Edoardo Vancini

"Roger" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
    > Don't tell Blair. Apparently he and his family are to visit the Italian
    > PM, Sivio Berlusconi, at his lexery villa in Sardegna in August!
    > Not that they are likey to have musch trouble with thieves, not common
    > ones anyway! Sivlio Berlusconi is heavily linked with the Mafia and P2,
    > and in any case his villa, which is full of fantastic extensions such as
    > a jetty big enougth for luxery yachts and a mock greek amphitheatre, is
    > all covered by state secrets so the local planning authority can't get
    > fussy.
    > Ah, Italy, a great place to visit if you have friends in the right places!

There are Italians (half of us, indeed) who don't support Berlusconi, as
there are Americans not supporting Bush (half of them, indeed) and British
etc. etc.
Leaders come and go. That's not a way you can say how much civilized a
country is.

Edoardo

Tim Challenger

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 07:19:10 GMT, Edoardo Vancini wrote:

    > Leaders come and go.

But nowhere as fast as in Italy ;-)

--
Tim C.

Lennart Petersen

"Vicky" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:270720042132245849%[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, jenn <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > a bunch of guys are paid in cash, board a train and are robbed -- and it
    > > doesn't occur to you that this was an inside job -- that one of the
    > > others saw his opportunity and took it?
    > >
    > > or did he phone home for you to send money --in which case maybe this
    > > is a scam on Mom
    > The strange about this story is that the robbers were able to do their
    > deeds without anyone else being awake. I've taken many night trains
    > before - not once was I able to be sound asleep, and I was never the
    > only one awake.
Of course you're right. Anytimes there's always someone awake, walking to
the toilet or so.
The story is somewhat unbelievable.
    > I agree with the above - probably a scam on Mom or an inside job. See
    > I'd probably do the same with my mom if only she wouldn't cjust have a
    > heart attack and forbid me to travel anywhere forever.
    > -Vicky

Daisy

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 12:06:57 -0500, jenn <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Daisy wrote:
    >> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:39:58 -0500, Olivers <[email protected]>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Daisy extrapolated from data available...
    >>>>If train travel is so unsafe in a supposedly first world country, what
    >>>>would you suggest? That the victims (and there were about a half
    >>>>dozen in the same carriage) - who had actually been paid in cash for
    >>>>work done immediately before they boarded the train - should have
    >>>>taken some sort of alternative action?
    >>>Did he have a work permit or appropriate visa?
    >>>TMO
    >>
    >>
    >> He lives in Italy and works there (yes and with a work permit of
    >> course!) and the other victims in the carriage were also Italian
    >> residents -- NOT tourists!
    >>
    >> Daisy
    >a bunch of guys are paid in cash, board a train and are robbed -- and it
    >doesn't occur to you that this was an inside job -- that one of the
    >others saw his opportunity and took it?
    >or did he phone home for you to send money --in which case maybe this
    >is a scam on Mom

What a revolting suggestion -- what planet do you live on?


Daisy

Daisy

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 21:32:24 -0400, Vicky <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, jenn <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >>
    >> a bunch of guys are paid in cash, board a train and are robbed -- and it
    >> doesn't occur to you that this was an inside job -- that one of the
    >> others saw his opportunity and took it?
    >>
    >> or did he phone home for you to send money --in which case maybe this
    >> is a scam on Mom
    >The strange about this story is that the robbers were able to do their
    >deeds without anyone else being awake. I've taken many night trains
    >before - not once was I able to be sound asleep, and I was never the
    >only one awake.
    >I agree with the above - probably a scam on Mom or an inside job. See
    >I'd probably do the same with my mom if only she wouldn't cjust have a
    >heart attack and forbid me to travel anywhere forever.
    >-Vicky

Do we take it that the use of Mom indicates that you are American -
and if so, have you travelled outside of the USA? - and if so, you are
one of the 60% who have done so - because 30% of Americans don't even
own a passport.

So get real why don't you and believe that some people - yes even
young dance students of 21 years of age - do actually trust that
people are honest. That they aren't and that the world is populated
by criminals is quite hard to take.

