£¢$¥

"Edoardo Vancini" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Daisy" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Is this a civilized country or what -
    > It's probably more civilized than any country hosting someone asking such
a
    > question.
    > Edoardo

Hey Edoardo, How nice of you to take some time off from ripping off tourists
to fake some indignation here on this ng! Don't start pointing fingers at
Daisy, because everyone that's ever travelled to Italy knows that in fact,
it's a shithole. In my estimation about 95% of Italians are thieves, and
the other 5% are already incarcerated.

Italy was civilized at one point, maybe sometime during the Middle Ages (by
Middle Age standards), but that glorious time has long since passed. Italy
has nothing left but ghosts of memories, petty thieves, and corrupt
politicians. Honestly, when was the last time that anything or anybody
noteworthy came from Italy??

Crime is rampant in Italy, people here (including you Edoardo) will deny it
simply because the entire economy in Italy is propped up by the summertime
influx of tourist dollars!!

WARNING TO ALL TOURISTS!! -- STAY OUT OF ITALY UNLESS YOU WANT YOUR VACATION
RUINED!!

Runge

Send your son to some parts of LA and you'll see what a real civilized
country is

"Daisy" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:47:31 +0200, Tim Challenger
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:40:59 +1200, Daisy wrote:
    > >
    > >> My son (who actually lives in Italy) was robbed on a night train
    > >> between Pisa and Monaco the other night. The entire carriage was
    > >> done, and 5 passengers relieved of their cash. The police to whom it
    > >> was reported said it was just as well the victims were asleep because
    > >> it could have been quite nasty otherwise.
    > >>
    > >> Is this a civilized country or what - and is this the sort of reaction
    > >> you would expect?
    > >>
    > >> Keep your cash in your sox or down your bra would seem pretty well
    > >> necessary in Italy.
    > >
    > >Tell me, did they put some sort of sleeping-gas through the
    > >air-conditioning first as in the other versions of this story?
    > >
    > >Even if it *is* true (which I doubt), think the message is to not go to
    > >sleep with your money lying around.
    > Hello? One gets on a train at 2.30 am (not pm you understand!) to
    > travel to France, and one only catches a train at this time because
    > one has to. Get it? And one gets robbed because one is asleep.
    > Are you saying that people should not travel at night with cash
    > because they could be robbed?
    > If train travel is so unsafe in a supposedly first world country, what
    > would you suggest? That the victims (and there were about a half
    > dozen in the same carriage) - who had actually been paid in cash for
    > work done immediately before they boarded the train - should have
    > taken some sort of alternative action?
    > Surely the message here is that if night-time travel on Italian trains
    > is subject to this sort of crime, people should be made aware?
    > Especially tourists - this is midsummer after all,
    > Perhaps my son will put money into his sox - or down his girlfriend's
    > bra, or somewhere else less at risk - but the bottom line is, why
    > should he have to?
    > Daisy

Runge

Hey another kook
USA again?

"£¢$¥" <£¢$¥@phantom.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
    > "Edoardo Vancini" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Daisy" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > > Is this a civilized country or what -
    > >
    > > It's probably more civilized than any country hosting someone asking
such
    > a
    > > question.
    > >
    > > Edoardo
    > >
    > Hey Edoardo, How nice of you to take some time off from ripping off
tourists
    > to fake some indignation here on this ng! Don't start pointing fingers at
    > Daisy, because everyone that's ever travelled to Italy knows that in fact,
    > it's a shithole. In my estimation about 95% of Italians are thieves, and
    > the other 5% are already incarcerated.
    > Italy was civilized at one point, maybe sometime during the Middle Ages
(by
    > Middle Age standards), but that glorious time has long since passed.
Italy
    > has nothing left but ghosts of memories, petty thieves, and corrupt
    > politicians. Honestly, when was the last time that anything or anybody
    > noteworthy came from Italy??
    > Crime is rampant in Italy, people here (including you Edoardo) will deny
it
    > simply because the entire economy in Italy is propped up by the summertime
    > influx of tourist dollars!!
    > WARNING TO ALL TOURISTS!! -- STAY OUT OF ITALY UNLESS YOU WANT YOUR
VACATION
    > RUINED!!

