"greg byshenk" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Paul Tauger wrote:
    > > "greg byshenk" wrote in message
    > > > Alternatively, there are also frequent train connections from
Fiumicino
    > > > to Tiburtina, which are more frequent and less expensive than the
trains
    > > > to Termini. They are not express trains, though.
    > > > YMMV, but I can't see the point of taking a taxi just to get on a bus.
    > > Convenience, and not cost, is my priority. Happily, though we can't
quite
    > > say, "money is no object," our budget isn't so limited that the savings
of a
    > > train over a taxi would be a consideration.
    > I understand that. I rarely use taxis, but I can understand the
preference
    > of some people in cases such as a "direct to one's hotel" journey.
    > But in this case, one would be travelling directly from one train station
    > to another, and with no change of train or anything else. So I don't see
    > even a "convenience" advantage.

Perhaps I misunderstood. It's the same train to Siena as I would get at the
airport? That would, indeed, be more convenient, if don't have to change
trains.


    > --
    > greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
    > hate spam?
    >

Paul Tauger wrote:

    > Perhaps I misunderstood. It's the same train to Siena as I would get at the
    > airport? That would, indeed, be more convenient, if don't have to change
    > trains.


No, Siena is quite difficult to reach by train, and in any case there
are only suburban services from Fiumicino.

If anybody wants to try Rome-Siena by train, there are two possible
itineraries:

1. Take a slow train direction Florence and change at Chiusi direction
Siena (very slow trains on this leg)
2. Take a train direction Pisa and change at Grosseto direction Siena
(also slow trains, and few of them, but scenic ride)


-- -----------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]

"greg byshenk" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Paul Tauger wrote:
    > > "greg byshenk" wrote in message
    > > > Alternatively, there are also frequent train connections
from Fiumicino
    > > > to Tiburtina, which are more frequent and less expensive
than the trains
    > > > to Termini. They are not express trains, though.
    > > > YMMV, but I can't see the point of taking a taxi just to
get on a bus.
    > > Convenience, and not cost, is my priority. Happily, though
we can't quite
    > > say, "money is no object," our budget isn't so limited that
the savings of a
    > > train over a taxi would be a consideration.
    > I understand that. I rarely use taxis, but I can understand
the preference
    > of some people in cases such as a "direct to one's hotel"
journey.
    > But in this case, one would be travelling directly from one
train station
    > to another, and with no change of train or anything else. So I
don't see
    > even a "convenience" advantage.


The convenience is that you just get into a taxi when you arrive,
rather than having to first buy a ticket, then wait for a
scheduled train. It's both easier and faster--depending on the
train schedule and when you arrive, perhaps substantially faster.
Especially of you have luggage to deal with, a taxi is also
usually easier and more comfortable than the train.

Is that extra convenience worth the added cost? Each person has
to answer that question for himself. My reading, from his initial
post, was that his answer was yes, and that's why I suggested it.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

"Paul Tauger" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "greg byshenk" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Paul Tauger wrote:
    > > > "greg byshenk" wrote in message
    > >
    > > > > Alternatively, there are also frequent train connections
from
    > Fiumicino
    > > > > to Tiburtina, which are more frequent and less expensive
than the
    > trains
    > > > > to Termini. They are not express trains, though.
    > >
    > > > > YMMV, but I can't see the point of taking a taxi just to
get on a bus.
    > >
    > > > Convenience, and not cost, is my priority. Happily,
though we can't
    > quite
    > > > say, "money is no object," our budget isn't so limited
that the savings
    > of a
    > > > train over a taxi would be a consideration.
    > >
    > > I understand that. I rarely use taxis, but I can understand
the
    > preference
    > > of some people in cases such as a "direct to one's hotel"
journey.
    > >
    > > But in this case, one would be travelling directly from one
train station
    > > to another, and with no change of train or anything else. So
I don't see
    > > even a "convenience" advantage.
    > Perhaps I misunderstood. It's the same train to Siena as I
would get at the
    > airport? That would, indeed, be more convenient, if don't
have to change
    > trains.


