 2nd HOME) is a place that you have particular affinity and some 'right" to, i hope Malay govt consider the plight of full time MM2Hers and allow them return back to the security of thier homes.
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Old Apr 26th 2020, 11:37 pm
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Default Re: MM2Hers stuck outside

It’s because you are a foreigner. And foreigners spread disease. But returning Malaysians are ok, as long as they quarantine for two weeks.

there’s a huge rise of anti foreigners sentiment, especially towards migrant workers, despite the fact that those migrant workers currently infected in absolutely no way could have brought in the virus, given they have been in country since at least and almost certainly before the MCO started. - over 6 weeks ago.
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Old Apr 27th 2020, 6:06 am
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Default Re: MM2Hers stuck outside

Frankly I dont think Malays have the market cornered on xenophobia .. (Trump is the best and the greatest and sensible genius candidate for it .. ) I wonder how rest of the ASEAN countries (since they all have their versions of retirement schemes) are treating retirement pass holder? May be Davita can shed some light from Indonesia point of view .. Thailand /Philippines ?

I think MM2Her ban is most likely an oversight (a victim of legendary bureaucratic (in)competence ) .. MM2Hers are not taking jobs away or taxing the social services.. them being resented does not make logical sense (except of course the Chinese issue) ..

Nevertheless, i think its a cause for serious concern if you can be locked out of your primary residence in case of calamity natural or otherwise.. where are you supposed to go? I was not aware that there was a clause in the MM2H contract that disallowed you entrance in case of pandemic/tsunami/earthquake etc etc.. I AM a big fan of the MM2H program and find it one of the most generous and sensible one around.. but no matter how good it is .. if you locked out ..when you need to be home most .. is s serious cause for concern ..
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Old Apr 27th 2020, 7:32 am
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Default Re: MM2Hers stuck outside

I didn’t say Malaysia was worst,I’m saying the sentiment here, right now, is bad.

also MM2H is second home. Clearly says so, and one is now seeing the real intent. It’s a ten year visa where you hold your second home, not your first.

and no, mm2h people are not special. You have not been forgotten - the ban is on all foreigners, and you are one. I have a ten year talent pass, so I have a salary far above the minimum wage or even national average (min requirement is RM 15k/month) and I pay taxes. If I left, I too would be locked out.
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Old Apr 29th 2020, 5:26 am
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Default Re: MM2Hers stuck outside

Originally Posted by OriginalSunshine View Post
.... despite the fact that those migrant workers currently infected in absolutely no way could have brought in the virus, given they have been in country since at least and almost certainly before the MCO started. - over 6 weeks ago.
Not "absolutely no way". There are ways of a group bringing in a virus from abroad and it being detected weeks and months later. For example, someone could have come in...say in early February and was asymptomatic. That person spreads the virus to others, who also show weak symptoms and they don't get medical attention because they don't want to lose their jobs. Then you have a few folks that get more seriously ill but stop going to work. Their contractor doesn't want to have his whole operation shut down so keeps quiet. Some may send the worker back to Bangladesh. So it percolates and incubates around. No reporting of illness in that community while the hospitals are dealing with citizens. Guest workers have too much to lose to report and even fatalities might be reported as something else.

But all or most of the current Covid-19 cases probably derive from individuals that came in prior to the MRO being instituted.They have just percolated around and back and forth in untested communities with poorer access to free or subsidized health care....or who were worried about losing their jobs.
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Old Apr 29th 2020, 12:06 pm
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Default Re: MM2Hers stuck outside

One could view "Second Home" as meaning two different things. One is that you should not cut ties with your original country and keep your property, accounts, and other things back home. In that sense MM2H is sort of like a time share. The other sense would be that it is your Second Home in sequence. You originally lived in your First Home, and now that you are Retired or wealthy enough to live in the tropics that you can move there. It's your Second (and perhaps Final) Home.

In the first case the Government of Malaysia should have a BIG RED WARNING appended to the application that states that:

The Ten Year, Multi-Entry/Exit Visa offers no guarantee that the government may prevent your access to any property you purchase, or rental property that you may be leasing, might deny your access to bank accounts you place in Malaysia, or could terminate your childrens education. Moving your household goods may risk their abandonment, or your dependents and pets might be separated from you without any effort by the government to reunite you. Caveat Emptor.

