The UN has released crime data... It places the UK at the top... not just car
stereos... but violent crime... just below them is OZ.

Down the list, quite a bit actually, you will find the U.S..

Lets see... can we find some common social policies that may be indicators of this...
gun control???

The UK Gov contracted some NYC experts in this field... they told them to not ignore
the small stuff... the graffiti, the pick-pockets and the street beggars... the NYC
officials said that werent interested in this approach and couldnt make the
connection between graffiti and street crime and crime in general.

jay Tue, Jul 16, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."

Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    > The UN has released crime data... It places the UK at the top... not just car
    > stereos... but violent crime... just below them is OZ.

Is there anywhere online I can find this data? I looked at www.un.org/News under
crime but there was no mention...

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Miguel
Cruz) wrote:

    > Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > The UN has released crime data... It places the UK at the top... not just car
    > > stereos... but violent crime... just below them is OZ.
    >
    > Is there anywhere online I can find this data? I looked at www.un.org/News under
    > crime but there was no mention...

I did too... and saw no ref either. I heard it from Paul Harvey, could be it will be
put up soon... maybe they need the owed U.S. funds to hire some more html geeks.

jay Tue, Jul 16, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

    >
    > miguel

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."

On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 01:51:30 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:

    >Is there anywhere online I can find this data? I looked at www.un.org/News under
    >crime but there was no mention...

http://www.uncjin.org/Statistics/WCTS/wcts.html has a collection of crime reports and
surveys.. some are 200+ pages of .pdf files. Don't see any summaries that jump out at
you. I'll let you folks with high-speed access peruse them.

Gordon

The only reference to crime that jumped out at me was the bit about peacekeepers, you know the one where the US cried because its peacekeepers might get treated the same as everybody else

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Miguel
Cruz) wrote:

    > Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > The UN has released crime data... It places the UK at the top... not just car
    > > stereos... but violent crime... just below them is OZ.
    >
    > Is there anywhere online I can find this data? I looked at www.un.org/News under
    > crime but there was no mention...

The UK government recently released some of its own crime stats, showing some
increases IIRC...in the absence of other substantiation, maybe Chinese whispers are
in operation here?

"Go Fig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > The UN has released crime data... It places the UK at the top... not just car
    > stereos... but violent crime... just below them is OZ.
    >
    > Down the list, quite a bit actually, you will find the U.S..
    >
    > Lets see... can we find some common social policies that may be indicators of
    > this... gun control???
    >
    > The UK Gov contracted some NYC experts in this field... they told them to not
    > ignore the small stuff... the graffiti, the pick-pockets and the street beggars...
    > the NYC officials said that werent interested in this approach and couldnt make the
    > connection between graffiti and street crime and crime in general.
    >
I blame it on the septics (of course I do!) - its the increasing desire in the UK to
sue people, and to sue someone (be it police, thief or insurance company) you have to
make a formal complaint. The advent of 'no win / no fee' lawyers has result in
*everything* being reported, just in case a claim can be made. A cynic would say the
cops love it a: coz it keeps them in the station doing paperwork, and b: justifies
more money, people and weapons. There was much much gloating in uk.consultants last
week when a claim 'management' co. when down the bin, which I think (hope) shows the
start of a backlash. Meantime, if you aren't in the crack or MDMA trade, its a pretty
safe place to be... almost all violent crime is low life git on low life git: avoid
kebab shops after the pubs have closed and most of the risk has gone. Having said
that, I feel much happier late at night in most other European capitals than I do in
London. Further reading for guns freaks:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/...00/1628462.stm (indicative of the
state of the nation: the surviving low life is suing the gun guy for stress, the gun
guy is suing the low life for stress etc etc - madness)

