A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
May 26th 2004, 1:46 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room (And a lesson in French Medical
Care system)
We have been in the French medical care system for 30 years. My
employer
(the CNRS) and I contributed to the system for years without drawing
from it.
In fact we don't with to draw from it.
When I retired 5 years ago, one of the factors in causing us not to
run back
to the US was the healt care system in Franc, which is judge by WHO as
one
of the world's best. It is considered superior over all to the
American since it
is universal, nearly everybody is in it in France. There are not
zillions of uninsured.
The over 65 here do not continue to contribute to the health care
system
in the same manner as working people. Still there are taxes on total
income,
investment included which go into the system and we make those
contributions.
We did run into a problem this week. A number of weeks ago my wife
had cataract operations, first one eye and then another later. No
problem arose
in the weeks that followed and her doctor took some time off, being
scheduled
to see her next week for a new glasses prescription. The eyesight was
better than
before, she can now read without reading glasses. However, yesterday
the vision in one eye became blurry. A call to the doctor gave an
answering
service and no coordinates of a back up doctor. Another doctor advised
going director to the emergency service at the Centre Hospitalier
National
d'Ophhalmologie in the 12th, near the Place Bastille.
I was a bit leary on emergency services since they have been bad
mouthed
with respect to the US. However, we have used emergency services in
France several time, without a problem so off we went.
This hospital had reasonably clear signs to go to "urgence" and on
entering there was only one or two other people waiiting at the check
in. Several others had been through check in and were waiting to
be looked at. Others were coming out having been looked at,
some being shifted to the hospital service itself for a more vigorous
intervention. Signs warned us that cases would be treated as to
their digree of seriousness. Some of the older people were wheeled
out in wheel chairs to the adajacent hospital service
In France we all have a "carte vitale" which says we are covered.
It is permits the Secu (the slang term for Security Sociale) to pay
the bills directly by computer hookup. On check in one shows
one's card and a dossier is set up, one receives an identity card
for any future visits. Anyway, about 20-30 minutes after
this sign up a doctor (woman in this case) took my wife and
gave her drops to dialate the pupils. About 45 minutes
after that she received a thorough exam lasting aobut 20-25
minutes. Diagnosis: The blurring was due to pressure build
up in one of the eyes and immediate medication was applied,
and more prescribed. My wife was told to return if any
blurring or inflamation of the eye reoccurred.
Cost? The 23 euros consulation cost was covered by the
Secu, we paid nothing for that but there was a 6 euro
charge for something I paid no attention to. The
prescription, obtained later, was also covered by the
Secu. We were told to go to the cashier to pay the 6
euro extra charge. We could have walked out without paying
but why cheat?
The one major emergency service we had years ago resulted in
hospitalization
for 4 days, the resulting bill was about 3000 euros (it
was in francs). What fraction of that we paid I don`t remember,
it was too small to remember.
Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
I;e. not to worry.
Earl
Care system)
We have been in the French medical care system for 30 years. My
employer
(the CNRS) and I contributed to the system for years without drawing
from it.
In fact we don't with to draw from it.
When I retired 5 years ago, one of the factors in causing us not to
run back
to the US was the healt care system in Franc, which is judge by WHO as
one
of the world's best. It is considered superior over all to the
American since it
is universal, nearly everybody is in it in France. There are not
zillions of uninsured.
The over 65 here do not continue to contribute to the health care
system
in the same manner as working people. Still there are taxes on total
income,
investment included which go into the system and we make those
contributions.
We did run into a problem this week. A number of weeks ago my wife
had cataract operations, first one eye and then another later. No
problem arose
in the weeks that followed and her doctor took some time off, being
scheduled
to see her next week for a new glasses prescription. The eyesight was
better than
before, she can now read without reading glasses. However, yesterday
the vision in one eye became blurry. A call to the doctor gave an
answering
service and no coordinates of a back up doctor. Another doctor advised
going director to the emergency service at the Centre Hospitalier
National
d'Ophhalmologie in the 12th, near the Place Bastille.
I was a bit leary on emergency services since they have been bad
mouthed
with respect to the US. However, we have used emergency services in
France several time, without a problem so off we went.
