John Bermont wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > jacob atienza wrote:
    >>
    >> My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to
    >> Europe... Paris, specifically. Quite a deal at under 500. each,
    >> round trip. We're suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day
    >> trip, she's planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited
    >> time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a
    >> couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France.
    >>
    >> Anyway, I'm terrified. While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type,
    >> I tend to be way to practical and can't bear the thought of going
    >> without a well thought out plan. Can anyone here help? We have
    >> about 1500. between us for the trip proper. Any advice on places to
    >> stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe
    >> forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a
    >> good itinerary...basically anything!! Is it tough to get by with
    >> nothing but a French/Italian phrase book? Would most places accept
    >> my Visa check card? Help reduce my anxiety, please.. .
    >
    > Jacob,
    >
    > Run out and buy a copy of Lonely Planet's "Europe on a Shoestring."
    > Info and tips on my site will also be helpful. Visit it at
    > http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
    >
    > John Bermont

If you insist on seeing Paris and Italy. Check out EasyJet. Its a very
cheap way to get from Paris to Nice and it is much quicker than by
train. From Nice you can easily train over to the Italian Riviera.
Disclaimer: I haven't done this before. My trip isn't until next week,
but I've done tons of research (this newsgroup is very helpful), booked
all major travel (easyjet included), and it could not be easier

"Juliana L Holm" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Frank Clarke wrote:
    > > Let me second Wolfgang Schweinke's excellent advice.
    > > Your first day is wasted after 12- to 17-hours in flight. That leaves
    > > you 2 days in Paris - if you're lucky. 2 weeks in Paris is more
    > > reasonable - it's a marvelous place, awash in history and culture, and
    > > the food... the food... (did I mention wine?).
    > I disagree. If you can sleep on an airplane, and if you take it easy the
first
    > day, but stay up until 9 PM local time or so, you can enjoy that first
day.
    > It might not be the day to do the Louvre, but the Eiffel Tower and Notre
    > Dame are very doable that first day. Try to have hotel reservations when
    > you arrive, if just for the security of that first time. I still make
reser-
    > vations for the first night or when I travel with more than 4 people.
    > Also I disagree about the spend the whole time in Paris thing. While
Paris can
    > take weeks to visit in depth, you can do the highlights in 4 - 5 days.

I would go further than that and say that you can 'do' the highlights of
most cities in 2-3 days. Take a guided hop-on hop-off tour bus the first day
to get your bearings and then do the other day(s) on your own. For a first
visit to Europe this will give a good overview and let the OP decide where
to spend more time on a return visit.

However a better/different way of doing it is to book a cruise of the Baltic
or Med (or both), that way although you only get to see each place for a
day, you don't get the hassles of transport or booking into and out of
hotels. and maybe follow that up with a few days in Paris and/or London.

On 14 Mar 2003 13:37:08 GMT, Juliana L Holm
wrote:

    >Rita wrote:
    >> It would take you an entire day to travel by train from Paris to
    >> Italy, while from Paris to Amsterdam is about 5 hours. Keep in

One could certainly take a night train but the travel time during
the day is 5 hours. I don't know if I would take a night train for a
trip of that length or not. A couchette costs about $20, same as
a night in a hostel.
    >Nope. It would take one night. Book couchettes for an overnight train
    >when you arrive in paris (you might need to go to the train station to do this)
    >saves time, saves money. Try to get the top two bunks of the couchettes, that
    >will leave you near your luggage and give you a tad more privacy.
    >Isn't norhtern Europe STILL more expensive than southern europe? And a
    >lot colder in April (though I;ve done April in the Netherlands, and if you
    >do it try to get to see those tulips; maybe Keukenhof Gardens)

Hotel rooms are somewhat higher in Amsterdam than in many parts
of Italy. But hostels are readily available. I traveled to Rome in
early April and it was not very warm. Southern Italy is warmer but
the travel time would be long -- one can take a night train, of
course. I've done a night train between Paris and Rome a couple
of times.

Rita writes:

    > Hotel rooms are somewhat higher in Amsterdam than in many parts
    > of Italy.

On the contrary - they're mostly much lower, in fact many of them are
even below sea level :-)

--
-- Chris.

