Olivers

Donna Evleth extrapolated from data available...


    >
    > Perhaps I am just being naive, and don't know much. I would really
    > like to know why these things which strike me as balky, cumbersome and
    > theft-prone are so popular.
    >

That's my reaction.....

Something more than 4 decades ago, on my first Europen trip (before
affluence and all this modern paraphernalia), I noticed a number of
Europeans who carried exUSArmy gas mask bags, canvas, adjustable shoulder
strap and convenient size, millions left behind, instead of the
almost inevitable, especially among older men, leather briefcases, clumsy,
hard to carry and apparently heavy.

To me, the modern crop of modestly sized, light Cordura shoulder bags, big
enough for a small umbrella (out side straps are a good thing), rolled
water repellent jacket, cap(s), camera, maps, guides, etc., is a great
travel aid. I have several in assorted sizes, mostly samples and
giveaways, one of them, a convention handout, sized like a canvas
briefcase, but with hidden backpack straps if you just have to have both
hands for climbing.

That and a small rollerboard (checked at the US airport, to allow
the"Leatherman") can get me through two weeks in Europe. Several years
back, at a store closing, I bought a dozen medium quality small
- in odd bright "unsaleable" colors - rollerboards and a couple of dozen
imitation "Leatherman" small combo tools, originally to use as gifts. The
bags cost $10, the tools less than $2, among life's best investments, cheap
enough to lose or overlook damage. We always pack one or two of the
convention giveway cordura bags to handle the inevitable overflow on the
last days of a trip...presents, purchases, etc., and they can easily be
attached to the top of a rollerboard.

Wallets? a soft leather zipped pouch w/belt loop for extra cash,
credit/atm cards, tickets, etc. is more accessible than a money belt and
more comfortable. The "around the neck" models are good for passports, but
my favorite is hard to find, made like a police or gangster shoulder
holster out of soft leather with a belt attachment and several pockets, one
velco flap, one zipper.

Quick tip....any sport coat or jacket becomes a travel model by sewing or
even sticking (adhesive-backed) matching velcro patches to indside and
outside pockets. It's not just the modest potential for gypsy pickpockets
or Albanian gangs. Simple "fall out" is the most common cause of loss.

Useful travel accessory - also a popular giveaway at conventions and trade
shows - a small flashlight (with a new battery before departure). From
reading street maps at night to finding the john in the dark to the rare
but not unknown power outage, a valuable assist.

Leave your expensive watches at home. A cheap, glow in the dark model with
a comfortable, light band (I Like cordura w/velcro) repells thieves and
helps in EuroHotels, few of which feature bedside clocks.

TMO

Jesper Lauridsen

On 2004-05-17, Ruth <[email protected]> wrote:
    > In Europe, you buy the
    > ticket and then you MUST validate it in the little box behind the driver.

One of the "don't"s is starting a statement with "In Europe", especially
if you have seen only a limited part. _Very_ few things are true for all
of Europe, and public transport ticketing is very far from being one of
them.

Tim

"Björn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > B Vaughan wrote:
    > > On Mon, 17 May 2004 16:42:56 +0200, Björn Olsson <[email protected]>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>I mix up words a lot in languages that I don't know very well, which
    > >>sometimes make me seem like a complete idiot. One example was when I
    > >>opened the door to my train compartment on a russian train, found a guy
    > >>already sitting there, and greeted him with a loud and clear: "Do
    > >>zvedanja!" (i.e. "Goodbye!").
    > >
    > >
    > > When I was living in the Netherlands, I once replied, in Dutch, to
    > > someone on the street, "I'm sorry, I don't speak English very well."
    > I've replied to someone in France: "Je ne parlaiz Francois" and to
    > someone on a tram in Russia (in russian): "You don't speak russian very
    > well".

I'm sure he took it the way it was meant.

I once spent a whole train journey in Italy with someone
who swapped 'you' and 'I'. It was extreamly hard to
converse with him.

(And now, I often, use Ich when I mean it, I just can't get
used to this 'he' and she' stuff, and most of the Germans I
work with translate back into he and she rather than it)

tim


    > Bjorn

Tim

"erilar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:erilarloFRY-8E6424.222754170520...streamcomm.net...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "tim"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > "Tim Challenger" <"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"> wrote in
message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > On Mon, 17 May 2004 14:11:54 GMT, Ruth wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Honestly the worst pizzas I had were in Italy and the best were in
    > > France.
    > > > That's what I find as well. I often finds the Italian ones soggy with
    > > > watery toppings.
    > >
    > > You've obviously become too used to what passes for pizza in Germany
    > Tastes vary 8-) Some of the best pizzas I've ever had were in Germany...

perhaps.

after a dozen or so awful ones (often in resturants run by italians),
I've given up looking.