No, no--you've misunderstood. It's an entirely different train.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

"Ken Blake" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Paul Tauger" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "greg byshenk" wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Paul Tauger wrote:
    > > > > "greg byshenk" wrote in message
    > > >
    > > > > > Alternatively, there are also frequent train connections
    > from
    > > Fiumicino
    > > > > > to Tiburtina, which are more frequent and less expensive
    > than the
    > > trains
    > > > > > to Termini. They are not express trains, though.
    > > >
    > > > > > YMMV, but I can't see the point of taking a taxi just to
    > get on a bus.
    > > >
    > > > > Convenience, and not cost, is my priority. Happily,
    > though we can't
    > > quite
    > > > > say, "money is no object," our budget isn't so limited
    > that the savings
    > > of a
    > > > > train over a taxi would be a consideration.
    > > >
    > > > I understand that. I rarely use taxis, but I can understand
    > the
    > > preference
    > > > of some people in cases such as a "direct to one's hotel"
    > journey.
    > > >
    > > > But in this case, one would be travelling directly from one
    > train station
    > > > to another, and with no change of train or anything else. So
    > I don't see
    > > > even a "convenience" advantage.
    > >
    > > Perhaps I misunderstood. It's the same train to Siena as I
    > would get at the
    > > airport? That would, indeed, be more convenient, if don't
    > have to change
    > > trains.
    > No, no--you've misunderstood. It's an entirely different train.

Ah, thanks. In that case, it's the taxi for me.

    > --
    > Ken Blake
    > Please reply to the newsgroup

Paul Tauger wrote:
    > "Ken Blake" wrote:
    > > "Paul Tauger" wrote:
    > > > "greg byshenk" wrote:
    > > > > Paul Tauger wrote:
    > > > > > "greg byshenk" wrote:

    > > > > > > Alternatively, there are also frequent train connections
    > > > > > > from Fiumicino to Tiburtina, which are more frequent and
    > > > > > > less expensive than the trains to Termini. They are not
    > > > > > > express trains, though.

    > > > > > > YMMV, but I can't see the point of taking a taxi just to
    > > > > > > get on a bus.

    > > > > > Convenience, and not cost, is my priority.

    > > > > But in this case, one would be travelling directly from one
    > > > > train station to another, and with no change of train or
    > > > > anything else. So I don't see even a "convenience" advantage.

    > > > Perhaps I misunderstood. It's the same train to Siena as I
    > > > would get at the airport? That would, indeed, be more convenient,
    > > > if we don't have to change trains.

    > > No, no--you've misunderstood. It's an entirely different train.

    > Ah, thanks. In that case, it's the taxi for me.

Yes, if you read back over the discussion, this was in relation to
taking a taxi to Tiburtina in order to catch a _bus_ to Siena.

You _are_ aware that this discussion has been about _bus_ to Seina,
are you not?


Feel free to take a taxi; my point was that it seems strange to me
to take a taxi between two train stations that are served by direct
trains.


--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?

Ken Blake wrote:
    > "greg byshenk" wrote in message
    > > Paul Tauger wrote:
    > > > "greg byshenk" wrote in message

    > > > > YMMV, but I can't see the point of taking a taxi just to
    > > > > get on a bus.

    > > > Convenience, and not cost, is my priority. Happily, though
    > > > we can't quite say, "money is no object," our budget isn't
    > > > so limited that the savings of a train over a taxi would be
    > > > a consideration.

    > > I understand that. I rarely use taxis, but I can understand
    > > the preference of some people in cases such as a "direct to
    > > one's hotel" journey.

    > > But in this case, one would be travelling directly from one
    > > train station to another, and with no change of train or
    > > anything else. So I don't see even a "convenience" advantage.

    > The convenience is that you just get into a taxi when you arrive,
    > rather than having to first buy a ticket, then wait for a
    > scheduled train. It's both easier and faster--depending on the
    > train schedule and when you arrive, perhaps substantially faster.
    > Especially of you have luggage to deal with, a taxi is also
    > usually easier and more comfortable than the train.

I still don't get it. There seems to be a train about every 15
minutes, so we aren't talking about a significant wait. And
buying a ticket takes all of 30 seconds. As for luggage, recall
that the _point_ of traveling to Tiburtina is in order to board
a bus to Siena; if one can't manage one's luggage, then one is
going to have more serious problems ahead.


--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?

"greg byshenk" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Paul Tauger wrote:
    > > "Ken Blake" wrote:
    > > > "Paul Tauger" wrote:
    > > > > "greg byshenk" wrote:
    > > > > > Paul Tauger wrote:
    > > > > > > "greg byshenk" wrote:
    > > > > > > > Alternatively, there are also frequent train connections
    > > > > > > > from Fiumicino to Tiburtina, which are more frequent and
    > > > > > > > less expensive than the trains to Termini. They are not
    > > > > > > > express trains, though.
    > > > > > > > YMMV, but I can't see the point of taking a taxi just to
    > > > > > > > get on a bus.
    > > > > > > Convenience, and not cost, is my priority.
    > > > > > But in this case, one would be travelling directly from one
    > > > > > train station to another, and with no change of train or
    > > > > > anything else. So I don't see even a "convenience" advantage.
    > > > > Perhaps I misunderstood. It's the same train to Siena as I
    > > > > would get at the airport? That would, indeed, be more convenient,
    > > > > if we don't have to change trains.
    > > > No, no--you've misunderstood. It's an entirely different train.
    > > Ah, thanks. In that case, it's the taxi for me.
    > Yes, if you read back over the discussion, this was in relation to
    > taking a taxi to Tiburtina in order to catch a _bus_ to Siena.
    > You _are_ aware that this discussion has been about _bus_ to Seina,
    > are you not?