Hi,

10 days should be 2 cities max.

jacob atienza wrote:
    > My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe...
    > Paris, specifically. Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip. We're
    > suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she's planning on 3 or 4
    > cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and
    > see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to
    > France.
    >
    > Anyway, I'm terrified. While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to
    > be way to practical and can't bear the thought of going without a well thought
    > out plan. Can anyone here help? We have about 1500. between us for the trip
    > proper. Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy
    > preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for
    > certain cities, a good itinerary...basically anything!! Is it tough to get by
    > with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book? Would most places accept my
    > Visa check card? Help reduce my anxiety, please.. .


--
"But to live outside the law, you must be honest"
Bob Dylan - Absolutely Sweet Marie - 1966

    > True, seems like one can spend weeks in Paris and hardly absorb much more than
    > a small percantage of what it can offer...but this is my first trip so I'll
    > probably just skim the surface and have a better grasp of things when I come
    > back.

Hi,

the green micheline guide to paris has excellent "tours" for those with
limited time in Paris... and they're pretty optimistic on what you can
cover in a day.

I've been visiting Paris for over 40 years now and it still hasn't shown
me all there is to see and do.

you mentioned italy...

ok...

say if you split your time between Paris at 7 days, Florence at 3 with
an overnight train between them you're probably ok.

a week in Paris isn't long... especially if you do some day trips out of
Paris... say to Chartre, Orleans, Reims, Epernay, etc.


--
"But to live outside the law, you must be honest"
Bob Dylan - Absolutely Sweet Marie - 1966

"jacob atienza"

expressed first-time jitters and asked for reassurance about

money

lodging

safety

travel

itinerary

Jacob: You wlil have a ball!

Another poster recommended the book *Europe through the Back Door* by Rick
Steves--it's a great book for first-time travelers (especially Americans)
that directly addresses your issues (and many others).

If you live near a decent public library I'd also recommend casing its
travel section for ideas and to sample the different kinds of guidebooks.

What I mean by that is you'll probably use some guidebooks to plan and enjoy
your trip, and they all have their strengths and quirks. So begin by
understanding the personality of, say, Lonely Planet versus Michelin or
Eyewitness or whatever.

You can also take note of sights and activities that interest you but are
not on the "A " list that you and your girlfriend already know about. (For
instance, did you know that Paris has some fabulous street markets? And
Roman ruins? That sort of thing.)

Then pick one or two books that you like and *go to a bookstore to get the
2003 edition of those books.* (Most recent is critical.) Spend 30 or 50
bucks of that $1,500 before on information before you go--it will save you
money and give you a much better experience.

The more you can plan, the less anxious you will feel--and the better trip
you will have.

On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:20:01 GMT, Frank Clarke
wrote:


    >Let me second Wolfgang Schweinke's excellent advice.
Make that Schwanke. Sorry, WG.

"Sjoerd" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "jacob atienza" schreef in bericht
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to
    > Europe...
    > > Paris, specifically. Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.
    > I agree that a price of under 500 baht is cheap for a return ticket from
    > Bangkok to Paris.
    > (message: why do you assume that we know 1) where you live and 2) what
    > currency you normally use?)

Because what currency he uses and where he lives has no bearing on the
questions he is asking. Whether it's 500 bahts or 500 yuans or 500 lire,
what does it matter to you?

    > Sjoerd

"jacob atienza" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to
Europe...
    > Paris, specifically. Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip. We're
    > suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she's planning on 3
or 4
    > cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest
and
    > see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and
back to
    > France.
    > Anyway, I'm terrified. While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I
tend to
    > be way to practical and can't bear the thought of going without a well
thought
    > out plan. Can anyone here help? We have about 1500. between us for the
trip
    > proper. Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy
    > preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended
for
    > certain cities, a good itinerary...basically anything!! Is it tough to
get by
    > with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book? Would most places accept
my
    > Visa check card? Help reduce my anxiety, please.. .

Jacod, there is a book called Paris for Dummies. Bad title, but does
contain helpful hints for first timers. Also check out Rick Steve's web
site. He has very down to earth advice for Paris and France.

In article ,
[email protected] (jacob atienza) wrote:

    > My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to
    > Europe...
    > Paris, specifically. Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.
    > We're
    > suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she's planning
    > on 3 or 4
    > cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to
    > rest and
    > see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and
    > back to
    > France.


