Frank F. Matthews

Caveat wrote:

    > Dillon Pyron <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>My nephew had a $400 charge on his card in Turkey. At approximately
    >>the same time he was having dinner in College Station. Too bad the
    >>bank didn't flag that transaction, it would have saved them (meaning
    >>the cardholders, as a group) the money.
    >
    >
    > That's an excellent example of what routinely happens if the credit
    > card banks can't screen charges, and an accurate point about who pays
    > for such fraudulent charges. The cardholder may feel that he is
    > covered by the $50 liability limit (with US banks) but all losses are
    > ultimately charged back to the cardholders as a group in the form of
    > higher interest rates, more penalty charges, etc., etc. And banks thus
    > burned will be quicker to refuse questionable charges, put holds on
    > legit charges that look suspicious, and even cancel accounts.
    >
    > Caveat


The problem is not screening charges or even putting check holds on
accounts. It is their unwillingness to ask for a call from the retailer
and do an instant check for the validity of the charge. Simply dumping
an account is unacceptable.

As I said only once per bank. There are plenty of reasonable cards out
there.

Caveat

"Frank F. Matthews" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The problem is not screening charges or even putting check holds on
    >accounts. It is their unwillingness to ask for a call from the retailer
    >and do an instant check for the validity of the charge.

Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

    >Simply dumping an account is unacceptable.

Agree, but I suspect that happens only rarely due to very unusual
circumstances. Most credit card companies want very much for you to
keep their cards, keep your account active, and will do everything in
their power to get you to use those cards as much as possible.

Caveat

Maisie

Interesting - I haven't had problems when I went somewhere and used the
card I booked the trip on to buy things but I don't know if that was
just luck; it seems like the card companies are cracking down quite a
bit more. What do you do in an emergency - if I need to suddenly fly
out to Florida tomorrow morning at 6 am because my mom is ill am I
going to find my cards won't work when I try to rent a car when I get
to the airport down there - or am I going to have to pay more every
month to get a special 'emergency' option on my card to cover problems
like this?

Carol
Editor - Lowfares.com
http://www.lowfares.com

Don Wiss

On 16 Apr 2006 16:04:39 -0700, "Maisie" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Interesting - I haven't had problems when I went somewhere and used the
    >card I booked the trip on to buy things but I don't know if that was
    >just luck; it seems like the card companies are cracking down quite a
    >bit more. What do you do in an emergency - if I need to suddenly fly
    >out to Florida tomorrow morning at 6 am because my mom is ill am I
    >going to find my cards won't work when I try to rent a car when I get
    >to the airport down there - or am I going to have to pay more every
    >month to get a special 'emergency' option on my card to cover problems
    >like this?

If you travel regularly you will have no problem. If you've had the card
for years and years and the card is all of a sudden used far away from home
they will become suspicious. And they may even pay attention to the
purchase of a plane ticket. Seeing one well in advance and then a
subsequent trip on the same card is not suspicious. It all has to do with
patterns.

Don <www.donwiss.com/pictures/#travel> (e-mail link at page bottoms).

Dillon Pyron

Thus spake Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> :

    >On 16 Apr 2006 16:04:39 -0700, "Maisie" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Interesting - I haven't had problems when I went somewhere and used the
    >>card I booked the trip on to buy things but I don't know if that was
    >>just luck; it seems like the card companies are cracking down quite a
    >>bit more. What do you do in an emergency - if I need to suddenly fly
    >>out to Florida tomorrow morning at 6 am because my mom is ill am I
    >>going to find my cards won't work when I try to rent a car when I get
    >>to the airport down there - or am I going to have to pay more every
    >>month to get a special 'emergency' option on my card to cover problems
    >>like this?
    >If you travel regularly you will have no problem. If you've had the card
    >for years and years and the card is all of a sudden used far away from home
    >they will become suspicious. And they may even pay attention to the
    >purchase of a plane ticket. Seeing one well in advance and then a
    >subsequent trip on the same card is not suspicious. It all has to do with
    >patterns.

My card's been flagged twice in the States due to "unusual" usage. In
both cases the merchant called the company or was called and I
exchanged information with the company.

By the way, when someone calls me like that and asks for my mother's
maiden name, I play the challenge and response game. "I'll tell you
the first letter if you tell me the last." I'm not giving that choice
piece of information out to someone who calls me. If I call them, I
know who I've called.

    >Don <www.donwiss.com/pictures/#travel> (e-mail link at page bottoms).
--
dillon

I didn't climb to the top of the
food chain to become a vegetartian.

Chrissy Cruiser

On 13 Apr 2006 07:06:16 -0700, Tchiowa wrote:

    > What kind of credit card company do you have that blocks you when you
    > use it overseas????? I travel with 3 credit cards and spend anywhere
    > from 60-95% of my time each year outside the US. I don't have problems
    > like that.

