Thoughts on Rome...
Mar 21st 2005 | 8:08 am
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Thoughts on Rome...
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:22:03 -0000, "Ross Lyn" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"B Vaughan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
><< I'm sure the original poster was responding to those huge Rome scare
> postings made a few weeks ago, the ones that reported at least a dozen
> molestations experienced in the course of a 2-day visit to Rome.>>
>How can you be sure? Are you clairvoyant?
No, but I'm capable of understanding context.
>The original poster made a series of fatuous statements along the lines of
>"Golly Gee, I walked abroad on the mean streets of Rome and wasn't molested"
>If people persist in augmenting the crowds milling about in the hot-spots
>like The Spanish Steps, The Trevi Fountain, The Ponte di Paglia in Venice,
>outside the Duomo in Florence and The Termini Station in Rome but do not
>take normal, sensible precautions, then they deserve what they get.
Golly gee, you sure know a lot of places in Italy! You must be one of
those sophisticated guys who knows just about everything!
>There are plenty of bits of Italy where the level of crime is almost
>negligible.
>How many Gypsies, beggars and pickpockets are there wandering around at
>large in Corinaldo? I suspect the only criminal activity which takes place
>there involves dodgy accounting procedures.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
wrote:
>"B Vaughan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
><< I'm sure the original poster was responding to those huge Rome scare
> postings made a few weeks ago, the ones that reported at least a dozen
> molestations experienced in the course of a 2-day visit to Rome.>>
>How can you be sure? Are you clairvoyant?
No, but I'm capable of understanding context.
>The original poster made a series of fatuous statements along the lines of
>"Golly Gee, I walked abroad on the mean streets of Rome and wasn't molested"
>If people persist in augmenting the crowds milling about in the hot-spots
>like The Spanish Steps, The Trevi Fountain, The Ponte di Paglia in Venice,
>outside the Duomo in Florence and The Termini Station in Rome but do not
>take normal, sensible precautions, then they deserve what they get.
Golly gee, you sure know a lot of places in Italy! You must be one of
those sophisticated guys who knows just about everything!
>There are plenty of bits of Italy where the level of crime is almost
>negligible.
>How many Gypsies, beggars and pickpockets are there wandering around at
>large in Corinaldo? I suspect the only criminal activity which takes place
>there involves dodgy accounting procedures.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
Mar 21st 2005 | 8:20 am
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Thoughts on Rome...
Martin*D.*Pay wrote:
>Highlight of the trip for me - walking
>through the Forum and seeing flowers
>placed on the spot where Caesar was
>assassinated.
Martin, sorry to have to be the one to rain on your parade :(.
But that is the location where Julius Caesar was cremated by the mob
after Marc Antony's speech from the Rostra.
The assassination site is ~1km NW of where the flowers are.
The Senate meeting that day was held in the Curia Pompey, which was a
bldg in the large Theater of Pompey complex.
Caesar's funeral was held 3 days later (some historians say 5).
The mob looted the shops on the northside of the Forum of tables,
chairs and anything that would burn and piled it all up. And at the top
they placed Caesar's bier.
They picked that location because Caesar was Pontifex Maximus
(basically the chief priest over the Vestal Virgins) and that spot was
in front of the Regia which was the Pontifex Maximus' office and a very
sacred bldg.
What you saw the flowers placed on was the concrete/rubble core of what
once was a circular altar within that recess that marked the spot of the
funeral pyre.
The next day his bones were retrieved and placed in his family tomb
(location unknown).
The legend is that the ashes from the fire are buried beneath the
altar. Which isn't to far-fetched, the ashes from the Vestal's fire were
saved and ceremonially dumped in the Tiber once a year and Julius Caesar
was declared Divine at his funeral. So what do you do with a God's
sacred ashes, can't throw them in the dump:).
Regards, Walter
..And Paradise Was Lost...like teardrops in the rain...
