Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
May 3rd 2003, 1:09 am
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
On Fri, 02 May 2003 21:05:23 +0100, 666 wrote:
> In article ,
> A.Melon wrote:
>
>> I've noticed that www.eurotunnel.com offers some 'day returns' and
>> 'weekend specials' that are much cheaper than single from Dover to
>> Calais, so I could save quite a bit of money by buying one of those,
>> not using the return journey, and getting a single from Calais to
>> Dover later.
>>
>> But their T&Cs say 'For return bookings failure to complete both
>> outward and return journeys invalidates your booking and you will be
>> liable to pay for the journey completed, the difference the price and
>> the relevant applicable single fare.'
>>
>> * Is this an 'unfair contract term' which would be invalid?
>
> No.
>>
>> * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
>> difference,
>
> Yes. Their contracts specifically authorise this.
Contract with whom?
> In article ,
> A.Melon wrote:
>
>> I've noticed that www.eurotunnel.com offers some 'day returns' and
>> 'weekend specials' that are much cheaper than single from Dover to
>> Calais, so I could save quite a bit of money by buying one of those,
>> not using the return journey, and getting a single from Calais to
>> Dover later.
>>
>> But their T&Cs say 'For return bookings failure to complete both
>> outward and return journeys invalidates your booking and you will be
>> liable to pay for the journey completed, the difference the price and
>> the relevant applicable single fare.'
>>
>> * Is this an 'unfair contract term' which would be invalid?
>
> No.
>>
>> * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
>> difference,
>
> Yes. Their contracts specifically authorise this.
Contract with whom?
May 3rd 2003, 1:18 am
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
In message , Harry the Horse
writes
>"-=^OmeN^=-" wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In message , Harry the Horse
>> writes
>> >nightjar wrote:
>> >> "A.Melon" wrote in message
>> >> news:8ad9bdb5fb453d114954ef61ea5b75d...raffickers.com...
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >>> * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
>> >>> difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
>> >>
>> >> If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card
>> >> would be the usual way to recover it.
>> >>
>> >So best not to pay by credit or debit card then.
>> >
>> P&O Ferries charge you more money if you pay cash, to get around that
>> loophole, not sure bout the tunnel, it's way tooooooo expensive so I
>> never use it.
>Best not to travel at all then. France is shit. But at least it's not the
>United States.
France is not merde, only the pavements where the dog owners allow their
chien to foul at will. Apart from that, I found countryside and small
towns around Calais and Boulogne clean and tidy, no litter whatsoever,
no mindless graffiti or vandalism, no plastic bags hanging in the trees.
Good food and service at reasonable prices. French very friendly.
Had an afternoon trip in late march with le shuttle for GBP9 - left at
1:00p.m and got back at 10:30 p.m. - for up to 5 people and a car !! And
their still doing I believe, last time I looked on their website.
As to the reason why you cannot beat the system, short of changing your
car or number plates, accept it for what it is - a very cheap day out,
where you can save more than the fare on cheaper petrol (11p a litre
cheaper) and cheaper booze and food etc. Plus if its a force 9 gale in
the channel, you get a very smooth crossing. Very reassuring on the way
back after a good meal.
Eurotunnel are happy because you presumably shop at their retail
outlets, both sides of the tunnel, also the trains are fuller during
their slack periods. That's why you have book at least 24 hours in
advance by credit card. If the trains are busy, the cheap fares are no
longer available.
--
Peter Jones
writes
>"-=^OmeN^=-" wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In message , Harry the Horse
>> writes
>> >nightjar wrote:
>> >> "A.Melon" wrote in message
>> >> news:8ad9bdb5fb453d114954ef61ea5b75d...raffickers.com...
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >>> * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
>> >>> difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
>> >>
>> >> If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card
>> >> would be the usual way to recover it.
>> >>
>> >So best not to pay by credit or debit card then.
>> >
>> P&O Ferries charge you more money if you pay cash, to get around that
>> loophole, not sure bout the tunnel, it's way tooooooo expensive so I
>> never use it.