I'll bet they'll get a lot of applications with that.

But in fact the MM2H has encouraged they idea that Malaysia could be a more permanent domicile. The program is constantly talked about in relation to property purchase. And to encourage this MM2H has a special status where recipients can purchase homes or condos at a lower ceiling than non-participants. There is no tax on household goods shipped into the country. One must have a 10-Year Fixed Deposit, and car only withdraw money from that IF one purchases property, or a car, or for tuition for children (oh and health care needs).

The are told that renewal is just a formality as long as one maintains that FD and has the necessary income.

Yes, the are not given Permanent Residency status, which would allow them to work...which MM2H doesn't. But an MM2H couple brings in as much revenue to Malaysia as 100 One-Week tourists...and they do it year in-year out for a decade without any need for massive promotions and special events. That's 1000 short-term Tourists over that stretch...and they recruit their friends and others. You'd think that the simple gesture of treating them live they do returning holiday making Malaysian tourists...with a quarantine and health checks...would be a reasonable one.

And most of those MM2H's are unlikely to be as risky as returning students. They are not nearly as likely to have attended some large scale event, lived in student dormitories with lots of students from all over the world, attended large lecture sections and student rallies, concerts, mixers, etc. They aren't asking for a special government subsidised flight back from Hunan or Jakarta, either. They are willing to follow the rules. No one wants to risk the lives of their family, friends or the Malaysian people.

https://www.expatgo.com/my/2020/04/1...7czy8LuohIqIuo
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 3:48 am
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Default Re: MM2Hers stuck outside

Hi RedApe.. I see the things the same way.. of course 'originalSunshine' disagrees. I think the word home, whether its retirement home/second home etc has certain connotation to it. Most importantly its the ideas/assurances and tacit understandings under which most (Myself included) entered this program. While three years later, I am still working and still plotting/planning my way to Malaysia... I never was under impression that MM2H is 'glorified tourist visa'...Of course some form of xenophobia (and not the scientific/logical thinking) is at the heart of the decision to keep MM2Hers out.. may be it has to do with majority of them being Chinese (if that is the case). Nevertheless, it unfortunately reflects poorly on Malaysia to leave stranded people who have done significant investments into being part of the society. Unfortunately, MM2Hersare not in no position to exert influence or be heard, the numbers are too small, they dont have a any lobby or representation in the circles of power... so that leaves them utterly disenfranchised. & its no surprise that a voiceless minority ... is unheard
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 11:06 am
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Default Re: MM2Hers stuck outside

Mm2h is and always has been a temporary visa, albeit a long term temporary visa. But temporary is temporary. It is not permanent, though many MM2Hers choose to make it their permanent home. I did for many years.
other countries have temporary visas and, as far as I'm aware, same is happening in those countries during this strange covid 19 time.
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 1:31 pm
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Default Re: MM2Hers stuck outside

Originally Posted by bakedbean View Post
Mm2h is and always has been a temporary visa, albeit a long term temporary visa. But temporary is temporary. It is not permanent, though many MM2Hers choose to make it their permanent home. I did for many years.
other countries have temporary visas and, as far as I'm aware, same is happening in those countries during this strange covid 19 time.
Haven't seen you around for some time bb.

Hope things are good for you.
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 9:23 pm
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All good exReg....thanks for asking. No longer in Penang. Left a couple years ago. Though I was back in Penang recently flogging my old property. Thankfully escaped by skin of teeth on lockdown day Malaysia and Australia.
the day I departed penang immigration, March 18th I think, immi officer asked when i planned to return. I thought it a strange question at the time but clearly they already knew that mm2hers would be barred for some time i guess.
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Old May 1st 2020, 12:30 am
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Default Re: MM2Hers stuck outside

Originally Posted by bakedbean View Post
All good exReg....thanks for asking. No longer in Penang. Left a couple years ago. Though I was back in Penang recently flogging my old property. Thankfully escaped by skin of teeth on lockdown day Malaysia and Australia.
the day I departed penang immigration, March 18th I think, immi officer asked when i planned to return. I thought it a strange question at the time but clearly they already knew that mm2hers would be barred for some time i guess.
yeah, we were told on Monday 16th that kids school would close Tuesday 17th. Lockdown announced on Tuesday for Wednesday 18th. It was planned.
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Old May 1st 2020, 8:12 am
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Default Re: MM2Hers stuck outside