>Highlight of the trip for me - walking
>through the Forum and seeing flowers
>placed on the spot where Caesar was
>assassinated.
Martin, sorry to have to be the one to rain on your parade :(.
But that is the location where Julius Caesar was cremated by the mob
after Marc Antony's speech from the Rostra.
The assassination site is ~1km NW of where the flowers are.
The Senate meeting that day was held in the Curia Pompey, which was a
bldg in the large Theater of Pompey complex.
Caesar's funeral was held 3 days later (some historians say 5).
The mob looted the shops on the northside of the Forum of tables,
chairs and anything that would burn and piled it all up. And at the top
they placed Caesar's bier.
They picked that location because Caesar was Pontifex Maximus
(basically the chief priest over the Vestal Virgins) and that spot was
in front of the Regia which was the Pontifex Maximus' office and a very
sacred bldg.
What you saw the flowers placed on was the concrete/rubble core of what
once was a circular altar within that recess that marked the spot of the
funeral pyre.
The next day his bones were retrieved and placed in his family tomb
(location unknown).
The legend is that the ashes from the fire are buried beneath the
altar. Which isn't to far-fetched, the ashes from the Vestal's fire were
saved and ceremonially dumped in the Tiber once a year and Julius Caesar
was declared Divine at his funeral. So what do you do with a God's
sacred ashes, can't throw them in the dump:).
Regards, Walter
..And Paradise Was Lost...like teardrops in the rain...
Mar 21st 2005 | 8:27 am
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Thoughts on Rome...
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 00:52:35 +1100, Alan S <[email protected]>
mangled uncounted electrons thus:
>On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 12:49:46 -0000, "Ross Lyn" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
<once again, snip original post for brevity>
>|Does the word "Patronising" exist in your vocabulary?
>|
>Are we reading the same post? I didn't notice that at all. To the OP -
>Pompeii was wonderful (but I'm an ancient sites nut anyway) but Naples
>itself was, well, the only place I found where the drivers were worse
>than Rome and with incredible pollution. See Pompeii and the coast,
>but ignore Naples IMO.
<grin> My mother-in-law has said much the same. She found the
Naples traffic somewhat... stressful... ^_^
>And see if Shirley will lurk for a while in the other ng I
>mentioned:-)
Heh. Shirley isn't a great usenet person - in fact she isn't a
usenet person at all. I'll try to drop over sometime myself,
though, and represent her by proxy!
Martin D. Pay
There are few things more frustrating for a traveler than a
medical condition that needs careful monitoring, IMO...
mangled uncounted electrons thus:
>On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 12:49:46 -0000, "Ross Lyn" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
<once again, snip original post for brevity>
>|Does the word "Patronising" exist in your vocabulary?
>|
>Are we reading the same post? I didn't notice that at all. To the OP -
>Pompeii was wonderful (but I'm an ancient sites nut anyway) but Naples
>itself was, well, the only place I found where the drivers were worse
>than Rome and with incredible pollution. See Pompeii and the coast,
>but ignore Naples IMO.
<grin> My mother-in-law has said much the same. She found the
Naples traffic somewhat... stressful... ^_^
>And see if Shirley will lurk for a while in the other ng I
>mentioned:-)
Heh. Shirley isn't a great usenet person - in fact she isn't a
usenet person at all. I'll try to drop over sometime myself,
though, and represent her by proxy!
Martin D. Pay
There are few things more frustrating for a traveler than a
medical condition that needs careful monitoring, IMO...
Mar 21st 2005 | 8:27 am
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Thoughts on Rome...
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 13:07:23 -0800, "Mimi" <[email protected]>
mangled uncounted electrons thus:
>"Ross Lyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
<yet more snippage>
>> It is a fact of life that people on holiday drop their guard and are not
>> as tuned in as they are on their own home ground. This makes it a bit
>> easier for the low life so they gravitate towards places with large
>> concentrations of tourists such as Railway Stations. This is not a
>> phenomena common only to Europe.
