Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
May 10th 2003, 2:30 pm
#91
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
In article , [email protected] (Mark
Brader) wrote:
> It is reasonable to charge extra for last-minute
> travel, because providing it requires the company to operate seats
> that may go empty.
Only if they hold back seats for last-minute travellers (ie their
policy is to refuse to sell them earlier even if there is demand).
> Okay, suppose the company had found that
> their female customers are more likely then males to find the cost
> of travel objectionable, and decided it was good marketing to charge
> men 25% more than women for the identical trip. That's an example
> of a cheaper fare with "certain restrictions" -- is it reasonable,
> or is it offensive?
What about adult fares costing more than child fares?
Brader) wrote:
> It is reasonable to charge extra for last-minute
> travel, because providing it requires the company to operate seats
> that may go empty.
Only if they hold back seats for last-minute travellers (ie their
policy is to refuse to sell them earlier even if there is demand).
> Okay, suppose the company had found that
> their female customers are more likely then males to find the cost
> of travel objectionable, and decided it was good marketing to charge
> men 25% more than women for the identical trip. That's an example
> of a cheaper fare with "certain restrictions" -- is it reasonable,
> or is it offensive?
What about adult fares costing more than child fares?
May 10th 2003, 8:14 pm
#92
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
"Percy Picacity" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> PeteM wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> > nightjar@?.? alleged:
> >>
> >>That still perpetuates the misunderstanding that a return trip is
> >>a composite of two single trips, rather than a separate service
> >>existing in its own right.
> >
> > Leaving aside the legalities, why *do* they do this? What is the
> > commercial advantage to Eurotunnel in doing so?
> >
> People who don't need to go to France, and could not justify the full
> commercial cost of the trip will take a cheap day out and fill empty
> seats while providing a small marginal income to the railway company.
> These are additional travellers who would not travel to France at all
> if the full fare prevailed.
> Such fares are common practice in the airline industry. At one stage, I
> could get a cheap return flight from US to UK cheaper than any single
> flight to US. But I would not be able to use the return half unless I
> made the outward journey. There is no law of nature or commerce saying
> that everyone has to be charged the same price for the same journey!
> --
> Percy Picacity
My friend and I were supposed to go to Edinburgh . FLight delayed then
cancelled. Was offered an alternate flight the following day or money back.
Took money back. Asked airline about any other destinations we could get to
and went to Amsterdam for two nights on a cheeapo return thingy which cost
us less the 50 notes between us. Oh and it was BA as well
news:[email protected]...
> PeteM wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> > nightjar@?.? alleged:
> >>
> >>That still perpetuates the misunderstanding that a return trip is
> >>a composite of two single trips, rather than a separate service
> >>existing in its own right.
> >
> > Leaving aside the legalities, why *do* they do this? What is the
> > commercial advantage to Eurotunnel in doing so?
> >
> People who don't need to go to France, and could not justify the full
> commercial cost of the trip will take a cheap day out and fill empty
> seats while providing a small marginal income to the railway company.
> These are additional travellers who would not travel to France at all
> if the full fare prevailed.
> Such fares are common practice in the airline industry. At one stage, I
> could get a cheap return flight from US to UK cheaper than any single
> flight to US. But I would not be able to use the return half unless I
> made the outward journey. There is no law of nature or commerce saying
> that everyone has to be charged the same price for the same journey!
> --
> Percy Picacity
My friend and I were supposed to go to Edinburgh . FLight delayed then
cancelled. Was offered an alternate flight the following day or money back.
Took money back. Asked airline about any other destinations we could get to
and went to Amsterdam for two nights on a cheeapo return thingy which cost
us less the 50 notes between us. Oh and it was BA as well
May 12th 2003, 3:10 pm
#93
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
On Sat, 10 May 2003 00:04:39 GMT, [email protected] (Mark Brader) wrote:
>Colin Bignell:
>> What is offensive about being able to buy cheap return fares, subject
>> to certain restrictions, at less than the single fare price?
>Many of us feel that prices should in some way relate to the cost
>of providing the goods or services offered, and that anything else
>is offensive.
Why? There are many examples where the same thing is offered for
completely different prices. Are you offended when a shop has a sale
and you can buy an item today for half the price it was offered
yesterday?
You will notice that people selling goods at a car-boot sale will
often reduce the price they are asking as the day wears on. If they
cannot get the correct value for the goods, they would rather get
*something* than not make the sale at all.