This hospital had reasonably clear signs to go to "urgence" and on
entering there was only one or two other people waiiting at the check
in. Several others had been through check in and were waiting to
be looked at. Others were coming out having been looked at,
some being shifted to the hospital service itself for a more vigorous
intervention. Signs warned us that cases would be treated as to
their digree of seriousness. Some of the older people were wheeled
out in wheel chairs to the adajacent hospital service
In France we all have a "carte vitale" which says we are covered.
It is permits the Secu (the slang term for Security Sociale) to pay
the bills directly by computer hookup. On check in one shows
one's card and a dossier is set up, one receives an identity card
for any future visits. Anyway, about 20-30 minutes after
this sign up a doctor (woman in this case) took my wife and
gave her drops to dialate the pupils. About 45 minutes
after that she received a thorough exam lasting aobut 20-25
minutes. Diagnosis: The blurring was due to pressure build
up in one of the eyes and immediate medication was applied,
and more prescribed. My wife was told to return if any
blurring or inflamation of the eye reoccurred.
Cost? The 23 euros consulation cost was covered by the
Secu, we paid nothing for that but there was a 6 euro
charge for something I paid no attention to. The
prescription, obtained later, was also covered by the
Secu. We were told to go to the cashier to pay the 6
euro extra charge. We could have walked out without paying
but why cheat?
The one major emergency service we had years ago resulted in
hospitalization
for 4 days, the resulting bill was about 3000 euros (it
was in francs). What fraction of that we paid I don`t remember,
it was too small to remember.
Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
I;e. not to worry.
Earl
May 26th 2004, 2:32 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
"Earl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room (And a lesson in French Medical
> Care system)
<snip>
> Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
> I;e. not to worry.
> Earl
Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
one have to pay?
news:[email protected]...
> A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room (And a lesson in French Medical
> Care system)
<snip>
> Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
> I;e. not to worry.
> Earl
Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
one have to pay?
May 26th 2004, 2:35 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
Anthony <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
> have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
> one have to pay?
I can't speak for France, but in Germany they will treat you immediately,
withouth any concern for if you can pay, BUT you have to pay at the end,
and they have a schedule for what you must pay. Generally if you have
US health insurance that covers this kind of thing, you pay, and then
the health insurance reimburses you.
Costs are much lower than in the US.
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
> Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
> have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
> one have to pay?
I can't speak for France, but in Germany they will treat you immediately,
withouth any concern for if you can pay, BUT you have to pay at the end,
and they have a schedule for what you must pay. Generally if you have
US health insurance that covers this kind of thing, you pay, and then
the health insurance reimburses you.
Costs are much lower than in the US.
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
May 26th 2004, 2:59 am
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
Earl writes:
> Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
And if you want American-style care, go to the American Hospital of
Paris (AHP) in Neuilly. The standard ER fee is only ¤130, plus any
tests and prescriptions (all reasonably priced). The AHP is
English-speaking and is the only JCAHO-certified hospital outside the
U.S. The AHP prices are lower than the U.S. probably because of the
competition from the very inexpensive public health-care system in
France. In some cases they are 5-10 times lower than the prices in the
U.S., for essentially identical care.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
And if you want American-style care, go to the American Hospital of
Paris (AHP) in Neuilly. The standard ER fee is only ¤130, plus any
tests and prescriptions (all reasonably priced). The AHP is
English-speaking and is the only JCAHO-certified hospital outside the
U.S. The AHP prices are lower than the U.S. probably because of the
competition from the very inexpensive public health-care system in
France. In some cases they are 5-10 times lower than the prices in the
U.S., for essentially identical care.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
May 26th 2004, 3:02 am
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
Anthony writes:
> Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
> have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
> one have to pay?
Public hospitals in France typically write off treatment of people not
covered by the Secu, at least for ER treatment. Their number is small
and the cost is low, so there's no point in being fussy about it. Even
the AHP is surprisingly casual about payment, although they do expect to
be paid.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
> have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
> one have to pay?
Public hospitals in France typically write off treatment of people not
covered by the Secu, at least for ER treatment. Their number is small
and the cost is low, so there's no point in being fussy about it. Even
the AHP is surprisingly casual about payment, although they do expect to
be paid.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
May 26th 2004, 3:23 am
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
"Anthony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Earl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room (And a lesson in French Medical
> > Care system)
> <snip>
> >
> > Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> > if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
> >
> > I;e. not to worry.