>You seem to be a new poster. In the past there has been lots of postings
>about the area around Rome's Termini station being an unpleasant and
>undesirable area for staying. Also lots of talk about petty crime in Italy,
>especially by groups of gypsy women and children. Some individuals are very
>put off by all such talk. I think this poster was trying to be reassuring.
That was my general intention, yes. I felt that the negative
posts should be allowed a counter from someone with (very) recent
experience. Perhaps my typically British habit of studied
understatement didn't really pay off... ^_^
Martin D. Pay
Still no .sig comes to mind...
mangled uncounted electrons thus:
>"Ross Lyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
<yet more snippage>
>> It is a fact of life that people on holiday drop their guard and are not
>> as tuned in as they are on their own home ground. This makes it a bit
>> easier for the low life so they gravitate towards places with large
>> concentrations of tourists such as Railway Stations. This is not a
>> phenomena common only to Europe.
>You seem to be a new poster. In the past there has been lots of postings
>about the area around Rome's Termini station being an unpleasant and
>undesirable area for staying. Also lots of talk about petty crime in Italy,
>especially by groups of gypsy women and children. Some individuals are very
>put off by all such talk. I think this poster was trying to be reassuring.
That was my general intention, yes. I felt that the negative
posts should be allowed a counter from someone with (very) recent
experience. Perhaps my typically British habit of studied
understatement didn't really pay off... ^_^
Martin D. Pay
Still no .sig comes to mind...
Mar 21st 2005 | 8:27 am
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Thoughts on Rome...
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:22:03 -0000, "Ross Lyn"
<[email protected]> mangled uncounted electrons thus:
>"B Vaughan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
><< I'm sure the original poster was responding to those huge Rome scare
> postings made a few weeks ago, the ones that reported at least a dozen
> molestations experienced in the course of a 2-day visit to Rome.>>
>How can you be sure? Are you clairvoyant?
Y'know, you're bordering on objectionable, now...
>The original poster made a series of fatuous statements along the lines of
>"Golly Gee, I walked abroad on the mean streets of Rome and wasn't molested"
On a purely personal note, I take exception to 'fatuous'...
You're entitled to your opinion, though. I guess.
>If people persist in augmenting the crowds milling about in the hot-spots
>like The Spanish Steps, The Trevi Fountain, The Ponte di Paglia in Venice,
>outside the Duomo in Florence and The Termini Station in Rome but do not
>take normal, sensible precautions, then they deserve what they get.
This is getting well off-topic, but I can't let that go
unchallenged. No-one *deserves* to be mugged/robbed/assaulted,
whether or not they meet your standards of personal care.
You've passed 'bordering on objectionable' and become quite
obnoxious.
>There are plenty of bits of Italy where the level of crime is almost
>negligible.
Have I suggested that this isn't the case? Crime is a fact of
life; more in cities, less in more rural areas. That's just as
true in the UK or the US as it is in Italy...
>How many Gypsies, beggars and pickpockets are there wandering around at
>large in Corinaldo? I suspect the only criminal activity which takes place
>there involves dodgy accounting procedures.
I confess I had to look up this place on a map. It looks
fascinating; I'm a sucker for medieval walled cities - especially
where the walls are so remarkably intact!
Having said all the above, I suspect that this thread has passed
the limit of its usefulness. I think we might as well now
consider it closed.
Martin D. Pay
Oh, to Alan S - I guess we'll have to disagree about one thing,
when we take the Ashes back off you this summer... ^_-
<[email protected]> mangled uncounted electrons thus:
>"B Vaughan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
><< I'm sure the original poster was responding to those huge Rome scare
> postings made a few weeks ago, the ones that reported at least a dozen
> molestations experienced in the course of a 2-day visit to Rome.>>
>How can you be sure? Are you clairvoyant?
Y'know, you're bordering on objectionable, now...
