Train Robbers in Italy
Jul 27th 2004, 1:11 am
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy
"Tim Challenger" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:52:55 +1200, Daisy wrote:
> > So please don't be so smug and patronising about this. There is
> > apparently a gang of these people operating and sometimes they even
> > use harmful sprays to incapacitate people.
> We're only being as smug and patronising as you are being reactionary.
> Now, if you'd said something like: "A warning to those travelling on
> European overnight trains to be extra careful as there's an organised gang
> working..." then we may have been a little more interested. Instead you
> opened up with a slagging off of Italy. In fact you should be complaining
> about the gang of "Eastern Europeans".
I couldn't agree more!
> So, to answer your original question, using the information you only *now*
> provide :
> "The police to whom it was reported said it was just as well the victims
> were asleep because it could have been quite nasty otherwise.
> Is this a civilized country or what - and is this the sort of reaction
> you would expect?"
> Yes and yes. You say the gang can be violent. Best thing to do is let them
> take the money.
> But I turn the question around:
> "The last time I was in L.A. - July 2003 - we were on a bus from Santa
> Monica to Marina del Rey and a doped-out flake got on the bus and
> frightened the hell out of most of the passengers. I will never ever
> get a bus in LA again!"
> Is the USA a civilized country or what?
Is there any civilized country at all?
Edoardo
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:52:55 +1200, Daisy wrote:
> > So please don't be so smug and patronising about this. There is
> > apparently a gang of these people operating and sometimes they even
> > use harmful sprays to incapacitate people.
> We're only being as smug and patronising as you are being reactionary.
> Now, if you'd said something like: "A warning to those travelling on
> European overnight trains to be extra careful as there's an organised gang
> working..." then we may have been a little more interested. Instead you
> opened up with a slagging off of Italy. In fact you should be complaining
> about the gang of "Eastern Europeans".
I couldn't agree more!
> So, to answer your original question, using the information you only *now*
> provide :
> "The police to whom it was reported said it was just as well the victims
> were asleep because it could have been quite nasty otherwise.
> Is this a civilized country or what - and is this the sort of reaction
> you would expect?"
> Yes and yes. You say the gang can be violent. Best thing to do is let them
> take the money.
> But I turn the question around:
> "The last time I was in L.A. - July 2003 - we were on a bus from Santa
> Monica to Marina del Rey and a doped-out flake got on the bus and
> frightened the hell out of most of the passengers. I will never ever
> get a bus in LA again!"
> Is the USA a civilized country or what?
Is there any civilized country at all?
Edoardo
Jul 27th 2004, 2:34 am
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy
Tim Challenger extrapolated from data available...
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:46:03 +1200, Daisy wrote:
>
>> and the other victims in the carriage were also Italian
>> residents -- NOT tourists!
>
> I would hope so as you say they'd just been paid in cash for work
> done.
>
> We can draw one of at least 2 possible conclusions here:
> 1) The Italian residents (including your son) are so stupid that even
> living in a country rife with robbers and crime that they *still*
> haven't cottoned to the fact that it might be a good idea to keep
> your cash somewhere difficult to get at, or
> 2) Even *they* know that there really isn't as much crime as you are
> trying to make out, and in fact that the overnight train (and possibly
> Italy in general) is generally a pretty safe place to be.
>
That's sort of my reaction. I can hardly deny that a robbery can have
occureed aboard an Italian night train, but suspect that the occurrence is
no more indicative of what one might expect that would be a single robbery
on the NYC/DC Amtrak.
....and then, while "robbery" is a broadly interpreted term (both in law
and conversation) encompassing everything from a bicycle purloined from an
open garage to a band of armed bandits at work, this one sure sounds like
the pickpockets/pilferage sort, no less harmful to the robbed, but not
Jesse James & gang boarding the coaches and terrorizing the pax with
hawglegs and shotguns. One might suspect that the "robbed" in this case had
by both beverage intake and careless cash stowage increased the odds in
favor of the banditi.
