bakedbean

I'm not actually planning on going anywhere. Well, I may (or may not) move within Penang. I did have a long, hard think after becoming "single" again, but I couldn't really come up with a better idea than staying in Penang. And a big move when retired and single? It's a bit daunting. So... my MM2H application is down in Putrajaya as we speak.

But, what if it all goes wrong? What if it changes here?

It's good to have a Plan B, just in case. So, what's yours?

For those with close family, there is probably the thought of going "home" for a lot of folks, wherever "home" is.

bakedbean

Here's my two favourites at the moment.

Cyprus

I've got a couple of friends who flit back and forth between Penang and Cyprus and they seem to love it there.

For Brits, and other Europeans, it's an easy option to get in. Would that change if UK left the EU?

Someone told me last year that there's been some changes with the tax situation in Cyprus and (I think) you can bring in offshore funds tax free now. (Someone please correct me if this is wrong.) I haven't gone into it in detail, as I am probably going to be staying in Penang.

The climate is fab and with some variety. The food is great. The people are great.

Cannot remember where I read it, so again please correct me if you know differently, but I believe that Brits who are getting the UK state pension can apply for a Cyprus Medical Card and that will get you mostly free healthcare at the state hospitals, which I understand are not bad.

bakedbean

Sri Lanka

Crikey, as of today January 2016, I've never even been there, so this is a bit speculative.

The food is great. Weather (I think) similar to here though I understand it can be a little cooler up in the hills. The people are nice. Hmmm some of the blokes are rather handsome

Fairly easy journey from Penang to Colombo, if one wanted to keep some assets in Malaysia.

I've looked at the link for the "retirement visa" before. It changes over the years, as these things do, but it seems to me that they are trying their best to copy MM2H. Albeit it's a lot cheaper than MM2H. You can take a look here:
Immigration Services Centre

Requires a Deposit in a bank there of USD 15,000. As at Jan 2016, that's MYR 64,000. Requires monthly remittance of USD 1,500. As at Jan 2016, that's MYR 6,400.

It's a 2 year visa and renewable.

I have a friend, who used to work in Sri Lanka, who is currently flip-flopping between doing the Sri Lanka visa or the Malaysia visa.

There are those that say that Sri Lanka is a bit dodgy. So....maybe not as stable an option as MM2H.

Epicurious

BB, have you considered Taiwan? Modern infrastructure, cooler climate (at least in winter), good healthcare, friendly people.

NeonHippy

Uhm not sure I would want to leave too much money laying around in Cyprus. They were the ones who decided that residents investments that were "protected' weren't really protected at all and emptied their accounts to pay the island's debt during the financial crisis.

I'm also not sure it is as simple as just having a plan B. At least for my wife and I, it depends on who shuffles off their mortal coil first and how quickly that event occurs. We have his and hers plans B, C, and D to contend with.

For example, most of our income is derived from my company pension. If I knew she would die first we could happily spend our savings and investments but should I die first my pension is reduced to 50% and she will benefit from maintaining some savings.

So we keep some money back, I hang on waiting for her to die first and then organise one hell of a wake here in Penang. But don't tell her

bakedbean

Tell us about the retirement visa.

JC3

It's a big question, isn't it.

For my wife, Plan B seems to be primarily and directly related to the proximity of patchwork and quilting supplies.

Seriously though, other than the Malaysia related issues, for us Plan B depends on investment portfolio growth or shrinkage, property prices both here and in Europe, exchange rates, income and capital gains tax, and of course, when? There’s also the possibility of grand-children to think about….I don’t expect the timing will ever be perfect.

Here in Penang, I enjoy living in a house, and meeting and chatting with local and expat neighbours as they pass the front gate whilst I’m gardening, or me theirs. That regular easy chance interaction with other people is something I’d like to replicate in Plan B, as is a garden - I love being outdoors.

In old age (I’m in my early fifties) we plan to live somewhere where it’s not essential to drive a car. We’d like to be in an attractive market town within easy walking distance of a baker, cafés, restaurants and a supermarket. I like the idea of a daily walk into town for my croissants and a chat. In Mallorca, we like the towns and villages in the Tramuntana mountains, and in Portugal I fancy Cascais on the Silver Coast that’s within easy striking distance of Lisbon. Portugal maybe well worth considering for its ten year tax holiday.

We’d prefer to live somewhere warm and sunny, but if ill health were to drive us back to the UK and the NHS, then market towns such as Petworth, Arundel or Chichester in West Sussex, Marlborough in Wiltshire, and Burford in Oxfordshire, would be on our list.

The biggest question for us, is perhaps how many times do we want to move before we find our ‘last’ home? Once or twice? Once would be wonderful.

For the moment Penang suits us very well, we’ve been here four years already, and we’re generally happy here.

JC3

JC3

Don't tell her? That sounds a bit mean to me NeonHippy. I really think you should allow her to attend her own wake.

JC3

eCdD

I don´t have any plan B, but I am surprised that you as a British not considering Malta.

That is one of the very few places in Europe I would consider, another is the Canary Islands. But I have no intention to go back to Europe, I was dreaming about moving Malaysia so many years and I am so happy to be here. Maybe ask me again in a couple of years

NeonHippy

We did consider and visit Malta after cutting our wish list down to the final two front runners. The climate is great, if a little cold during the winter months, the food is OK (great if you like pasta and tomatoes) but not very wide ranging. It offers some cultural possibilities that I haven't yet found in Penang (we enjoy opera) and if your income is high enough is lower taxation than the UK (they apply a flat 15% on all income so can be bad if you are on a low income).