>The original poster made a series of fatuous statements along the lines of
>"Golly Gee, I walked abroad on the mean streets of Rome and wasn't molested"
On a purely personal note, I take exception to 'fatuous'...
You're entitled to your opinion, though. I guess.
>If people persist in augmenting the crowds milling about in the hot-spots
>like The Spanish Steps, The Trevi Fountain, The Ponte di Paglia in Venice,
>outside the Duomo in Florence and The Termini Station in Rome but do not
>take normal, sensible precautions, then they deserve what they get.
This is getting well off-topic, but I can't let that go
unchallenged. No-one *deserves* to be mugged/robbed/assaulted,
whether or not they meet your standards of personal care.
You've passed 'bordering on objectionable' and become quite
obnoxious.
>There are plenty of bits of Italy where the level of crime is almost
>negligible.
Have I suggested that this isn't the case? Crime is a fact of
life; more in cities, less in more rural areas. That's just as
true in the UK or the US as it is in Italy...
>How many Gypsies, beggars and pickpockets are there wandering around at
>large in Corinaldo? I suspect the only criminal activity which takes place
>there involves dodgy accounting procedures.
I confess I had to look up this place on a map. It looks
fascinating; I'm a sucker for medieval walled cities - especially
where the walls are so remarkably intact!
Having said all the above, I suspect that this thread has passed
the limit of its usefulness. I think we might as well now
consider it closed.
Martin D. Pay
Oh, to Alan S - I guess we'll have to disagree about one thing,
when we take the Ashes back off you this summer... ^_-
Mar 21st 2005 | 8:27 am
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Thoughts on Rome...
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:07:44 +1100, Alan S <[email protected]>
mangled uncounted electrons thus:
>On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 14:38:54 -0000, "Ross Lyn" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>|
>|Maybe your right but it is the amazement shown on this NG that you can walk
>|about without being molested and set upon by thieves and bandits which
>|irritates.
>Hi Ross
>I take it you missed Viking's re-posted re-post of his re-post on the
>dangers of the Rome Termini district?
>Read this (try the whole thread:-):
>http://tinyurl.com/56y3o
>Then you'll understand what I suspect Martin was implicitly referring
>to.
>I took it as both a trip report and a subtle commentary on that post.
>Maybe I'm wrong, if so, Martin can correct me.
<grin> Not so much a 'subtle commentary', more a
counter-argument. If I'm going to take a poke at someone
personally, I prefer to do it overtly...
Martin D. Pay
We *still* enjoyed our trip, dammit!
mangled uncounted electrons thus:
>On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 14:38:54 -0000, "Ross Lyn" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>|
>|Maybe your right but it is the amazement shown on this NG that you can walk
>|about without being molested and set upon by thieves and bandits which
>|irritates.
>Hi Ross
>I take it you missed Viking's re-posted re-post of his re-post on the
>dangers of the Rome Termini district?
>Read this (try the whole thread:-):
>http://tinyurl.com/56y3o
>Then you'll understand what I suspect Martin was implicitly referring
>to.
>I took it as both a trip report and a subtle commentary on that post.
>Maybe I'm wrong, if so, Martin can correct me.
<grin> Not so much a 'subtle commentary', more a
counter-argument. If I'm going to take a poke at someone
personally, I prefer to do it overtly...
Martin D. Pay
We *still* enjoyed our trip, dammit!
Mar 21st 2005 | 8:27 am
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Thoughts on Rome...
On 20 Mar 2005 15:50:50 -0800, [email protected] mangled
uncounted electrons thus:
>I've stayed in the Termini area multiple times, and I think the dangers
>and unpleasantries are overstated. If you wear a money belt (which you
>should anywhere in Europe) to prevent pickpocketing, and you use common
>sense like not leaving your bags unattended in public places, then the
>chance of you having a problem is close to zero. People describe it as
>being like a war zone and it really isn't. The advantages to staying
>around Termini are that it gives you easy access to both train lines,
>it's walking distance from the ancient sites, and any necessary
>traveller services are easy accessible (Internet, laundry, travel
>agencies...)