TMO
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:46:03 +1200, Daisy wrote:
>
>> and the other victims in the carriage were also Italian
>> residents -- NOT tourists!
>
> I would hope so as you say they'd just been paid in cash for work
> done.
>
> We can draw one of at least 2 possible conclusions here:
> 1) The Italian residents (including your son) are so stupid that even
> living in a country rife with robbers and crime that they *still*
> haven't cottoned to the fact that it might be a good idea to keep
> your cash somewhere difficult to get at, or
> 2) Even *they* know that there really isn't as much crime as you are
> trying to make out, and in fact that the overnight train (and possibly
> Italy in general) is generally a pretty safe place to be.
>
That's sort of my reaction. I can hardly deny that a robbery can have
occureed aboard an Italian night train, but suspect that the occurrence is
no more indicative of what one might expect that would be a single robbery
on the NYC/DC Amtrak.
....and then, while "robbery" is a broadly interpreted term (both in law
and conversation) encompassing everything from a bicycle purloined from an
open garage to a band of armed bandits at work, this one sure sounds like
the pickpockets/pilferage sort, no less harmful to the robbed, but not
Jesse James & gang boarding the coaches and terrorizing the pax with
hawglegs and shotguns. One might suspect that the "robbed" in this case had
by both beverage intake and careless cash stowage increased the odds in
favor of the banditi.
TMO
Jul 27th 2004, 5:01 am
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy
Daisy <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
> My son (who actually lives in Italy) was robbed on a night train
> between Pisa and Monaco the other night. The entire carriage was
> done, and 5 passengers relieved of their cash. The police to whom it
> was reported said it was just as well the victims were asleep because
> it could have been quite nasty otherwise.
>
> Is this a civilized country or what - and is this the sort of reaction
> you would expect?
>
> Keep your cash in your sox or down your bra would seem pretty well
> necessary in Italy.
>
>
> Daisy
There is an Italian language series on our educational TV station, "In
Italiano" I believe it's called. One of the episodes depicts a train
robbery! A husband and wife tourist couple get on a train. Another
couple join them in their compartment and offer them coffee, which is
spiked and puts them to sleep. They are then robbed.
I thought this was a very strange thing to include in a language
course. It indicates that train robberies may indeed be a problem in
Italy. (But I have ridden the trains extensively and have never had
any trouble.....)
> My son (who actually lives in Italy) was robbed on a night train
> between Pisa and Monaco the other night. The entire carriage was
> done, and 5 passengers relieved of their cash. The police to whom it
> was reported said it was just as well the victims were asleep because
> it could have been quite nasty otherwise.
>
> Is this a civilized country or what - and is this the sort of reaction
> you would expect?
>
> Keep your cash in your sox or down your bra would seem pretty well
> necessary in Italy.
>
>
> Daisy
There is an Italian language series on our educational TV station, "In
Italiano" I believe it's called. One of the episodes depicts a train
robbery! A husband and wife tourist couple get on a train. Another
couple join them in their compartment and offer them coffee, which is
spiked and puts them to sleep. They are then robbed.
I thought this was a very strange thing to include in a language
course. It indicates that train robberies may indeed be a problem in
Italy. (But I have ridden the trains extensively and have never had
any trouble.....)
Jul 27th 2004, 5:06 am
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy
Daisy wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:39:58 -0500, Olivers <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Daisy extrapolated from data available...
>>>If train travel is so unsafe in a supposedly first world country, what
>>>would you suggest? That the victims (and there were about a half
>>>dozen in the same carriage) - who had actually been paid in cash for
>>>work done immediately before they boarded the train - should have
>>>taken some sort of alternative action?
>>Did he have a work permit or appropriate visa?
>>TMO
>
>
> He lives in Italy and works there (yes and with a work permit of
> course!) and the other victims in the carriage were also Italian
> residents -- NOT tourists!
