Andrea

Hi everybody..I have a question about using appliances, with voltage
that works in England, in Paris. I have a 240v hairdryer purchased in
England, and a US-bought curling iron with dual 120/240 voltage. Both
worked fine in London, and it was my understanding that appliances
from England only needed a plug adapter, not voltage adapter, to work
in Paris. However, I've only seen that the voltage in Paris is 220.
So I was wondering if these appliances that worked in England would in
fact work in Paris with only plug adapters, or if I will need voltage
adapters, or just to buy new French appliances.
Thanks in advance for any help,
Andrea

Big Brownz

It will work fine.


"Andrea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] om...
    > Hi everybody..I have a question about using appliances, with voltage
    > that works in England, in Paris. I have a 240v hairdryer purchased in
    > England, and a US-bought curling iron with dual 120/240 voltage. Both
    > worked fine in London, and it was my understanding that appliances
    > from England only needed a plug adapter, not voltage adapter, to work
    > in Paris. However, I've only seen that the voltage in Paris is 220.
    > So I was wondering if these appliances that worked in England would in
    > fact work in Paris with only plug adapters, or if I will need voltage
    > adapters, or just to buy new French appliances.
    > Thanks in advance for any help,
    > Andrea

Patrick Wallace

Should work on the 240 volt setting with only an adapter. The voltage
difference is unlikely to have much effect - I have no trouble with
my little travel kettle.

PJW

On 28 Aug 2004 08:35:18 -0700, [email protected] (Andrea) wrote:

    >Hi everybody..I have a question about using appliances, with voltage
    >that works in England, in Paris. I have a 240v hairdryer purchased in
    >England, and a US-bought curling iron with dual 120/240 voltage. Both
    >worked fine in London, and it was my understanding that appliances
    >from England only needed a plug adapter, not voltage adapter, to work
    >in Paris. However, I've only seen that the voltage in Paris is 220.
    >So I was wondering if these appliances that worked in England would in
    >fact work in Paris with only plug adapters, or if I will need voltage
    >adapters, or just to buy new French appliances.
    >Thanks in advance for any help,
    >Andrea

Alan \

In the message news:[email protected] om...
"Andrea" <[email protected]> wrote

    > Hi everybody..I have a question about using appliances, with voltage
    > that works in England, in Paris. I have a 240v hairdryer purchased in
    > England, and a US-bought curling iron with dual 120/240 voltage. Both
    > worked fine in London, and it was my understanding that appliances
    > from England only needed a plug adapter, not voltage adapter, to work
    > in Paris. However, I've only seen that the voltage in Paris is 220.
    > So I was wondering if these appliances that worked in England would in
    > fact work in Paris with only plug adapters, or if I will need voltage
    > adapters, or just to buy new French appliances.

In fact, the nominal voltage throughout most if not all Europe (at least the
15 EU member-States before 1 May 2004) has long been 230 V 50 Hz, with a
tolerance large enough to cover the former nominally 220 and 240 V networks.
So all domestic electrical equipment with the "CE" safety approval marking
should work OK.

Regards,

- Alan (in Brussels - mind the spamtrap)

Abso

Andrea wrote:

    > Hi everybody..I have a question about using appliances, with voltage
    > that works in England, in Paris. I have a 240v hairdryer purchased in
    > England, and a US-bought curling iron with dual 120/240 voltage. Both
    > worked fine in London, and it was my understanding that appliances
    > from England only needed a plug adapter, not voltage adapter, to work
    > in Paris. However, I've only seen that the voltage in Paris is 220.
    > So I was wondering if these appliances that worked in England would in
    > fact work in Paris with only plug adapters, or if I will need voltage
    > adapters, or just to buy new French appliances.

They'll work but your hair will take longer to dry and won't come out
so curly..

Ok, I'm being facecious. In fact the mains voltage/freqy in France is
exactly the same as the UK at 230V / 50Hz. It's been a long time since
there was 240v coming out of UK mains outlets but for the same reasons
we still think in Fahrenheit and buy sugar in 1lb bags, we can't seem
to get this 240V figure out of our heads.

Here are a couple of reference tables to support this. 230V is pretty
much a standard across Europe:

http://www.gbaudio.co.uk/data/mains.htm
http://oem.ansmann.de/en/s_mains-voltage.html

.. and this page reproduces some of the above but is also makes
interesting reading as it explains how some of these differences arose:

http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/electricity.htm

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http://upce.org.uk and http://ebayfaq.co.uk

Wolfgang Schwanke

[email protected] (Andrea) wrote in
news:[email protected] om:

    > Both
    > worked fine in London, and it was my understanding that appliances
    > from England only needed a plug adapter, not voltage adapter, to work
    > in Paris.

That is correct.