The lack of mozzarella doesn't help, but isn't the main fault.
I just can't understand why they use other cheese, I can get
mozzarella in the local supermarket at a sensible price, I'm
sure they can too.

tim

    > --
    > Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)
    > You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument
    > is that reason doesn't count. Isaac Asimov
    > Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Tim Challenger

On Tue, 18 May 2004 19:35:54 +0200, tim wrote:

    > "Björn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> B Vaughan wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 17 May 2004 16:42:56 +0200, Björn Olsson <[email protected]>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>>I mix up words a lot in languages that I don't know very well, which
    >>>>sometimes make me seem like a complete idiot. One example was when I
    >>>>opened the door to my train compartment on a russian train, found a guy
    >>>>already sitting there, and greeted him with a loud and clear: "Do
    >>>>zvedanja!" (i.e. "Goodbye!").
    >>> When I was living in the Netherlands, I once replied, in Dutch, to
    >>> someone on the street, "I'm sorry, I don't speak English very well."
    >> I've replied to someone in France: "Je ne parlaiz Francois" and to
    >> someone on a tram in Russia (in russian): "You don't speak russian very
    >> well".
    >
    > I'm sure he took it the way it was meant.
    >
    > I once spent a whole train journey in Italy with someone
    > who swapped 'you' and 'I'. It was extreamly hard to
    > converse with him.
    >
    > (And now, I often, use Ich when I mean it, I just can't get
    > used to this 'he' and she' stuff, and most of the Germans I
    > work with translate back into he and she rather than it)


Yes, the Germans often can't get the hang of this 'it' stuff either. The
gender of words is so vital to the language that they have trouble thinking
out of it. Just as much trouble as we do trying to get in to it.

--
Tim C.

The Reids

Following up to Donna Evleth

    >I have never understood the popularity of daypacks, although I am quite
    >willing to listen to explanations. For me, daypacks present a lot of
    >problems. First of all, you wear them on your back. That means that they
    >are easily accessible to people who come up behind you (our nephew had just
    >that problem, here in Paris). But this is not the worst. You can't sit
    >down in them. You have to take them off, and put them on a chair or some
    >other place next to you. They are thus an easy target for thieves.

they are designed for long distance walkers and are good for
purpose, not so good for cities. But they remain the easiest way
to carry a heavy load wherever you are.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

A.Spencer3

The Reids <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Following up to Donna Evleth
    > >I have never understood the popularity of daypacks, although I am quite
    > >willing to listen to explanations. For me, daypacks present a lot of
    > >problems. First of all, you wear them on your back. That means that
they
    > >are easily accessible to people who come up behind you (our nephew had
just
    > >that problem, here in Paris). But this is not the worst. You can't sit
    > >down in them. You have to take them off, and put them on a chair or some
    > >other place next to you. They are thus an easy target for thieves.
    > they are designed for long distance walkers and are good for
    > purpose, not so good for cities. But they remain the easiest way
    > to carry a heavy load wherever you are.
    > --

Some years ago I simply converted from small rucksacks to cargo trousers. By
far the easiest except for larger loads.
Tend now to wear them daily in UK, too, they're so convenient.

Surreyman

The Reids

Following up to a.spencer3

    >> they are designed for long distance walkers and are good for
    >> purpose, not so good for cities. But they remain the easiest way
    >> to carry a heavy load wherever you are.
    >> --
    >Some years ago I simply converted from small rucksacks to cargo trousers. By
    >far the easiest except for larger loads.
    >Tend now to wear them daily in UK, too, they're so convenient.

I cant get on with them at all, I find the leg restriction an
irritation, but there we go.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

John Bermont

Donna Evleth wrote:
    >
    > Dans l'article <KK3qc.509685$oR5.475844@pd7tw3no>, "Ruth" <[email protected]>
    > a écrit :
    >
    >
    >
    >>Security.
    >> - I got robbed in Barcelona. I was warned, I was aware, but it still
    >>happened. I let my day pack sit on a chair beside me in a cafe in the
    >>TransMediterranea terminal while I was having a coffee with my wife. When I
    >>got up to leave, I found it had left before me with someone else. Lost a
    >>camera, tickets and travel documents. Was able to recover from it but wasted
    >>a lot of time and energy doing so. The theives there are really effective.
    >
    >
    > I have never understood the popularity of daypacks, although I am quite
    > willing to listen to explanations. For me, daypacks present a lot of
    > problems. First of all, you wear them on your back. That means that they
    > are easily accessible to people who come up behind you (our nephew had just
    > that problem, here in Paris). But this is not the worst. You can't sit
    > down in them. You have to take them off, and put them on a chair or some
    > other place next to you. They are thus an easy target for thieves.
    >
    > Why does one need such a large bag when one is out sightseeing? Can't you
    > just leave most of your stuff in the hotel, hostel, whatever? And isn't
    > there some smaller, safer place to put travel documents, on your person?
    >
    > Perhaps I am just being naive, and don't know much. I would really like to
    > know why these things which strike me as balky, cumbersome and theft-prone
    > are so popular.
    >
    > Donna Evleth
    >

I've used a day bag since my earliest days of traveling in Europe. It's
a shoulder bag for me, not a back pack. I carry extra film, maps,
guidebooks, roll of TP, and other miscellany that is too big for my
pockets. I keep my camera on a strap around my neck. Never put valuables
in your day bag.