>
> Daisy
a bunch of guys are paid in cash, board a train and are robbed -- and it
doesn't occur to you that this was an inside job -- that one of the
others saw his opportunity and took it?
or did he phone home for you to send money --in which case maybe this
is a scam on Mom
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:39:58 -0500, Olivers <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Daisy extrapolated from data available...
>>>If train travel is so unsafe in a supposedly first world country, what
>>>would you suggest? That the victims (and there were about a half
>>>dozen in the same carriage) - who had actually been paid in cash for
>>>work done immediately before they boarded the train - should have
>>>taken some sort of alternative action?
>>Did he have a work permit or appropriate visa?
>>TMO
>
>
> He lives in Italy and works there (yes and with a work permit of
> course!) and the other victims in the carriage were also Italian
> residents -- NOT tourists!
>
> Daisy
a bunch of guys are paid in cash, board a train and are robbed -- and it
doesn't occur to you that this was an inside job -- that one of the
others saw his opportunity and took it?
or did he phone home for you to send money --in which case maybe this
is a scam on Mom
Jul 27th 2004, 6:22 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy & Muslims Gangs Stabbing Tourists In London
Daisy <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
> My son (who actually lives in Italy) was robbed on a night train
> between Pisa and Monaco the other night. The entire carriage was
> done, and 5 passengers relieved of their cash. The police to whom it
> was reported said it was just as well the victims were asleep because
> it could have been quite nasty otherwise.
>
> Is this a civilized country or what - and is this the sort of reaction
> you would expect?
>
> Keep your cash in your sox or down your bra would seem pretty well
> necessary in Italy.
>
>
> Daisy
Italy is usually very safe. I would be more concerned of Muslim gangs
in France and England. The English have an odd habit of calling
Muslims - asians. The Italian police are generally very good in
locking up subhumans.
http://icberkshire.icnetwork.co.uk/0...name_page.html
The doormen, who were working outside Club SL1 in the High Street,
sprang into action when they heard three men being attacked by a
15-strong gang of Asian men - some wearing Halloween masks.
At the time, top cops tipped them for an official award, but the pair
have never been formally commended for their courage that Saturday
night in November, 2002.
The three victims were set upon outside the Tavern Pub in Slough High
street and fled to Buckingham Gardens with the gang in pursuit.
Mr Banks was among those who rushed to the site were the three were
being attacked. One man was stabbed 18 times in the back, legs, arms
and stomach with one blow punching his lung.
His friend had 12 wounds on his body, while the third had a gash
across his eyebrow from a blow.
The bouncers then tended to the victims' wounds until the ambulance
took them to Wexham Park Hospital - and helped out when a fourth man
was later found with stab wounds outside the Vodafone store.
Do you know someone who has Taken a Stand? Perhaps a group of people
who have played a part in taking on the menace of anti-social
behaviour in your community? Phone the Express on 01753 825111.
> My son (who actually lives in Italy) was robbed on a night train
> between Pisa and Monaco the other night. The entire carriage was
> done, and 5 passengers relieved of their cash. The police to whom it
> was reported said it was just as well the victims were asleep because
> it could have been quite nasty otherwise.
>
> Is this a civilized country or what - and is this the sort of reaction
> you would expect?
>
> Keep your cash in your sox or down your bra would seem pretty well
> necessary in Italy.
>
>
> Daisy
Italy is usually very safe. I would be more concerned of Muslim gangs
in France and England. The English have an odd habit of calling
Muslims - asians. The Italian police are generally very good in
locking up subhumans.
http://icberkshire.icnetwork.co.uk/0...name_page.html
The doormen, who were working outside Club SL1 in the High Street,
sprang into action when they heard three men being attacked by a
15-strong gang of Asian men - some wearing Halloween masks.
At the time, top cops tipped them for an official award, but the pair
have never been formally commended for their courage that Saturday
night in November, 2002.
The three victims were set upon outside the Tavern Pub in Slough High
street and fled to Buckingham Gardens with the gang in pursuit.
Mr Banks was among those who rushed to the site were the three were
being attacked. One man was stabbed 18 times in the back, legs, arms
and stomach with one blow punching his lung.
