what language is most useful to learn?
Feb 10th 2004 | 8:21 pm
#16
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Posts: n/a
Re: what language is most useful to learn?
"Tony Day" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "*Tom*" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > I speak English, but I am wondering if I
> > > should learn another language to make my trip more memorable.
> >
> >
> > In what year do you want to go?
> >
> > Just learn to speak slow english
> > Most people you have to talk to in Europe do understand and speak English.
> >
> > Tom [NL]
>
> Well, this newsgroup usually comes up with sound advice, but it seems to
> have got a mental block on this one. Tom comes nearest!
>
> Rather than learn a second "second language" - with severe diminishing
> returns as you are already fluent in an equally useful one, why not learn
> basic phrases in each of the countries you visit (you can often almost do
> this whilst waiting to clear passport control!) Most nationals would far
> rather be greeted in their own tongue than English or German (and certainly
> not Russian!) They will appreciate your effort, know by your accent that
> you are not a native speaker, and most will try to help you by trying out on
> you any other language they have - most probably English or German.
>
> Just my own experience.
How true!
Even assuming that there will be no major problem communicating
in English especially with young people from the countries listed
in the original posting (Hungary, Slovakia, Poland) its imho
always an advantage to have at least some basic knowledge of the
language used in a region you visit.
And to my experience leaving tourist or business areas means
often enough that you will meet people speaking only their
own language - usually much easier if you speak also their
language or travel with someone also knowing it.
So if you have the possibility, try to learn as much of the
language you can for a specific region, but at least what
I would consider basic expressions and sentences such as
greetings, "sorry, I dont speak ....., only ...., ....",
"please" and "thank you".
Preparing myself a trip to Slovakia, I found several useful
sites, like
http://www.slovak.com/language/
http://www.slovnik.psg.sk/
J.E.(Hans)Rotzetter jer(at)iprolink.ch
> "*Tom*" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > I speak English, but I am wondering if I
> > > should learn another language to make my trip more memorable.
> >
> >
> > In what year do you want to go?
> >
> > Just learn to speak slow english
> > Most people you have to talk to in Europe do understand and speak English.
> >
> > Tom [NL]
>
> Well, this newsgroup usually comes up with sound advice, but it seems to
> have got a mental block on this one. Tom comes nearest!
>
> Rather than learn a second "second language" - with severe diminishing
> returns as you are already fluent in an equally useful one, why not learn
> basic phrases in each of the countries you visit (you can often almost do
> this whilst waiting to clear passport control!) Most nationals would far
> rather be greeted in their own tongue than English or German (and certainly
> not Russian!) They will appreciate your effort, know by your accent that
> you are not a native speaker, and most will try to help you by trying out on
> you any other language they have - most probably English or German.
>
> Just my own experience.
How true!
Even assuming that there will be no major problem communicating
in English especially with young people from the countries listed
in the original posting (Hungary, Slovakia, Poland) its imho
always an advantage to have at least some basic knowledge of the
language used in a region you visit.
And to my experience leaving tourist or business areas means
often enough that you will meet people speaking only their
own language - usually much easier if you speak also their
language or travel with someone also knowing it.
So if you have the possibility, try to learn as much of the
language you can for a specific region, but at least what
I would consider basic expressions and sentences such as
greetings, "sorry, I dont speak ....., only ...., ....",
"please" and "thank you".
Preparing myself a trip to Slovakia, I found several useful
sites, like
http://www.slovak.com/language/
http://www.slovnik.psg.sk/
J.E.(Hans)Rotzetter jer(at)iprolink.ch
Feb 11th 2004 | 1:08 am
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: what language is most useful to learn?
Lennart Petersen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> For people older than 30-40, Russian will probably be the most
>> common second language.
> Trying to speak russian in those countries is just rudeness, simply the got
> enough of it.
Russian has its uses, although I wouldn't try it as the first language
of choice in Eastern Europe, and certainly not without first asking
whether or not they speak it. First of all, it is the most common
second language for people over 30, and after you try English with
someone and fail they usually don't mind you switching to Russian.
