Venice card worth it?
Aug 24th 2003 | 10:26 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Venice card worth it?
I see a Venice card is advertised as a "good" deal. Seems like it's
price is not a good deal though. I don't remember the services covered
by the card to be as expensive as the card itself.
Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bill
price is not a good deal though. I don't remember the services covered
by the card to be as expensive as the card itself.
Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bill
Aug 25th 2003 | 4:20 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Venice card worth it?
Take a look at www.venicecard.com
There are two -- one covers just vaporetti and toilets, the other vaporetti,
toilets, plus a few museums. Both are much more expensive -- jolly
expensive, I think --than they used to be. Vaporetti are now 5 euros a
time-- it is nice to be able to ride them a lot -- they are fun and the
scenery is marvelous. But if money is tight, you can walk almost
everywhere -- which is also fun. At 14 euros a day, you save with three
vaporetti rides, which is reasonable.
The new prices are an admitted effort on the part of the city to discourage
the many day tourists who spend no money, but cause millions of euros in
garbage, upkeep, and wear and tear. Not nice, perhaps, but tourists are not
what they used to be, and the city is seriously suffering from the excess --
15 plus million visitors a year to a city of about 60,000. 85% do not spend
the nite. They cause more damage than the water. I do not think, tho, that
the prices are going to have much effect. The city, by the way, has other
ideas about how to stop the flood of tourists: the Venice Card is a
compromise from an early plan to require all visitors to buy a pass just to
get into the city: like buying a ticket to a theme park. It may come to
that.
rjf
"Bill Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I see a Venice card is advertised as a "good" deal. Seems like it's
> price is not a good deal though. I don't remember the services covered
> by the card to be as expensive as the card itself.
> Any info would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Bill
There are two -- one covers just vaporetti and toilets, the other vaporetti,
toilets, plus a few museums. Both are much more expensive -- jolly
expensive, I think --than they used to be. Vaporetti are now 5 euros a
time-- it is nice to be able to ride them a lot -- they are fun and the
scenery is marvelous. But if money is tight, you can walk almost
everywhere -- which is also fun. At 14 euros a day, you save with three
vaporetti rides, which is reasonable.
The new prices are an admitted effort on the part of the city to discourage
the many day tourists who spend no money, but cause millions of euros in
garbage, upkeep, and wear and tear. Not nice, perhaps, but tourists are not
what they used to be, and the city is seriously suffering from the excess --
15 plus million visitors a year to a city of about 60,000. 85% do not spend
the nite. They cause more damage than the water. I do not think, tho, that
the prices are going to have much effect. The city, by the way, has other
ideas about how to stop the flood of tourists: the Venice Card is a
compromise from an early plan to require all visitors to buy a pass just to
get into the city: like buying a ticket to a theme park. It may come to
that.
rjf
"Bill Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I see a Venice card is advertised as a "good" deal. Seems like it's
> price is not a good deal though. I don't remember the services covered
> by the card to be as expensive as the card itself.
> Any info would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Bill
Aug 25th 2003 | 6:46 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Venice card worth it?
"Bob Fusillo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Take a look at www.venicecard.com
> There are two -- one covers just vaporetti and toilets, the other vaporetti,
> toilets, plus a few museums. Both are much more expensive -- jolly
> expensive, I think --than they used to be. Vaporetti are now 5 euros a
> time-- it is nice to be able to ride them a lot -- they are fun and the
> scenery is marvelous. But if money is tight, you can walk almost
> everywhere -- which is also fun. At 14 euros a day, you save with three
> vaporetti rides, which is reasonable.
> The new prices are an admitted effort on the part of the city to discourage
> the many day tourists who spend no money,
If that were the case the ticket would be available on a 'walk-up'
basis. Making it 'pre-booked' only is surely the best method one
could devise for making sure that few tourists actually buy it.
> but cause millions of euros in
> garbage, upkeep, and wear and tear. Not nice, perhaps, but tourists are not
> what they used to be, and the city is seriously suffering from the excess --
> 15 plus million visitors a year to a city of about 60,000. 85% do not spend
> the nite.
There must be a supply and demand thing going on here.
Many tourists don't spend money in Venice because the prices are
so high, but few buisness people would charge high prices if they
had no takers at that price. As the supply of 'hotels' etc in Venice
is limited by the locality there is likely to be some equilibrium between
the available space and the numbers using it.
