Go Back  British Expats > Usenet Groups > rec.travel.* > rec.travel.europe
Reload this Page >

Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

Thread Tools
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 11:57 am
  #1  
A . Melon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

I've noticed that www.eurotunnel.com offers some 'day returns' and
'weekend specials' that are much cheaper than single from Dover to
Calais, so I could save quite a bit of money by buying one of those,
not using the return journey, and getting a single from Calais to
Dover later.

But their T&Cs say 'For return bookings failure to complete both
outward and return journeys invalidates your booking and you will be
liable to pay for the journey completed, the difference the price and
the relevant applicable single fare.'

* Is this an 'unfair contract term' which would be invalid?

* Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
difference, or would they have to sue me for it?

* Do they actually keep track of these things and try to enforce this?

* Has anyone tried it recently? What happened?

* Has this ever been tested in UK courts?

Thanks.
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 1:08 pm
  #2  
News User
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

A.Melon wrote in
news:8ad9bdb5fb453d114954ef61ea5b75d...affickers.com:

    > I've noticed that www.eurotunnel.com offers some 'day returns' and
    > 'weekend specials' that are much cheaper than single from Dover to
    > Calais, so I could save quite a bit of money by buying one of those,
    > not using the return journey, and getting a single from Calais to
    > Dover later.

Eurotunnel don't go from Dover! But see below ...

    > But their T&Cs say 'For return bookings failure to complete both
    > outward and return journeys invalidates your booking and you will be
    > liable to pay for the journey completed, the difference the price and
    > the relevant applicable single fare.'
    >
    > * Is this an 'unfair contract term' which would be invalid?
    > * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
    > difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
    >
    > * Do they actually keep track of these things and try to enforce this?
    >
    > * Has anyone tried it recently? What happened?
    >
    > * Has this ever been tested in UK courts?

I don't know for sure, but I reckon this is unfair (maybe not in a a strict
legal sense). I would suggest the retrospective charge could be claimed
(by you) from the card issuer if they tried to charge you, and if they
tried to sue you, what do they sue you for? They would have not made a
loss (since you paid for two journeys, but you only used one, leaving them
with spare capacity on the train).
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 1:33 pm
  #3  
Stephen Maudsley
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

"News User" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > A.Melon wrote in
    > news:8ad9bdb5fb453d114954ef61ea5b75d...affickers.com:
    > > I've noticed that www.eurotunnel.com offers some 'day returns' and
    > > 'weekend specials' that are much cheaper than single from Dover to
    > > Calais, so I could save quite a bit of money by buying one of those,
    > > not using the return journey, and getting a single from Calais to
    > > Dover later.
    > Eurotunnel don't go from Dover! But see below ...
    > > But their T&Cs say 'For return bookings failure to complete both
    > > outward and return journeys invalidates your booking and you will be
    > > liable to pay for the journey completed, the difference the price and
    > > the relevant applicable single fare.'
    > >
    > > * Is this an 'unfair contract term' which would be invalid?
    > >
    > > * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
    > > difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
    > >
    > > * Do they actually keep track of these things and try to enforce this?
    > >
    > > * Has anyone tried it recently? What happened?
    > >
    > > * Has this ever been tested in UK courts?
    > I don't know for sure, but I reckon this is unfair (maybe not in a a
strict
    > legal sense). I would suggest the retrospective charge could be claimed
    > (by you) from the card issuer if they tried to charge you, and if they
    > tried to sue you, what do they sue you for? They would have not made a
    > loss (since you paid for two journeys, but you only used one, leaving them
    > with spare capacity on the train).

You have deprived them of the earnings that they would have made had you not
broken this term of the contract... but IANAL

There is certainly a camera at registration plate height at the checkin so
either a computer reads the plate or the checkin person logs it. Either way,
there is enough information logged to permit them to enforce it.
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 1:51 pm
  #4  
nightjar
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

"A.Melon" wrote in message
news:8ad9bdb5fb453d114954ef61ea5b75d...raffickers.com...
...
    > But their T&Cs say 'For return bookings failure to complete both
    > outward and return journeys invalidates your booking and you will be
    > liable to pay for the journey completed, the difference the price and
    > the relevant applicable single fare.'
    > * Is this an 'unfair contract term' which would be invalid?

I doubt it, as you would be in breach of the conditions of the contract you
have entered into with the company, that you would make both trips within a
particular period.

    > * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
    > difference, or would they have to sue me for it?

If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card would be
the usual way to recover it.

    > * Do they actually keep track of these things and try to enforce this?