> >
> > Earl
> Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
> have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
> one have to pay?
Yes, you would have to pay, although I expect that, as in Britain, in an
emergency the policy would be to treat first and ask questions later. Within
the European Union, a form E111 gives a citizen of one state visiting
another the right to medical treatment on the same basis as citizens of the
visited country. So, I would be entitled, on presentation of an E111, to the
same treatment at the same cost as that described by Mr Elveth. If the EU
citizen doesn't have that document with him/her, costs can be reimbursed
later. This happened to my brother a few years back, when he was taken ill
in France, and the NHS reimbursed the French doctor's fee.
Even before the E111 scheme came in, Britain had reciprocal agreements with
a number of countries for mutual medical treatment of citizens. While I
don't think the former Soviet Union was among them, a friend of my brother's
was ceartainly given free treatment for a life-threatening illness in Moscow
more than 30 years ago.
English people are deeply shocked by incidents in which hospitals demand
proof of ability to pay before commencing treatment. A story about such an
incident appeared in just about every newspaper a few weeks ago, when the
victim just happened to be Martha Lane Fox (founder of lastminute.com and
probably a millionairess!) when she was involved in an accident in, I think,
Egypt.
Alan Harrison
Alan Harrison
news:[email protected]...
> "Earl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room (And a lesson in French Medical
> > Care system)
> <snip>
> >
> > Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> > if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
> >
> > I;e. not to worry.
> >
> > Earl
> Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
> have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
> one have to pay?
Yes, you would have to pay, although I expect that, as in Britain, in an
emergency the policy would be to treat first and ask questions later. Within
the European Union, a form E111 gives a citizen of one state visiting
another the right to medical treatment on the same basis as citizens of the
visited country. So, I would be entitled, on presentation of an E111, to the
same treatment at the same cost as that described by Mr Elveth. If the EU
citizen doesn't have that document with him/her, costs can be reimbursed
later. This happened to my brother a few years back, when he was taken ill
in France, and the NHS reimbursed the French doctor's fee.
Even before the E111 scheme came in, Britain had reciprocal agreements with
a number of countries for mutual medical treatment of citizens. While I
don't think the former Soviet Union was among them, a friend of my brother's
was ceartainly given free treatment for a life-threatening illness in Moscow
more than 30 years ago.
English people are deeply shocked by incidents in which hospitals demand
proof of ability to pay before commencing treatment. A story about such an
incident appeared in just about every newspaper a few weeks ago, when the
victim just happened to be Martha Lane Fox (founder of lastminute.com and
probably a millionairess!) when she was involved in an accident in, I think,
Egypt.
Alan Harrison
Alan Harrison
May 26th 2004, 3:39 am
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
"Anthony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Earl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room (And a lesson in French Medical
> > Care system)
> <snip>
> >
> > Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> > if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
> >
> > I;e. not to worry.
> >
> > Earl
> Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
> have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
> one have to pay?
I had to visit an emergency room in Milan, once, and wound up being held
overnight. The medical care I received was prompt, courteous and
first-rate, and I was charged exactly zero. Quite a difference from here in
the states.
news:[email protected]...
> "Earl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room (And a lesson in French Medical
> > Care system)
> <snip>
> >
> > Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> > if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
> >
> > I;e. not to worry.
> >
> > Earl
> Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
> have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
> one have to pay?
I had to visit an emergency room in Milan, once, and wound up being held
overnight. The medical care I received was prompt, courteous and
first-rate, and I was charged exactly zero. Quite a difference from here in
the states.
May 26th 2004, 4:15 am
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
Anthony schrieb:
>
> "Earl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room (And a lesson in French Medical
> > Care system)
> <snip>
> >
> > Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> > if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
> >
> > I;e. not to worry.
> >
> > Earl
>
> Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
> have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
> one have to pay?
We had occasion to get medical treatment in Italy a few times for minor
injuries to family members.
Cost of treatment - zero. But we had to pay for the bandages.
I also had to visit a doctor in Croatia last year. The treatment was
not free, but the cost was extremely low. The health fund refunded it.
T.