They cause more damage than the water. I do not think, tho, that
> the prices are going to have much effect. The city, by the way, has other
> ideas about how to stop the flood of tourists:
There's something a little bit strange about the idea of "we have
somewhere so unique that everybody wants to come and see it but in
order to preserve it's uniqueness we have to bar everyone from coming"
> the Venice Card is a
> compromise from an early plan to require all visitors to buy a pass just to
> get into the city: like buying a ticket to a theme park. It may come to
> that.
might work, might not?
Tim
> rjf
> "Bill Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I see a Venice card is advertised as a "good" deal. Seems like it's
> > price is not a good deal though. I don't remember the services covered
> > by the card to be as expensive as the card itself.
> >
> > Any info would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
news:[email protected]...
> Take a look at www.venicecard.com
> There are two -- one covers just vaporetti and toilets, the other vaporetti,
> toilets, plus a few museums. Both are much more expensive -- jolly
> expensive, I think --than they used to be. Vaporetti are now 5 euros a
> time-- it is nice to be able to ride them a lot -- they are fun and the
> scenery is marvelous. But if money is tight, you can walk almost
> everywhere -- which is also fun. At 14 euros a day, you save with three
> vaporetti rides, which is reasonable.
> The new prices are an admitted effort on the part of the city to discourage
> the many day tourists who spend no money,
If that were the case the ticket would be available on a 'walk-up'
basis. Making it 'pre-booked' only is surely the best method one
could devise for making sure that few tourists actually buy it.
> but cause millions of euros in
> garbage, upkeep, and wear and tear. Not nice, perhaps, but tourists are not
> what they used to be, and the city is seriously suffering from the excess --
> 15 plus million visitors a year to a city of about 60,000. 85% do not spend
> the nite.
There must be a supply and demand thing going on here.
Many tourists don't spend money in Venice because the prices are
so high, but few buisness people would charge high prices if they
had no takers at that price. As the supply of 'hotels' etc in Venice
is limited by the locality there is likely to be some equilibrium between
the available space and the numbers using it.
They cause more damage than the water. I do not think, tho, that
> the prices are going to have much effect. The city, by the way, has other
> ideas about how to stop the flood of tourists:
There's something a little bit strange about the idea of "we have
somewhere so unique that everybody wants to come and see it but in
order to preserve it's uniqueness we have to bar everyone from coming"
> the Venice Card is a
> compromise from an early plan to require all visitors to buy a pass just to
> get into the city: like buying a ticket to a theme park. It may come to
> that.
might work, might not?
Tim
> rjf
> "Bill Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I see a Venice card is advertised as a "good" deal. Seems like it's
> > price is not a good deal though. I don't remember the services covered
> > by the card to be as expensive as the card itself.
> >
> > Any info would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
Aug 25th 2003 | 1:12 pm
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Venice card worth it?
Let me clarify a few things --
> > The new prices are an admitted effort on the part of the city to
discourage
> > the many day tourists who spend no money,
> If that were the case the ticket would be available on a 'walk-up'
> basis. Making it 'pre-booked' only is surely the best method one
> could devise for making sure that few tourists actually buy it.
By the new prices I meant the exorbitant 5 euros a trip fares. Venice Cards
are not selling like cheap pizza, but most day trippers need to ride the
vaporetto once or twice.
> Many tourists don't spend money in Venice because the prices are
> so high, but few buisness people would charge high prices if they
> had no takers at that price.
On a certain level, prices are not much higher than elswehere: pizza, wine,
sandwiches, soft drinks et al are about the same as in other towns -- and
those are the things that many day trippers aim at. But many draw the line
even at those: the town is full of young backpackers sitting in everybody's
way, eating food they brought with them. They really don't want to spend
anything! And they are legion during the spring to autumn. And the (
admittedly many) high prices are, to a real extent, a concommitant of the
physical structure. Everything has to be loaded onto boats, trafficked thru
town ( slowly, so as to not further disintegrate the foundations of
buildings), unloaded onto hand carts and trucked thru narrow streets and
over many bridges, and struggled up steep and very narrow stairs -- all of
that is very labor and time intensive.
Side-bar:The happy soul who moves to Venice sees all his furniture
unloaded and trucked and wiggled thru streets and up stairways too narrow
for much of it to survive, and then is hit with an exorbitant bill for all
the time and hassle. It is necessary to measure furniture carefully when one
is shopping -- a sofa in our flat had to taken apart to get it up the
narrow, 14th century, stairs. And the taker-aparters charged well for the
task. There are some streets that are too narrow for a sofa.