The discussion has been about getting to Siena from Rome. From what I've
gathered, busses are more frequent than trains. However, if there were a
single train from the airport to Siena, that would be more convenient than
anything else.

    > Feel free to take a taxi; my point was that it seems strange to me
    > to take a taxi between two train stations that are served by direct
    > trains.

If I take a taxi, I don't have to worry about getting my bag and my wife's
bag on and off the train, don't have to worry about finding a seat, don't
have to hope I'm not near annoying passengers, etc.

The issue isn't taking a taxi between two train stations, but getting from
the airport to the nearest direct ground transportation to Siena. It is
MUCH easier to walk out of a air terminal and let the cab driver deal with
bags, directions, etc., than to find a train, get on it, etc. (with the
possible exception being Hong Kong's new airport, where the express stops
right outside of baggage claim).

    > --
    > greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
    > hate spam?
    >

Well, taking a new tack, have you considered renting a car? The reason is
bring this option up is your 4 or 5 night stay in Siena. Siena's a nice
place and it's worthwhile staying overnight there, but 4 or 5 nights seem a
bit many. For that long, I would want to get out into the Tuscan countryside
and that's best done with a car. (But where you park the car inside the
walls of medieval Siena, I don't know. And to get the full effect of staying
overnight, you should be in the center.)

Anyway, you could pick up the car at Fiumicino and drive to Siena. And you
could visit Florence by taking the bus from Siena!

Just another thought,

Marianne

P.S. My introduction to the Tuscan countryside was on a bus from the train
station in Chiusi. The bus was there, the train connection was late, we took
the bus. And had a magic ride through the hills and countryside of eastern
Tuscany past ancient farmhouses and hilltowns. The only downside was this
bus stopped at the Siena train station and we had to stand in line to get a
taxi into the center of town.


"Paul Tauger" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Luca Logi" wrote in message
    > news:1fqqzjp.v81rbwan87rhN%[email protected]...
    > > Ken Blake wrote:
    > >
    > > > Are you asking whether it's better to fly to Milan or Rome to get
    > > > connections to Siena? Fly to Rome. Take a taxi to Stazione
    > > > Tiburtina (not Stazione Termini) and get the bus to Siena there.
    > > > Train connections to Siena are poor and you're better off with
    > > > the bus.
    > >
    > > Another option, if the Rome-Siena bus fails, is to take a train to
    > > Florence, and take a bus from Florence to Siena (the bus station in
    > > Florence is near the train station and the service is frequent).
    > >
    > > Even if Florence is exactly midway between Milan and Rome, the
    > > Florence-Rome leg by train is much faster, so the best option is flying
    > > into Rome.
    > Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing Florence again; it's a beautiful city.
Our
    > problem is that we only have two weeks or so for this trip. It's tempting
    > to keep adding destinations, but I hate spending only a night or two in a
    > city. We're planning on 4 or 5 nights in Venice (we've been there
before),
    > perhaps perhaps the same in Siena, 2 nights in Zurich (we've been there as
    > well), and perhaps an extra 2 or 3 nights in Berne.
    > Our usual yearly (or twice-yearly) European trip lasts 3 to 5 weeks.
Family
    > emergencies have limited the amount of time I can take off from work this
    > year, and our last two trips were to India and China. We're really
anxious
    > to get back to Europe for a little while, so we're going to steal 14, or
    > perhaps 16 days for a quick visit. We know Rome well, so we won't feel
bad
    > going directly to the bus station from the airport. We've only been to
    > Florence once, and only for a few days -- I think we'd be quite frustrated
    > if we could only pass through without spending some more time there. I'd
    > rather save it for another trip.
    > >
    > > -- -----------------------------------------------------
    > > Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
    > >

"greg byshenk" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...



    > I still don't get it. There seems to be a train about every 15
    > minutes, so we aren't talking about a significant wait.

Fifteen minutes _is_ a significant wait, as far as I'm concerned,
particularly after 13 hours in the air.

    > And
    > buying a ticket takes all of 30 seconds.

Once you find the ticket window, negotiate whatever line is there, etc.