>
> "Earl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room (And a lesson in French Medical
> > Care system)
> <snip>
> >
> > Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> > if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
> >
> > I;e. not to worry.
> >
> > Earl
>
> Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
> have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
> one have to pay?
We had occasion to get medical treatment in Italy a few times for minor
injuries to family members.
Cost of treatment - zero. But we had to pay for the bandages.
I also had to visit a doctor in Croatia last year. The treatment was
not free, but the cost was extremely low. The health fund refunded it.
T.
May 26th 2004, 4:37 am
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
[email protected] (Earl) wrote in news:d9ba1e57.0405260546.8aa2606
@posting.google.com:
> Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
>
> I;e. not to worry.
>
> Earl
>
I did and I did. Had an eye care emergency in Lyon last year. Had excellent
care for a scratch on the cornea and went away with a 23 or so euro bill. I
shudder to think what my eye doc in the states would have charged.
@posting.google.com:
> Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
>
> I;e. not to worry.
>
> Earl
>
I did and I did. Had an eye care emergency in Lyon last year. Had excellent
care for a scratch on the cornea and went away with a 23 or so euro bill. I
shudder to think what my eye doc in the states would have charged.
May 26th 2004, 4:40 am
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
In many years of travel in Italy, I've needed medical care (minor,
thankfully) several times. In all cases except a dental emergency, the
charge was zero. As one doctor said "the paperwork costs more than the
visit according to the system" The dental visit, to replace a fallen
out inlay, cost me $25 US. The young dentist had trained in
So.California and had Cannonball Adderly on the stereo while he worked!
billfrogg
In article <[email protected]> , Earl
<[email protected]> wrote:
> A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room (And a lesson in French Medical
> Care system)
>
> We have been in the French medical care system for 30 years. My
> employer
> (the CNRS) and I contributed to the system for years without drawing
> from it.
> In fact we don't with to draw from it.
>
> When I retired 5 years ago, one of the factors in causing us not to
> run back
> to the US was the healt care system in Franc, which is judge by WHO as
> one
> of the world's best. It is considered superior over all to the
> American since it
> is universal, nearly everybody is in it in France. There are not
> zillions of uninsured.
> The over 65 here do not continue to contribute to the health care
> system
> in the same manner as working people. Still there are taxes on total
> income,
> investment included which go into the system and we make those
> contributions.
>
> We did run into a problem this week. A number of weeks ago my wife
> had cataract operations, first one eye and then another later. No
> problem arose
> in the weeks that followed and her doctor took some time off, being
> scheduled
> to see her next week for a new glasses prescription. The eyesight was
> better than
> before, she can now read without reading glasses. However, yesterday
> the vision in one eye became blurry. A call to the doctor gave an
> answering
> service and no coordinates of a back up doctor. Another doctor advised
> going director to the emergency service at the Centre Hospitalier
> National
> d'Ophhalmologie in the 12th, near the Place Bastille.
>
> I was a bit leary on emergency services since they have been bad
> mouthed
> with respect to the US. However, we have used emergency services in
> France several time, without a problem so off we went.
>
> This hospital had reasonably clear signs to go to "urgence" and on
> entering there was only one or two other people waiiting at the check
> in. Several others had been through check in and were waiting to
> be looked at. Others were coming out having been looked at,
> some being shifted to the hospital service itself for a more vigorous
> intervention. Signs warned us that cases would be treated as to
> their digree of seriousness. Some of the older people were wheeled
> out in wheel chairs to the adajacent hospital service
>
> In France we all have a "carte vitale" which says we are covered.
> It is permits the Secu (the slang term for Security Sociale) to pay
> the bills directly by computer hookup. On check in one shows
> one's card and a dossier is set up, one receives an identity card
> for any future visits. Anyway, about 20-30 minutes after
> this sign up a doctor (woman in this case) took my wife and
> gave her drops to dialate the pupils. About 45 minutes
> after that she received a thorough exam lasting aobut 20-25
> minutes. Diagnosis: The blurring was due to pressure build
> up in one of the eyes and immediate medication was applied,
> and more prescribed. My wife was told to return if any
> blurring or inflamation of the eye reoccurred.