How about the reduction in price of supermarket food that is
approaching its "sell by" date? Fresh food costs the same to produce
as the food that is becoming stale.
The situation of course is that the supermarket knows that if it does
not sell the food *today*, it will have to throw it away tomorrow and
get nothing for it. Therefore, *any* money it can get is better than
nothing. That does not mean that it should be obliged to sell its
fresh food at the same price. The supermarket knows that many
customers will not want to use food that is approaching its sell-by
date, and so will pay the extra for food that they need.
In short, our market system is such that the cost of items is *not*
related to production cost, but to whatever the consumer is willing to
pay. Except that on average a company must cover its cost of
production in sales.
Eurotunnel realise that it cannot fill its trains with people who have
a strong need to use its services. Therefore it is likely to have to
"throw away" many seats, just as the supermarket would have to throw
away its stale food.
It therefore tried to figure out a way to get *some* income from those
otherwise empty seats, whilst not reducing the income from the other
travellers. It hit on the "day return" scheme. Most of the seats it
was selling was to people who needed to stay for some time. People
who would otherwise not have travelled at all could perhaps be lured
into filling seats by the offer of a cheap trip that the full-fare
travellers would not be able to take advantage of.
Airlines have similar schemes in order to get some income from seats
that would otherwise be empty. If *all* passengers paid the cheap
price, the service would be operating at a considerable loss.
--
Cynic
>Colin Bignell:
>> What is offensive about being able to buy cheap return fares, subject
>> to certain restrictions, at less than the single fare price?
>Many of us feel that prices should in some way relate to the cost
>of providing the goods or services offered, and that anything else
>is offensive.
Why? There are many examples where the same thing is offered for
completely different prices. Are you offended when a shop has a sale
and you can buy an item today for half the price it was offered
yesterday?
You will notice that people selling goods at a car-boot sale will
often reduce the price they are asking as the day wears on. If they
cannot get the correct value for the goods, they would rather get
*something* than not make the sale at all.
How about the reduction in price of supermarket food that is
approaching its "sell by" date? Fresh food costs the same to produce
as the food that is becoming stale.
The situation of course is that the supermarket knows that if it does
not sell the food *today*, it will have to throw it away tomorrow and
get nothing for it. Therefore, *any* money it can get is better than
nothing. That does not mean that it should be obliged to sell its
fresh food at the same price. The supermarket knows that many
customers will not want to use food that is approaching its sell-by
date, and so will pay the extra for food that they need.
In short, our market system is such that the cost of items is *not*
related to production cost, but to whatever the consumer is willing to
pay. Except that on average a company must cover its cost of
production in sales.
Eurotunnel realise that it cannot fill its trains with people who have
a strong need to use its services. Therefore it is likely to have to
"throw away" many seats, just as the supermarket would have to throw
away its stale food.
It therefore tried to figure out a way to get *some* income from those
otherwise empty seats, whilst not reducing the income from the other
travellers. It hit on the "day return" scheme. Most of the seats it
was selling was to people who needed to stay for some time. People
who would otherwise not have travelled at all could perhaps be lured
into filling seats by the offer of a cheap trip that the full-fare
travellers would not be able to take advantage of.
Airlines have similar schemes in order to get some income from seats
that would otherwise be empty. If *all* passengers paid the cheap
price, the service would be operating at a considerable loss.
--
Cynic
May 12th 2003, 6:00 pm
#94
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
In message , PeteM
writes
>Leaving aside the legalities, why *do* they do this? What is the
>commercial advantage to Eurotunnel in doing so?
It does not cost Eurotunnel anything like GBP9 to transport a few extra
cars on a double deck train a quarter of a mile long!! It also promotes
trade, either side of the channel, as my example shows.
Had an afternoon trip in late march with le shuttle for GBP9 - left at
1:00p.m and got back at 10:30 p.m. - and that's for up to 5 people and a
car !! And they are still doing I believe, last time I looked on their
website. Even as a non smoker, I saved easily the GBP9 fare on petrol
and food and drink shopping.
As to the reason why you cannot beat the system, short of changing your
car or number plates, accept it for what it is - a very cheap day out,
where you can save more than the fare on cheaper petrol and cheaper
booze and food etc. Plus if its a force 9 gale in the channel, you get
a very smooth crossing. Very reassuring on the way back after a good
meal.
Eurotunnel are happy because you presumably shop at their retail
outlets, both sides of the tunnel, also the trains are fuller during
their slack periods. That's why you have book at least 24 hours in
advance by credit card. If the trains get busy, the cheap fares are no
suddenly longer available.