>Best not to travel at all then. France is shit. But at least it's not the
>United States.
France is not merde, only the pavements where the dog owners allow their
chien to foul at will. Apart from that, I found countryside and small
towns around Calais and Boulogne clean and tidy, no litter whatsoever,
no mindless graffiti or vandalism, no plastic bags hanging in the trees.
Good food and service at reasonable prices. French very friendly.
Had an afternoon trip in late march with le shuttle for GBP9 - left at
1:00p.m and got back at 10:30 p.m. - for up to 5 people and a car !! And
their still doing I believe, last time I looked on their website.
As to the reason why you cannot beat the system, short of changing your
car or number plates, accept it for what it is - a very cheap day out,
where you can save more than the fare on cheaper petrol (11p a litre
cheaper) and cheaper booze and food etc. Plus if its a force 9 gale in
the channel, you get a very smooth crossing. Very reassuring on the way
back after a good meal.
Eurotunnel are happy because you presumably shop at their retail
outlets, both sides of the tunnel, also the trains are fuller during
their slack periods. That's why you have book at least 24 hours in
advance by credit card. If the trains are busy, the cheap fares are no
longer available.
--
Peter Jones
May 3rd 2003, 9:54 am
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
"Jonathan Bryce" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> wrote:
> > If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card would
> > be the usual way to recover it.
> And if I reported it as fraud to my cc co, what would happen? Bearing in
> mind that they would have to prove on the balance of probabilities that I
> did not make the journey back.
All number plates are logged, so I don't see that providing proof would be
that difficult.
Colin Bignell
news:[email protected]...
> wrote:
> > If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card would
> > be the usual way to recover it.
> And if I reported it as fraud to my cc co, what would happen? Bearing in
> mind that they would have to prove on the balance of probabilities that I
> did not make the journey back.
All number plates are logged, so I don't see that providing proof would be
that difficult.
Colin Bignell
May 3rd 2003, 9:55 am
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
"devil" wrote in message
news
[email protected]...
> On Fri, 02 May 2003 14:51:28 +0100, nightja wrote:
> >> * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
> >> difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
> >
> > If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card would
be
> > the usual way to recover it.
> Although the charge is not going to stick if I contest it.
In which case they would have to start debt recovery procedures and quite
possibly would add the cost of those to your debt.
Colin Bignell
news
[email protected]...> On Fri, 02 May 2003 14:51:28 +0100, nightja wrote:
> >> * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
> >> difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
> >
> > If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card would
be
> > the usual way to recover it.
> Although the charge is not going to stick if I contest it.
In which case they would have to start debt recovery procedures and quite
possibly would add the cost of those to your debt.
Colin Bignell
May 3rd 2003, 10:44 am
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Jonathan Bryce" wrote in
message
> news:[email protected]...
> > wrote:
> >
> > > If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card
would
> > > be the usual way to recover it.
> >
> > And if I reported it as fraud to my cc co, what would happen? Bearing
in
> > mind that they would have to prove on the balance of probabilities that
I
> > did not make the journey back.
> All number plates are logged, so I don't see that providing proof would be
> that difficult.
A driver in front of me returning to England from Calais Eurotunnel terminal
was turned away, on the ground that he tried to use two day-return tickets
back-to-back. He was ranting and raving, but they wouldn't budge. A long
line formed behind him, and most had to reverse out and join another
tollbooth. So they do log car details and can turn you away or charge full
single price (over £100). Other operators are the same.
Alec
news:[email protected]...
> "Jonathan Bryce" wrote in
message
> news:[email protected]...
> > wrote:
> >
> > > If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card
would
> > > be the usual way to recover it.
> >
> > And if I reported it as fraud to my cc co, what would happen? Bearing
in
> > mind that they would have to prove on the balance of probabilities that
I
> > did not make the journey back.
> All number plates are logged, so I don't see that providing proof would be
> that difficult.
