bakedbean

See my post # 12 above. It has always been rather ambiguous hence the confusions that go on year after year it seems.

Epicurious

Point taken, but the original purpose of the thread was to say that the rules are less stringent in East Malaysia. Hence I found IVV's reference to West Malaysia confusing. Presumably it was a typo and that is what I am seeking to clarify. IVV?

InVinoVeritas

No, it wasn't a typo, Epicurious. I went on the official MM2H portal (mm2h.gov.my) which was quite clear that for Peninsular/West Malaysia you now needed either to deposit RM150K or show RM10K pension per month (for over 50's).

The problem is, that according to Google, their site has been hacked now so I can't find the relevant text which I had copied and pasted into post #2.

Epicurious

That's potentially very good news for me. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.

SushiFan

To confuse matters even further: there are two places on the MM2H portal where they describe the financial requirements. To me these two pieces of text seem to contradict each other. On page Terms & Conditions - MM2H Official Portal :
text 1, at tab FINANCIAL REQUIREMENTS: text 2, at tab UPON APPROVAL: The first quote mentions "off shore income", whereas the second quote mentions "pension from government". All I know is that when I applied in May 2015 I had to do all of the above: proof of liquid assets available, and sufficient monthly income. And had to place the 150 k RM fixed deposit before picking up the MM2H visa.

Epicurious

Having looked at the official portal today, it seems that the confusion arises from the fact that the financial criteria differ between Upon Application and Upon Approval. Both sets of criteria must be met, so that proof of income will be required to obtain MM2H.

My reading convinces me that nothing has changed since SushiFan made his application.

bakedbean

Yeh but you are mixing apples and oranges here.

It's a two part process. It always has been.

First part is to prove your finances. Then, and only then, do you get informed of the requirements to actually get the visa stamped in passport.
On the Gov site will be the requirements as of today's date. That may not be the same as what you or I have in our previous letter. Things change.
The Conditional Approval Letter.
This letter is important and must be kept even after the visa is in passport.

It has always been the accepted opinion that, in future years, the conditions in that approval letter will apply to YOU in future renewals. Or, in other words, if requirements change in the future, your conditions in your letter will apply for you for the duration. That is the theory anyway.

SushiFan

BB, thank you for stressing the importance of that Conditional Acceptance Letter. It indeed lists what I needed to do and show in KL before they would put the actual MM2H in my passport. The letter I have does not mention anything about proof of income. It only mentions that I place a 150 k RM fixed deposit and show them a letter from the bank that this had been done. In my case I hope that I can re-use this letter if I want to renew my MM2H after the ten year period has ended.

RedApe

Remember that the Sarawak version of the MM2H doesn't allow individuals under 50 to apply...so the distinctions between the programs are mainly (for those over 50) procedurally about the same.

Sarawak "Applicants must show proof of monthly off shore income /pension funds of RM10,000 for married couples or RM7,000 for single applicants; OR
Open a fixed deposit account of RM150, 000 in a bank or financial institution for married couples or RM100, 000.00 for a single applicant."

Peninsular Malaysia: "Applicants aged 50 and above must show proof of liquid assets worth RM350, 000 and off shore income of RM10, 000 per month. Retirees are required to show proof of pension of RM 10,000 per month.
OR Open a fixed deposit account of RM150,000 after approval."

So both programs "allow" proof of offshore income/pension. It's just that the amount in Sarawak is RM 7000 FOR SINGLES and the Peninsula is RM10,000. ALTERNATIVELY one can open a fixed account...which is less FOR SINGLES in the Sarawak program.

I should point out that there is also an "age waiver" in the Sarawak program for 30 year old and above if they have children pursuing education or receiving long-term medical treatment in Sarawak. Theoretically one could enroll your child in the local international school and use this waiver.

Another apparent distinction is that one is "apparently" not allowed to work in the Sarawak program. One can do so, part-time, in the Peninsular program, with government permission.
But the conditions form for the Sarawak program actually says

"Successful applicant shall not, without permission in writing of the State Authority obtain any form of employment nor carry out any business while staying in Malaysia under this Programme. In addition, they shall not participate in activities that can be considered as sensitive to the local people and a threat to the security of the country."

So one theoretically CAN get permission to work or open a business IF one can justify it as valuable to the Sarawak government. If the Education Authority clears one to teach ESL or a specialized class at UNIMAS then it would likely be allowed.They might also allow a business if it generated employment and tax revenue (although one might then transfer into another Visa program).

The Sarawak MM2H "Comparison form" specifically states "The visa issued to Participants of the MM2H Sarawak programmed allows the participant to reside anywhere in Malaysia."

I think one is issued a Multiple-Entry Visa to Malaysia, so whether one is stamped as entering the peninsula from Malaysia or not wouldn't matter. Eventually, if they start issuing I-Kads they likely won't even stamp your passport...it'll just be a scan of the card. Sarawak doesn't issue "Visas" so you would get a Malaysian ME Visa.

This residency difference is, admittedly, an oddity (loophole). After all, why wouldn't people prefer to go through the Sarawak MM2H and then move to mainland Malaysia? They'd have the benefit of lower financial requirements, and perhaps even could establish a Fixed Deposit (at lower levels) and pull more out. The could have a FD in Sarawak at RM 60,000 eventually...if they went through the National program it's a balance of RM100,000 that must be maintained.

If they opt to buy land or a condo they'd still be subject to the higher Minimum Property purchase levels on the mainland, though. No escaping that. Cheaper in Sarawak (RM300,000 vs. RM500,00-RM 1 million).

Also you can't use an agent in Sarawak...which could result in additional problems if an individual applicant doesn't have their application documents all sorted out before entry. There is also the issue of finding a local Sarawak sponsor to make (or hold) the personal bond...and one cannot use someone in the Tourism Authority, Land Authority, or Government Health Services.

Fenella

Thanks for a great and very interesting summary RedApe! I take it you are living in Sarawak?

RedApe

I'm going "through" the process. I spoke with the One-Stop people in the Tourism Office last year and got an overview of what documentation I needed to do this on my own. My passport expires this year so I'll have a clean one coming in. It seems that my State University pension will clear the amount needed (with the decline of the Ringgit)...so no Fixed Deposit needed.

As an American I'll have to face some additional banking issues, though. While Singapore can accept my Social Security checks (when I decide to draw from that account), Malaysian banks are not part of the Treaty which allows automatic electronic deposit. So I'm wondering if a can get a CIMB or HSBC account and then have them deposited to a Singapore branch and use an ATM card in the local branches.

BTW I made some corrections...RE. the income requirements being less for SINGLE applicants in Sarawak.

SushiFan

What stops you from having a bank account in the USA or Singapore and then transfer funds into a Malaysian bank account using internet banking?

RedApe

Just more in transaction fees and daily limits. I'd have to carry around a bundle of cash removed over days or wire money with the wire fee and 1%+ cursency exchange fee.

I want could use an ATM but want to avoid the charge of US$5 per foreign ATM usage and a 1% Foreign Currency Fee. I could set up a Citibank account and transfer it into Singapore with no fees. I currently have a Bank of America account and most of my money is in a Credit Union which has no international reciprocal banks (in the US any CU allows no fee ATM use).

My thinking is that if I could establish an account in CIMB or HSBC Singapore for direct deposit of my US Social Security account I could then get an ATM card that could be used regionally. That's the thought, anyways.

SushiFan

I see. I keep most of my money outside Malaysia and transfer two/three times per year the amount I need for my living expenses to my Malaysian bank account. That works fine for me. Of course are some transfer commissions involved, but because I do this only a few times per year is that not such a burden to me.