But hey there, the USA we now read has the highest prison population
in the Western world - so maybe that explains your attitude to crime.


Daisy

Daisy

On 27 Jul 2004 22:48:46 -0700, [email protected] (Ian Bailey)
wrote:

    >[email protected] (Bobby Fischler) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    >Where the **** is "Londonistan" and "Manchesteristan" - of course
    >Italy is safer than these places becasue you just made them up.
    >And anyway, sitting in New Zealand what would you know about crime
    >rates in Britain and Italy?
    >Ian

About as much as all those non-travelling Americans who post so
regularly about crime in any country other than their own!

Daisy

Tim Challenger

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 22:59:57 +1200, Daisy wrote:

    > or did he phone home for you to send money --in which case maybe this
    >>is a scam on Mom
    >
    > What a revolting suggestion -- what planet do you live on?

The real one. I doubt if that sort of thing has never happened before.
--
Tim C.

Vicky

In article <[email protected]>, Daisy
<[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > So get real why don't you and believe that some people - yes even
    > young dance students of 21 years of age - do actually trust that
    > people are honest. That they aren't and that the world is populated
    > by criminals is quite hard to take.

    > But hey there, the USA we now read has the highest prison population
    > in the Western world - so maybe that explains your attitude to crime.

Hey lady - would love to know where you live because I want to live
where there's no crime and where being robbed (and hence the
"realization" that there are criminals out there) is a big deal.

You're obviously taking this very seriously, so I apologize if I
offended. Don't mean to suggest your son lied, of course. Rather, I
would suggest that Italians really *are* completely lawless. You
should suggest your son get out of there AT ONCE. Go somewhere else
where there is no crime. Amsterdam comes to mind. I hear nobody locks
their bikes there.

    


-Vicky

Vicky

In article <[email protected]>, Daisy
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > >
    > >a bunch of guys are paid in cash, board a train and are robbed -- and it
    > >doesn't occur to you that this was an inside job -- that one of the
    > >others saw his opportunity and took it?
    > >
    > >or did he phone home for you to send money --in which case maybe this
    > >is a scam on Mom
    >
    > What a revolting suggestion -- what planet do you live on?
    >

Okay - now I am starting to think that you totally made this up.
Nobody can seriously describe what was suggested as "revolting."
Trolling, yah?


-Vicky

Edoardo Vancini

"Tim Challenger" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 07:19:10 GMT, Edoardo Vancini wrote:
    > > Leaders come and go.
    > But nowhere as fast as in Italy ;-)

Fortunately enough, you're right! :-)

Edoardo

Tim Challenger

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:19:54 GMT, Edoardo Vancini wrote:

    > "Tim Challenger" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 07:19:10 GMT, Edoardo Vancini wrote:
    >>> Leaders come and go.
    >> But nowhere as fast as in Italy ;-)

    > Fortunately enough, you're right! :-)

I always joke that that's why Italians take so long to get anything
repaired or fixed because they have to keep checking to see which party is
in power.

--
Tim C.

Olivers

Daisy extrapolated from data available...



    >
    > About as much as all those non-travelling Americans who post so
    > regularly about crime in any country other than their own!
    >
    > Daisy
    >

I must admit, as a fairly well traveled USAian on behalf of all those non-
traveling Americans (most of whom it turns out are far farther traveled in
miles if not in border-crossings than Europeans since several states are
quite a bit larger than a number of European countries or amalgams
thereof), that the Americans I know (even the stay at home sort) are as
well informed about crime in Europe as most Europeans are knowlegeable as
to US crimes, the rates thereof and the localities in which they are most
likely to occur.

After all, with the world's highest per capita number of folks jailed, on
parole or on probation, at least the US can point to more than a decade
during which the national crime rate declined each and every year. Unless
a number of European publications sold or cited in the US are telling
whoppers, throughoput most of Europe, crime rates have increased. Although
the standards of comparison are subject to question (depending on which
interpreter you quote), the rates of several criminal offenses in the UK
actually exceed those in much of the US today.