A driver in front of me returning to England from Calais Eurotunnel terminal
was turned away, on the ground that he tried to use two day-return tickets
back-to-back. He was ranting and raving, but they wouldn't budge. A long
line formed behind him, and most had to reverse out and join another
tollbooth. So they do log car details and can turn you away or charge full
single price (over £100). Other operators are the same.
Alec
May 3rd 2003, 12:04 pm
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
On 03/05/03 11:44, in article [email protected], "Alec"
wrote:
> A driver in front of me returning to England from Calais Eurotunnel terminal
> was turned away, on the ground that he tried to use two day-return tickets
> back-to-back. He was ranting and raving, but they wouldn't budge. A long
> line formed behind him, and most had to reverse out and join another
> tollbooth. So they do log car details and can turn you away or charge full
> single price (over £100). Other operators are the same.
The answer is: get those fake magnetic plates that those congestion-charge
cheaters are using, and use different credit cards for the two purchases.
Preferably American credit cards, where you can get a one-time number that
Eurotunnel can't use to charge you a second time, and where they'd have to
sue you in the US to collect.
Or just call a UK travel agent and get one of those special deals on 5-day
(or longer) trips.
wrote:
> A driver in front of me returning to England from Calais Eurotunnel terminal
> was turned away, on the ground that he tried to use two day-return tickets
> back-to-back. He was ranting and raving, but they wouldn't budge. A long
> line formed behind him, and most had to reverse out and join another
> tollbooth. So they do log car details and can turn you away or charge full
> single price (over £100). Other operators are the same.
The answer is: get those fake magnetic plates that those congestion-charge
cheaters are using, and use different credit cards for the two purchases.
Preferably American credit cards, where you can get a one-time number that
Eurotunnel can't use to charge you a second time, and where they'd have to
sue you in the US to collect.
Or just call a UK travel agent and get one of those special deals on 5-day
(or longer) trips.
May 3rd 2003, 1:10 pm
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
wrote:
> All number plates are logged, so I don't see that providing proof would be
> that difficult.
It wouldn't be difficult to prove that you had travelled, but how can they
prove that the hadn't missed anyone?
> All number plates are logged, so I don't see that providing proof would be
> that difficult.
It wouldn't be difficult to prove that you had travelled, but how can they
prove that the hadn't missed anyone?
May 3rd 2003, 1:42 pm
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
On Sat, 03 May 2003 10:55:52 +0100, nightja wrote:
>
> "devil" wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 02 May 2003 14:51:28 +0100, nightja wrote:
>> >> * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
>> >> difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
>> >
>> > If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card would
> be
>> > the usual way to recover it.
>> Although the charge is not going to stick if I contest it.
>
> In which case they would have to start debt recovery procedures and quite
> possibly would add the cost of those to your debt.
This does not sound like a practical proposition at least if you don't
live in Europe. And it's not clear that they could actually add these
anyway.
Costs of any lawsuit perhaps. But the extra costs would still be quite a
bit more than what they could recover.
No airline in North America has ever attempted this sort of things.
>
> "devil" wrote in message
> news
[email protected]...>> On Fri, 02 May 2003 14:51:28 +0100, nightja wrote:
>> >> * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
>> >> difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
>> >
>> > If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card would
> be
>> > the usual way to recover it.
>> Although the charge is not going to stick if I contest it.
>
> In which case they would have to start debt recovery procedures and quite
> possibly would add the cost of those to your debt.
This does not sound like a practical proposition at least if you don't
live in Europe. And it's not clear that they could actually add these
anyway.
Costs of any lawsuit perhaps. But the extra costs would still be quite a
bit more than what they could recover.
No airline in North America has ever attempted this sort of things.
May 3rd 2003, 3:20 pm
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
On Fri, 2 May 2003 15:11:19 +0000 (UTC), [email protected]
wrote:
>On another group someone reported a case where they had done this (it may
>have been a ferry rather than Eurotunnel, but same difference) and
>received a warning letter asking them not to do it again.
Few years ago I purchased a one-day car return ticket by ferry to UK.
