What are the best places or sites to see in Spain and Portugal.. We
have three weeks in May 05 and would like to see, Madrid toledo,
Seville, Granda... is it possiable to see Morocco, Lisbon and
Barcelona? Also what would be the best method of travel, bus, car,
train?

Joetino

Am 28 Oct 2004 19:03:16 -0700 schrieb Joetino:

    > What are the best places or sites to see in Spain and Portugal.. We
    > have three weeks in May 05 and would like to see, Madrid toledo,
    > Seville, Granda... is it possiable to see Morocco, Lisbon and
    > Barcelona?

If you want to see Morocco, there's a ferry going over to Tangier. Or (much
better) you book an organised tour (in Spian) by plane and go see
Marrakech.

Regards,

Frank

"Joetino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] om...
    > What are the best places or sites to see in Spain and Portugal.. We
    > have three weeks in May 05 and would like to see, Madrid toledo,
    > Seville, Granda... is it possiable to see Morocco, Lisbon and
    > Barcelona? Also what would be the best method of travel, bus, car,
    > train?
I would forget Morocco. You would only get to see Tangier, which is not at
all typical of Morocco, a fascinating country worth a trip in itself.

Portugal is a very interesting country and has much to see, in spite of its
small size. I consider Lisbon to be one of the most interesting cities in
Europe. You can take a night train from Madrid. You may also want to visit
Porto which is not too far from Lisbon.

From Lisbon you can do a day trip to Evora by bus if you leave early in the
morning. There is an abundance of Roman ruins and an aqueduct where people
have built their homes into the arches. There is also a bones chapel, made
entirely of human bones and skulls with the inscription "Our bones wait for
your bones."

In Portugal the buses are cheap and very fast. The advantage over trains is
that not all train stations are in the city centre. There is a night train
from Lisbon to Madrid or you can fly.

Madrid to Sevilla--either fly or take the AVE, the high-speed train. It's
best to travel from Seville to Granada by bus as the rail connections are
not the best. Toledo is a day trip from Madrid, as is Segovia. You might
also consider visiting Salamanca if time allows.

As for Barcelona, you might consider flying from Portugal or from Madrid,
depending on how you plan your trip. There is a train from Madrid, but no
high speed train yet as far as I know. Many people prefer Barcelona to
Madrid. It has a very different flavour and the revival of Catalan has been
very strong since the death of Franco.

In Spain be especially on the alert for pickpockets and bag snatchers.

Lana

    >What are the best places or sites to see in Spain and Portugal.. We
    >have three weeks in May 05 and would like to see, Madrid toledo,
    >Seville, Granda... is it possiable to see Morocco, Lisbon and
    >Barcelona? Also what would be the best method of travel, bus, car,
    >train?

Bus is by far cheapest, but train is much faster and more pleasant.
Don't underestimate the time involved in travelling by bus -
especially in the south of spain the road between two cities is rarely
a straight line. Don't rent a car unless you really plan on going off
the beaten track. You don't want to have a car in the major cities -
Seville has more smashed windshields than any city I've ever seen, and
parking in Madrid or Barcelona must be an absolute nightmare.

In three weeks, I'd recommend:

Madrid (4 including a day trip to Toledo), Seville (2), Cordoba (2),
Grenada (2), Valencia (2), Barcelona (5), San Sebastian (2), Bilbao
(1), Madrid.

You could see Portugal or Morocco, but if so you should cut out
Barcelona, San Sebastian, Bilbao, and maybe Valencia from the
itinerary above.

If you want to see Morocco, you should plan to spend at least a week
there, and you should consider flying into Casablanca or Marrakech.
Travelling overland from Seville or Grenada to Rabat or Fez will cost
almost as much as a flight, will take loads of time, and may force you
to waste time or even stay overnight in places that are of no interest
(e.g. Algeciras). A day trip to Tangier really isn't worth it - it's
an absolute dump, and is not representative of the rest of Morocco.

I would consider adding the Basque Country to your itinerary.

I was in the Basque Country of Spain in June and it is one of the best
places I have found in Europe. San Sebastian, in particular, is a
beautiful beach town and has the best tapas bars I know. I was also in
Pamplona (1 hour by bus from San Sebastian) and Bilbao (also 1 hour by
bus) to see the Guggenheim Museum. Bayonne and Biarritz, France, are a
half hour by train from San Sebastian and are also worth seeing. This
area is also a good time value because it is compact and you won't have
to spend a lot of time getting from one place to another.

