Deep Flawed Muslim

Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
    > "Miss L. Toe" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > >I've heard Budapest is worth a visit (supposed to be nicer than Prague,
    > >which I didnt like).
    > >
    > Prague has the Old Town Square and Charles Bridge, which have high
    > visual impact, and which Budapest cannot quite match. Other than that,
    > in my book Budapest wins in every way -- particularly in its people,
    > who seem disposed to affability.

Yeah, I would place Budapest much higher on the list, as it has not
been destroyed by trashy tourism, yet. Also worthy of note is the
incredibly dry Hungarian sense of humour. When I asked a particularly
dour guy if the Danube Bend was worth visiting, he said in a
completely flat tone with a face devoid of any expression whatsoever
"Many people have found it quite enjoyable."

The Magyar are a strange breed, and you can't help but love them!
---
DFM

Deep Flawed Muslim

[email protected] (Paolo Tosolini) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > I'm working on a multimedia project that will collect images and tips
    > for
    > first time tourists going to Italy. As an italian living in US, I
    > understand
    > that many social and cultural aspects that I give for granted may
    > instead be
    > interesting to be aware of ahead of a trip to Italy.

Having just moved to Italy a few weeks ago, perhaps I can help with a
few that haven't been mentioned yet. These are purely from observance,
and may reflect the places I have been to, and people I have spent
time with.

1. When going into a shop, 'Ciao' is too informal, 'Buongiorno' is a
touch too formal, but 'Salve' is just right. Use it when begining and
ending the transaction.

2. Many toilet seats in restaurants appear to be purposefully ripped
off their hinges. In the last week, this appears to be a consistent
pattern, unless I am going to the wrong places.

3. "Buonissimo" is to be used to describe food. Chances are it will be
delicious enough to warrant this superlative.

4. Men with beards are usually over-affectionate, so get used to the
idea of having another mans whiskers against your face. This is
something I have yet to master.

5. The most highly esteemed personal trait you can possess in Italy is
to be 'simpatico', a word that doesn't appear to have an english
equivalent, but is somewhere between 'friendly' and 'witty'.

I can't help but feel that the Italians have the best lifestyle in the
world, but curiously many truly believe that life is better in other
countries. Anyhow, dinner is about to be served and could take hours
before it's finished, as usual.

Ciao, e buona fortuna!
---
DFM

Miss L. Toe

    > Anyhow, dinner is about to be served and could take hours
    > before it's finished, as usual.

So why are so few Italians overweight. with such wonderful food and so long
to eat ?

Or do the fat ones hide a lot ?

nitram

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:12:55 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Anyhow, dinner is about to be served and could take hours
    >> before it's finished, as usual.
    >So why are so few Italians overweight. with such wonderful food and so long
    >to eat ?
    >Or do the fat ones hide a lot ?

*The* fat one sings for his supper.

David Horne

Deep Flawed Muslim <[email protected]> wrote:

[]
    > Yeah, I would place Budapest much higher on the list, as it has not
    > been destroyed by trashy tourism, yet.

It does however seem set to become the new Prague, if you forgive the
cliché.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Randee

The main floor and staircases of the Rackham Graduate School at the
University of Michigan in Ann Arbor are made of Travertine, and I don't
recall ever seeing them sealed, just a mopping every day.

Karen Selwyn wrote:
    >

    >
    > I'm sure you're right. OTOH, I hope they're using a good sealant for
    > heavy-use installations made of travertine. I sure would hate to be
    > responsible for cleaning travertine floors and countertops unless the
    > pits and crevices are well sealed.
    >


--
wf.
Wayne Flowers
Randee Greenwald
[email protected]

Randee

Here are some that might surprise US and Canadian visitors:

1) Toilets - since somebody else mentioned these.......
a) the prevalence of what are usually called 'Turkish' toilets.
These are the porcelain, hole-in-the-floor, flushing toilets. We've not
seen any in hotels, but they seem to be common in train stations and
we've seen them in museums as well. The flush buttons can sometimes be
obscure. These are not for the infirm as I don't recall seeing any
handholds.
b) the ubiquitous toilet brush. Required since Italian toilets do
not have the extensive water area that North American toilets do, having
rather, a shelf.

2) Shop hours -
shops are generally open from 10 to 11 am and 2 to 4pm, and Never on
Sunday, and probably Never on Saturday, and probably Never on
Wednesday. The idea of being open 18 hours a day, or even 24/7 does not
seem to exist in Italy.

3) Water -
bottled water always seems to be ordered with every meal by
everybody, whether in a restaurant or cafeteria. I should note that
this tradition seems less pronounced from Bozen north.

4) Coffee -
far stronger and better than what is typically found in North
America, also don't forget to stand and drink it, otherwise it will cost
more. Also, as a corollary, Italians don't seem to eat heuvos rancheros
for breakfast.