Deep Flawed Muslim

Daisy <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
    > On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:47:31 +0200, Tim Challenger
    > <[email protected]> wrote:

    > >
    > >Tell me, did they put some sort of sleeping-gas through the
    > >air-conditioning first as in the other versions of this story?
    > >
    > >Even if it *is* true (which I doubt), think the message is to not go to
    > >sleep with your money lying around.
    >
    > Hello? One gets on a train at 2.30 am (not pm you understand!) to
    > travel to France, and one only catches a train at this time because
    > one has to. Get it? And one gets robbed because one is asleep.
    > Are you saying that people should not travel at night with cash
    > because they could be robbed?

Your story smells of bullshit, and even if it is true, could happen in
any country in Europe, or out of Europe (with a couple of exceptions).
If you keep your money etc. next to your belly, it is EXTREMELY
difficult for someone to relieve you of it without you knowing. I find
it hard to believe they could get 6 peoples money without someone
realising.

    > If train travel is so unsafe in a supposedly first world country, what
    > would you suggest? That the victims (and there were about a half
    > dozen in the same carriage) - who had actually been paid in cash for
    > work done immediately before they boarded the train - should have
    > taken some sort of alternative action?

These people all knew each other too? Me thinks there is more to this
story than meets the eye. Did you happen to send your son more money
by any chance?

    > Surely the message here is that if night-time travel on Italian trains
    > is subject to this sort of crime, people should be made aware?
    > Especially tourists - this is midsummer after all,

If you are stupid enough to assume this sort of thing can't happen on
a night train, chances are you'll be separated from your cash at some
other point along the way.

    > Perhaps my son will put money into his sox - or down his girlfriend's
    > bra, or somewhere else less at risk - but the bottom line is, why
    > should he have to?

I can see where he gets his brains from.
---
DFM

Tim Challenger

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 13:50:49 -0500, £¢$¥ wrote:

    > because everyone that's ever travelled to Italy knows that in fact,
    > it's a shithole.

I doubt you'll find that's the general opinion here.

    >.... the entire economy in Italy is propped up by the summertime
    >influx of tourist dollars!!

Which just goes to show how stupid some Americans can be, doesn't it?

--
Tim C.

Edoardo Vancini

Don't feed the trolls!

Edoardo

Daisy

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:39:58 -0500, Olivers <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Daisy extrapolated from data available...
    >
    >>
    >> If train travel is so unsafe in a supposedly first world country, what
    >> would you suggest? That the victims (and there were about a half
    >> dozen in the same carriage) - who had actually been paid in cash for
    >> work done immediately before they boarded the train - should have
    >> taken some sort of alternative action?
    >Did he have a work permit or appropriate visa?
    >TMO

He lives in Italy and works there (yes and with a work permit of
course!) and the other victims in the carriage were also Italian
residents -- NOT tourists!

Daisy

Daisy

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 21:38:30 +0200, "Runge" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Send your son to some parts of LA and you'll see what a real civilized
    >country is

The last time I was in L.A. - July 2003 - we were on a bus from Santa
Monica to Marina del Rey and a doped-out flake got on the bus and
frightened the hell out of most of the passengers. I will never ever
get a bus in LA again!