Yes, frequently. You are not the first person to notice the difference in
fares.

Colin Bignell
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 2:23 pm
  #5  
Harry The Horse
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

nightjar wrote:
    > "A.Melon" wrote in message
    > news:8ad9bdb5fb453d114954ef61ea5b75d...raffickers.com...
    > ...
    >> * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
    >> difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
    > If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card
    > would be the usual way to recover it.
So best not to pay by credit or debit card then.
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 3:11 pm
  #6  
barney
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

In article , nightjar ()
wrote:

    >
    > "A.Melon" wrote in message
    > news:8ad9bdb5fb453d114954ef61ea5b75d...raffickers.com...
    > > * Is this an 'unfair contract term' which would be invalid?
    >
    > I doubt it, as you would be in breach of the conditions of the contract
    > you
    > have entered into with the company, that you would make both trips
    > within a
    > particular period.

The question is whether that is an unfair condition, in which case
Eurotunnel cannot enforce it.

    > > * Do they actually keep track of these things and try to enforce this?
    >
    > Yes, frequently. You are not the first person to notice the difference
    > in
    > fares.

On another group someone reported a case where they had done this (it may
have been a ferry rather than Eurotunnel, but same difference) and
received a warning letter asking them not to do it again.
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 3:11 pm
  #7  
barney
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

In article , [email protected]
(Stephen Maudsley) wrote:

    >
    > "News User" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > A.Melon wrote in
    > > news:8ad9bdb5fb453d114954ef61ea5b75d...affickers.com:
    > >
    > > > I've noticed that www.eurotunnel.com offers some 'day returns' and
    > > > 'weekend specials' that are much cheaper than single from Dover to
    > > > Calais, so I could save quite a bit of money by buying one of those,
    > > > not using the return journey, and getting a single from Calais to
    > > > Dover later.
    > >
    > > Eurotunnel don't go from Dover! But see below ...
    > >
    > > > But their T&Cs say 'For return bookings failure to complete both
    > > > outward and return journeys invalidates your booking and you will be
    > > > liable to pay for the journey completed, the difference the price
    > > > and
    > > > the relevant applicable single fare.'
    > > >
    > > > * Is this an 'unfair contract term' which would be invalid?
    > > >
    > > > * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
    > > > difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
    > > >
    > > > * Do they actually keep track of these things and try to enforce
    > > > this?
    > > >
    > > > * Has anyone tried it recently? What happened?
    > > >
    > > > * Has this ever been tested in UK courts?
    > >
    > > I don't know for sure, but I reckon this is unfair (maybe not in a a
    > strict
    > > legal sense). I would suggest the retrospective charge could be
    > > claimed
    > > (by you) from the card issuer if they tried to charge you, and if they
    > > tried to sue you, what do they sue you for? They would have not made
    > > a
    > > loss (since you paid for two journeys, but you only used one, leaving
    > > them
    > > with spare capacity on the train).
    >
    > You have deprived them of the earnings that they would have made had
    > you not
    > broken this term of the contract... but IANAL

IANAL either, but...you can equally well argue the converse. If the OP had
*not* broken this term of the contract they would have made no extra
earnings. They lost the chance of those potential earnings (from
selling high-price singles rather than reduced returns) when they agreed
to sell him a discount ticket in the first place. It is difficult to see
how his absence on the return journey causes them any more harm than they
have already suffered.

Look at it another way. If the OP took *neither* the outward nor return
journey -- in other words, if he paid for the ticket and just didn't use
it at all -- presumably Eurotunnel would not then levy a surcharge, even
though you might argue that they had lost the opportunity to sell the
unused capacity at a higher price.

If they are then implicitly agreeing that a passenger has the right to
"waste" the place they have paid for on two journeys, why doesn't he have
the right to waste it on just one journey?
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 4:08 pm
  #8  
-=^Omen^=-
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

In message , Harry the Horse
writes
    >nightjar wrote:
    >> "A.Melon" wrote in message
    >> news:8ad9bdb5fb453d114954ef61ea5b75d...raffickers.com...
    >> ...
    >>> * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
    >>> difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
    >> If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card
    >> would be the usual way to recover it.
    >So best not to pay by credit or debit card then.
P&O Ferries charge you more money if you pay cash, to get around that
loophole, not sure bout the tunnel, it's way tooooooo expensive so I
never use it.
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 8:05 pm
  #9  
666_
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

In article ,
-=^OmeN^=- wrote:

    > P&O Ferries charge you more money if you pay cash, to get around that
    > loophole, not sure bout the tunnel, it's way tooooooo expensive so I
    > never use it.