5) Trains -
a) one could write volumes here. Suffice to say, be sure and find
the little yellow box to time stamp your ticket. Our first time in
Italy we were running late and I knew we had to do that, but I went all
up and down the platform without finding a machine. Of course we got
soundly scolded by the trainman on board. Needless to say, later I saw
many of the machines, but they were all by the ticket counter, not up on
the platform.
The idea of time stamping a ticket in a machine by the passenger is
unknown in North America. In North America ticket agent at the station
stamps it when you buy it. The trainman collects it, punches it, and
never looks at any time stamp.
b) Reserved specific day coach seats are another concept unknown
currently in the US (not sure about Canada). Regular and first class
coach seats used to be assigned in the US, but that practice disappeared
40 years ago. BTW, first class coach seats in North America used to be
individual parlor seats (they also disappeared 40 years ago). In Italy
there is not much distinction between the two classes.
c) train classes, such as R and IC. Be aware that when you buy a
ticket the agent will almost automatically give you the cheapest
ticket, This is for 2nd class on an R train; should you accidentally
get in the 2nd class section of an IC train, you will have to pay an
upgrade fee. Don't even think about getting on a Eurostar without a
reservation and knowing your ticket is good for that. Of course to many
people one train just looks like another.............

--
wf.
Wayne Flowers
Randee Greenwald
[email protected]


Paolo Tosolini wrote:
    >
    > I'd appreciate if you could share in this forum (or writing directly
    > to me)
    > what have been the surprising aspects of Italy that travel guides
    > didn't
    > quite tell you, or that just weren't documented well enough and you
    > wished somehow to have learnt about it before your trip. Thanks in
    > advance for your
    > feedback.

Derek McBryde

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:12:55 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Anyhow, dinner is about to be served and could take hours
    >> before it's finished, as usual.
    >So why are so few Italians overweight. with such wonderful food and so long
    >to eat ?

So that they can still wear sunglasses on their heads in the middle of
the night.

Derek

Derek McBryde

Two things that really surprised me in Italy were the drivers in Rome
and the food pricing structure in restaurants..

I was near St Peters in Rome on a multi-lane one-way road when a
driver actually stopped in the middle of the traffic and reversed back
against the traffic to a turn off he had missed. Didn't seem to
phase the other drivers but sure scared the hell out of me.

I went to a restaurant in one of the back streets near the Colosseum.
Ordered fish from the menu and only realised when the bill came that
it was priced per 100 grams and not as a meal. Nice meal but
it turned out to be much more expensive than planned.

In the Hotel Selene in Pomezia I was surprised by a nightly ritual in
the restaurant. On all the tables was an A4 sheet with what seemed
a very good menu with interesting selections at a very reasonable
price. However, each night the waiter removed this menu and give me an
A La Carte menu. I couldn't get any explanation from him as to why
I couldn't order from that menu. After a few days I decided I had to
know so enquired at the front desk. The response was "that is only
for local people, it's not good enough for tourists". Oh yeh?

Another surprising thing was the variable pricing structure here too.
Each night I helped myself to salad from the salad bar. I would
estimate the quantity was roughly the same each time but the bill was
never the same for this starter and varied quite a lot. I think they
just made up a value each time. I never got to the bottom of that
one.

However, on a more positive note - I had the best grilled calamari
that I have ever tasted in my life in that hotel. Absolutely
delicious. They could have put the price up on that and I still
would have enjoyed it.

Derek

B Vaughan

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:47:52 +0100,
[email protected] (David Horne) wrote:

    >B Vaughan <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> 4. If you need aspirin or something similar, you will only find it in
    >> a pharmacy, and it won't be displayed on a shelf. You have to ask for
    >> it. It might help to write the generic name of what you want on a
    >> piece of paper, e.g., "ibuprofen" rather than "Advil". Don't faint
    >> when you see the price.
    >How much is it? You can get 16 tablets for 25p in the bargain shops
    >here.

I don't remember, because for the past four years I've been stocking
up when I'm in the US.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

B Vaughan

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:55:18 -0600, randee <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Here are some that might surprise US and Canadian visitors:
    > a) the prevalence of what are usually called 'Turkish' toilets.
    > These are the porcelain, hole-in-the-floor, flushing toilets. We've not
    > seen any in hotels, but they seem to be common in train stations and
    > we've seen them in museums as well.

These are not at all common in Italy. I would say they are vastly
outnumbered even in train stations.

    > b) the ubiquitous toilet brush. Required since Italian toilets do
    >not have the extensive water area that North American toilets do, having
    >rather, a shelf.

Toilet brushes are used all over Europe, where it's considered crude
to leave traces of your turds behind for someone else to clean.

However, Italian toilets don't have a shelf, in general. In the small
German speaking region (Alto Adige), I've seen them. The shelf toilet
is typical of all Germanic-language countries, with the possible
exception of Scandinavia (I can't remember if they have them.)