Second, it works very well after you find "mistakes" in your restaurant
bill: switching to Russian after that tends to shock people.
But it's always better to try English first.
--
Vera Izrailit
>> For people older than 30-40, Russian will probably be the most
>> common second language.
> Trying to speak russian in those countries is just rudeness, simply the got
> enough of it.
Russian has its uses, although I wouldn't try it as the first language
of choice in Eastern Europe, and certainly not without first asking
whether or not they speak it. First of all, it is the most common
second language for people over 30, and after you try English with
someone and fail they usually don't mind you switching to Russian.
Second, it works very well after you find "mistakes" in your restaurant
bill: switching to Russian after that tends to shock people.
But it's always better to try English first.
--
Vera Izrailit
Feb 12th 2004 | 9:18 pm
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: what language is most useful to learn?
[email protected] (forgotten field) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> Hi, I am hoping to travel in the Eastern Europe, such as
> Hungary,Slovakia and Poland. I speak English, but I am wondering if I
> should learn another language to make my trip more memorable. What
> language do you think I should learn? I also wonder if you have any
> opinion on which country is good to travel in Europe. I don't have a
> lot of money, so I would need to stay at the hostels most of the time
> during the trip.
> Thank you, and have a good day.
As a native Hungarian, I think you should learn German. In Hungary
(just like in other parts of Eastern Europe) you should be perfectly
get along with German and English. In Hungary however, don't even try
to use Russian. In slavic countries maybe they would understand you,
but Hungarian language is just too different, and Russian isn't tought
for 15 years now in any school, maybe 1 in a thousand will speak it.
However, German and English are spoken by around 80% of people under
30, the younger the better.
For the financial part: I think you won't have any financial problems
in Eastern Europe, it's significantly cheaper than western countries.
Try shopping your food at supermarkets (tesco, spar, etc. they are the
cheapest. in Hungary tesco's are open 24h). smaller groceries and
tourist spots are a bit more expensive. Slovakia is a bit cheaper than
Hungary, Poland is a bit more expensive. The Czech republic and
Slovenia are nearly western european by the pricing. However, by May
1st, most East European countries will join the European Union, so
prices may go up a bit, but that's unforseen by now.
have fun! (and feel free to ask me in e-mail if you have further
questions)
frank
www.plitkorn.com
> Hi, I am hoping to travel in the Eastern Europe, such as
> Hungary,Slovakia and Poland. I speak English, but I am wondering if I
> should learn another language to make my trip more memorable. What
> language do you think I should learn? I also wonder if you have any
> opinion on which country is good to travel in Europe. I don't have a
> lot of money, so I would need to stay at the hostels most of the time
> during the trip.
> Thank you, and have a good day.
As a native Hungarian, I think you should learn German. In Hungary
(just like in other parts of Eastern Europe) you should be perfectly
get along with German and English. In Hungary however, don't even try
to use Russian. In slavic countries maybe they would understand you,
but Hungarian language is just too different, and Russian isn't tought
for 15 years now in any school, maybe 1 in a thousand will speak it.
However, German and English are spoken by around 80% of people under
30, the younger the better.
For the financial part: I think you won't have any financial problems
in Eastern Europe, it's significantly cheaper than western countries.
Try shopping your food at supermarkets (tesco, spar, etc. they are the
cheapest. in Hungary tesco's are open 24h). smaller groceries and
tourist spots are a bit more expensive. Slovakia is a bit cheaper than
Hungary, Poland is a bit more expensive. The Czech republic and
Slovenia are nearly western european by the pricing. However, by May
1st, most East European countries will join the European Union, so
prices may go up a bit, but that's unforseen by now.
have fun! (and feel free to ask me in e-mail if you have further
questions)
frank
www.plitkorn.com
Feb 13th 2004 | 7:08 am
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: what language is most useful to learn?