In article <[email protected]>, "The Oik"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Go Fig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > The UN has released crime data... It places the UK at the top... not just car
    > > stereos... but violent crime... just below them is OZ.
    > >
    > > Down the list, quite a bit actually, you will find the U.S..
    > >
    > > Lets see... can we find some common social policies that may be indicators of
    > > this... gun control???
    > >
    > > The UK Gov contracted some NYC experts in this field... they told them to not
    > > ignore the small stuff... the graffiti, the pick-pockets and the street
    > > beggars... the NYC officials said that werent interested in this approach and
    > > couldnt make the connection between graffiti and street crime and crime in
    > > general.
    > >
    > I blame it on the septics (of course I do!) - its the increasing desire in the UK
    > to sue people, and to sue someone (be it police, thief or insurance company) you
    > have to make a formal complaint. The advent of 'no win / no fee' lawyers has result
    > in *everything* being reported, just in case a claim can be made. A cynic would say
    > the cops love it a: coz it keeps them in the station doing paperwork, and b:
    > justifies more money, people and weapons. There was much much gloating in
    > uk.consultants last week when a claim 'management' co. when down the bin, which I
    > think (hope) shows the start of a backlash.

Wow...I didnt know the UK had that, everybody deserves their day in court but it has
really run amuck in the U.S.. Among the most litigious people in the U.S. are
prisoners behind bars... they sue everybody... the guards, the warden, the food
providers... their former lawyers, their current lawyers all funded by taxpayers who
pay for the legal libraries in these prisons... 99% get nowhere, but are a burden on
the system.

Moreover, the valued 'jury of your peers' also runs amuck... most of those who serve
(civil cases) think that someday they might be the plaintiff and award judgements
that are out of this world.

    > Meantime, if you aren't in the crack or MDMA trade, its a pretty safe place to
    > be... almost all violent crime is low life git on low life git: avoid kebab shops
    > after the pubs have closed and most of the risk has gone. Having said that, I feel
    > much happier late at night in most other European capitals than I do in London.

Yep, like my grandmother said... lay down with dogs, you get flees. Same is true with
violent crime. That said, the 'hot rate', those burglaries that occur while someone
is in the home, is much higher in the UK v U.S..

Why do you think this is so... "pistol packn' grannies"in the U.S. ?

jay Wed, Jul 17, 2002 mailto:[email protected]


    > Further reading for guns freaks:
    > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/...00/1628462.stm (indicative of the
    > state of the nation: the surviving low life is suing the gun guy for stress, the
    > gun guy is suing the low life for stress etc etc - madness)
    >
    >

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."

On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:37:17 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] wrote:

    >>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Miguel
    >>Cruz) wrote:
    >>
    >>> Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> > The UN has released crime data... It places the UK at the top... not just car
    >>> > stereos... but violent crime... just below them is OZ.
    >>>
    >>> Is there anywhere online I can find this data? I looked at www.un.org/News under
    >>> crime but there was no mention...
    >>
    >>The UK government recently released some of its own crime stats, showing some
    >>increases IIRC...in the absence of other substantiation, maybe Chinese whispers are
    >>in operation here?

As always, any statistics can be manipulated to suit the situation. I haven't looked
at the figures, but I am asking myself the following questions

1: definition of violent crime
2: reported crimes as a Number of crimes committed or crimes committed per
head of capita
3:Source of crime stats
4:Bias of Stats (IE was the report written by someone in Washington DC?, the
acknowledged murder capitol of the world?)
5: What other countries were they compared against, IE UK against China or the USA.

Statistics on their own mean nothing at all.......

TEST We take ALL Major credit cards, click below for details
https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=57C4ZNJD4RK62

Brian Howell (Office manager) <[email protected]> wrote:
    > 4:Bias of Stats (IE was the report written by someone in Washington DC?, the
    > acknowledged murder capitol of the world?)

DC never had a prayer against Johannesburg. And it's not even the murder capital
of the USA.

    > 5: What other countries were they compared against, IE UK against China or the USA.

How does the inclusion or exclusion of China affect the relative ranking of the
US and UK?