>
> Cost? The 23 euros consulation cost was covered by the
> Secu, we paid nothing for that but there was a 6 euro
> charge for something I paid no attention to. The
> prescription, obtained later, was also covered by the
> Secu. We were told to go to the cashier to pay the 6
> euro extra charge. We could have walked out without paying
> but why cheat?
>
> The one major emergency service we had years ago resulted in
> hospitalization
> for 4 days, the resulting bill was about 3000 euros (it
> was in francs). What fraction of that we paid I don`t remember,
> it was too small to remember.
>
> Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
>
> I;e. not to worry.
>
> Earl
thankfully) several times. In all cases except a dental emergency, the
charge was zero. As one doctor said "the paperwork costs more than the
visit according to the system" The dental visit, to replace a fallen
out inlay, cost me $25 US. The young dentist had trained in
So.California and had Cannonball Adderly on the stereo while he worked!
billfrogg
In article <[email protected]> , Earl
<[email protected]> wrote:
> A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room (And a lesson in French Medical
> Care system)
>
> We have been in the French medical care system for 30 years. My
> employer
> (the CNRS) and I contributed to the system for years without drawing
> from it.
> In fact we don't with to draw from it.
>
> When I retired 5 years ago, one of the factors in causing us not to
> run back
> to the US was the healt care system in Franc, which is judge by WHO as
> one
> of the world's best. It is considered superior over all to the
> American since it
> is universal, nearly everybody is in it in France. There are not
> zillions of uninsured.
> The over 65 here do not continue to contribute to the health care
> system
> in the same manner as working people. Still there are taxes on total
> income,
> investment included which go into the system and we make those
> contributions.
>
> We did run into a problem this week. A number of weeks ago my wife
> had cataract operations, first one eye and then another later. No
> problem arose
> in the weeks that followed and her doctor took some time off, being
> scheduled
> to see her next week for a new glasses prescription. The eyesight was
> better than
> before, she can now read without reading glasses. However, yesterday
> the vision in one eye became blurry. A call to the doctor gave an
> answering
> service and no coordinates of a back up doctor. Another doctor advised
> going director to the emergency service at the Centre Hospitalier
> National
> d'Ophhalmologie in the 12th, near the Place Bastille.
>
> I was a bit leary on emergency services since they have been bad
> mouthed
> with respect to the US. However, we have used emergency services in
> France several time, without a problem so off we went.
>
> This hospital had reasonably clear signs to go to "urgence" and on
> entering there was only one or two other people waiiting at the check
> in. Several others had been through check in and were waiting to
> be looked at. Others were coming out having been looked at,
> some being shifted to the hospital service itself for a more vigorous
> intervention. Signs warned us that cases would be treated as to
> their digree of seriousness. Some of the older people were wheeled
> out in wheel chairs to the adajacent hospital service
>
> In France we all have a "carte vitale" which says we are covered.
> It is permits the Secu (the slang term for Security Sociale) to pay
> the bills directly by computer hookup. On check in one shows
> one's card and a dossier is set up, one receives an identity card
> for any future visits. Anyway, about 20-30 minutes after
> this sign up a doctor (woman in this case) took my wife and
> gave her drops to dialate the pupils. About 45 minutes
> after that she received a thorough exam lasting aobut 20-25
> minutes. Diagnosis: The blurring was due to pressure build
> up in one of the eyes and immediate medication was applied,
> and more prescribed. My wife was told to return if any
> blurring or inflamation of the eye reoccurred.
>
> Cost? The 23 euros consulation cost was covered by the
> Secu, we paid nothing for that but there was a 6 euro
> charge for something I paid no attention to. The
> prescription, obtained later, was also covered by the
> Secu. We were told to go to the cashier to pay the 6
> euro extra charge. We could have walked out without paying
> but why cheat?
>
> The one major emergency service we had years ago resulted in
> hospitalization
> for 4 days, the resulting bill was about 3000 euros (it
> was in francs). What fraction of that we paid I don`t remember,
> it was too small to remember.
>
> Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
>
> I;e. not to worry.
>
> Earl
May 26th 2004, 7:35 am
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
On Wed, 26 May 2004 10:32:47 -0400, "Anthony" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"Earl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room ...
>> Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
>> if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
>Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
>have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
>one have to pay?