> There's something a little bit strange about the idea of "we have
> somewhere so unique that everybody wants to come and see it but in
> order to preserve it's uniqueness we have to bar everyone from coming"
In the last couple of decades it has transcended the preservation of
uniqueness alone -- they want to save the physical structure. The wear and
tear is doing a lot of damage. Although they don't advertise it, the city
fathers would be quite content with a third of the tourists they now get. If
the 11 million day trippers were to stay away, the city would save money and
the 4 million overnighters, who contribute most of the tourist income,
would be happier as well. There is a continuing push-pull with the
Venetians. They realize they live in a marvelous place that people want to
see, and they are proud of it. But they also live there, and want to have
the comforts of a town that they can feel at home in. Many Venetians do not
leave the house during the day because the crush of tourists makes getting
anywhere on those streets almost impossible. It is not a nice thing to
admit, but in the course of a day, one finds oneself hating the damned mob
that infests every cranny -- especially when you are trying to get to the
supermarket for the butter you forgot.
It is the most beautiful city in the world, dammit. The backpackers
rightfully want to see it. They are destroying the city. It is a problem
that will have to be solved. The city fathers are, typically, prone to argue
and discuss and stall, but when they take action, it appears to be drastic.
They have recently passed a law against sitting on the ground-- the police
are not enforcing it. They have passed a law against eating on the steps and
in the proximity of certain public buildings. The police are enforcing that
one.
rjf
> > The new prices are an admitted effort on the part of the city to
discourage
> > the many day tourists who spend no money,
> If that were the case the ticket would be available on a 'walk-up'
> basis. Making it 'pre-booked' only is surely the best method one
> could devise for making sure that few tourists actually buy it.
By the new prices I meant the exorbitant 5 euros a trip fares. Venice Cards
are not selling like cheap pizza, but most day trippers need to ride the
vaporetto once or twice.
> Many tourists don't spend money in Venice because the prices are
> so high, but few buisness people would charge high prices if they
> had no takers at that price.
On a certain level, prices are not much higher than elswehere: pizza, wine,
sandwiches, soft drinks et al are about the same as in other towns -- and
those are the things that many day trippers aim at. But many draw the line
even at those: the town is full of young backpackers sitting in everybody's
way, eating food they brought with them. They really don't want to spend
anything! And they are legion during the spring to autumn. And the (
admittedly many) high prices are, to a real extent, a concommitant of the
physical structure. Everything has to be loaded onto boats, trafficked thru
town ( slowly, so as to not further disintegrate the foundations of
buildings), unloaded onto hand carts and trucked thru narrow streets and
over many bridges, and struggled up steep and very narrow stairs -- all of
that is very labor and time intensive.
Side-bar:The happy soul who moves to Venice sees all his furniture
unloaded and trucked and wiggled thru streets and up stairways too narrow
for much of it to survive, and then is hit with an exorbitant bill for all
the time and hassle. It is necessary to measure furniture carefully when one
is shopping -- a sofa in our flat had to taken apart to get it up the
narrow, 14th century, stairs. And the taker-aparters charged well for the
task. There are some streets that are too narrow for a sofa.
> There's something a little bit strange about the idea of "we have
> somewhere so unique that everybody wants to come and see it but in
> order to preserve it's uniqueness we have to bar everyone from coming"
In the last couple of decades it has transcended the preservation of
uniqueness alone -- they want to save the physical structure. The wear and
tear is doing a lot of damage. Although they don't advertise it, the city
fathers would be quite content with a third of the tourists they now get. If
the 11 million day trippers were to stay away, the city would save money and
the 4 million overnighters, who contribute most of the tourist income,
would be happier as well. There is a continuing push-pull with the
Venetians. They realize they live in a marvelous place that people want to
see, and they are proud of it. But they also live there, and want to have
the comforts of a town that they can feel at home in. Many Venetians do not
leave the house during the day because the crush of tourists makes getting
anywhere on those streets almost impossible. It is not a nice thing to
admit, but in the course of a day, one finds oneself hating the damned mob
that infests every cranny -- especially when you are trying to get to the
supermarket for the butter you forgot.
It is the most beautiful city in the world, dammit. The backpackers
rightfully want to see it. They are destroying the city. It is a problem
that will have to be solved. The city fathers are, typically, prone to argue
and discuss and stall, but when they take action, it appears to be drastic.