Exactly. We were cautious without resorting to paranoia and had
no problems.
Mind you, I live 35 miles from London (UK!) and commute there to
work by train 5 days/week, and there are some parts of my own
capital city where I won't normally tread... :(
Martin D. Pay
If nothing else, the weather in Rome was much nicer than the
weather we left behind in the UK!
uncounted electrons thus:
>I've stayed in the Termini area multiple times, and I think the dangers
>and unpleasantries are overstated. If you wear a money belt (which you
>should anywhere in Europe) to prevent pickpocketing, and you use common
>sense like not leaving your bags unattended in public places, then the
>chance of you having a problem is close to zero. People describe it as
>being like a war zone and it really isn't. The advantages to staying
>around Termini are that it gives you easy access to both train lines,
>it's walking distance from the ancient sites, and any necessary
>traveller services are easy accessible (Internet, laundry, travel
>agencies...)
Exactly. We were cautious without resorting to paranoia and had
no problems.
Mind you, I live 35 miles from London (UK!) and commute there to
work by train 5 days/week, and there are some parts of my own
capital city where I won't normally tread... :(
Martin D. Pay
If nothing else, the weather in Rome was much nicer than the
weather we left behind in the UK!
Mar 21st 2005 | 8:27 am
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Thoughts on Rome...
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:41:25 +0100, B Vaughan<[email protected]>
mangled uncounted electrons thus:
>On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 14:38:54 -0000, "Ross Lyn" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>[Accusation of patronisation snipped by Ross Lyn]
>><< Are we reading the same post? I didn't notice that at all. IMO.>>
>>Maybe your right but it is the amazement shown on this NG that you can walk
>>about without being molested and set upon by thieves and bandits which
>>irritates.
>>The bit about
>><<We were able to walk to the station and back without
>> feeling at all unsafe, and without seeing any (obvious) gypsies
>> or other pickpockets... We also used the buses a couple of times,
>> and while they were crowded (understatement!) again we did not
>> feel unsafe...>>
>I'm sure the original poster was responding to those huge Rome scare
>postings made a few weeks ago, the ones that reported at least a dozen
>molestations experienced in the course of a 2-day visit to Rome.
Indeed. Those posts were quite alarming, as I'd never been to
Italy before. I simply felt that those posts deserved a
counter-point.
I didn't and don't disbelieve the original posts, but the poster
admitted his experience wasn't current; I merely wanted to give a
more recent viewpoint.
Martin D. Pay
I think it would take at least a month to take in all the
architectural treasures that Rome has to offer, let alone
anything else!
mangled uncounted electrons thus:
>On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 14:38:54 -0000, "Ross Lyn" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>[Accusation of patronisation snipped by Ross Lyn]
>><< Are we reading the same post? I didn't notice that at all. IMO.>>
>>Maybe your right but it is the amazement shown on this NG that you can walk
>>about without being molested and set upon by thieves and bandits which
>>irritates.
>>The bit about
>><<We were able to walk to the station and back without
>> feeling at all unsafe, and without seeing any (obvious) gypsies
>> or other pickpockets... We also used the buses a couple of times,
>> and while they were crowded (understatement!) again we did not
>> feel unsafe...>>
>I'm sure the original poster was responding to those huge Rome scare
>postings made a few weeks ago, the ones that reported at least a dozen
>molestations experienced in the course of a 2-day visit to Rome.
Indeed. Those posts were quite alarming, as I'd never been to
Italy before. I simply felt that those posts deserved a
counter-point.
I didn't and don't disbelieve the original posts, but the poster
admitted his experience wasn't current; I merely wanted to give a
more recent viewpoint.
Martin D. Pay
I think it would take at least a month to take in all the
architectural treasures that Rome has to offer, let alone
anything else!