Jacob, you've been given a lot of good advice by others. I'll add one
thing: as you seem to imply that you don't speak any (or much) French or
Italian, it might be a bad idea to do two countries.

If you spend all the time in France, you'll find after a few days that
you're a lot more confident in using the language (which, remember,
involves things like reading signs and menus, as much as speaking). But if
you then hop over to Italy, you'll have to start back at square one with
Italian, and by the time you get back to France you'll have forgotten the
French you were starting to pick up!

This is a fairly minor point, but worth considering. On your general query
about language and whether it's possible to get by with a phrasebook,
you'll have no problem at all in cities and tourist areas. English is
very widely spoken although, of course, it is polite (and fun) to use the
local language as far as you can. In smaller out-of-the-way places it
might be a little harder to find an English speaker, but young people in
particular will almost always know enough to communicate with you on a
basic level -- and sometimes on a very sophisticated one.

My advice, which will probably have professional linguists tearing their
hair out, is to not worry about grammar too much and just try to get the
right words in more or less the right order -- if the precise form of the
word is slightly wrong, people will usually still understand you.

BTW I find a pocket dictionary invaluable as phrasebooks almost invariably
lack the precise word you are looking for (they'll tell you about apples,
and pears, and oranges, and kumquats, but omit bananas when you REALLY
want a banana).

Frank Clarke wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > Let me second Wolfgang Schweinke's excellent advice.

Thank you for agreeing with me, but with all due respect my name is
Schwanke, not Schweinke. This is important because

Schwein = pig
Schwan = swan

    

--
Ideology is the science of idiocy.

On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 08:21:22 -0800, in rec.travel.europe, "Peter L"
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

...
... "Sjoerd" wrote in message
... news:[email protected]...
... >
... > "jacob atienza" schreef in bericht
... > news:[email protected]...
... > > My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to
... > Europe...
... > > Paris, specifically. Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.
... >
... > I agree that a price of under 500 baht is cheap for a return ticket from
... > Bangkok to Paris.
... > (message: why do you assume that we know 1) where you live and 2) what
... > currency you normally use?)
... >
...
... Because what currency he uses and where he lives has no bearing on the
... questions he is asking. Whether it's 500 bahts or 500 yuans or 500 lire,
... what does it matter to you?

It does matter for any person with brains in working order.
Maybe it's not your case.

I wonder where 500 Turkish lira would get you...

"Peter L" schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
    > "Sjoerd" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "jacob atienza" schreef in bericht
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to
    > > Europe...
    > > > Paris, specifically. Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.
    > >
    > > I agree that a price of under 500 baht is cheap for a return ticket from
    > > Bangkok to Paris.
    > > (message: why do you assume that we know 1) where you live and 2) what
    > > currency you normally use?)
    > >
    > Because what currency he uses and where he lives has no bearing on the
    > questions he is asking. Whether it's 500 bahts or 500 yuans or 500 lire,
    > what does it matter to you?

Because the OP said "we have 1500 between the two of us for the trip" and he
was asking for advice how to spend it. It makes a BIG difference if those
1500 are Turkish lira or Kuwait dinars.

Sjoerd

"Magda" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 08:21:22 -0800, in rec.travel.europe, "Peter L"

    > arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ...
    > ... "Sjoerd" wrote in message
    > ... news:[email protected]...
    > ... >
    > ... > "jacob atienza" schreef in bericht
    > ... > news:[email protected]...
    > ... > > My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets
to
    > ... > Europe...
    > ... > > Paris, specifically. Quite a deal at under 500. each, round
trip.
    > ... >
    > ... > I agree that a price of under 500 baht is cheap for a return ticket
from
    > ... > Bangkok to Paris.
    > ... > (message: why do you assume that we know 1) where you live and 2)
what
    > ... > currency you normally use?)
    > ... >
    > ...
    > ... Because what currency he uses and where he lives has no bearing on
the
    > ... questions he is asking. Whether it's 500 bahts or 500 yuans or 500
lire,
    > ... what does it matter to you?
    > It does matter for any person with brains in working order.
    > Maybe it's not your case.
    > I wonder where 500 Turkish lira would get you...

He's already bought the ticket. Talk about a lack of brain.