I take trains from airports when it makes personal sense for me to do so,
e.g. at Hong Kong's airport. I take taxis or hotel cars from airports when
it makes personal sense to do so, e.g. from Malpensa.

    > As for luggage, recall
    > that the _point_ of traveling to Tiburtina is in order to board
    > a bus to Siena; if one can't manage one's luggage, then one is
    > going to have more serious problems ahead.

I am constantly amazed at how many people think that the way they travel is
the ONLY way to travel and don't feel at all constrained from offering
unsolicted, unwelcome and unnecessary advice. I travel internationally two
to three times a year, for a minimum of 3 to 5 weeks per trip. I am a very
experienced traveler and do not need a lecture from someone who doesn't know
anything of me or my lifestyle about the "point of traveling."

For a short trip like this, my wife and I carry one rollaboard each. I
carry a backpack which contains my camcorder and computer (I must carry my
computer when I travel -- such is the nature of my business). My wife has
her own largish purse.

My wife is of small stature and has trouble managing her rollaboard on
trains, so it falls to me to manage it for her. And I don't like to do it
because I'm middle-aged, lazy, not in particularly good shape and
specifically not interested in luggage wrestling to either save a few
dollars or satisfy someone else's conception of the appropriate way to
travel. The "point of travel," for us, is to experience other cultures, see
and do things that are not available in the U.S. and, generally, just to
"be" somewhere other than home. It is not to "rough it," or to cut
ourselves off from the creature comforts that we prefer and have been
accustomed to, and definitely not to watch every penny that we spend. We
don't wash our clothes in hotel sinks, we don't stay in hostels, we don't
incur inconvenience or discomfort because it saves money, and we don't
accept limitations on where we can dine or what we can do because we've
packed so light that we don't have appropriate clothes for the occassion.
We also don't judge those who do -- how one travels is no one else's
business.

As I said in another post, I am fortunate enough to have enough
discretionary money so that taking a taxi (or hiring a private car, etc.)
doesn't impact my travel budget at all. I'm sorry if you feel that doing so
defeats the "point of travel," but I do not agree.




    > --
    > greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
    > hate spam?
    >

"mimi" wrote in message
news:0H76a.207142$SD6.10543@sccrnsc03...
    > Well, taking a new tack, have you considered renting a car? The reason is
    > bring this option up is your 4 or 5 night stay in Siena. Siena's a nice
    > place and it's worthwhile staying overnight there, but 4 or 5 nights seem
a
    > bit many. For that long, I would want to get out into the Tuscan
countryside
    > and that's best done with a car. (But where you park the car inside the
    > walls of medieval Siena, I don't know. And to get the full effect of
staying
    > overnight, you should be in the center.)
    > Anyway, you could pick up the car at Fiumicino and drive to Siena. And you
    > could visit Florence by taking the bus from Siena!

Actually, I hadn't thought of renting a car. That's a good idea and worth
investigating. I've driven in Italy a number of times and, except for a
nightmarish experience in Palermo, have never had any difficulty (I've even
rented motor scooters in Rome).

I think we'll probably pass on Florence this trip. There simply isn't
enough time for a proper visit; we'll just have to get back there again
another time.


    > Just another thought,
    > Marianne
    > P.S. My introduction to the Tuscan countryside was on a bus from the train
    > station in Chiusi. The bus was there, the train connection was late, we
took
    > the bus. And had a magic ride through the hills and countryside of eastern
    > Tuscany past ancient farmhouses and hilltowns. The only downside was this
    > bus stopped at the Siena train station and we had to stand in line to get
a
    > taxi into the center of town.
    > "Paul Tauger" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Luca Logi" wrote in message
    > > news:1fqqzjp.v81rbwan87rhN%[email protected]...
    > > > Ken Blake wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Are you asking whether it's better to fly to Milan or Rome to get
    > > > > connections to Siena? Fly to Rome. Take a taxi to Stazione
    > > > > Tiburtina (not Stazione Termini) and get the bus to Siena there.
    > > > > Train connections to Siena are poor and you're better off with
    > > > > the bus.
    > > >
    > > > Another option, if the Rome-Siena bus fails, is to take a train to
    > > > Florence, and take a bus from Florence to Siena (the bus station in
    > > > Florence is near the train station and the service is frequent).
    > > >
    > > > Even if Florence is exactly midway between Milan and Rome, the
    > > > Florence-Rome leg by train is much faster, so the best option is
flying
    > > > into Rome.
    > >
    > > Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing Florence again; it's a beautiful city.
    > Our
    > > problem is that we only have two weeks or so for this trip. It's
tempting
    > > to keep adding destinations, but I hate spending only a night or two in
a
    > > city. We're planning on 4 or 5 nights in Venice (we've been there
    > before),
    > > perhaps perhaps the same in Siena, 2 nights in Zurich (we've been there
as
    > > well), and perhaps an extra 2 or 3 nights in Berne.
    > >
    > > Our usual yearly (or twice-yearly) European trip lasts 3 to 5 weeks.
    > Family
    > > emergencies have limited the amount of time I can take off from work
this
    > > year, and our last two trips were to India and China. We're really
    > anxious
    > > to get back to Europe for a little while, so we're going to steal 14, or
    > > perhaps 16 days for a quick visit. We know Rome well, so we won't feel
    > bad
    > > going directly to the bus station from the airport. We've only been to
    > > Florence once, and only for a few days -- I think we'd be quite
frustrated
    > > if we could only pass through without spending some more time there.
I'd
    > > rather save it for another trip.
    > >
    > >
    > > >
    > > > -- -----------------------------------------------------
    > > > Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
    > > >
    > >
    > >