    >"Daisy" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:47:31 +0200, Tim Challenger
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 20:40:59 +1200, Daisy wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> My son (who actually lives in Italy) was robbed on a night train
    >> >> between Pisa and Monaco the other night. The entire carriage was
    >> >> done, and 5 passengers relieved of their cash. The police to whom it
    >> >> was reported said it was just as well the victims were asleep because
    >> >> it could have been quite nasty otherwise.
    >> >>
    >> >> Is this a civilized country or what - and is this the sort of reaction
    >> >> you would expect?
    >> >>
    >> >> Keep your cash in your sox or down your bra would seem pretty well
    >> >> necessary in Italy.
    >> >
    >> >Tell me, did they put some sort of sleeping-gas through the
    >> >air-conditioning first as in the other versions of this story?
    >> >
    >> >Even if it *is* true (which I doubt), think the message is to not go to
    >> >sleep with your money lying around.
    >> Hello? One gets on a train at 2.30 am (not pm you understand!) to
    >> travel to France, and one only catches a train at this time because
    >> one has to. Get it? And one gets robbed because one is asleep.
    >> Are you saying that people should not travel at night with cash
    >> because they could be robbed?
    >> If train travel is so unsafe in a supposedly first world country, what
    >> would you suggest? That the victims (and there were about a half
    >> dozen in the same carriage) - who had actually been paid in cash for
    >> work done immediately before they boarded the train - should have
    >> taken some sort of alternative action?
    >> Surely the message here is that if night-time travel on Italian trains
    >> is subject to this sort of crime, people should be made aware?
    >> Especially tourists - this is midsummer after all,
    >> Perhaps my son will put money into his sox - or down his girlfriend's
    >> bra, or somewhere else less at risk - but the bottom line is, why
    >> should he have to?
    >> Daisy

Daisy

Daisy

On 26 Jul 2004 14:33:59 -0700, [email protected] (Deep Flawed
Muslim) wrote:

    >Daisy <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
    >> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:47:31 +0200, Tim Challenger
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >Tell me, did they put some sort of sleeping-gas through the
    >> >air-conditioning first as in the other versions of this story?
    >> >
    >> >Even if it *is* true (which I doubt), think the message is to not go to
    >> >sleep with your money lying around.
    >>
    >> Hello? One gets on a train at 2.30 am (not pm you understand!) to
    >> travel to France, and one only catches a train at this time because
    >> one has to. Get it? And one gets robbed because one is asleep.
    >> Are you saying that people should not travel at night with cash
    >> because they could be robbed?
    >Your story smells of bullshit, and even if it is true, could happen in
    >any country in Europe, or out of Europe (with a couple of exceptions).
    >If you keep your money etc. next to your belly, it is EXTREMELY
    >difficult for someone to relieve you of it without you knowing. I find
    >it hard to believe they could get 6 peoples money without someone
    >realising.
    >> If train travel is so unsafe in a supposedly first world country, what
    >> would you suggest? That the victims (and there were about a half
    >> dozen in the same carriage) - who had actually been paid in cash for
    >> work done immediately before they boarded the train - should have
    >> taken some sort of alternative action?
    >These people all knew each other too? Me thinks there is more to this
    >story than meets the eye. Did you happen to send your son more money
    >by any chance?
    >> Surely the message here is that if night-time travel on Italian trains
    >> is subject to this sort of crime, people should be made aware?
    >> Especially tourists - this is midsummer after all,
    >If you are stupid enough to assume this sort of thing can't happen on
    >a night train, chances are you'll be separated from your cash at some
    >other point along the way.
    >
    >> Perhaps my son will put money into his sox - or down his girlfriend's
    >> bra, or somewhere else less at risk - but the bottom line is, why
    >> should he have to?
    >I can see where he gets his brains from.
    >---
    >DFM

When the Italian police were notified of the train robberies in
Ventimiglia they said it was just as well they were all asleep -
because a gang of Eastern European thugs had been doing these trains
for a few weeks and if they were challenged, were quite violent.

People are told NOT to wear money belts because they can be cut into -
but all the same night-trains in Europe are not advised unless one has
a wagon-lit - and these are expensive.

My son lives and works in Italy and has done for three years - he is
not a naive innocent tourist. He was travelling with 3 other
Italians who are frequent train travellers in Italy - and it was the
first time they had been robbed on a train as well - and they were all
asleep when it happened.

So please don't be so smug and patronising about this. There is
apparently a gang of these people operating and sometimes they even
use harmful sprays to incapacitate people.