His friend had 12 wounds on his body, while the third had a gash
across his eyebrow from a blow.
The bouncers then tended to the victims' wounds until the ambulance
took them to Wexham Park Hospital - and helped out when a fourth man
was later found with stab wounds outside the Vodafone store.
Do you know someone who has Taken a Stand? Perhaps a group of people
who have played a part in taking on the menace of anti-social
behaviour in your community? Phone the Express on 01753 825111.
Jul 27th 2004, 6:33 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Train Robbers in Italy? Rubbish, Italy is safer than Londonistan, Manchesteristan
"£¢$¥" <£¢$¥@phantom.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
> "Edoardo Vancini" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Daisy" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > Is this a civilized country or what -
> >
> > It's probably more civilized than any country hosting someone asking such
> a
> > question.
> >
> > Edoardo
> >
>
> Hey Edoardo, How nice of you to take some time off from ripping off tourists
> to fake some indignation here on this ng! Don't start pointing fingers at
> Daisy, because everyone that's ever travelled to Italy knows that in fact,
> it's a shithole. In my estimation about 95% of Italians are thieves, and
> the other 5% are already incarcerated.
>
> Italy was civilized at one point, maybe sometime during the Middle Ages (by
> Middle Age standards), but that glorious time has long since passed. Italy
> has nothing left but ghosts of memories, petty thieves, and corrupt
> politicians. Honestly, when was the last time that anything or anybody
> noteworthy came from Italy??
Ferrari and I could post hundreds of other examples. Valentino Rossi?
Armani? Beretta? Fabio? Oh forget Fabio.
> Crime is rampant in Italy, people here (including you Edoardo) will deny it
> simply because the entire economy in Italy is propped up by the summertime
> influx of tourist dollars!!
Rubbish. Northern Italy turns out hundreds of high end products for
export. The northern most parts of Italy have among the highest GNP
per capita in the world - yes world. This was in Forbes a few years
ago.
> WARNING TO ALL TOURISTS!! -- STAY OUT OF ITALY UNLESS YOU WANT YOUR VACATION
> RUINED!!
WTF! I have been to Italy and had a delightful time. Never had a
problem in Italy, Austria, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark,
Ireland etc. I was a bit concerned about the Muslim gangs in the UK
and France. England is OK in certain places but London is not really
safe. Manchester, Birmingham, Derby and other cicties are terrifying.
The Italian people are delightful, the food is fantastic, clothing,
furniture and just about everything else is A1.
> "Edoardo Vancini" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Daisy" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > Is this a civilized country or what -
> >
> > It's probably more civilized than any country hosting someone asking such
> a
> > question.
> >
> > Edoardo
> >
>
> Hey Edoardo, How nice of you to take some time off from ripping off tourists
> to fake some indignation here on this ng! Don't start pointing fingers at
> Daisy, because everyone that's ever travelled to Italy knows that in fact,
> it's a shithole. In my estimation about 95% of Italians are thieves, and
> the other 5% are already incarcerated.
>
> Italy was civilized at one point, maybe sometime during the Middle Ages (by
> Middle Age standards), but that glorious time has long since passed. Italy
> has nothing left but ghosts of memories, petty thieves, and corrupt
> politicians. Honestly, when was the last time that anything or anybody
> noteworthy came from Italy??
Ferrari and I could post hundreds of other examples. Valentino Rossi?
Armani? Beretta? Fabio? Oh forget Fabio.
> Crime is rampant in Italy, people here (including you Edoardo) will deny it
> simply because the entire economy in Italy is propped up by the summertime
> influx of tourist dollars!!
Rubbish. Northern Italy turns out hundreds of high end products for
export. The northern most parts of Italy have among the highest GNP
per capita in the world - yes world. This was in Forbes a few years
ago.
> WARNING TO ALL TOURISTS!! -- STAY OUT OF ITALY UNLESS YOU WANT YOUR VACATION
> RUINED!!