Originally Posted by ssoomro View Post
Hi RedApe.. I see the things the same way.. of course 'originalSunshine' disagrees. I think the word home, whether its retirement home/second home etc has certain connotation to it. Most importantly its the ideas/assurances and tacit understandings under which most (Myself included) entered this program. While three years later, I am still working and still plotting/planning my way to Malaysia... I never was under impression that MM2H is 'glorified tourist visa'...Of course some form of xenophobia (and not the scientific/logical thinking) is at the heart of the decision to keep MM2Hers out.. may be it has to do with majority of them being Chinese (if that is the case). Nevertheless, it unfortunately reflects poorly on Malaysia to leave stranded people who have done significant investments into being part of the society. Unfortunately, MM2Hersare not in no position to exert influence or be heard, the numbers are too small, they dont have a any lobby or representation in the circles of power... so that leaves them utterly disenfranchised. & its no surprise that a voiceless minority ... is unheard
You may want to check again what is actually written on the visa in your passport. The words "second home" do not appear there. Nor does the word "residence". The visa clearly states that it is a "social visit pass". Which indeed sounds much more like a 'glorified tourist visa', as you call it (it is even issued by the Ministry of Tourism). Malaysia's marketing, using the slogan "my second home" may have given you the incorrect impression (as is often the case with marketing and advertisement).
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Old May 1st 2020, 9:29 am
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Default Re: MM2Hers stuck outside

Originally Posted by bakedbean View Post
Mm2h is and always has been a temporary visa, albeit a long term temporary visa. But temporary is temporary. It is not permanent, though many MM2Hers choose to make it their permanent home. I did for many years.
other countries have temporary visas and, as far as I'm aware, same is happening in those countries during this strange covid 19 time.
Then they should have that large RED Caveat Emptor box. Just suggesting that if this is indeed their view that they be honest that they can boot you out like Idi Amin.

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Old May 1st 2020, 9:59 am
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Default Re: MM2Hers stuck outside

Originally Posted by SushiFan View Post
You may want to check again what is actually written on the visa in your passport. The words "second home" do not appear there. Nor does the word "residence". The visa clearly states that it is a "social visit pass". Which indeed sounds much more like a 'glorified tourist visa', as you call it (it is even issued by the Ministry of Tourism). Malaysia's marketing, using the slogan "my second home" may have given you the incorrect impression (as is often the case with marketing and advertisement).

Actually My Pass States "For The Purpose of Staying Under the MM2H Program Only." Since MM2H means "Malaysia My Second Home" it is explicitly on the Pass. It also states that I am "Permitted to Enter and Remain in Malaysia until...(expiration date)". It doesn't restrict that entry in any specified way. Given that MM2H should be allowed to return under the same terms as other log-term pass holders that often have shorter expiration periods.

Other Passes are much more specific that they are "Temporary" (Domestic Workers Temporary Employment Pass); Short Term Social Visit Pass; Long-Term Visit Pass; Diplomatic Pass; etc.

Even the Long Term Social Visit Pass for foreign spouses (and dependents of a Malaysian citizen) has only a five year term. The may eventually receive a Residence Pass, which also have a 5 year term. Yet these foreign spouses/dependents have been allowed to return, after they have undergone quarantine.
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Old May 2nd 2020, 4:00 am
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Default Re: MM2Hers stuck outside

Mine says the same.. while none of us can impact Malay Govt policy.. the discussion here begs a number of cliches .. "Are you glass half full/half empty" kindda person/You get in life what you deserve etc" .. to continue beating this dead horse.. lets me say .. "some of us" did not enter into this program ..expecting it to be a "social visit/enhanced tourist visa" .. matters of truth in advertisement aside... Tourists are not expected to setup FDs, sign long term leases, buy homes etc. We did.. with an understanding that the status is not that of a mere tourist. While fully cognizant of limitation of our franchise, Mine is 'sense of disappointment', (throwing in a couple more cliches ) ...as they say the true character of things come out in the time of crisis.. the disappointment comes from finding out that "advertisements" were not true.. that we are "not special"...I for one .. dont dig not being special
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