"nightjar" <nightjar@<insert_my_surname_here> wrote:
> However, unless you get quite good at your chosen second language, you may
> find it difficult to understand someone who is also speaking it as a second
> language.
My experience is the opposite. I find that people who are both speaking
a second language can converse easily, because they both have limited
vocabulary and basic grammar. So everything one of them says can easily
be understood by the other.
> However, unless you get quite good at your chosen second language, you may
> find it difficult to understand someone who is also speaking it as a second
> language.
My experience is the opposite. I find that people who are both speaking
a second language can converse easily, because they both have limited
vocabulary and basic grammar. So everything one of them says can easily
be understood by the other.
Feb 13th 2004 | 8:45 am
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: what language is most useful to learn?
In news:1g8yupq.1c7l0tgabuqjgN%[email protected],
Tim Vanhoof <[email protected]> typed:
> "nightjar" <nightjar@<insert_my_surname_here> wrote:
>> However, unless you get quite good at your chosen second
language,
>> you may find it difficult to understand someone who is also
speaking
>> it as a second language.
> My experience is the opposite. I find that people who are both
> speaking a second language can converse easily, because they
both
> have limited vocabulary and basic grammar. So everything one of
them
> says can easily be understood by the other.
I'm with you. I know a little Italian, but I'm very far from a
native speaker. The speakers of Italian I understand the best are
those who know a similar amount to what I know.
--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup
Tim Vanhoof <[email protected]> typed:
> "nightjar" <nightjar@<insert_my_surname_here> wrote:
>> However, unless you get quite good at your chosen second
language,
>> you may find it difficult to understand someone who is also
speaking
>> it as a second language.
> My experience is the opposite. I find that people who are both
> speaking a second language can converse easily, because they
both
> have limited vocabulary and basic grammar. So everything one of
them
> says can easily be understood by the other.
I'm with you. I know a little Italian, but I'm very far from a
native speaker. The speakers of Italian I understand the best are
those who know a similar amount to what I know.
--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup
Feb 13th 2004 | 10:18 am
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: what language is most useful to learn?
"Tim Vanhoof" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:1g8yupq.1c7l0tgabuqjgN%[email protected]...
> "nightjar" <nightjar@<insert_my_surname_here> wrote:
> > However, unless you get quite good at your chosen second language, you
may
> > find it difficult to understand someone who is also speaking it as a
second
> > language.
> My experience is the opposite. I find that people who are both speaking
> a second language can converse easily, because they both have limited
> vocabulary and basic grammar. So everything one of them says can easily
> be understood by the other.
Agree, and that's also my experience. Especially English as those having
learnt it as secondary language usually have the same vocabulary more or
less while native Englishspeakers may use little used words sometimes very
local.
In this n.g there's rarely a problem to read non natives ads, assuming
they've basic or good knowledge of English, while native English speaker
sometimes produces words or expressions not to be found in an ordinary
dictionary.
L.P
news:1g8yupq.1c7l0tgabuqjgN%[email protected]...
> "nightjar" <nightjar@<insert_my_surname_here> wrote:
> > However, unless you get quite good at your chosen second language, you
may
> > find it difficult to understand someone who is also speaking it as a
second
> > language.
> My experience is the opposite. I find that people who are both speaking
> a second language can converse easily, because they both have limited
> vocabulary and basic grammar. So everything one of them says can easily
> be understood by the other.
Agree, and that's also my experience. Especially English as those having
learnt it as secondary language usually have the same vocabulary more or
less while native Englishspeakers may use little used words sometimes very
local.
In this n.g there's rarely a problem to read non natives ads, assuming
they've basic or good knowledge of English, while native English speaker
sometimes produces words or expressions not to be found in an ordinary
dictionary.
L.P
Feb 13th 2004 | 10:24 am
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: what language is most useful to learn?