AMEX. MC and Visa. Everyone of them has done this.
--
http://www.punkvoter.com/anim/anim-idiot.html

Chrissy Cruiser

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:24:03 -0500, Dillon Pyron wrote:

    > Citibank flagged my card when I used it in Australia and LA in a ten
    > minute period. While I was on the phone with the fraud squad I told
    > them we were going to Oz and they made a note of it so there wouldn't
    > be any problems. Also notified the credit union so we could use our
    > ATM card.

I did the same but got to Aruba and they AMEX still killed the card.
--
http://www.punkvoter.com/anim/anim-idiot.html

Sapphyre

This happened to me once too... I was going to Florida to visit my aunt
and uncle (from Canada), the Thursday I used it around where I lived,
then the next time I used it was in Baltimore, just under a day later,
then in North Carolina at a gas station/rest stop, and when I got to
florida, and was buying some necessities at a drug store, that's when
the block showed up. I called the company, they told me that since I
managed to use it in a few different cities in a short time (two-three
days), they thought maybe my card had been stolen. I was on the
Greyhound, and used it a few times to save my cash, but there was no
apparent obvious pattern of where I was going, so as a safety, I had to
call them and discuss the situation.

I doubt my card company would block me if I travelled now. I frequently
use my card to make online purchases in various US cities. If I went to
the same sort of stores in person to buy stuff, it would fit with my
profile. I don't intend to use it much on my next vacation except when
necessary if I run low on cash (as temporary relief until I can get to
a bank), and to rent my car.

Sapphyre

Sapphyre

I wrote my own list for my upcoming travel... including GPS,
flashlight, cell phone (although not likely useful for most of my
travel), walkie-talkies (going to a busy place with a friend is a bitch
when you're afraid to get separated), maps, travel pillow and
discman/mp3 player.

When I used to travel more frequently, and lived alone... My dad would
take care of the cats, he'd get my mail, open anything that wasn't
personal, deposit cheques, pay bills, and towards the end of my trip,
he'd use debit to pay for some food so I wouldn't show up at home late
at night, with everything closed, and starve. Usually I ended up with a
bunch of non-expiry type of foods, but since I didn't have a car, I
much appreciated the 20 kg of kitty litter, cat chow, and other things
he'd do for me while I was away. In case anyone's wondering... I gave
my dad power of attorney so he and I both had an ATM card to my bank
account. We also had a system that he could transfer money to my VISA
(either from my account or a loan), so I wouldn't get into a sticky
situation... so my bacon's been saved a few times.

Aside from that help... my landlord knew I was away, so he wouldn't
attempt to cash my rent until I called to confirm my pay had been
deposited into my account. We were punctual, but I wouldn't want to
have a cheque bounce while I was away. I was not one for direct deposit
back then... My longest time away was 11 weeks, so having a lot of help
making sure bills were paid was very handy. Not something I'd have been
able to do if I hadn't trusted someone to look at my mail.

The neighbours never knew if I was around or not, they never saw much
of me anyway... I'd come home and they'd say "long time no see" as if
I'd just been keeping to myself for a while. I didn't see the need to
tell them I was spending much time away from home. when I got to trust
one of my neighbours who had me "house sit" frequently, he kept an eye
on my place from the outside, just in case I had a break in. My dad has
always been the only person with keys.

Sapphyre

Tchiowa

Chrissy Cruiser wrote:
    > On 13 Apr 2006 07:06:16 -0700, Tchiowa wrote:
    > > What kind of credit card company do you have that blocks you when you
    > > use it overseas????? I travel with 3 credit cards and spend anywhere
    > > from 60-95% of my time each year outside the US. I don't have problems
    > > like that.
    > AMEX. MC and Visa. Everyone of them has done this.

Go slap your bank around. Then change banks. I have made charges on my
MC and Visa on 3 different continents within a few days without
problems. In one situation I used it in Frankfurt, Germany on a
Tuesday, New York and Houston on a Wednesday, Houston and San Francisco
on Friday and Bangkok, Thailand on Sunday. I use my bank ATM all over
the world. And I'm not unique in doing that. If your bank is giving you
problems, change banks.

Vera Izrailit

In rec.travel.asia Dave Smith <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Sometimes abnormally large and unusual purchases put up flags.

Happened to me once. They never gave me trouble for using the cards all over the world,
but when I bought a computer on it they suddenly closed it and decided to call me at
home in the US, despite the fact that a) I bought it in Finland and b) they knew that
I spent most of my time in Finland.

Maybe they have learned to use email already, that was a while ago in 1998 or thereabouts.