    > However, I've only seen that the voltage in Paris is 220.
    > So I was wondering if these appliances that worked in England would in
    > fact work in Paris with only plug adapters, or if I will need voltage
    > adapters, or just to buy new French appliances.

The difference between 220 and 240 V was irrelevant when it still existed.
It is so small that it never caused problems. Nowadays all of the EU is
nominally at 230 V anyway. The designations 220 and 240 V are history.

Regards

--
Sibirien in die EU!

http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de

nitram

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:32:35 +0200, Wolfgang Schwanke <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >[email protected] (Andrea) wrote in
    >news:[email protected]. com:
    >> Both
    >> worked fine in London, and it was my understanding that appliances
    >> from England only needed a plug adapter, not voltage adapter, to work
    >> in Paris.
    >That is correct.
    >> However, I've only seen that the voltage in Paris is 220.
    >> So I was wondering if these appliances that worked in England would in
    >> fact work in Paris with only plug adapters, or if I will need voltage
    >> adapters, or just to buy new French appliances.
    >The difference between 220 and 240 V was irrelevant when it still existed.
    >It is so small that it never caused problems.

Not quite, in the early days of microwave cookers, they were
substantially cheaper in UK than in NL. Unfortunately the difference
in voltage was sufficient to prevent some models of microwave cookers,
imported from UK working.

    > Nowadays all of the EU is
    >nominally at 230 V anyway. The designations 220 and 240 V are history.

Nominally 230 =/-5%

Donald Newcomb

"Abso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Ok, I'm being facecious. In fact the mains voltage/freqy in France is
    > exactly the same as the UK at 230V / 50Hz. It's been a long time since
    > there was 240v coming out of UK mains outlets but for the same reasons
    > we still think in Fahrenheit and buy sugar in 1lb bags, we can't seem
    > to get this 240V figure out of our heads.

Similar thing is true in the USA. Do we use 110 VAC or 120 VAC? Well, most
of the time, a good Volt meter will show socket on the wall is providing
almost exactly 117 VAC (RMS). The appliances have to be designed to
accomodate fluctiations between 110 and 120 VAC. BTW, most US homes and
appartments are also wired to provide power at between 208 and 230 VAC
(which we call "220"). These outlets are primarily used for large appliances
such as ranges, air conditioners and clothes dryers. So some European
appliances may not need a transformer, just a very special plug adapter.

--
Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net

Owain

"Abso" wrote
    | Ok, I'm being facecious. In fact the mains voltage/freqy in
    | France is exactly the same as the UK at 230V / 50Hz.
    | It's been a long time since there was 240v coming out of
    | UK mains outlets

Not true. The electricity generators and suppliers have not gone round the
country changing tappings on thousands of transformers. From the news:uk.diy
FAQ:

Traditionally, the UK has had a 240V (+/-6%) electrical supply since the
1960s, when the various local supply voltages (ranging from 200V to 250V)
were all brought into line with each other. Continental Europe had a 220V,
and Ireland a 230V, supply.

As part of European harmonisation effort to ensure electrical appliances
manufactured for use in the EU can be used in any of the countries, a common
nominal voltage for the whole EU has been set at 230V. The transition is a
two stage process:

* On 1 Jan 1995: UK became 230V +10% -6%, and Continental Europe became 230V
+6% -10%;

* On 1 Jan 2003: the whole EU becomes 230V +/-10%.

For most consumers, their measured mains voltage has and will not actually
change, because it already falls into these ranges: this was intentional.

The transitions shift the burden of responsibility from the electricity
suppliers to the appliance manufacturers, to increase the tolerance to
supply variation of their products. However, they will benefit by only
needing to supply one model (apart from the type of plug fitted, but that is
another story!) for all countries. Generally speaking, modern technology
allows devices to remain affordable while being more tolerant to supply
variations anyway. The heavy engineering of electricity supply is less
amenable to tightening up on performance.

So, you may well still find that your supply is 240V, but it is now
magically 230V compatible!

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/electrical.html#240V

    | Here are a couple of reference tables to support this.
    | 230V is pretty much a standard across Europe:
    | http://www.gbaudio.co.uk/data/mains.htm
    | http://oem.ansmann.de/en/s_mains-voltage.html

230V *isI standard throughout Europe, but that is *nominally* 230V. The UK
240V is well within the 230V +/- 10% - i.e. the voltage *anywhere* in Europe
may be up to 253V.

Lightbulbs are the main exception - a 220V lightbulb will have a reduced
life on a 240V supply.

Owain

Nightjar

"Abso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
...
    > Ok, I'm being facecious. In fact the mains voltage/freqy in France is
    > exactly the same as the UK at 230V / 50Hz. It's been a long time since
    > there was 240v coming out of UK mains outlets

Most UK distribution systems still supply 240v, just as most of Europe is
still at their old supply voltages. The permitted tolerance is 230v + 10% -
6% (254v - 216v) and it only as distribution equipment gets upgraded or
replaced that the change to 230v occurs. It took nearly 50 years to complete
the change to 240v in Britain and the change to the EU standard of 230v will
probably not be finished much quicker.