[email protected] (Tim Vanhoof) wrote in
news:1g8yupq.1c7l0tgabuqjgN%[email protected]:
> "nightjar" <nightjar@<insert_my_surname_here> wrote:
>
>
>> However, unless you get quite good at your chosen second language,
>> you may find it difficult to understand someone who is also speaking
>> it as a second language.
>
> My experience is the opposite. I find that people who are both
> speaking a second language can converse easily, because they both have
> limited vocabulary and basic grammar. So everything one of them says
> can easily be understood by the other.
>
Add a me too here. In Vietnam I had an interpreter who was Chinese
vietnamese, learned Vietnamese when he was drafted. We would converse
for hours in "Vietnamese" and no one had the slightest idea about what
we were saying. We just spoke right through our accents.
news:1g8yupq.1c7l0tgabuqjgN%[email protected]:
> "nightjar" <nightjar@<insert_my_surname_here> wrote:
>
>
>> However, unless you get quite good at your chosen second language,
>> you may find it difficult to understand someone who is also speaking
>> it as a second language.
>
> My experience is the opposite. I find that people who are both
> speaking a second language can converse easily, because they both have
> limited vocabulary and basic grammar. So everything one of them says
> can easily be understood by the other.
>
Add a me too here. In Vietnam I had an interpreter who was Chinese
vietnamese, learned Vietnamese when he was drafted. We would converse
for hours in "Vietnamese" and no one had the slightest idea about what
we were saying. We just spoke right through our accents.
Feb 13th 2004 | 5:41 pm
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: what language is most useful to learn?
On 13/2/04 23:18, in article [email protected],
"Lennart Petersen" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> My experience is the opposite. I find that people who are both speaking
>> a second language can converse easily, because they both have limited
>> vocabulary and basic grammar. So everything one of them says can easily
>> be understood by the other.
> Agree, and that's also my experience. Especially English as those having
> learnt it as secondary language usually have the same vocabulary more or
> less while native Englishspeakers may use little used words sometimes very
> local.
All I can say is that in 1965 I stayed with a Swiss woman (a former Czech
who had worked for my grandfather and learned English from him, who had
learned it as a second language while working briefly in England). She was
one of the least intelligent persons I had met up to that time, but she had
an uncanny ability to pick up languages (she spoke Swiss German perfectly).
She had a boyfriend, an Italian who had lived in Switzerland as guest worker
ten years and spoke no German. She had learned Italian from him. I spoke no
Italian, so spoke to him in Spanish (I speak French and can speak tourist
Spanish). He understood me, and he replied using Italian words that I could
understand in return. The woman, however, could understand him but not me.
Just an anecdote that proves little. Interesting, I think, nonetheless.
As for what language to learn: it depends for what purpose. Esperanto will
get you into a subculture where you will never be alone, wherever you
travel. Chinese is good, but is best learnt at your mother's knee. (My first
boss, who was born and lives in Hawaii, did that; since he retired he's
taken to traveling to China regularly.) An English friend of my daughter
(who attended the Lycée with her) who lives in London and is married to a
Japanese chef is teaching her kids English, Japanese and French, all at
once.
"Lennart Petersen" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> My experience is the opposite. I find that people who are both speaking
>> a second language can converse easily, because they both have limited
>> vocabulary and basic grammar. So everything one of them says can easily
>> be understood by the other.
> Agree, and that's also my experience. Especially English as those having
> learnt it as secondary language usually have the same vocabulary more or
> less while native Englishspeakers may use little used words sometimes very
> local.
All I can say is that in 1965 I stayed with a Swiss woman (a former Czech
who had worked for my grandfather and learned English from him, who had
learned it as a second language while working briefly in England). She was
one of the least intelligent persons I had met up to that time, but she had
an uncanny ability to pick up languages (she spoke Swiss German perfectly).
She had a boyfriend, an Italian who had lived in Switzerland as guest worker
ten years and spoke no German. She had learned Italian from him. I spoke no
Italian, so spoke to him in Spanish (I speak French and can speak tourist
Spanish). He understood me, and he replied using Italian words that I could
understand in return. The woman, however, could understand him but not me.