--
Vera Izrailit

Rak

"Tchiowa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > Chrissy Cruiser wrote:
    >> On 13 Apr 2006 07:06:16 -0700, Tchiowa wrote:
    >> > What kind of credit card company do you have that blocks you when you
    >> > use it overseas????? I travel with 3 credit cards and spend anywhere
    >> > from 60-95% of my time each year outside the US. I don't have problems
    >> > like that.
    >> AMEX. MC and Visa. Everyone of them has done this.
    > Go slap your bank around. Then change banks. I have made charges on my
    > MC and Visa on 3 different continents within a few days without
    > problems. In one situation I used it in Frankfurt, Germany on a
    > Tuesday, New York and Houston on a Wednesday, Houston and San Francisco
    > on Friday and Bangkok, Thailand on Sunday. I use my bank ATM all over
    > the world. And I'm not unique in doing that. If your bank is giving you
    > problems, change banks.
Sometimes there are good reasons for doing it, when travel patterns seem
unlikely or impossible.
My bank has called me several times e.g. :
- when I used the same card in 3 countries in a day on 2 continents
(genuine, I was flying and in transit)
- when my card was used for large purchases in Australia (card cloning
fraud, I had not been there for over a year, and they cancelled the
purchases and replaced the card)
- a few times they have called me in the shop to verify identification
details, e.g. when buying a PC in an airport.
They rarely if ever call for transactions in my usual countries.

Of course it does not help if they call you in the wrong country or not at
all.
If I am doing any very unusual travel I sometimes email the bank to tell
them, they put it on record and then should not block the card.
I would prefer a bank which checks on unlikely spending patterns to one
which accepts any charges against my account.

One bank did have a system of blocking cards after any retail use in
Indonesia (high fraud area) which was a serious nuisance, but after
discussions they put a note on my file to stop that happening.


*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Chilly

"Caveat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Dubiously Fragrant Muffin <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
    > wrote:
    > >On 13 Apr 2006 07:06:16 -0700, "Tchiowa" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>Ade wrote:
    > >>> I'd certainly vouch for informing bank/credit card company - having
    > >>> been stuck in the US with little cash, credit card not working (for
the
    > >>> simple fact that it was being used abroad so CC company put a block on
    > >>> it), 7 hour time difference making it very difficult to call the bank
    > >>> at home to resolve. Bank recommended that we inform them in future,
    > >>> have done this and no problems since then.
    > >>What kind of credit card company do you have that blocks you when you
    > >>use it overseas?????
    > >Lloyds TSB did that to me. They had all my contact details, and could
    > >have simply called me on my (UK) mobile phone or sent me an email, but
    > >instead they just cancelled my card and left me to deal with the
    > >consequences of being in Hong Kong with no access to my money.
    > Wouldn't it be better to simply let the credit card company know in
    > advance where you will be traveling in the world and during what
    > periods? That's what we do here, and have never had a problem.

It hasn't always helped me. I've notified them and still been shut down.
At the bank, I was advised that I needed to call my card company and/or my
bank. The problem with that was that there was no phone service.

Fortunately for me, I had enough cash/TC's to take care of myself for the
remainder of my trip, but I had to put my dives on my credit card. I'd been
trying to avoid that because the government of that country required a 12%
tax be included. Don't ask me to explain this because I can not. In any
event, if you paid cash there was no tax. What I'd been trying to do was
get a cash advance (which didn't incur the 12% tax for some reason) so that
I could pay cash for the dives and not incur the additional tax.

In the end, I really appreciated the people at the dive shop. They knew my
card had as much as been refused at the bank, but still allowed me to pay
with the same card the day before I headed home. I left all of my contact
info with the dive shop and as soon as I hit Houston, I called my credit
card company to make sure that they processed the payment. Then I emailed
the dive shop to tell them that I'd done that and that all should be in
order. I never heard back and the charges went through with no problem.

While I was talking to the credit card company, I express my dismay that I
had forewarned them that I would be travelling and where. They told me that
it makes little difference because the advise from me would not
automatically show up for the transaction. That left me wondering what is
the point in calling in advance.

Chris Blunt

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:04:27 GMT, "chilly" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    > I'd been
    >trying to avoid that because the government of that country required a 12%
    >tax be included. Don't ask me to explain this because I can not. In any
    >event, if you paid cash there was no tax. What I'd been trying to do was
    >get a cash advance (which didn't incur the 12% tax for some reason) so that
    >I could pay cash for the dives and not incur the additional tax.

The 12% tax almost certainly *should* have been paid, even when paying
in cash. The dive company was probably avoiding the tax by omitting
the transaction from their accounts and pocketing the cash without
declaring it to the authorities. That's a common tax evasion trick in
many places.