Paul Tauger wrote:
    > "greg byshenk" wrote in message

    >

    > > I still don't get it. There seems to be a train about every 15
    > > minutes, so we aren't talking about a significant wait.

    > Fifteen minutes _is_ a significant wait, as far as I'm concerned,
    > particularly after 13 hours in the air.

I don't see how "after 13 hours in the air" makes any difference to
the matter. It's 15 minutes or less, probably less time than it
will take to get from the plane to the taxi or train. In a total
journey of 15+ hours, 15 minutes is trivial.


    > > And
    > > buying a ticket takes all of 30 seconds.

    > Once you find the ticket window, negotiate whatever line is there, etc.

"Find the window"...? I didn't realize it was lost. I think that
doing so took me about 5 seconds the very first time I was ever
there.


    > I take trains from airports when it makes personal sense for me to do so,
    > e.g. at Hong Kong's airport. I take taxis or hotel cars from airports when
    > it makes personal sense to do so, e.g. from Malpensa.

If all you are interested in is what "makes personal sense for [you]",
then you can just stick with "I wanna take a taxi". The fact that
you are going to such lengths to justify your choice would at least
suggest that you think your choice makes sense in some more general
way. I'm pointing out that it doesn't seem to do so. As I've
already noted, if you wish to take a taxi, you should feel free to
do so.

    > > As for luggage, recall
    > > that the _point_ of traveling to Tiburtina is in order to board
    > > a bus to Siena; if one can't manage one's luggage, then one is
    > > going to have more serious problems ahead.

    > I am constantly amazed at how many people think that the way they travel is
    > the ONLY way to travel and don't feel at all constrained from offering
    > unsolicted, unwelcome and unnecessary advice.

A trifle defensive here, methinks. I am not making some general
statement about "the point of travel" in general, but calling
attention to the fact that the _reason_ _for_ _going_ _to_
_Tiburtina_ (not the reason for travelling in general) is to
catch a bus to Siena. That was a premise from _before_ I first
posted in this thread. Is that somehow not the case? Are you
going to Tiburtina for no reason at all?


    > I travel internationally two
    > to three times a year, for a minimum of 3 to 5 weeks per trip. I am a very
    > experienced traveler and do not need a lecture from someone who doesn't know
    > anything of me or my lifestyle about the "point of traveling."

I think you'd do better to read for content rather than simply
grabbing hold of a single phrase and running away with it.


    > For a short trip like this, my wife and I carry one rollaboard each. I
    > carry a backpack which contains my camcorder and computer (I must carry my
    > computer when I travel -- such is the nature of my business). My wife has
    > her own largish purse.

    > My wife is of small stature and has trouble managing her rollaboard on
    > trains, so it falls to me to manage it for her. And I don't like to do it
    > because I'm middle-aged, lazy, not in particularly good shape and
    > specifically not interested in luggage wrestling to either save a few
    > dollars or satisfy someone else's conception of the appropriate way to
    > travel. The "point of travel," for us, is to experience other cultures, see
    > and do things that are not available in the U.S. and, generally, just to
    > "be" somewhere other than home. It is not to "rough it," or to cut
    > ourselves off from the creature comforts that we prefer and have been
    > accustomed to, and definitely not to watch every penny that we spend. We
    > don't wash our clothes in hotel sinks, we don't stay in hostels, we don't
    > incur inconvenience or discomfort because it saves money, and we don't
    > accept limitations on where we can dine or what we can do because we've
    > packed so light that we don't have appropriate clothes for the occassion.
    > We also don't judge those who do -- how one travels is no one else's
    > business.