They have recently passed a law against sitting on the ground-- the police
are not enforcing it. They have passed a law against eating on the steps and
in the proximity of certain public buildings. The police are enforcing that
one.
rjf
Aug 26th 2003 | 2:11 am
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Venice and tourism
From today's VeniceWord International,
NEWS. The Venetian association of hotels owners
announced their statistics for the 2003 season
and the results are in the red: 7.3% less than
the previous year and the tourists are spending
less and less. Tourism in Venice is in a
near-crisis state, and the hotels earned, on
average, 23,600 euros less than in 2002. "The
tourist that arrives in Venice has changed," a
hotel's owner said. "He doesn't spend much and
his credit card limits are lower. Often, he stays
in town for only a day and then leaves." Most
tourists are European, and the rich Americans and
Japanese (whose numbers are down 30%) have
changed their destinations.
NEWS. The Venetian association of hotels owners
announced their statistics for the 2003 season
and the results are in the red: 7.3% less than
the previous year and the tourists are spending
less and less. Tourism in Venice is in a
near-crisis state, and the hotels earned, on
average, 23,600 euros less than in 2002. "The
tourist that arrives in Venice has changed," a
hotel's owner said. "He doesn't spend much and
his credit card limits are lower. Often, he stays
in town for only a day and then leaves." Most
tourists are European, and the rich Americans and
Japanese (whose numbers are down 30%) have
changed their destinations.
Aug 27th 2003 | 5:23 am
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Venice card worth it?
"Bob Fusillo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Let me clarify a few things --
> > Many tourists don't spend money in Venice because the prices are
> > so high, but few buisness people would charge high prices if they
> > had no takers at that price.
> On a certain level, prices are not much higher than elswehere: pizza, wine,
> sandwiches, soft drinks et al are about the same as in other towns -- and
> those are the things that many day trippers aim at. But many draw the line
> even at those: the town is full of young backpackers sitting in everybody's
> way, eating food they brought with them.
But that's because they've all heard the story that a cup of coffee costs
10 dollars (or whatever) in the piazza san Marco and they think it's the
norm. If you want people to eat locally you have to do something to
counter this reputation
Tim
news:[email protected]...
> Let me clarify a few things --
> > Many tourists don't spend money in Venice because the prices are
> > so high, but few buisness people would charge high prices if they
> > had no takers at that price.
> On a certain level, prices are not much higher than elswehere: pizza, wine,
> sandwiches, soft drinks et al are about the same as in other towns -- and
> those are the things that many day trippers aim at. But many draw the line
> even at those: the town is full of young backpackers sitting in everybody's
> way, eating food they brought with them.
But that's because they've all heard the story that a cup of coffee costs
10 dollars (or whatever) in the piazza san Marco and they think it's the
norm. If you want people to eat locally you have to do something to
counter this reputation
Tim
Aug 28th 2003 | 2:32 am
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
For TIM
Tim,
I can't figure out the secret to your email address -- three returns so
far, so I am trying this.
Tim,
Let me note that, having spent years of my youth thumbing and hosteling
around Europe, I am in sympathy with the backpackers/day trippers( except
when they clutter the bridge so I can't get over it). But I don't think the
city fathers are very much in sympathy with them: the point is that they
spend very very little at best, leave litter and general unpleasantness,
don't use hotels, nice restaurants ( even those with 15 to 20 euro tourist
menus), and make life generally uncomfortable for residents and for the
tourists who spend the badly needed money. The myth that coffee costs a lot
is not enough, apparently, to keep them away. ( Try the Aurora, in S.
Marco's -- no music fee, and coffee is a lot cheaper than Starbucks).
The problem is not endemic, tho: a look at the Newsgroup shows that the
standard request is for info about cheapos. As I and others have noted,
cheap airfare, comparative freedom and sophistication amongst the young, the
irony that young people ( and many older) are fractionally well off enough
to travel, but not to splurge, and -- most importantly for the problem at
hand -- imbued with a philosophy once reserved for the "priveleged" that
they can do what they want and not worry about rules and other people, has
made for a very different tourist population than existed a generation ago--
or even a dozen years ago. They are insular, generally impolite, shaggy and
gross in dress and behavior, and, for some reason I can't figure out,
invariably without joy. Everyone everywhere in the tourist industry worries
about the effect of such an influx of ( and I won't use the words generally
used in the industry). Venice just happens to be one of the most fragile of
the places they invade/infest.
Bob
"tim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Bob Fusillo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Let me clarify a few things --
> >
> > > Many tourists don't spend money in Venice because the prices are
> > > so high, but few buisness people would charge high prices if they
> > > had no takers at that price.