I don't know how it's supposed to work, but my American daughter was
bit by a dog on a visit to me in Italy and we took her to the
emergency room. She was treated very quickly and professionally. A
little minor exploratory surgery was required, under local anesthesia,
to see if there was any damage to a tendon. We gave our address (here
in Italy), but no bill was ever sent to us. Total cost was zero. We
also got dressings at the pharmacy and they were also free, and the
pharmacy opened out of normal hours to give them to us, but that was
because it was the pharmacist's dog who bit my daughter.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
wrote:
>"Earl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room ...
>> Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
>> if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
>Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
>have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
>one have to pay?
I don't know how it's supposed to work, but my American daughter was
bit by a dog on a visit to me in Italy and we took her to the
emergency room. She was treated very quickly and professionally. A
little minor exploratory surgery was required, under local anesthesia,
to see if there was any damage to a tendon. We gave our address (here
in Italy), but no bill was ever sent to us. Total cost was zero. We
also got dressings at the pharmacy and they were also free, and the
pharmacy opened out of normal hours to give them to us, but that was
because it was the pharmacist's dog who bit my daughter.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
May 26th 2004, 7:35 am
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
On Wed, 26 May 2004 15:23:28 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Harrison"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>English people are deeply shocked by incidents in which hospitals demand
>proof of ability to pay before commencing treatment. A story about such an
>incident appeared in just about every newspaper a few weeks ago, when the
>victim just happened to be Martha Lane Fox (founder of lastminute.com and
>probably a millionairess!) when she was involved in an accident in, I think,
>Egypt.
Actually hospitals in the US are required by law to give emergency
care without regard to the ability to pay. They are sometimes rather
strict in their definition of emergency, however. Also, there are some
large public hospitals where care is free to all comers. One of these
is in Manhattan, and a large proportion of their caseload is composed
of people who come from third world countries just to get the medical
care. Some are not really in a good condition to travel.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
<[email protected]> wrote:
>English people are deeply shocked by incidents in which hospitals demand
>proof of ability to pay before commencing treatment. A story about such an
>incident appeared in just about every newspaper a few weeks ago, when the
>victim just happened to be Martha Lane Fox (founder of lastminute.com and
>probably a millionairess!) when she was involved in an accident in, I think,
>Egypt.
Actually hospitals in the US are required by law to give emergency
care without regard to the ability to pay. They are sometimes rather
strict in their definition of emergency, however. Also, there are some
large public hospitals where care is free to all comers. One of these
is in Manhattan, and a large proportion of their caseload is composed
of people who come from third world countries just to get the medical
care. Some are not really in a good condition to travel.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
May 26th 2004, 7:45 am
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
Dans l'article <[email protected]>, Juliana L Holm
<[email protected]> a écrit :
> Anthony <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
>> have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
>> one have to pay?
> I can't speak for France, but in Germany they will treat you immediately,
> withouth any concern for if you can pay, BUT you have to pay at the end,
> and they have a schedule for what you must pay. Generally if you have
> US health insurance that covers this kind of thing, you pay, and then
> the health insurance reimburses you.
> Costs are much lower than in the US.
That is the way it is here in France. A few years ago, a friend of ours had
a perforated ulcer and was found unconscious in the men's room of a library.
He was rushed to the nearest hospital which, fortunately, was just across
the street. He had emergency surgery, and was hospitalized for several
weeks. No one asked about payment until he was well on the road to
recovery. He paid, by the way. He had no medical insurance but did have a
family inheritance which could be and was tapped. The bill came to about
$30,000, our friend said that in the States it would have been $50,000.
Donna Evleth
> --
> Julie
> **********
> Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
> http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
<[email protected]> a écrit :
> Anthony <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Sounds excellent, but a visitor from outside the EEC would not, of course,
>> have a carte vitale. Would the system still work as you describe or would
>> one have to pay?
> I can't speak for France, but in Germany they will treat you immediately,
> withouth any concern for if you can pay, BUT you have to pay at the end,
> and they have a schedule for what you must pay. Generally if you have
> US health insurance that covers this kind of thing, you pay, and then
> the health insurance reimburses you.
> Costs are much lower than in the US.