....
    > .. and this page reproduces some of the above but is also makes
    > interesting reading as it explains how some of these differences arose:
    > http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/electricity.htm

It is, however, oversimplified and, in those parts I have knowledge of,
often inaccurate. For example: it portrays the AC/DC war as being between
Tesla and Edison, completely ignoring people like Colonel Crompton, Lord
Kelvin, Ferranti and Sylvanus Thompson, all keen advocates of one system or
the other. It also wrongly claims that 50Hz was a post-war development in
Britain, when it had cost £17.5 million to make the change in the 1930s. I
also question the claim that AEG built the first European generating
facility. It certainly built the first modern style power station, the
Klingenburg station, near Berlin, but that was in 1930. Godalming (1881) is
generally considered to be the first public power supply, while Pearl Street
(New York), Holborn Viaduct and Brighton, all started public supplies in
1882, with Brighton holding the record for the world's longest continuous
public electricity supply.

Colin Bignell

Abso

Owain wrote:

    > 230V *isI standard throughout Europe, but that is nominally 230V. The
    > UK 240V is well within the 230V +/- 10% - i.e. the voltage anywhere
    > in Europe may be up to 253V.

So the only way I'm going to be sure what's coming out of this wall
socket next to me is to stick my fingers into it and see how high I
jump? Well, OK, on behalf of the ng I'm prepared to make small
sacrifices. Could someone please just tell me how many cm/volt I
should calibrate my wall at and I'll get right onto it..

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http://upce.org.uk and http://ebayfaq.co.uk

Abso

nightjar wrote:

    > > .. and this page reproduces some of the above but is also makes
    > > interesting reading as it explains how some of these differences
    > > arose:
    > >
    > > http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/electricity.htm
    >
    > It is, however, oversimplified and, in those parts I have knowledge
    > of, often inaccurate. For example: it portrays the AC/DC war as being
    > between Tesla and Edison, completely ignoring people like Colonel
    > Crompton, Lord Kelvin, Ferranti and Sylvanus Thompson, all keen
    > advocates of one system or the other. It also wrongly claims that
    > 50Hz was a post-war development in Britain, when it had cost #17.5
    > million to make the change in the 1930s. I also question the claim
    > that AEG built the first European generating facility. It certainly
    > built the first modern style power station, the Klingenburg station,
    > near Berlin, but that was in 1930. Godalming (1881) is generally
    > considered to be the first public power supply, while Pearl Street
    > (New York), Holborn Viaduct and Brighton, all started public supplies
    > in 1882, with Brighton holding the record for the world's longest
    > continuous public electricity supply.

I'll bow to your superior knowledge - just thought it was an
interesting subject for a webpage.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http://upce.org.uk and http://ebayfaq.co.uk

nitram

On 29 Aug 2004 15:00:35 GMT, "Abso" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Owain wrote:
    >> 230V *isI standard throughout Europe, but that is nominally 230V. The
    >> UK 240V is well within the 230V +/- 10% - i.e. the voltage anywhere
    >> in Europe may be up to 253V.
    >So the only way I'm going to be sure what's coming out of this wall
    >socket next to me is to stick my fingers into it and see how high I
    >jump?

You can buy a multimeter for Euro5.

nitram

nightjar wrote:
    > I also question the claim
    > that AEG built the first European generating facility.

It was installed in Schloss Linderhof - converging thread alert.

Devil

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 07:48:46 -0500, Donald Newcomb wrote:

    >
    > "Abso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Ok, I'm being facecious. In fact the mains voltage/freqy in France is
    >> exactly the same as the UK at 230V / 50Hz. It's been a long time since
    >> there was 240v coming out of UK mains outlets but for the same reasons
    >> we still think in Fahrenheit and buy sugar in 1lb bags, we can't seem
    >> to get this 240V figure out of our heads.
    >
    > Similar thing is true in the USA. Do we use 110 VAC or 120 VAC? Well, most
    > of the time, a good Volt meter will show socket on the wall is providing
    > almost exactly 117 VAC (RMS). The appliances have to be designed to
    > accomodate fluctiations between 110 and 120 VAC. BTW, most US homes and
    > appartments are also wired to provide power at between 208 and 230 VAC
    > (which we call "220"). These outlets are primarily used for large appliances
    > such as ranges, air conditioners and clothes dryers. So some European
    > appliances may not need a transformer, just a very special plug adapter.

Actually, this is done using what for Europeans probably looks strange: a
two-phase low voltage distribution loop. 230 phase-to-phase, 110
phase-to-neutral. Plus a separate ground.