Then back after 9 days I attempted to buy a one-day (again!) return
ticket via eurotunnel, but they refused to sell one to me -- the
excuse was that for this kind of ticket 24 hrs notice is required. I
returned to France via a different ferry line, and never used my
credit card, of course. I'm almost sure they keep record of car's
licence and not of the driver generalities. I'm not sure that ferry
lines exchange data between them.
wrote:
>On another group someone reported a case where they had done this (it may
>have been a ferry rather than Eurotunnel, but same difference) and
>received a warning letter asking them not to do it again.
Few years ago I purchased a one-day car return ticket by ferry to UK.
Then back after 9 days I attempted to buy a one-day (again!) return
ticket via eurotunnel, but they refused to sell one to me -- the
excuse was that for this kind of ticket 24 hrs notice is required. I
returned to France via a different ferry line, and never used my
credit card, of course. I'm almost sure they keep record of car's
licence and not of the driver generalities. I'm not sure that ferry
lines exchange data between them.
May 3rd 2003, 3:26 pm
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
"devil" wrote in message
news[email protected]...
...
> > In which case they would have to start debt recovery procedures and
quite
> > possibly would add the cost of those to your debt.
> This does not sound like a practical proposition at least if you don't
> live in Europe.
There are plenty of companies that specialise in international debt
recovery.
> And it's not clear that they could actually add these
> anyway.
It is standard procedure for UK debt recovery and I would be surprised if
their terms and conditions did not specify that English Law was applicable
in any dispute.
Colin Bignell
news
[email protected]......
> > In which case they would have to start debt recovery procedures and
quite
> > possibly would add the cost of those to your debt.
> This does not sound like a practical proposition at least if you don't
> live in Europe.
There are plenty of companies that specialise in international debt
recovery.
> And it's not clear that they could actually add these
> anyway.
It is standard procedure for UK debt recovery and I would be surprised if
their terms and conditions did not specify that English Law was applicable
in any dispute.
Colin Bignell
May 3rd 2003, 4:02 pm
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
On Sat, 03 May 2003 16:26:54 +0100, nightja wrote:
>
> "devil" wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
> ...
>> > In which case they would have to start debt recovery procedures and
> quite
>> > possibly would add the cost of those to your debt.
>> This does not sound like a practical proposition at least if you don't
>> live in Europe.
>
> There are plenty of companies that specialise in international debt
> recovery.
>
>> And it's not clear that they could actually add these
>> anyway.
>
> It is standard procedure for UK debt recovery and I would be surprised if
> their terms and conditions did not specify that English Law was applicable
> in any dispute.
Still, even if winning a court case in the UK, they still would have to go
to court here to make it collectible here. The costs that would not be
recoverable here would still be higher than the value.
(Add to that that before going to court in the UK, they would have to
serve here etc., which is not obvious.)
I really doubt they would even try.
>
> "devil" wrote in message
> news
[email protected]...> ...
>> > In which case they would have to start debt recovery procedures and
> quite
>> > possibly would add the cost of those to your debt.
>> This does not sound like a practical proposition at least if you don't
>> live in Europe.
>
> There are plenty of companies that specialise in international debt
> recovery.
>
>> And it's not clear that they could actually add these
>> anyway.
>
> It is standard procedure for UK debt recovery and I would be surprised if
> their terms and conditions did not specify that English Law was applicable
> in any dispute.
Still, even if winning a court case in the UK, they still would have to go
to court here to make it collectible here. The costs that would not be
recoverable here would still be higher than the value.
(Add to that that before going to court in the UK, they would have to
serve here etc., which is not obvious.)
I really doubt they would even try.
May 3rd 2003, 8:02 pm
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
On 03/05/03 16:26, in article [email protected],
"nightjar" wrote:
> There are plenty of companies that specialise in international debt
> recovery.
Not for £100 or less.
"nightjar" wrote:
> There are plenty of companies that specialise in international debt
> recovery.
Not for £100 or less.
May 4th 2003, 2:23 pm
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
In message , [email protected]
writes
>In article ,
>-=^OmeN^=- wrote:
>> P&O Ferries charge you more money if you pay cash, to get around that
>> loophole, not sure bout the tunnel, it's way tooooooo expensive so I
>> never use it.