WTF! I have been to Italy and had a delightful time. Never had a
problem in Italy, Austria, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark,
Ireland etc. I was a bit concerned about the Muslim gangs in the UK
and France. England is OK in certain places but London is not really
safe. Manchester, Birmingham, Derby and other cicties are terrifying.
The Italian people are delightful, the food is fantastic, clothing,
furniture and just about everything else is A1.
Jul 27th 2004, 6:58 am
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy & Muslims Gangs Stabbing Tourists In London
arealman wrote:
>>Do you know someone who has Taken a Stand? Perhaps a group of people
>>who have played a part in taking on the menace of anti-social
>>behaviour in your community? Phone the Express on 01753 825111.
>>
>Since the Polititians and Police won't take a stand, perhaps we need
>vigilate groups to teach them how the job should be done.
>
Or perhaps you could mind your own ****ing business and then you
wouldn't have to worry about it.
--
----
That's not really Saddam, it's one of his surgically altered look a-likes.
www.patism.co.nr
>>Do you know someone who has Taken a Stand? Perhaps a group of people
>>who have played a part in taking on the menace of anti-social
>>behaviour in your community? Phone the Express on 01753 825111.
>>
>Since the Polititians and Police won't take a stand, perhaps we need
>vigilate groups to teach them how the job should be done.
>
Or perhaps you could mind your own ****ing business and then you
wouldn't have to worry about it.
--
----
That's not really Saddam, it's one of his surgically altered look a-likes.
www.patism.co.nr
Jul 27th 2004, 7:01 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy & Muslims Gangs Stabbing Tourists In London
> Do you know someone who has Taken a Stand? Perhaps a group of people
> who have played a part in taking on the menace of anti-social
> behaviour in your community? Phone the Express on 01753 825111.
Since the Polititians and Police won't take a stand, perhaps we need
vigilate groups to teach them how the job should be done.
> who have played a part in taking on the menace of anti-social
> behaviour in your community? Phone the Express on 01753 825111.
Since the Polititians and Police won't take a stand, perhaps we need
vigilate groups to teach them how the job should be done.
Jul 27th 2004, 7:21 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy & Muslims Gangs Stabbing Tourists In London
"Bobby Fischler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The English have an odd habit of calling
> Muslims - asians
Err, no. "Asians" in British usage are south Asians. Many are Sikhs or
Hindus.
Alan Harrison
news:[email protected]...
> The English have an odd habit of calling
> Muslims - asians
Err, no. "Asians" in British usage are south Asians. Many are Sikhs or
Hindus.
Alan Harrison
Jul 27th 2004, 7:47 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy & Muslims Gangs Stabbing Tourists In London
> >
> >
> >
> Or perhaps you could mind your own ****ing business and then you
> wouldn't have to worry about it.
Maybe you'd care to make me !
> >
> >
> Or perhaps you could mind your own ****ing business and then you
> wouldn't have to worry about it.
Maybe you'd care to make me !
Jul 27th 2004, 9:51 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy?
Don't tell Blair. Apparently he and his family are to visit the Italian
PM, Sivio Berlusconi, at his lexery villa in Sardegna in August!
Not that they are likey to have musch trouble with thieves, not common
ones anyway! Sivlio Berlusconi is heavily linked with the Mafia and P2,
and in any case his villa, which is full of fantastic extensions such as
a jetty big enougth for luxery yachts and a mock greek amphitheatre, is
all covered by state secrets so the local planning authority can't get
fussy.
Ah, Italy, a great place to visit if you have friends in the right places!
PM, Sivio Berlusconi, at his lexery villa in Sardegna in August!
Not that they are likey to have musch trouble with thieves, not common
ones anyway! Sivlio Berlusconi is heavily linked with the Mafia and P2,
and in any case his villa, which is full of fantastic extensions such as
a jetty big enougth for luxery yachts and a mock greek amphitheatre, is
all covered by state secrets so the local planning authority can't get
fussy.
Ah, Italy, a great place to visit if you have friends in the right places!