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:06:16 GMT, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, "The Oik"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> "Go Fig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >> > The UN has released crime data... It places the UK at the top... not just car
    >> > stereos... but violent crime... just below them is OZ.

    >Same is true with violent crime. That said, the 'hot rate', those burglaries that
    >occur while someone is in the home, is much higher in the UK v U.S..
    >
    >Why do you think this is so... "pistol packn' grannies"in the U.S. ?
    >
    >jay Wed, Jul 17, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

Quote your (public) source or stop your scaremongering.

Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote
    > The UN has released crime data... It places the UK at the top... not just car
    > stereos... but violent crime... just below them is OZ.

I don't know if any crime figures yet compiled include Dr. Harold Shipman, who
committed between 215-260 murders, but that may sway the figures somewhat.

However, The Guardian newspaper reported:

Preliminary data from the 2001 British Crime Survey, which relies on thousands of
interviews, not on crime recorded by the police, shows crime falling in virtually
every category. Violent crime is down 19%, with a 12% drop overall. Between 1995 and
2000, crime recorded by the survey has fallen by a third. Despite this, 58% of
respondents *thought* crime had risen in the last year. The survey is at the Home
Ofice site.

The UK is one of the world's safer places. Another Home Office report compares
murder rates in cities worldwide. It shows that murder is less likely in London
(2.36 homicides per 100,000 people per year, 1997 to 1999) or Edinburgh (2.15) than
in that hotbed of crime, Brussels (2.67) or the average of European Union capitals
(2.71). Belfast, sadly, was less safe in the late 90s (5.23), but not when compared
with New York (9.38) or Washington DC (50.82).

The UK has the safest roads of any country listed, and the number of road deaths
fell from 5,554 in 1989 to 3,564 in 1999.

There are links to The Guardian's sources at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetne...675001,00.html

It is also well-known that a large proportion of crimes such as theft from
dwellings, theft of or from vehicles, etc is committed by comparatively few
individuals; I think I heard that one individual was responsible for a third of
car-related crime in a large town in the south of England (haven't been able to
check that on the web tonight) and once that particular individual had been taken
out of circulation the crime figures plummetted. Crime figures usually cover a wide
area; in the neighbourhood where this person lived/operated, crime would be very
high but a few streets away it would be a very different picture. Crime figures
don't reflect the very localised nature of a lot of crime, and it's often localised
in NON-tourist areas.

Of course, there's always a risk of pickpockets and the like, and tourists carrying
more than the usual baggage, trying to find their way about a strange place and just
being a little bit clueless at times are a target. It's a lot more distressing to
lose a wallet in a strange town, where you don't know what to do about reporting it,
getting replacement cards and money and the like. But your chances of being killed or
seriously injured through crime as a tourist really are very low.

As Nick Ross says on www.bbc.co.uk/crimewatch please, "don't have nightmares"

Owain

The resent rise in crime in The UK over the past year can be almost entirely
attributed to MASSIVE immigration that Brits refuse to control.

Same can be said for Hispanic immigrants that have greatly contributed to Americas
crime problem. (sorry Miguel, but it's true)

U.S. State of New Hampshire, with the LOWEST rate of minorities and
immigrants, has the LOWEST Crime rate in all the 50 States!

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > The resent rise in crime in The UK over the past year can be almost entirely
    > attributed to MASSIVE immigration that Brits refuse to control.
    >
    > Same can be said for Hispanic immigrants that have greatly contributed to Americas
    > crime problem. (sorry Miguel, but it's true)
    >
    > U.S. State of New Hampshire, with the LOWEST rate of minorities and
    > immigrants, has the LOWEST Crime rate in all the 50 States!
    >

yea...bollox: most of it is down, if you must blame anyone, to a combination of cell
phones and crack dealers. (Oh, BTW WHAT rise in immigration? Its one of the hardest
places in the world to emigrate to legally)
PPS I'm dyslexic, but even *I* try to spell properly