>Had a day trip for 25 in March. In what sense is that "way tooooooo
>expensive"
Booked in advance ?
Restrictions ?
Including a vehicle ?
My usuage of the cross channel crossings is turning up and going, I get
little notice and can't book a day/week/month in advance.
We used the tunnel a lot when it first opened as they were matching the
price of the ferry operators. That didn't last long though.
The last time I tried was about a year ago, a really rush job, upon
reaching the booth in a ford transit I was told 380 quid ONE WAY,
whereupon I went to dover and paid 200 return.
The last time I thought about using them, I couldn't get a price, as
they close their phone lines at 5pm (rather silly for a 24 hour company)
The last time I did use them, I came to the conclusion that despite the
so called 'speed' it was in fact no quicker than the ferry. There was
never a train leaving in the advertised 'x trains an hour', the one you
did get on after waiting never left on time, they never crossed in the
alleged 35 mins, and on top of that you are stuck in a carriage bored.
writes
>In article ,
>-=^OmeN^=- wrote:
>> P&O Ferries charge you more money if you pay cash, to get around that
>> loophole, not sure bout the tunnel, it's way tooooooo expensive so I
>> never use it.
>Had a day trip for 25 in March. In what sense is that "way tooooooo
>expensive"
Booked in advance ?
Restrictions ?
Including a vehicle ?
My usuage of the cross channel crossings is turning up and going, I get
little notice and can't book a day/week/month in advance.
We used the tunnel a lot when it first opened as they were matching the
price of the ferry operators. That didn't last long though.
The last time I tried was about a year ago, a really rush job, upon
reaching the booth in a ford transit I was told 380 quid ONE WAY,
whereupon I went to dover and paid 200 return.
The last time I thought about using them, I couldn't get a price, as
they close their phone lines at 5pm (rather silly for a 24 hour company)
The last time I did use them, I came to the conclusion that despite the
so called 'speed' it was in fact no quicker than the ferry. There was
never a train leaving in the advertised 'x trains an hour', the one you
did get on after waiting never left on time, they never crossed in the
alleged 35 mins, and on top of that you are stuck in a carriage bored.
May 6th 2003, 2:46 pm
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
>> * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
>> difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
>
> If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card would
> be the usual way to recover it.
Is it legal in the UK for a company to make an unauthorised charge to
someone's credit card in order to collect an alleged debt?
>> difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
>
> If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card would
> be the usual way to recover it.
Is it legal in the UK for a company to make an unauthorised charge to
someone's credit card in order to collect an alleged debt?
May 6th 2003, 2:52 pm
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel
> ...
>> But their T&Cs say 'For return bookings failure to complete both
>> outward and return journeys invalidates your booking and you will be
>> liable to pay for the journey completed, the difference the price and
>> the relevant applicable single fare.'
>> * Is this an 'unfair contract term' which would be invalid?
>
> I doubt it, as you would be in breach of the conditions of the contract
> you have entered into with the company, that you would make both trips
> within a particular period.
What I mean is that there is provision in UK law for courts (with the
advice of TSOs?) to strike out unfair terms from contracts. Has
anything like this ever been tested? Do TSOs have an opinion on this
one?
What if you were unable to return on the booked return journey for
reasons beyond your control? (illness, car accident)
>> But their T&Cs say 'For return bookings failure to complete both
>> outward and return journeys invalidates your booking and you will be
>> liable to pay for the journey completed, the difference the price and
>> the relevant applicable single fare.'
>> * Is this an 'unfair contract term' which would be invalid?
>
> I doubt it, as you would be in breach of the conditions of the contract
> you have entered into with the company, that you would make both trips
> within a particular period.
What I mean is that there is provision in UK law for courts (with the
advice of TSOs?) to strike out unfair terms from contracts. Has
anything like this ever been tested? Do TSOs have an opinion on this
one?
What if you were unable to return on the booked return journey for
reasons beyond your control? (illness, car accident)