A lovely rant, to be sure. It is, however, _wholly_ beside the point.
Are you planning on boarding a bus at Tiburtina? If you are incapable
of managing your luggage, then what do you plan to do with it then, and
what do you plan to do with it on arrival in Siena?

[I note, just in passing, that your "experienc[ing] of other cultures"
seems not to extend so far as sitting next to an Italian on the train.
One can only wonder what perils lurk on the bus to Siena.]


    > As I said in another post, I am fortunate enough to have enough
    > discretionary money so that taking a taxi (or hiring a private car, etc.)
    > doesn't impact my travel budget at all. I'm sorry if you feel that doing so
    > defeats the "point of travel," but I do not agree.

We're all very impressed. But you still haven't presented a
reasonable (at least to me) explanation of why you want to take a
taxi. Not that such is required, of course, but you seem to feel a
need to justify yourself (at great length, I might add, and even on
matters that were in no way questioned).

As I understand the situation: you will be travelling between two
train stations that are served by freqent, direct trains. At your
originating station, you will be disembarking from an aircraft, and
will be dealing with your luggage. At your destination station, you
will be boarding a bus, and also dealing with your luggage. The
additional "convenience" factor seems to be that, rather than pulling
your rollaboards a few meters into and out of a train carriage, you
will have a taxi driver lift them into the trunk of his taxi.

The justification here seems feeble, at least to me.


But again, it's not my trip -- if you want to take a taxi, then go
to it!


--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
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"greg byshenk" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Paul Tauger wrote:
    > > "greg byshenk" wrote in message
    > >
    > > > I still don't get it. There seems to be a train about every 15
    > > > minutes, so we aren't talking about a significant wait.
    > > Fifteen minutes _is_ a significant wait, as far as I'm concerned,
    > > particularly after 13 hours in the air.
    > I don't see how "after 13 hours in the air" makes any difference to
    > the matter. It's 15 minutes or less, probably less time than it
    > will take to get from the plane to the taxi or train. In a total
    > journey of 15+ hours, 15 minutes is trivial.

Only in your opinion. Apparently, it hasn't occured to you that other
people have other opinions.

And I simlpy don't believe that it takes the same time to get from the plane
to the train as it does to get from the plane to a taxi. I know of only one
airport in the world where this is true.


    > > > And
    > > > buying a ticket takes all of 30 seconds.
    > > Once you find the ticket window, negotiate whatever line is there, etc.
    > "Find the window"...? I didn't realize it was lost.

Very clever. Every airport in the world has signs indicating where to find
taxis outside of baggage claim. I know of only one that gives directions to
_specific_ trains to specific locations.

    > I think that
    > doing so took me about 5 seconds the very first time I was ever
    > there.

Well good for you.

    > > I take trains from airports when it makes personal sense for me to do
so,
    > > e.g. at Hong Kong's airport. I take taxis or hotel cars from airports
when
    > > it makes personal sense to do so, e.g. from Malpensa.
    > If all you are interested in is what "makes personal sense for [you]",
    > then you can just stick with "I wanna take a taxi".

Of course I'm only interested in what makes personal sense for me. That's
why I posted my question in the first place. I'm not askingo out of
academic interest, but because I'm planning a specific trip.

    >The fact that
    > you are going to such lengths to justify your choice would at least
    > suggest that you think your choice makes sense in some more general
    > way.

Hogwash. Different people travel differently. For a question like, "how do
I get from point A to point B," there is no "general" rule for everyone. It
all depends on the individual's requirements.

    >I'm pointing out that it doesn't seem to do so. As I've
    > already noted, if you wish to take a taxi, you should feel free to
    > do so.
    > > > As for luggage, recall
    > > > that the _point_ of traveling to Tiburtina is in order to board
    > > > a bus to Siena; if one can't manage one's luggage, then one is
    > > > going to have more serious problems ahead.
    > > I am constantly amazed at how many people think that the way they
travel is
    > > the ONLY way to travel and don't feel at all constrained from offering
    > > unsolicted, unwelcome and unnecessary advice.
    > A trifle defensive here, methinks.

No. A trifle annoyed. I asked for specific information, not for off-topic
analysis or criticism.