Just an anecdote that proves little. Interesting, I think, nonetheless.
As for what language to learn: it depends for what purpose. Esperanto will
get you into a subculture where you will never be alone, wherever you
travel. Chinese is good, but is best learnt at your mother's knee. (My first
boss, who was born and lives in Hawaii, did that; since he retired he's
taken to traveling to China regularly.) An English friend of my daughter
(who attended the Lycée with her) who lives in London and is married to a
Japanese chef is teaching her kids English, Japanese and French, all at
once.
Mar 5th 2004 | 1:46 am
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: what language is most useful to learn?
[email protected] (forgotten field) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> Hi, I am hoping to travel in the Eastern Europe, such as
> Hungary,Slovakia and Poland. I speak English, but I am wondering if I
> should learn another language to make my trip more memorable. What
> language do you think I should learn?
Slovak. Easiest of the three to pronounce, and has sufficient
similarities both to Polish and to Czech.
There is a good course of Colloquial Slovak, available from Routledge.
I am myself fluent in Polish, and seriously try to master the other
two.
> Hi, I am hoping to travel in the Eastern Europe, such as
> Hungary,Slovakia and Poland. I speak English, but I am wondering if I
> should learn another language to make my trip more memorable. What
> language do you think I should learn?
Slovak. Easiest of the three to pronounce, and has sufficient
similarities both to Polish and to Czech.
There is a good course of Colloquial Slovak, available from Routledge.
I am myself fluent in Polish, and seriously try to master the other
two.
Mar 5th 2004 | 1:47 am
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: what language is most useful to learn?
"Keith Willshaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Alec" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
>
> > >
> > German and perhaps Russian.
> > Eastern Europe, except in most popular places like Prague and Krakow, is a
> > lot cheaper than Western Europe, esp Rumania, Bulgaria, Ukraine.
> >
>
> I wouldnt recommend Russian in the old Warsaw Pact
> countries.
It is advisable to speak an atrocious pidgin Russian and try to pick
up as many local words as possible.
> "Alec" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
>
> > >
> > German and perhaps Russian.
> > Eastern Europe, except in most popular places like Prague and Krakow, is a
> > lot cheaper than Western Europe, esp Rumania, Bulgaria, Ukraine.
> >
>
> I wouldnt recommend Russian in the old Warsaw Pact
> countries.
It is advisable to speak an atrocious pidgin Russian and try to pick
up as many local words as possible.
Mar 6th 2004 | 10:21 am
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: what language is most useful to learn?
[email protected] (Panu H?glund) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> [email protected] (forgotten field) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]. com>...
>> Hi, I am hoping to travel in the Eastern Europe, such as
>> Hungary,Slovakia and Poland. I speak English, but I am wondering if I
>> should learn another language to make my trip more memorable. What
>> language do you think I should learn?
> Slovak. Easiest of the three to pronounce, and has sufficient
> similarities both to Polish and to Czech.
> There is a good course of Colloquial Slovak, available from Routledge.
> I am myself fluent in Polish, and seriously try to master the other
> two.
Yes it seems to be sound advice. Using Polish worked pretty well while in
Prague, but those easiest to understand were people that had moved there
from Slovakia.
/Tommy Petersson
news:[email protected]:
> [email protected] (forgotten field) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]. com>...
>> Hi, I am hoping to travel in the Eastern Europe, such as
>> Hungary,Slovakia and Poland. I speak English, but I am wondering if I
>> should learn another language to make my trip more memorable. What
>> language do you think I should learn?
> Slovak. Easiest of the three to pronounce, and has sufficient
> similarities both to Polish and to Czech.
> There is a good course of Colloquial Slovak, available from Routledge.
> I am myself fluent in Polish, and seriously try to master the other
> two.
Yes it seems to be sound advice. Using Polish worked pretty well while in
Prague, but those easiest to understand were people that had moved there
from Slovakia.
/Tommy Petersson