Which country did this happen in?

Chris

Caveat

"chilly" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >"Caveat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> >Lloyds TSB did that to me. They had all my contact details, and could
    >> >have simply called me on my (UK) mobile phone or sent me an email, but
    >> >instead they just cancelled my card and left me to deal with the
    >> >consequences of being in Hong Kong with no access to my money.

    >> Wouldn't it be better to simply let the credit card company know in
    >> advance where you will be traveling in the world and during what
    >> periods? That's what we do here, and have never had a problem.

    >It hasn't always helped me. I've notified them and still been shut down.
    >At the bank, I was advised that I needed to call my card company and/or my
    >bank. The problem with that was that there was no phone service.

OK, I guess it can get quite complicated depending upon the anti-fraud
measures that the particular bank/credit card brand/ processing
subcontractors have in place. Plus it changes with some regularity, I
suspect. And there are probably charges from certain countries or to
of accounts that get more scrutiny.

FWIW, I just went through the notification process for an upcoming
trip to New Zealand and beyond. Our "bank" is a local credit union, so
that might make things easier than dealing with something like
Citibank. But I just dropped in, talked to one of the account
representatives, told him our destinations and dates, and he put it in
the computer. That was all it took to cover our Visa card and our ATM
debit cards for this trip, I thought, and has worked fine in the past.

Because of this thread, however, I lingered and asked him to explain
what actually happens with that information he entered, and how that
worked with the larger screening that other associated entities do
when charges actually are made. It turns out that it is very
complicated. Two different outside companies process credit card
versus debit card charges, and each has its own system and screening
mechanisms. (And any other bank may use different processing companies
with very different rules and procedures. So YMMV.)

Before the above processors handle the transaction, however , the
charges first pass through the VISA system. But despite the fact that
both the credit card and debit card carry a VISA logo, each goes
through a different path, with different screening parameters,
including past charge patterns. If fraud is suspected, a hold is put
on that card and it cannot be used until the hold is released.

In all of the above cases, the initial screening is done by computer
models that have lots of flags that check numerous factors -- any of
which could refuse the charge without human intervention. These
include flagged bogus businesses, charges that go over your card
limits, daily activity limits, or bank balances (in the case of debit
cards), and much more that they are apparently unwilling to disclose.

If the attempted charge gets through the initial go-no go screens, it
is screened for suspicious activity. If something triggers a flag
there, an "alert" is instantly sent to the issuing bank. There, the
alert is addressed by a person at a terminal (at least in our case)
who checks the computer record to see if that cardholder told them
about being in that country at that time. That is the point at which
the charge is either approved, based on the information they have, or
needs to be further verified with the holder of the card as being a
legit charge.

This is where it can get dicey because the verifier may be backlogged,
off duty, in the potty room, or the account holder may be out of phone
contact, the line may be busy, it might be in a different time zone,
or the charger has long since left the business when the charge was
attempted, or whatever. That's why they say it is best to give them
the information in advance of any trip so that a charge can be
instantly cleared at that alert level.

Thus having heard the complicated story above, and given the local
bank the trip dates and destinations, I went back home and proceeded
to reserve three different rental cars for the places we would be
going. Turns out that debit cards are not acceptable by some rental
companies for the deposit or bond, so the VISA credit card number was
asked for. Potential problem: a hold would be attempted by a business
in a country where I was not scheduled to be for another month.

Sooo, I called the VISA phone number on the back of the card and they
said, yes, I needed to notify them in advance of such a large hold on
the account or it might not be approved. So I did, they put a note in
their computer about the anticipated charge, all went well.

At least so far...


Caveat






    >Fortunately for me, I had enough cash/TC's to take care of myself for the
    >remainder of my trip, but I had to put my dives on my credit card. I'd been
    >trying to avoid that because the government of that country required a 12%
    >tax be included. Don't ask me to explain this because I can not. In any
    >event, if you paid cash there was no tax. What I'd been trying to do was
    >get a cash advance (which didn't incur the 12% tax for some reason) so that
    >I could pay cash for the dives and not incur the additional tax.
    >In the end, I really appreciated the people at the dive shop. They knew my
    >card had as much as been refused at the bank, but still allowed me to pay
    >with the same card the day before I headed home. I left all of my contact
    >info with the dive shop and as soon as I hit Houston, I called my credit
    >card company to make sure that they processed the payment. Then I emailed
    >the dive shop to tell them that I'd done that and that all should be in
    >order. I never heard back and the charges went through with no problem.
    >While I was talking to the credit card company, I express my dismay that I
    >had forewarned them that I would be travelling and where. They told me that
    >it makes little difference because the advise from me would not
    >automatically show up for the transaction. That left me wondering what is
    >the point in calling in advance.