Daisy

Tim Challenger

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:46:03 +1200, Daisy wrote:

    > and the other victims in the carriage were also Italian
    > residents -- NOT tourists!

I would hope so as you say they'd just been paid in cash for work done.

We can draw one of at least 2 possible conclusions here:
1) The Italian residents (including your son) are so stupid that even
living in a country rife with robbers and crime that they *still* haven't
cottoned to the fact that it might be a good idea to keep your cash
somewhere difficult to get at, or
2) Even *they* know that there really isn't as much crime as you are trying
to make out, and in fact that the overnight train (and possibly Italy in
general) is generally a pretty safe place to be.

Take your pick.

--
Tim C.

Tim Challenger

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:52:55 +1200, Daisy wrote:

    > Hello? One gets on a train at 2.30 am (not pm you understand!) to
    >>> travel to France, and one only catches a train at this time because
    >>> one has to. Get it?

I don't know. It can be a useful way of getting to somewhere fresh and
saving "real" time in the process. I have occasionally taken night trains -
ok not at 2:30 but around 1:30 or so to get somewhere early the next day.
Very pleasant it can be as well. Get it?

--
Tim C.

Daisy

Most of you have jumped to the conclusion that this crime was visited
upon a naive tourist.who should have known better than to keep any
money in a zipped-up bag between his legs.

The Pisa-Nice train did indeed leave at around 2.30 a.m. and my son
caught it at that time because he had just finished performing in a
dance show there and was due to take a dance class in Monte Carlo at
1,00 pm the following afternoon. The cash he was carrying was the
payment he received from the dance show in Pisa. This is apparently
how such payments are made.

When the theft was reported to the police they were very sympathetic
and said a notorious gang of Eastern Europeans had been doing night
trains during the summer season in Italy. The gang targeted night
trains because most passengers were asleep and they were very quick
and slick. They did not touch credit cards or passports - only cash.

What do all you people safe at home suggest? That travellers in
Europe never carry any cash - or that they carry it on their persons?
This latter is of course ideal, but these gangs are known to cut the
shirts of people and assault them - and money belts are frequently cut
away as well.

No one is really safe, I realise that. But wouldn't you think that
the authorities would at least try to ensure that train travel is safe
- even if it means security guards patrolling carriages?


Daisy

Tim Challenger

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:52:55 +1200, Daisy wrote:

    > So please don't be so smug and patronising about this. There is
    > apparently a gang of these people operating and sometimes they even
    > use harmful sprays to incapacitate people.

We're only being as smug and patronising as you are being reactionary.
Now, if you'd said something like: "A warning to those travelling on
European overnight trains to be extra careful as there's an organised gang
working..." then we may have been a little more interested. Instead you
opened up with a slagging off of Italy. In fact you should be complaining
about the gang of "Eastern Europeans".

So, to answer your original question, using the information you only *now*
provide :
"The police to whom it was reported said it was just as well the victims
were asleep because it could have been quite nasty otherwise.

Is this a civilized country or what - and is this the sort of reaction
you would expect?"

Yes and yes. You say the gang can be violent. Best thing to do is let them
take the money.


But I turn the question around:
"The last time I was in L.A. - July 2003 - we were on a bus from Santa
Monica to Marina del Rey and a doped-out flake got on the bus and
frightened the hell out of most of the passengers. I will never ever
get a bus in LA again!"

Is the USA a civilized country or what?

--
Tim C.

Edoardo Vancini

"Daisy" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...

    > No one is really safe, I realise that. But wouldn't you think that
    > the authorities would at least try to ensure that train travel is safe
    > - even if it means security guards patrolling carriages?

Any idea about how many train carriages travel every day in Italy???

Edoardo

Tim Challenger

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:07:24 +1200, Daisy wrote:

    > But wouldn't you think that
    > the authorities would at least try to ensure that train travel is safe
    > - even if it means security guards patrolling carriages?

And what is the actual rate of robberies on Italian trains?

--
Tim C.