    >2) Shop hours -
    > shops are generally open from 10 to 11 am and 2 to 4pm, and Never on

My experience has been 7:30 or 8 AM to 12:30 or 1, and again from 4:30
or 5 to 7:30 or 8. I've never seen a shop reopen at 2, when most
Italians are polishing off their lunch and getting ready for the
postprandial "pennichella". In any case the kind of short hours you're
indicating are nonexistent to my knowledge. No shop could survive
working 3 hours a day.

    >Sunday, and probably Never on Saturday, and probably Never on
    >Wednesday. The idea of being open 18 hours a day, or even 24/7 does not
    >seem to exist in Italy.

Almost all shops are open on Saturday. Most shops have either a
weekday morning or weekday afternoon when they stay closed. This is
usually the same in a given town for all shops of a certain category.
In my town, grocery stores are closed on Thursday afternoons, and most
other shops are closed on Monday mornings. In tourist areas
(especially beach resorts in the summer, but also in mountain towns in
high season) shops are often open also on Sunday. Big supermarkets
(ipermercati) usually don't close for lunch and are typically open 12
to 14 hours a day.

    >4) Coffee -
    > far stronger and better than what is typically found in North
    >America, also don't forget to stand and drink it, otherwise it will cost
    >more. Also, as a corollary, Italians don't seem to eat heuvos rancheros
    >for breakfast.

Except in tourist areas and really fancy bars (which generally can't
survive outside tourist areas), the extra cost for drinking your
coffee at a table is not customary. Usually, though, you're expected
to carry it to the table yourself. If you see tablecloths on the
table, it's probably a really fancy bar. Where I live, the barista
often brings our coffee to the table, but we always act really
surprised and say the Italian equivalent of "Oh, you shouldn't have!"


-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

David Horne

B Vaughan <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:47:52 +0100,
    > [email protected] (David Horne) wrote:
    >
    > >B Vaughan <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> 4. If you need aspirin or something similar, you will only find it in
    > >> a pharmacy, and it won't be displayed on a shelf. You have to ask for
    > >> it. It might help to write the generic name of what you want on a
    > >> piece of paper, e.g., "ibuprofen" rather than "Advil". Don't faint
    > >> when you see the price.
    > >
    > >How much is it? You can get 16 tablets for 25p in the bargain shops
    > >here.
    >
    > I don't remember, because for the past four years I've been stocking
    > up when I'm in the US.

I bought it in the US recently. Not because it was cheaper, but because
you can buy it in bigger amounts than packets of 16 bloody tablets!

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Dan Stephenson

Sure.

1) Naples street traffic. Only Istanbul is more dangerous (to
pedestrians).

2) Use of hands when speaking - many times I made myself understood
through sufficient gesturing when someone didn't speak English.

3) Gelato. Americans have no idea how awesome this is. I like
Chocolate and Raspberry.

4) There Is No Bad Food.

5) An Italian beckoned me toward him by holding his hand out palm down,
and moving his arm down. I thought he wanted me to sit.

Dan

In article <[email protected] >, Paolo
Tosolini <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I'm working on a multimedia project that will collect images and tips
    > for
    > first time tourists going to Italy. As an italian living in US, I
    > understand
    > that many social and cultural aspects that I give for granted may
    > instead be
    > interesting to be aware of ahead of a trip to Italy.
    >
    > The guides that I read so far are full of practical tips and addresses
    > about
    > where to stay and what to visit. But I've seen very little information
    > (and
    > pictures) that can really convey the idea of what is Italy like in the
    > streets, restaturants, the various variety of foods in the grocey
    > stores,
    > the size of cars, the scooter behaviour, etc.
    >
    > I'd appreciate if you could share in this forum (or writing directly
    > to me)
    > what have been the surprising aspects of Italy that travel guides
    > didn't
    > quite tell you, or that just weren't documented well enough and you
    > wished somehow to have learnt about it before your trip. Thanks in
    > advance for your
    > feedback.
    >
    > Paolo Tosolini
    > [email protected]

--
Dan Stephenson
Photos and movies from US Parks and all over Europe:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda

Magda

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:10:48 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, B Vaughan<[email protected]>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... My experience has been 7:30 or 8 AM to 12:30 or 1, and again from 4:30
... or 5 to 7:30 or 8. I've never seen a shop reopen at 2, when most
... Italians are polishing off their lunch and getting ready for the
... postprandial "pennichella".

Is it a southern word ? My aunt in Cremona would say "sonnellino".

Deep Flawed Muslim

"Miss L. Toe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Anyhow, dinner is about to be served and could take hours
    > > before it's finished, as usual.
    > >
    >
    > So why are so few Italians overweight. with such wonderful food and so long
    > to eat ?
    >
    > Or do the fat ones hide a lot ?

Another one of lifes great mysteries!!! They don't actually seem to
excercise a great deal either. Probably has a lot to do with the diet,
which is high in carbohydrates and low in fat too.

Another factor is that appearances are very important in Italy, and
people who have a bit too much weight find it difficult to look good,
due to the absence of a 'fat acceptance' culture, and thus clothing
that conceals flab.
---
DFM