> >
> > On a certain level, prices are not much higher than elswehere: pizza,
wine,
> > sandwiches, soft drinks et al are about the same as in other towns --
and
> > those are the things that many day trippers aim at. But many draw the
line
> > even at those: the town is full of young backpackers sitting in
everybody's
> > way, eating food they brought with them.
> But that's because they've all heard the story that a cup of coffee costs
> 10 dollars (or whatever) in the piazza san Marco and they think it's the
> norm. If you want people to eat locally you have to do something to
> counter this reputation
> Tim
I can't figure out the secret to your email address -- three returns so
far, so I am trying this.
Tim,
Let me note that, having spent years of my youth thumbing and hosteling
around Europe, I am in sympathy with the backpackers/day trippers( except
when they clutter the bridge so I can't get over it). But I don't think the
city fathers are very much in sympathy with them: the point is that they
spend very very little at best, leave litter and general unpleasantness,
don't use hotels, nice restaurants ( even those with 15 to 20 euro tourist
menus), and make life generally uncomfortable for residents and for the
tourists who spend the badly needed money. The myth that coffee costs a lot
is not enough, apparently, to keep them away. ( Try the Aurora, in S.
Marco's -- no music fee, and coffee is a lot cheaper than Starbucks).
The problem is not endemic, tho: a look at the Newsgroup shows that the
standard request is for info about cheapos. As I and others have noted,
cheap airfare, comparative freedom and sophistication amongst the young, the
irony that young people ( and many older) are fractionally well off enough
to travel, but not to splurge, and -- most importantly for the problem at
hand -- imbued with a philosophy once reserved for the "priveleged" that
they can do what they want and not worry about rules and other people, has
made for a very different tourist population than existed a generation ago--
or even a dozen years ago. They are insular, generally impolite, shaggy and
gross in dress and behavior, and, for some reason I can't figure out,
invariably without joy. Everyone everywhere in the tourist industry worries
about the effect of such an influx of ( and I won't use the words generally
used in the industry). Venice just happens to be one of the most fragile of
the places they invade/infest.
Bob
"tim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Bob Fusillo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Let me clarify a few things --
> >
> > > Many tourists don't spend money in Venice because the prices are
> > > so high, but few buisness people would charge high prices if they
> > > had no takers at that price.
> >
> > On a certain level, prices are not much higher than elswehere: pizza,
wine,
> > sandwiches, soft drinks et al are about the same as in other towns --
and
> > those are the things that many day trippers aim at. But many draw the
line
> > even at those: the town is full of young backpackers sitting in
everybody's
> > way, eating food they brought with them.
> But that's because they've all heard the story that a cup of coffee costs
> 10 dollars (or whatever) in the piazza san Marco and they think it's the
> norm. If you want people to eat locally you have to do something to
> counter this reputation
> Tim
Aug 28th 2003 | 4:30 am
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: For TIM
"Bob Fusillo" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:8oo3b.220191$Oz4.59069@rwcrnsc54...
> Tim,
> I can't figure out the secret to your email address -- three returns so
> far, so I am trying this.
Sorry, but even when you've taken out the rubbish it's my old one,
I got a new one when I moved house cos I was getting over
50 junk mails a day, mostly written in non standard script from Asia
I've kept the new one entirely secret cos I don't want it to start again!
Though I don't know why you think this should just be for me. The
attitude of the Venice City Father's should be for general consumption.
My only interest is in pointing out that they are fighting a losing battle,
unless they can charge an entry fee of some type, you can't keep
anyone out of a city and you can't force them to spend money, so
complaining that they don't do so is futile.
(the concern about the rubbish is another matter, perhaps a litter
police is called for)
Tim
> Tim,
> Let me note that, having spent years of my youth thumbing and hosteling
> around Europe, I am in sympathy with the backpackers/day trippers( except
> when they clutter the bridge so I can't get over it). But I don't think the
> city fathers are very much in sympathy with them: the point is that they
> spend very very little at best, leave litter and general unpleasantness,
> don't use hotels, nice restaurants ( even those with 15 to 20 euro tourist
> menus), and make life generally uncomfortable for residents and for the
> tourists who spend the badly needed money. The myth that coffee costs a lot
> is not enough, apparently, to keep them away. ( Try the Aurora, in S.
> Marco's -- no music fee, and coffee is a lot cheaper than Starbucks).