    >I am not making some general
    > statement about "the point of travel" in general, but calling
    > attention to the fact that the _reason_ _for_ _going_ _to_
    > _Tiburtina_ (not the reason for travelling in general) is to
    > catch a bus to Siena. That was a premise from _before_ I first
    > posted in this thread. Is that somehow not the case? Are you
    > going to Tiburtina for no reason at all?
    > > I travel internationally two
    > > to three times a year, for a minimum of 3 to 5 weeks per trip. I am a
very
    > > experienced traveler and do not need a lecture from someone who doesn't
know
    > > anything of me or my lifestyle about the "point of traveling."
    > I think you'd do better to read for content rather than simply
    > grabbing hold of a single phrase and running away with it.
    > > For a short trip like this, my wife and I carry one rollaboard each.
I
    > > carry a backpack which contains my camcorder and computer (I must carry
my
    > > computer when I travel -- such is the nature of my business). My wife
has
    > > her own largish purse.
    > > My wife is of small stature and has trouble managing her rollaboard on
    > > trains, so it falls to me to manage it for her. And I don't like to do
it
    > > because I'm middle-aged, lazy, not in particularly good shape and
    > > specifically not interested in luggage wrestling to either save a few
    > > dollars or satisfy someone else's conception of the appropriate way to
    > > travel. The "point of travel," for us, is to experience other
cultures, see
    > > and do things that are not available in the U.S. and, generally, just
to
    > > "be" somewhere other than home. It is not to "rough it," or to cut
    > > ourselves off from the creature comforts that we prefer and have been
    > > accustomed to, and definitely not to watch every penny that we spend.
We
    > > don't wash our clothes in hotel sinks, we don't stay in hostels, we
don't
    > > incur inconvenience or discomfort because it saves money, and we don't
    > > accept limitations on where we can dine or what we can do because we've
    > > packed so light that we don't have appropriate clothes for the
occassion.
    > > We also don't judge those who do -- how one travels is no one else's
    > > business.
    > A lovely rant, to be sure. It is, however, _wholly_ beside the point.
    > Are you planning on boarding a bus at Tiburtina?

I am, indeed. And I intend to get there in a way that is most convenient
and comfortable _for me_, based on the way that _I_ travel.


    > If you are incapable
    > of managing your luggage, then what do you plan to do with it then, and
    > what do you plan to do with it on arrival in Siena?

I'm not incapable of managing my luggage. Read more carefully next time.


    > [I note, just in passing, that your "experienc[ing] of other cultures"
    > seems not to extend so far as sitting next to an Italian on the train.
    > One can only wonder what perils lurk on the bus to Siena.]

Oh, what utter crap! I take trains in Italy all the time. You've got some
peculiar ideas that reflect your own prejudices and narrow-mindedness.
Continuing this discussion with you is pointless.


    > > As I said in another post, I am fortunate enough to have enough
    > > discretionary money so that taking a taxi (or hiring a private car,
etc.)
    > > doesn't impact my travel budget at all. I'm sorry if you feel that
doing so
    > > defeats the "point of travel," but I do not agree.
    > We're all very impressed. But you still haven't presented a
    > reasonable (at least to me) explanation of why you want to take a
    > taxi. Not that such is required, of course, but you seem to feel a
    > need to justify yourself (at great length, I might add, and even on
    > matters that were in no way questioned).
    > As I understand the situation: you will be travelling between two
    > train stations that are served by freqent, direct trains. At your
    > originating station, you will be disembarking from an aircraft, and
    > will be dealing with your luggage. At your destination station, you
    > will be boarding a bus, and also dealing with your luggage. The
    > additional "convenience" factor seems to be that, rather than pulling
    > your rollaboards a few meters into and out of a train carriage, you
    > will have a taxi driver lift them into the trunk of his taxi.
    > The justification here seems feeble, at least to me.
    > But again, it's not my trip -- if you want to take a taxi, then go
    > to it!
    > --
    > greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
    > hate spam?
    >

Paul Tauger wrote:
    > "greg byshenk" wrote in message
    > > Paul Tauger wrote:
    > > > "greg byshenk" wrote in message

    > > > > I still don't get it. There seems to be a train about every 15
    > > > > minutes, so we aren't talking about a significant wait.

    > > > Fifteen minutes _is_ a significant wait, as far as I'm concerned,
    > > > particularly after 13 hours in the air.

    > > I don't see how "after 13 hours in the air" makes any difference to
    > > the matter. It's 15 minutes or less, probably less time than it
    > > will take to get from the plane to the taxi or train. In a total
    > > journey of 15+ hours, 15 minutes is trivial.

    > Only in your opinion. Apparently, it hasn't occured to you that other
    > people have other opinions.

I'm well aware that all sorts of people have all sorts of wacky
opinions. That said, if someone presents their opinion as
reasonable, then I expect them to be able to justify it as such.


    > And I simlpy don't believe that it takes the same time to get from the plane
    > to the train as it does to get from the plane to a taxi. I know of only one
    > airport in the world where this is true.

