NY-QC Border Crossings
Oct 14th 2002, 7:37 pm
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NY-QC Border Crossings
On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:49:38 +0100, "austin500"
wrote:
> I agree.Harassing 55 year old Canadians or Americans who have probably
> been crossing the border for 30 years is not going to stop terrorism.The
> answer whether you like it or not is profiling.Interrogate those most likely
> to commit the crime.Some nationalities are much more likely to commit crimes
> of terrorism than others.One of the requirements of a customs officer should
> be common sense.
Profiling can't be based solely on making assumptions about
nationalities. Most people of every nationality aren't terrorists, for
example, while Americans and British have been found to be terrorists.
So automatically interrogating all Saudis for 3 hours, for example,
and waving all Americans and Canadians through, wouldn't make any
sense. I understand that highly skilled customs agents can make
preliminary judgments about people by looking in their eyes and paying
attention to other body language.
Michael
wrote:
> I agree.Harassing 55 year old Canadians or Americans who have probably
> been crossing the border for 30 years is not going to stop terrorism.The
> answer whether you like it or not is profiling.Interrogate those most likely
> to commit the crime.Some nationalities are much more likely to commit crimes
> of terrorism than others.One of the requirements of a customs officer should
> be common sense.
Profiling can't be based solely on making assumptions about
nationalities. Most people of every nationality aren't terrorists, for
example, while Americans and British have been found to be terrorists.
So automatically interrogating all Saudis for 3 hours, for example,
and waving all Americans and Canadians through, wouldn't make any
sense. I understand that highly skilled customs agents can make
preliminary judgments about people by looking in their eyes and paying
attention to other body language.
Michael
Oct 14th 2002, 8:03 pm
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NY-QC Border Crossings
On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:04:48 GMT, John Beaderstadt
wrote:
>austin500 wrote:
>> Targetting and harassing 69 year old grandmothers from Duluth...
>Did I miss something? At what point did someone claim this was happening?
I have not heard about this, but I am a 72 year old grandmother and a
few years ago I was subjected to a hassle and more at a Canadian
border crossing near Vancouver. It is a long story but I was
traveling with a German national who was called in for an interview,
and an American national who was driving the car. We Americans
were then called in and interrogated on what grounds I have no idea.
Although I had credit cards and bank cards and a couple of hundred
dollars in cash, I was told I was refused entry until I obtained $400
and a bus ticket back to Seattle. So I did obtain the money, after
driving miles to a machine, rousted a Greyhound employee for a ticket,
and then, guess what? I was waved across the border with no one
tagging me again.
I don't hold a grudge against Canada for this -- but I guess it would
be interesting to know what triggered the custom agent's venom, for
she was not businesslike but truly vicious.
As they say, s*%@ happens.
wrote:
>austin500 wrote:
>> Targetting and harassing 69 year old grandmothers from Duluth...
>Did I miss something? At what point did someone claim this was happening?
I have not heard about this, but I am a 72 year old grandmother and a
few years ago I was subjected to a hassle and more at a Canadian
border crossing near Vancouver. It is a long story but I was
traveling with a German national who was called in for an interview,
and an American national who was driving the car. We Americans
were then called in and interrogated on what grounds I have no idea.
Although I had credit cards and bank cards and a couple of hundred
dollars in cash, I was told I was refused entry until I obtained $400
and a bus ticket back to Seattle. So I did obtain the money, after
driving miles to a machine, rousted a Greyhound employee for a ticket,
and then, guess what? I was waved across the border with no one
tagging me again.
I don't hold a grudge against Canada for this -- but I guess it would
be interesting to know what triggered the custom agent's venom, for
she was not businesslike but truly vicious.
As they say, s*%@ happens.
Oct 14th 2002, 11:33 pm
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NY-QC Border Crossings
Pan wrote:
> So automatically interrogating all Saudis for 3 hours, for example,
> and waving all Americans and Canadians through, wouldn't make any
> sense.
The simple fact is that profiling is a common tool, but it's
considerably more involved than our friend "Austin" seems to imagine.
What is generally forgotten by the critics is that terrorists do their
best to blend in and to appear legitimate. If they belong to some group
which is more likely to be suspect, they will try even harder to appear
innocent. You, yourself, come close to the mark when you say:
> I understand that highly skilled customs agents can make
> preliminary judgments about people by looking in their eyes and paying
> attention to other body language.