Had a day trip for 25 in March. In what sense is that "way tooooooo
expensive"
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 8:05 pm
  #10  
666_
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

In article ,
A.Melon wrote:

    > I've noticed that www.eurotunnel.com offers some 'day returns' and
    > 'weekend specials' that are much cheaper than single from Dover to
    > Calais, so I could save quite a bit of money by buying one of those,
    > not using the return journey, and getting a single from Calais to
    > Dover later.
    >
    > But their T&Cs say 'For return bookings failure to complete both
    > outward and return journeys invalidates your booking and you will be
    > liable to pay for the journey completed, the difference the price and
    > the relevant applicable single fare.'
    >
    > * Is this an 'unfair contract term' which would be invalid?

No.
    >
    > * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
    > difference,

Yes. Their contracts specifically authorise this.

    > or would they have to sue me for it?
    >
    > * Do they actually keep track of these things and try to enforce this?

Yes. Duh.

    > * Has anyone tried it recently? What happened?
    >
    > * Has this ever been tested in UK courts?
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 9:00 pm
  #11  
Lennart Petersen
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
    > In article , nightjar ()
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > "A.Melon" wrote in message
    > > news:8ad9bdb5fb453d114954ef61ea5b75d...raffickers.com...
    > > > * Is this an 'unfair contract term' which would be invalid?
    > >
    > > I doubt it, as you would be in breach of the conditions of the contract
    > > you
    > > have entered into with the company, that you would make both trips
    > > within a
    > > particular period.
    > The question is whether that is an unfair condition, in which case
    > Eurotunnel cannot enforce it.
    > > > * Do they actually keep track of these things and try to enforce this?
    > >
    > > Yes, frequently. You are not the first person to notice the difference
    > > in
    > > fares.
    > On another group someone reported a case where they had done this (it may
    > have been a ferry rather than Eurotunnel, but same difference) and
    > received a warning letter asking them not to do it again.
Such things as throwing away the return portion are quite frequently done
with ferry and, most of all ,airline bookings. Never heard about any
complications involved.
Travelled on a very reduced day return with SAS recently and they informed
be: "don't forget to cancel the reservation for the return leg if you
eventually don't use it"
The legal case may vary from country to country but in my case the card
company can't charge me against my will for anything I haven't signed.
The card company in turn have to deny the charging company their money and
for them remains only to sue in a civil case.
L.P
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 9:19 pm
  #12  
Johannes H Andersen
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

Jonathan Bryce wrote:
    >
    > wrote:
    >
    > > If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card would
    > > be the usual way to recover it.
    >
    > And if I reported it as fraud to my cc co, what would happen? Bearing in
    > mind that they would have to prove on the balance of probabilities that I
    > did not make the journey back.

But "liable to pay for the journey completed" is not the same as authorising
a CC payment. It only means that they can send you an invoice, followed
buy debt collection if they can prove it.

Johannes
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 9:19 pm
  #13  
Jonathan Bryce
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

wrote:

    > If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card would
    > be the usual way to recover it.

And if I reported it as fraud to my cc co, what would happen? Bearing in
mind that they would have to prove on the balance of probabilities that I
did not make the journey back.
 
Old May 2nd 2003, 10:09 pm
  #14  
Harry The Horse
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

"-=^OmeN^=-" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In message , Harry the Horse
    > writes
    > >nightjar wrote:
    > >> "A.Melon" wrote in message
    > >> news:8ad9bdb5fb453d114954ef61ea5b75d...raffickers.com...
    > >> ...
    > >>
    > >>> * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
    > >>> difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
    > >>
    > >> If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card
    > >> would be the usual way to recover it.
    > >>
    > >So best not to pay by credit or debit card then.
    > >
    > P&O Ferries charge you more money if you pay cash, to get around that
    > loophole, not sure bout the tunnel, it's way tooooooo expensive so I
    > never use it.
Best not to travel at all then. France is shit. But at least it's not the
United States.
 
Old May 3rd 2003, 1:08 am
  #15  
Devil
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Using cheap return tickets on Eurotunnel

On Fri, 02 May 2003 14:51:28 +0100, nightja wrote:


    >> * Could they legally (in the UK) charge my credit card for the
    >> difference, or would they have to sue me for it?
    >
    > If you have paid with a credit card, charging the debt to the card would be
    > the usual way to recover it.

Although the charge is not going to stick if I contest it.
 


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.