There's no doubtr that access to firearms contribute to the US's murder and
assault with a deadly weapon crimes. Of course, the saddest part of those
crimes is the overwhelming majority of them occur within families and
groups of people related or otherwise acquainted with each other. That we
in US are better with knives than are British Asian gangs seems likely.
Any good LA gang fight in which one assaultee is stabbed/cut 18 times and
ain't deceased therefrom would cause the other gang to disband in shame and
embarassment.

Most USAians would maintain (and likely be supported by statistics) that
pickpockets and pilferage are more common in Europe than in the US. On the
other hand, I wouldn't leave my yard tools propped up on the mailbox even
in my nearly crime free rural suburb.

Many here - especially some of those seasoned travlers - folks widely
journeyed in the US and Europe - have come to disbelieve substantial parts
of your son't tale as he recounted it. Were this another of the forums I
read, I wouldn't be surprised to read that someone had accessed the Italian
police report (a "public document" in much of the US) to verify your claim
and the circumstances. Some Italians here have noted a lack of newspaper
reports (or that they had not seen any). Others, harsh cyncics who have
been parents (or known parents) of children given to financial peccadillos
and confabulations arising therefrom have even gone so far as to suggest
that your son't tale may not be of whole cloth (or even tattered gauze) and
that your credulence is colored by blood and motherhood.

So, before you accuse 'Merkins of being knowledgeless of European crime,
consider that those same 'Merkins have been long sensitive to tales of
crimes against persons and property that they are very familiar with the
nature of crimes and the situations in which they are likely to occur, in
both the US and Europe. Now, even some Europeans here, from countries
where there used to be no or little crime (although those of us who visited
Naples, Marseilles, Piraeus, Tangier, Palermo and a dozen other cities
might have experience to claim otherwise), but are now centers of
escalating criminality, rising toward US rates, are equally attuned to
crime and crime reports.

Could it be you who is are gullibly naive about crime?

TMO

B Vaughan

On 27 Jul 2004 10:01:45 -0700, [email protected] (Watcher) wrote:


    >There is an Italian language series on our educational TV station, "In
    >Italiano" I believe it's called. One of the episodes depicts a train
    >robbery! A husband and wife tourist couple get on a train. Another
    >couple join them in their compartment and offer them coffee, which is
    >spiked and puts them to sleep. They are then robbed.
    >I thought this was a very strange thing to include in a language
    >course. It indicates that train robberies may indeed be a problem in
    >Italy. (But I have ridden the trains extensively and have never had
    >any trouble.....)

I don't see how you jump to the conclusion that the plot of a
fictional story on a language tape indicates the existence of a real
problem.


-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

Olivers

Edoardo Vancini extrapolated from data available...

    >
    > "Roger" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio

    >> Ah, Italy, a great place to visit if you have friends in the right
    >> places!
    >
    > There are Italians (half of us, indeed) who don't support Berlusconi,
    > as there are Americans not supporting Bush (half of them, indeed) and
    > British etc. etc.
    > Leaders come and go. That's not a way you can say how much civilized a
    > country is.
    >

No, civilization has nothing to do with leaders, but much to do with the
capacity to survive their terms of office.

Some in the US have claimed that Bush's election came from the votes of a
small percentage of the electorate who were reflecting with shame and
embarassment on having voted for Clinton the first time. While that may be
true or partially so, I'm inclined to believe that the tiny Bush electoral
college majority came from voters who had actually listened to Algore
speak, an experience as painful as adult circumcision sans anesthetic.

Of course, this time around, Bush stands an excellent chance at reelection,
since his opponent seems to possess all the charismatic appeal of a bowl of
unflavored tapioca, along with some substantial baggage, including what may
be a albatross slung about his neck in the person of his spouse whom it
seems impossible to conceal from public scrutiny. She may be at least to
the "Traditional Family Values" set, a big chunk of USAian voters, about as
appealing as scheduling John Ashcroft to speak at an ACLU convention).

TMO

barney

In article <[email protected] >,
[email protected] (Bobby Fischler) wrote:

    > The English have an odd habit of calling
    > Muslims - asians

In fact they have a reasonable habit of calling Asians Asians.