That skill, talent, whatever, is symbiotic with profiling; the two work
together. A third aspect is those rather innocuous and often
stupid-sounding questions, the unwittingly-fumbled answer to which can
give an experienced agent just the grounds he needs for a more thorough
inspection.
--
Beady's Eighth Law of Social Harmonics: "Avoid eye contact; shut up;
keep walking."
> So automatically interrogating all Saudis for 3 hours, for example,
> and waving all Americans and Canadians through, wouldn't make any
> sense.
The simple fact is that profiling is a common tool, but it's
considerably more involved than our friend "Austin" seems to imagine.
What is generally forgotten by the critics is that terrorists do their
best to blend in and to appear legitimate. If they belong to some group
which is more likely to be suspect, they will try even harder to appear
innocent. You, yourself, come close to the mark when you say:
> I understand that highly skilled customs agents can make
> preliminary judgments about people by looking in their eyes and paying
> attention to other body language.
That skill, talent, whatever, is symbiotic with profiling; the two work
together. A third aspect is those rather innocuous and often
stupid-sounding questions, the unwittingly-fumbled answer to which can
give an experienced agent just the grounds he needs for a more thorough
inspection.
--
Beady's Eighth Law of Social Harmonics: "Avoid eye contact; shut up;
keep walking."
Oct 15th 2002, 12:52 am
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NY-QC Border Crossings
On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:33:18 GMT, John Beaderstadt
wrote:
>Pan wrote:
>> So automatically interrogating all Saudis for 3 hours, for example,
>> and waving all Americans and Canadians through, wouldn't make any
>> sense.
>The simple fact is that profiling is a common tool, but it's
>considerably more involved than our friend "Austin" seems to imagine.
>What is generally forgotten by the critics is that terrorists do their
>best to blend in and to appear legitimate.
Yep.
> If they belong to some group
> which is more likely to be suspect, they will try even harder to appear
> innocent.
Right. And some are named John Smith and so forth.
> You, yourself, come close to the mark when you say:
> > I understand that highly skilled customs agents can make
>> preliminary judgments about people by looking in their eyes and paying
>> attention to other body language.
>That skill, talent, whatever, is symbiotic with profiling; the two work
>together. A third aspect is those rather innocuous and often
>stupid-sounding questions, the unwittingly-fumbled answer to which can
>give an experienced agent just the grounds he needs for a more thorough
>inspection.
That makes sense.
Michael
wrote:
>Pan wrote:
>> So automatically interrogating all Saudis for 3 hours, for example,
>> and waving all Americans and Canadians through, wouldn't make any
>> sense.
>The simple fact is that profiling is a common tool, but it's
>considerably more involved than our friend "Austin" seems to imagine.
>What is generally forgotten by the critics is that terrorists do their
>best to blend in and to appear legitimate.
Yep.
> If they belong to some group
> which is more likely to be suspect, they will try even harder to appear
> innocent.
Right. And some are named John Smith and so forth.
> You, yourself, come close to the mark when you say:
> > I understand that highly skilled customs agents can make
>> preliminary judgments about people by looking in their eyes and paying
>> attention to other body language.
>That skill, talent, whatever, is symbiotic with profiling; the two work
>together. A third aspect is those rather innocuous and often
>stupid-sounding questions, the unwittingly-fumbled answer to which can
>give an experienced agent just the grounds he needs for a more thorough
>inspection.
That makes sense.
Michael
Oct 15th 2002, 11:37 am
#20
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 31
Re: NY-QC Border Crossings
Dear Mr Know It All,
Making negative comments about the Irish,
Irish-Americans or Catholics Isn't very constructive,especially in a newsgroup dedicated to travel and tourism.
Got it Johnny boy?
Making negative comments about the Irish,
Irish-Americans or Catholics Isn't very constructive,especially in a newsgroup dedicated to travel and tourism.
Got it Johnny boy?
Oct 15th 2002, 5:24 pm
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: NY-QC Border Crossings
Fred_Scuttle wrote:
> Making negative comments about the Irish...
You're right. It's far better to restrict them to Arabs and Muslims.
--
Beady's Eighth Law of Social Harmonics: "Avoid eye contact; shut up;
keep walking."
> Making negative comments about the Irish...
You're right. It's far better to restrict them to Arabs and Muslims.
--
Beady's Eighth Law of Social Harmonics: "Avoid eye contact; shut up;
keep walking."