That is the way it is here in France. A few years ago, a friend of ours had
a perforated ulcer and was found unconscious in the men's room of a library.
He was rushed to the nearest hospital which, fortunately, was just across
the street. He had emergency surgery, and was hospitalized for several
weeks. No one asked about payment until he was well on the road to
recovery. He paid, by the way. He had no medical insurance but did have a
family inheritance which could be and was tapped. The bill came to about
$30,000, our friend said that in the States it would have been $50,000.
Donna Evleth
> --
> Julie
> **********
> Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
> http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
May 26th 2004, 9:21 am
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
"Earl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room (And a lesson in French Medical
> Care system)
> We have been in the French medical care system for 30 years. My
> employer
> (the CNRS) and I contributed to the system for years without drawing
> from it.
> In fact we don't with to draw from it.
> When I retired 5 years ago, one of the factors in causing us not to
> run back
> to the US was the healt care system in Franc, which is judge by WHO as
> one
> of the world's best. It is considered superior over all to the
> American since it
> is universal, nearly everybody is in it in France. There are not
> zillions of uninsured.
> The over 65 here do not continue to contribute to the health care
> system
> in the same manner as working people. Still there are taxes on total
> income,
> investment included which go into the system and we make those
> contributions.
> We did run into a problem this week. A number of weeks ago my wife
> had cataract operations, first one eye and then another later. No
> problem arose
> in the weeks that followed and her doctor took some time off, being
> scheduled
> to see her next week for a new glasses prescription. The eyesight was
> better than
> before, she can now read without reading glasses. However, yesterday
> the vision in one eye became blurry. A call to the doctor gave an
> answering
> service and no coordinates of a back up doctor. Another doctor advised
> going director to the emergency service at the Centre Hospitalier
> National
> d'Ophhalmologie in the 12th, near the Place Bastille.
> I was a bit leary on emergency services since they have been bad
> mouthed
> with respect to the US. However, we have used emergency services in
> France several time, without a problem so off we went.
> This hospital had reasonably clear signs to go to "urgence" and on
> entering there was only one or two other people waiiting at the check
> in. Several others had been through check in and were waiting to
> be looked at. Others were coming out having been looked at,
> some being shifted to the hospital service itself for a more vigorous
> intervention. Signs warned us that cases would be treated as to
> their digree of seriousness. Some of the older people were wheeled
> out in wheel chairs to the adajacent hospital service
> In France we all have a "carte vitale" which says we are covered.
> It is permits the Secu (the slang term for Security Sociale) to pay
> the bills directly by computer hookup. On check in one shows
> one's card and a dossier is set up, one receives an identity card
> for any future visits. Anyway, about 20-30 minutes after
> this sign up a doctor (woman in this case) took my wife and
> gave her drops to dialate the pupils. About 45 minutes
> after that she received a thorough exam lasting aobut 20-25
> minutes. Diagnosis: The blurring was due to pressure build
> up in one of the eyes and immediate medication was applied,
> and more prescribed. My wife was told to return if any
> blurring or inflamation of the eye reoccurred.
> Cost? The 23 euros consulation cost was covered by the
> Secu, we paid nothing for that but there was a 6 euro
> charge for something I paid no attention to. The
> prescription, obtained later, was also covered by the
> Secu. We were told to go to the cashier to pay the 6
> euro extra charge. We could have walked out without paying
> but why cheat?
> The one major emergency service we had years ago resulted in
> hospitalization
> for 4 days, the resulting bill was about 3000 euros (it
> was in francs). What fraction of that we paid I don`t remember,
> it was too small to remember.
> Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
> I;e. not to worry.
> Earl
Earl,
I've read the French Health Care System is excellent also, but it is nearly
ready to crumble as it is broke. I know the citizens of Western Europe pay
perhaps half their salary in taxes for health care, and for retirement later
in life. So, nothing is really free, either in France or the U.S.(unless
you are indigent). I hope the French Health care system doesn't collapse
from lack of funding.
Don
news:[email protected]...
> A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room (And a lesson in French Medical
> Care system)
> We have been in the French medical care system for 30 years. My
> employer
> (the CNRS) and I contributed to the system for years without drawing
> from it.
> In fact we don't with to draw from it.