--
Peter Jones
writes
>Leaving aside the legalities, why *do* they do this? What is the
>commercial advantage to Eurotunnel in doing so?
It does not cost Eurotunnel anything like GBP9 to transport a few extra
cars on a double deck train a quarter of a mile long!! It also promotes
trade, either side of the channel, as my example shows.
Had an afternoon trip in late march with le shuttle for GBP9 - left at
1:00p.m and got back at 10:30 p.m. - and that's for up to 5 people and a
car !! And they are still doing I believe, last time I looked on their
website. Even as a non smoker, I saved easily the GBP9 fare on petrol
and food and drink shopping.
As to the reason why you cannot beat the system, short of changing your
car or number plates, accept it for what it is - a very cheap day out,
where you can save more than the fare on cheaper petrol and cheaper
booze and food etc. Plus if its a force 9 gale in the channel, you get
a very smooth crossing. Very reassuring on the way back after a good
meal.
Eurotunnel are happy because you presumably shop at their retail
outlets, both sides of the tunnel, also the trains are fuller during
their slack periods. That's why you have book at least 24 hours in
advance by credit card. If the trains get busy, the cheap fares are no
suddenly longer available.
--
Peter Jones
May 12th 2003, 6:03 pm
#95
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
In message , Percy Picacity
writes
>People who don't need to go to France, and could not justify the full
>commercial cost of the trip will take a cheap day out and fill empty
>seats while providing a small marginal income to the railway company.
>These are additional travellers who would not travel to France at all
>if the full fare prevailed.
Le Shuttle does not provide "seats", only spaces for cars. You sit in
your car, or can stand around beside your vehicle, for the duration of
the crossing - 35 minutes.
--
Peter Jones
writes
>People who don't need to go to France, and could not justify the full
>commercial cost of the trip will take a cheap day out and fill empty
>seats while providing a small marginal income to the railway company.
>These are additional travellers who would not travel to France at all
>if the full fare prevailed.
Le Shuttle does not provide "seats", only spaces for cars. You sit in
your car, or can stand around beside your vehicle, for the duration of
the crossing - 35 minutes.
--
Peter Jones
May 13th 2003, 1:54 pm
#96
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
On Mon, 12 May 2003 19:03:35 +0100, Peter Jones
wrote:
>>People who don't need to go to France, and could not justify the full
>>commercial cost of the trip will take a cheap day out and fill empty
>>seats while providing a small marginal income to the railway company.
>>These are additional travellers who would not travel to France at all
>>if the full fare prevailed.
>Le Shuttle does not provide "seats", only spaces for cars. You sit in
>your car, or can stand around beside your vehicle, for the duration of
>the crossing - 35 minutes.
OK, I am not familiar with the details as I have not used the service.
The same principle applies - substitute "car spaces" for "seats".
--
Cynic
wrote:
>>People who don't need to go to France, and could not justify the full
>>commercial cost of the trip will take a cheap day out and fill empty
>>seats while providing a small marginal income to the railway company.
>>These are additional travellers who would not travel to France at all
>>if the full fare prevailed.
>Le Shuttle does not provide "seats", only spaces for cars. You sit in
>your car, or can stand around beside your vehicle, for the duration of
>the crossing - 35 minutes.
OK, I am not familiar with the details as I have not used the service.
The same principle applies - substitute "car spaces" for "seats".
--
Cynic
May 13th 2003, 1:57 pm
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
On Mon, 12 May 2003 19:00:51 +0100, Peter Jones
wrote:
>>Leaving aside the legalities, why *do* they do this? What is the
>>commercial advantage to Eurotunnel in doing so?
>It does not cost Eurotunnel anything like GBP9 to transport a few extra
>cars on a double deck train a quarter of a mile long!! It also promotes
>trade, either side of the channel, as my example shows.
You seem to forget that they also have to pay for the original
construction and upkeep of the tunnel.
--
Cynic
wrote:
>>Leaving aside the legalities, why *do* they do this? What is the
>>commercial advantage to Eurotunnel in doing so?
>It does not cost Eurotunnel anything like GBP9 to transport a few extra
>cars on a double deck train a quarter of a mile long!! It also promotes
>trade, either side of the channel, as my example shows.
You seem to forget that they also have to pay for the original
construction and upkeep of the tunnel.
--
Cynic