I was at a flower show in Chicago last month and came across a company
selling totes. They had one style that would seem to be a good day bag.
It's called a "messenger bag." I tried one on and it fits comfortably
with a sort of body contour design. Take a look at them on their site at
http://www.totesonwheels.com/Messenger_Bags_Medium.html
I have not done business with them but mention this only for
information. I plan to buy one prior to my next trip.

John Bermont
--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------

Bb

On Wed, 19 May 2004 12:56:55 GMT, John Bermont wrote:
    >
    > I was at a flower show in Chicago last month and came across a company
    > selling totes. They had one style that would seem to be a good day bag.
    > It's called a "messenger bag." I tried one on and it fits comfortably
    > with a sort of body contour design. Take a look at them on their site at
    > http://www.totesonwheels.com/Messenger_Bags_Medium.html
    > I have not done business with them but mention this only for
    > information. I plan to buy one prior to my next trip.

Messenger bags were originally used by bike messengers - the better ones
still have a strap that goes across your chest and snaps in the other
side. A little hard to describe, but essentially it allows you to keep the
bag on your back (rather than slipping down to dangle off your neck) when
bicycling (obviously a plus if you plan on doing any biking). The better
ones also are extremely tough, originally designed for carrying heavy
loads of paper on a daily basis. They're designed not to open easily, and
often have huge strips of velcro that make them impossible to open quietly
- this also makes it difficult for someone to sneak a peek quietly.

Timbuk2 is probably the best-known brand. I keep saying "better ones"
because there have been a lot of cheap knock-offs lately. But even some of
the knock-offs are fairly well built.

I have a couple of various-sized messenger bags and use them for bike
errands as well as non-biking trips. My daughter also uses them for
various things. The daypacks have all ended up in the closet.

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

Steve

That bag looks very interesting... I started another thread here because I
am looking for a new bag, and there aren't many options out there for this
size. One thing though, the bag doesn't seem ambidextrous - with the cell
phone pocket and all.




    > I've used a day bag since my earliest days of traveling in Europe. It's
    > a shoulder bag for me, not a back pack. I carry extra film, maps,
    > guidebooks, roll of TP, and other miscellany that is too big for my
    > pockets. I keep my camera on a strap around my neck. Never put valuables
    > in your day bag.
    > I was at a flower show in Chicago last month and came across a company
    > selling totes. They had one style that would seem to be a good day bag.
    > It's called a "messenger bag." I tried one on and it fits comfortably
    > with a sort of body contour design. Take a look at them on their site at
    > http://www.totesonwheels.com/Messenger_Bags_Medium.html
    > I have not done business with them but mention this only for
    > information. I plan to buy one prior to my next trip.
    > John Bermont
    > --
    > ------------------------------------------------------
    > * * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
    > http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
    > ------------------------------------------------------

Erilar

In article <d8fqc.488214$Pk3.178379@pd7tw1no>, "Ruth"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Granted my passport should have been in my money belt, but it might be a
    > bit much to have travel tickets jammed in there as well as bills, credit
    > cards and other ID.
    >

There are people who don't know that? Those are items I don't carry in
anything that can be detached from my body while I'm conscious.

--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument
is that reason doesn't count. Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Miguel Cruz

B Vaughan <[email protected]> wrote:
    > When I was living in the Netherlands, I once replied, in Dutch, to
    > someone on the street, "I'm sorry, I don't speak English very well."

Once upon a time, when a vending machine in Mexico gave me Coke (ugh!)
instead of apple soda, I brought the can inside the store and declared in my
best Spanish to the person working at the counter, "I asked the machine for
an apple drink and it gave me Coke, but I don't like Coke."

She looked at me quizzically. I repeated. She giggled. Then I realized I'd
been saying, "I asked the machine for an apple drink and it gave me Coke,
and I don't like you!"

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Miguel Cruz

NoNameAtAll <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Thanks for sharing your experiences. Sounds like you had a nice little
    > adventure. With regard to protecting bags against theft while traveling, I
    > always wrap the strap around my ankle while I'm sitting so no one can
    > swipe it. My wife always thinks I'm being paranoid, but now I can tell her
    > your story to redeem myself.

I do the same thing, and nobody's ever stolen my bag either. I think we're
onto something.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Tim Challenger

On Tue, 25 May 2004 08:30:50 GMT, Miguel Cruz wrote:

    > B Vaughan <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> When I was living in the Netherlands, I once replied, in Dutch, to
    >> someone on the street, "I'm sorry, I don't speak English very well."
    >
    > Once upon a time, when a vending machine in Mexico gave me Coke (ugh!)
    > instead of apple soda, I brought the can inside the store and declared in my
    > best Spanish to the person working at the counter, "I asked the machine for
    > an apple drink and it gave me Coke, but I don't like Coke."
    >
    > She looked at me quizzically. I repeated. She giggled. Then I realized I'd
    > been saying, "I asked the machine for an apple drink and it gave me Coke,
    > and I don't like you!"

<Grin>
Luckily she saw the funny side of it. Too many people nowadays would shoot
first... :-(
--
Tim C.