On the downside, you are on a small volcanic rock with not much to do or see. There is little or no greenery to see. Cost of living, whilst cheaper than the UK is European and well above Malaysia. If you want to spend some of the time retirement affords you travelling, Malta is a poor starting point for anywhere except Europe. Most Europeans will not see this as an advantage but I can see the advantage to Americans and Aussies.

Epicurious

Retire in Asia – Retire in Taiwan

VISA EXEMPT ENTRY - Visa Services - Taipei Representative Office in the U.K. 駐英國台北代表處

You got me - there is no formal retirement visa along the lines of MM2H. UK citizens get 90 days visa free on entry, which can be extended by another 90 days. Eventually one would have to do a 'visa run'. I travel so much that that would not be an issue.

JC3

There's a lot of information on this subject at: FORUMOSA • Index page "Taiwan's largest online community in English" (Scroll down to the section entitled 'Legal / Via and Residency issues').

JC3

InVinoVeritas

A very interesting thread as well as interesting answers so far!

It is a bit of an academic exercise partly because we probably don’t all have quite the same priorities and partly because it risks becoming outdated fairly quickly.

The International Living 2016 Global Retirement Index could be a starting point but it is so American biased that it prioritises which places are nearer the US. I did look quite carefully at Panama some time ago which included 3 visits and meeting with lawyers, banks and schools (there are threads about this on BE) and one of the reasons I gave up on it was the difficulty of getting there from Europe. It’s understandable therefore why International Living’s list is not designed to suit our hemisphere.

The other starting point could be to look at why i/we have chosen Malaysia. At the risk of upsetting some member’s (but it’s only a personal view) I would not have chosen Malaysia had it not been for Penang. This may simply be because Penang is not the real Malaysia (which would be a fair comment) but the retirement visa programme (MM2H) itself, is a Malaysia-wide initiative. Having said that it seems it is only Penang where MM2H has really taken off. Here when you say you are an MM2Her it does actually mean something, you get respect, a sense of belonging - this does not seem to be the case anywhere else in Malaysia.

Aside from those considerations, there are some other things that make Penang desirable, which I would seek to replace in any Plan B:-

- An international airport with a good choice of destinations
- Modern medical facilities without waiting lists (let’s face it, at our age, we don’t have time to wait)
- Good and cheap eating out (we will want to cook less and less)
- Good shopping, open all hours (because we don’t really want to plan our day around this)
- People to meet (expats but especially Brits)
- Things to do (clubs, sports, cinema etc)
- Tax-friendly, lack of red tape
- Visa simplicity

Of course there are some things one might want to escape from, but that would be a Plan A rather than a Plan B.

So is there anywhere else in the world that provides these advantages. Probably not, but they need to be kept in mind as it’s to easy to take things for granted and then find we have given up something which was actually quite important.

All the suggestions, so far, fall short against my list (Taiwan probably by quite a margin).

Personally, I would be wary of anywhere that has recently launched retirement programmes, the one in Portugal for example has run into a lot of problems. The retirement market is being seen as a lucrative opportunity and a tempting solution for the dire economic problems in some host countries.

There should be no need to hold one’s investment portfolio in the host country and I would go so far as to say it is highly inadvisable to do so, Cyprus being a prime example. There are many highly experienced offshore financial centres which are more competent and better regulated. In the event of executing a Plan B or C it also makes a relocation much easier and less risky.

Finally, I would add that I would find it difficult to spend all my time in one country. For years I have lived in two countries and enjoyed that, the more different they are the more I like it. No doubt that will change as the years advance and the travelling becomes more challenging but it does at least mean that, for the moment, I have a sort of default Plan B should the doo-doo ever hit the fan That should, hopefully, give me enough time to put in place a proper Plan B.

JC3

Very interesting post IVV.

A book I found useful for initial research was The International Retirement Directory by David & Daniel Creffield, published by Millfield in 2010.
It's out of print now, and of course a bit out of date, but still useful as an eye-opener (for Brits) with a lowdown on over 60 countries, and an easy to read layout.

I remember it being quite expensive, and see used copies are £35+ on Amazon.

If you want one for UK£2.59 there's a single copy in the Bargain Bin at AwesomeBooks - Over 2 million new and used books at low prices with free shipping today. Better be quick!

JC3

bakedbean

I'm a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned Thailand.

We first retired to Phuket and managed two and a half years before escaping. It didn't really suit us. You never really know until you live somewhere, but it was a life experience at least.

I know of (off the top of my head) at least 3 couples who have recently moved from Penang to Chiang Mai (in northern Thailand). Actually 2 of those couples couldn't get MM2H. The other couple did have MM2H and chucked it in.

If things haven't changed, and I really haven't checked lately (so someone please correct me if I am wrong), but you can get the retirement visa fairly easily at age 50 and above. I'm not sure if you have to still put some money in the bank. It's not very much anyway. It is however renewable on a yearly basis, and have to report to Immigration every 90 days. We found this a real pain in the arse to do.

Thailand was and is a bit cheaper than Malaysia. Booze is certainly cheaper. The food is great of course. Great scenery too. The bureacracy is a bit trying at times.

Not for me but some may wish to put it on the Plan B list.