To be honest, I don't know which takes longer in this case, as I've
never taken a taxi from Fiumicino, and never timed the trip to the
train. In any case, it is trivial, a matter of minutes one way or
the other.

Further, 15 minutes out of a journey of more than 15 hours is less
than one-sixtieth of the overall journey. This strikes me as almost
paradigmatically 'trivial'. If you have a reasoned explanation as
to why this is not so, feel free to present it. Note: "my opinion
is different" is not such an explanation.


    > > > > And
    > > > > buying a ticket takes all of 30 seconds.

    > > > Once you find the ticket window, negotiate whatever line is there, etc.

    > > "Find the window"...? I didn't realize it was lost.

    > Very clever. Every airport in the world has signs indicating where to find
    > taxis outside of baggage claim. I know of only one that gives directions to
    > _specific_ trains to specific locations.

Do you know _anything_ about the station at Fiumicino? I cannot
believe that you do, else you would not be saying such silly things.


    > > I think that
    > > doing so took me about 5 seconds the very first time I was ever
    > > there.

    > Well good for you.

See above.


    > > > I take trains from airports when it makes personal sense for me to do
    > > > so, e.g. at Hong Kong's airport. I take taxis or hotel cars from airports
    > > > when it makes personal sense to do so, e.g. from Malpensa.

    > > If all you are interested in is what "makes personal sense for [you]",
    > > then you can just stick with "I wanna take a taxi".

    > Of course I'm only interested in what makes personal sense for me. That's
    > why I posted my question in the first place. I'm not askingo out of
    > academic interest, but because I'm planning a specific trip.

Making sense is not a personal thing. What particular thing makes
sense will depend on the particular situation, but making sense is
not a matter of personal taste (apart from those who are disconnected
from reality).


    > >The fact that
    > > you are going to such lengths to justify your choice would at least
    > > suggest that you think your choice makes sense in some more general
    > > way.

    > Hogwash. Different people travel differently. For a question like, "how do
    > I get from point A to point B," there is no "general" rule for everyone. It
    > all depends on the individual's requirements.

See above. It is not a question of different situations, but whether
your explanation makes sense given the situation.


    > > I'm pointing out that it doesn't seem to do so. As I've
    > > already noted, if you wish to take a taxi, you should feel free to
    > > do so.

    > > > > As for luggage, recall
    > > > > that the _point_ of traveling to Tiburtina is in order to board
    > > > > a bus to Siena; if one can't manage one's luggage, then one is
    > > > > going to have more serious problems ahead.

    > > > I am constantly amazed at how many people think that the way they
    > > > travel is the ONLY way to travel and don't feel at all constrained
    > > > from offering unsolicted, unwelcome and unnecessary advice.

    > > A trifle defensive here, methinks.

    > No. A trifle annoyed. I asked for specific information, not for off-topic
    > analysis or criticism.

And you received your information; probably more than you needed,
but that's hardly a problem.

And I've already pointed out multiple times that you are free to
use whatever means of transport will make you happy.

I don't believe that anyone is forcing you to read my messages or
to respond to them -- but you are the one who continues in your
feeble attempts at justification and long irrelevant rants.

[...]

    > Oh, what utter crap! I take trains in Italy all the time. You've got some
    > peculiar ideas that reflect your own prejudices and narrow-mindedness.
    > Continuing this discussion with you is pointless.

And, if you have nothing else to say, I'll gladly stop.

As I've said so many times now, if it makes you happy to take a
taxi, then go for it! I couldn't stop you even if I were so silly
as to want to do so.


--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
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"greg byshenk" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

    > Ken Blake wrote:

    > > The convenience is that you just get into a taxi when you
arrive,
    > > rather than having to first buy a ticket, then wait for a
    > > scheduled train. It's both easier and faster--depending on
the
    > > train schedule and when you arrive, perhaps substantially
faster.
    > > Especially of you have luggage to deal with, a taxi is also
    > > usually easier and more comfortable than the train.
    > I still don't get it. There seems to be a train about every 15
    > minutes, so we aren't talking about a significant wait. And
    > buying a ticket takes all of 30 seconds. As for luggage,
recall
    > that the _point_ of traveling to Tiburtina is in order to board
    > a bus to Siena; if one can't manage one's luggage, then one is
    > going to have more serious problems ahead.


OK, I don't have any more to add. Like you, I would probably take
a train. He, on the other hand, seems to be willing to spend a
little more on a taxi for the extra convenience, however large it
may be.

There's nothing to argue about here. You don't think it's worth
the money. I don't think it's worth the money. The OP *does*
think it's worth the money. That's fine. We can all see this
differently.

--
Ken Blake
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