Jul 27th 2004, 1:32 pm
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy
In article <[email protected]>, jenn <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> a bunch of guys are paid in cash, board a train and are robbed -- and it
> doesn't occur to you that this was an inside job -- that one of the
> others saw his opportunity and took it?
>
> or did he phone home for you to send money --in which case maybe this
> is a scam on Mom
The strange about this story is that the robbers were able to do their
deeds without anyone else being awake. I've taken many night trains
before - not once was I able to be sound asleep, and I was never the
only one awake.
I agree with the above - probably a scam on Mom or an inside job. See
I'd probably do the same with my mom if only she wouldn't cjust have a
heart attack and forbid me to travel anywhere forever.
-Vicky
wrote:
>
> a bunch of guys are paid in cash, board a train and are robbed -- and it
> doesn't occur to you that this was an inside job -- that one of the
> others saw his opportunity and took it?
>
> or did he phone home for you to send money --in which case maybe this
> is a scam on Mom
The strange about this story is that the robbers were able to do their
deeds without anyone else being awake. I've taken many night trains
before - not once was I able to be sound asleep, and I was never the
only one awake.
I agree with the above - probably a scam on Mom or an inside job. See
I'd probably do the same with my mom if only she wouldn't cjust have a
heart attack and forbid me to travel anywhere forever.
-Vicky
Jul 27th 2004, 5:48 pm
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy? Rubbish, Italy is safer than Londonistan, Manchesteristan
[email protected] (Bobby Fischler) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
Where the **** is "Londonistan" and "Manchesteristan" - of course
Italy is safer than these places becasue you just made them up.
And anyway, sitting in New Zealand what would you know about crime
rates in Britain and Italy?
Ian
Where the **** is "Londonistan" and "Manchesteristan" - of course
Italy is safer than these places becasue you just made them up.
And anyway, sitting in New Zealand what would you know about crime
rates in Britain and Italy?
Ian
Jul 27th 2004, 6:04 pm
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy
Daisy <[email protected]> wrote:
> Most of you have jumped to the conclusion that this crime was visited
> upon a naive tourist.who should have known better than to keep any
> money in a zipped-up bag between his legs.
I'm still confused about this. He fell asleep on a train with salary in
such a place that it could be located and removed without disturbing
him? He may not be a tourist, but he is naive.
And lucky he wasn't awoken? It's close to extraordinary none of them
woke. And if these guys get violent when people wake, they must get
violent on nearly every robbery. Anyone read the italian newspapers?
Surely this would make headlines.
joan
--
Joan McGalliard, UK http://www.mcgalliard.org
> Most of you have jumped to the conclusion that this crime was visited
> upon a naive tourist.who should have known better than to keep any
> money in a zipped-up bag between his legs.
I'm still confused about this. He fell asleep on a train with salary in
such a place that it could be located and removed without disturbing
him? He may not be a tourist, but he is naive.
And lucky he wasn't awoken? It's close to extraordinary none of them
woke. And if these guys get violent when people wake, they must get
violent on nearly every robbery. Anyone read the italian newspapers?
Surely this would make headlines.
joan
--
Joan McGalliard, UK http://www.mcgalliard.org
Jul 27th 2004, 7:15 pm
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Train Robbers in Italy
"Joan McGalliard" <jem*NO-SPAM*@netspace.net.au> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:1ghmgnw.1mavl4iou4c1cN%jem*NO-S...etspace.net.au...
> Daisy <[email protected]> wrote:
> And if these guys get violent when people wake, they must get
> violent on nearly every robbery. Anyone read the italian newspapers?
> Surely this would make headlines.
Never read anyithing.
Edoardo
news:1ghmgnw.1mavl4iou4c1cN%jem*NO-S...etspace.net.au...
> Daisy <[email protected]> wrote:
> And if these guys get violent when people wake, they must get
> violent on nearly every robbery. Anyone read the italian newspapers?
> Surely this would make headlines.
Never read anyithing.
Edoardo