> When I retired 5 years ago, one of the factors in causing us not to
> run back
> to the US was the healt care system in Franc, which is judge by WHO as
> one
> of the world's best. It is considered superior over all to the
> American since it
> is universal, nearly everybody is in it in France. There are not
> zillions of uninsured.
> The over 65 here do not continue to contribute to the health care
> system
> in the same manner as working people. Still there are taxes on total
> income,
> investment included which go into the system and we make those
> contributions.
> We did run into a problem this week. A number of weeks ago my wife
> had cataract operations, first one eye and then another later. No
> problem arose
> in the weeks that followed and her doctor took some time off, being
> scheduled
> to see her next week for a new glasses prescription. The eyesight was
> better than
> before, she can now read without reading glasses. However, yesterday
> the vision in one eye became blurry. A call to the doctor gave an
> answering
> service and no coordinates of a back up doctor. Another doctor advised
> going director to the emergency service at the Centre Hospitalier
> National
> d'Ophhalmologie in the 12th, near the Place Bastille.
> I was a bit leary on emergency services since they have been bad
> mouthed
> with respect to the US. However, we have used emergency services in
> France several time, without a problem so off we went.
> This hospital had reasonably clear signs to go to "urgence" and on
> entering there was only one or two other people waiiting at the check
> in. Several others had been through check in and were waiting to
> be looked at. Others were coming out having been looked at,
> some being shifted to the hospital service itself for a more vigorous
> intervention. Signs warned us that cases would be treated as to
> their digree of seriousness. Some of the older people were wheeled
> out in wheel chairs to the adajacent hospital service
> In France we all have a "carte vitale" which says we are covered.
> It is permits the Secu (the slang term for Security Sociale) to pay
> the bills directly by computer hookup. On check in one shows
> one's card and a dossier is set up, one receives an identity card
> for any future visits. Anyway, about 20-30 minutes after
> this sign up a doctor (woman in this case) took my wife and
> gave her drops to dialate the pupils. About 45 minutes
> after that she received a thorough exam lasting aobut 20-25
> minutes. Diagnosis: The blurring was due to pressure build
> up in one of the eyes and immediate medication was applied,
> and more prescribed. My wife was told to return if any
> blurring or inflamation of the eye reoccurred.
> Cost? The 23 euros consulation cost was covered by the
> Secu, we paid nothing for that but there was a 6 euro
> charge for something I paid no attention to. The
> prescription, obtained later, was also covered by the
> Secu. We were told to go to the cashier to pay the 6
> euro extra charge. We could have walked out without paying
> but why cheat?
> The one major emergency service we had years ago resulted in
> hospitalization
> for 4 days, the resulting bill was about 3000 euros (it
> was in francs). What fraction of that we paid I don`t remember,
> it was too small to remember.
> Anyway, dear visitor, you will have to pay the 23 euros
> if you had to make a similar visit and get ill.
> I;e. not to worry.
> Earl
Earl,
I've read the French Health Care System is excellent also, but it is nearly
ready to crumble as it is broke. I know the citizens of Western Europe pay
perhaps half their salary in taxes for health care, and for retirement later
in life. So, nothing is really free, either in France or the U.S.(unless
you are indigent). I hope the French Health care system doesn't collapse
from lack of funding.
Don
May 26th 2004, 10:51 am
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A visit to a Parisian Emergency Room
"B Vaughan" wrote
| I don't know how it's supposed to work, but my American daughter was
| bit by a dog on a visit to me in Italy ... Total cost was zero. We
| also got dressings at the pharmacy and they were also free, and the
| pharmacy opened out of normal hours to give them to us, but that was
| because it was the pharmacist's dog who bit my daughter.
That might have made a slight difference. I'm surprised there wasn't some
nice perfume or beauty products thrown in free too :-)
Owain
| I don't know how it's supposed to work, but my American daughter was
| bit by a dog on a visit to me in Italy ... Total cost was zero. We
| also got dressings at the pharmacy and they were also free, and the
| pharmacy opened out of normal hours to give them to us, but that was
| because it was the pharmacist's dog who bit my daughter.
That might have made a slight difference. I'm surprised there wasn't some
nice perfume or beauty products thrown in free too :-)
Owain