> The problem is not endemic, tho: a look at the Newsgroup shows that the
> standard request is for info about cheapos. As I and others have noted,
> cheap airfare, comparative freedom and sophistication amongst the young, the
> irony that young people ( and many older) are fractionally well off enough
> to travel, but not to splurge, and -- most importantly for the problem at
> hand -- imbued with a philosophy once reserved for the "priveleged" that
> they can do what they want and not worry about rules and other people, has
> made for a very different tourist population than existed a generation ago--
> or even a dozen years ago. They are insular, generally impolite, shaggy and
> gross in dress and behavior, and, for some reason I can't figure out,
> invariably without joy. Everyone everywhere in the tourist industry worries
> about the effect of such an influx of ( and I won't use the words generally
> used in the industry). Venice just happens to be one of the most fragile of
> the places they invade/infest.
>
> Bob
>
> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Bob Fusillo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Let me clarify a few things --
> > >
> >
> > > > Many tourists don't spend money in Venice because the prices are
> > > > so high, but few buisness people would charge high prices if they
> > > > had no takers at that price.
> > >
> > > On a certain level, prices are not much higher than elswehere: pizza,
> wine,
> > > sandwiches, soft drinks et al are about the same as in other towns --
> and
> > > those are the things that many day trippers aim at. But many draw the
> line
> > > even at those: the town is full of young backpackers sitting in
> everybody's
> > > way, eating food they brought with them.
> >
> > But that's because they've all heard the story that a cup of coffee costs
> > 10 dollars (or whatever) in the piazza san Marco and they think it's the
> > norm. If you want people to eat locally you have to do something to
> > counter this reputation
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
>
>
> Tim,
> I can't figure out the secret to your email address -- three returns so
> far, so I am trying this.
Sorry, but even when you've taken out the rubbish it's my old one,
I got a new one when I moved house cos I was getting over
50 junk mails a day, mostly written in non standard script from Asia
I've kept the new one entirely secret cos I don't want it to start again!
Though I don't know why you think this should just be for me. The
attitude of the Venice City Father's should be for general consumption.
My only interest is in pointing out that they are fighting a losing battle,
unless they can charge an entry fee of some type, you can't keep
anyone out of a city and you can't force them to spend money, so
complaining that they don't do so is futile.
(the concern about the rubbish is another matter, perhaps a litter
police is called for)
Tim
> Tim,
> Let me note that, having spent years of my youth thumbing and hosteling
> around Europe, I am in sympathy with the backpackers/day trippers( except
> when they clutter the bridge so I can't get over it). But I don't think the
> city fathers are very much in sympathy with them: the point is that they
> spend very very little at best, leave litter and general unpleasantness,
> don't use hotels, nice restaurants ( even those with 15 to 20 euro tourist
> menus), and make life generally uncomfortable for residents and for the
> tourists who spend the badly needed money. The myth that coffee costs a lot
> is not enough, apparently, to keep them away. ( Try the Aurora, in S.
> Marco's -- no music fee, and coffee is a lot cheaper than Starbucks).
> The problem is not endemic, tho: a look at the Newsgroup shows that the
> standard request is for info about cheapos. As I and others have noted,
> cheap airfare, comparative freedom and sophistication amongst the young, the
> irony that young people ( and many older) are fractionally well off enough
> to travel, but not to splurge, and -- most importantly for the problem at
> hand -- imbued with a philosophy once reserved for the "priveleged" that
> they can do what they want and not worry about rules and other people, has
> made for a very different tourist population than existed a generation ago--
> or even a dozen years ago. They are insular, generally impolite, shaggy and
> gross in dress and behavior, and, for some reason I can't figure out,
> invariably without joy. Everyone everywhere in the tourist industry worries
> about the effect of such an influx of ( and I won't use the words generally
> used in the industry). Venice just happens to be one of the most fragile of
> the places they invade/infest.
>
> Bob
>
> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Bob Fusillo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Let me clarify a few things --
> > >
> >
> > > > Many tourists don't spend money in Venice because the prices are
> > > > so high, but few buisness people would charge high prices if they
> > > > had no takers at that price.
> > >
> > > On a certain level, prices are not much higher than elswehere: pizza,
> wine,
> > > sandwiches, soft drinks et al are about the same as in other towns --
> and
> > > those are the things that many day trippers aim at. But many draw the
> line
> > > even at those: the town is full of young backpackers sitting in
> everybody's
> > > way, eating food they brought with them.
> >
> > But that's because they've all heard the story that a cup of coffee costs
> > 10 dollars (or whatever) in the piazza san Marco and they think it's the
> > norm. If you want people to eat locally you have to do something to
> > counter this reputation
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
>
>