Joetino wrote:

    > What are the best places or sites to see in Spain and Portugal.. We
    > have three weeks in May 05 and would like to see, Madrid toledo,
    > Seville, Granda... is it possiable to see Morocco, Lisbon and
    > Barcelona? Also what would be the best method of travel, bus, car,
    > train?
    >
    > Joetino

I frankly disagree with most things you say:
The highway network in the south of Spain is one of the most convenient in
the country, connecting the capital city Seville with Huelva and the
Portuguese border to the West in a fairly straight line, Granada and Málaga
to the East and South East in yet nearly straight lines and finally Cadiz
and the Strait of Gibraltar to the South in a rather straight line to the
South (don't miss the new highway connection from Jerez to Algeciras-La
Linea-Gibraltar... the scenery is simply marvellous).
On the other hand the rest of national roads inside Andalusia are quite
decent considering the vast mountain ranges running along most of the
region.
If you consider renting a car, you can certainly go off the beaten track. I
see hundreds of rental cars in Seville on a daily basis, most driven by
foreigners visiting the city after renting in the Costa del Sol or even
Seville itself. And most of them simply take basic precautions as I'd do if
I rented a car somewhere else in Europe (or even the rest of the world?): do
not leave valuables inside the car, especially if they're visible form the
outside!
Moreover, I'd like to say that parking in any big city in Europe must be an
'absolute nightmare'. What did you expect in Spain? parking just outside
Barcelona's Sagrada familia? Right in Madrid's Plaza Mayor? Maybe you
thought you could leave your car anywhere in any city's downtown area? We
all commute to our jobs and use publlic transport in order to avoid taking
the car into the city centre.

    > Bus is by far cheapest, but train is much faster and more pleasant.
    > Don't underestimate the time involved in travelling by bus -
    > especially in the south of spain the road between two cities is rarely
    > a straight line. Don't rent a car unless you really plan on going off
    > the beaten track. You don't want to have a car in the major cities -
    > Seville has more smashed windshields than any city I've ever seen, and
    > parking in Madrid or Barcelona must be an absolute nightmare.
    > In three weeks, I'd recommend:
    > Madrid (4 including a day trip to Toledo), Seville (2), Cordoba (2),
    > Grenada (2), Valencia (2), Barcelona (5), San Sebastian (2), Bilbao
    > (1), Madrid.
    > You could see Portugal or Morocco, but if so you should cut out
    > Barcelona, San Sebastian, Bilbao, and maybe Valencia from the
    > itinerary above.
    > If you want to see Morocco, you should plan to spend at least a week
    > there, and you should consider flying into Casablanca or Marrakech.
    > Travelling overland from Seville or Grenada to Rabat or Fez will cost
    > almost as much as a flight, will take loads of time, and may force you
    > to waste time or even stay overnight in places that are of no interest
    > (e.g. Algeciras). A day trip to Tangier really isn't worth it - it's
    > an absolute dump, and is not representative of the rest of Morocco.
    >

Travelling by car in Andalucia is a pleasure. I often motor from Malaga to
Cadiz and use the A381 road from Los Barrios (near Gibraltar) and Jerez de
la Frontera. Apart from a few kms., this road is virtually finished and it
is a great drive on new roads with 2 lanes. Through open country. I saw
several (perhaps 12) eagles soaring around on my last journey. The road
from Seville to the Algarve is easy and enjoyable. If you stay on the main
roads (Autovias - toll roads) you won't be disappointed and the tolls are
modest and worth it. The road from Seville to Granada is all 2 lane highway
and not toll road so this route is great ! Also don't forget that hiring a
car in Spain is cheap especially in Andalucia compared with other countries.
I hired a compact small car but upgraded to a medium sized car on my last
trip from Malaga and it cost all inclusive and no insurance deductible about
Euros 10 PER DAY ! That is cheap. It's possible to hire in one place then
drop off in another. But I believe hiring a car in Portugal and taking to
Spain is going to be much more costly.
Bus journies are not too bad either. There are many bus companies in Spain
each having some kind of concession area. There is a web site with some
journies already on but it's not totally reliable: http://www.movelia.es/
You may be lucky. However there are always good connections betwene major
cities/towns in Spain by bus. just ask for the route and you will find the
company ....
Trains are good especially the fast ones like AVE. But those are more
expensive. www.renfe.es
Sometimes an internal flight using www.iberia.es can be reasonably priced so
investigate the tariff online and you can also book using the ticketless
method with a CC. Someimes the ticket 'with restrictions' in other words not
transferable - can be cheap, especially the more unpopular times. There are
many flights each day between Madrid-Barcelona - a sort of shuttle. On
public holidays or fiestas they can be busy so it's a good idea to travel
outside these days. Look for public holidays anyway in Spain and you will
find some fun. For example in Jerez there will be the annual Horse Fair in
early May (not sure exact time) which is great. That reminds me- El Rocio
pilgrimage is in May next year. Always falls at Pentecost.(Whitsun) The
pilgrimage to a place in the middle of the Donana Park south west of
Seville. http://www.rocio.com/ But there will be other celebrations
depending on the place at this time.

Actually, I found parking in Madrid to be quite good. There was a large
underground garage just a couple of blocks from the major museums. For
tourists it did quite well.

FPdA wrote:

    > I frankly disagree with most things you say:
    > The highway network in the south of Spain is one of the most convenient in
    > the country, connecting the capital city Seville with Huelva and the
    > Portuguese border to the West in a fairly straight line, Granada and Málaga
    > to the East and South East in yet nearly straight lines and finally Cadiz
    > and the Strait of Gibraltar to the South in a rather straight line to the
    > South (don't miss the new highway connection from Jerez to Algeciras-La
    > Linea-Gibraltar... the scenery is simply marvellous).
    > On the other hand the rest of national roads inside Andalusia are quite
    > decent considering the vast mountain ranges running along most of the
    > region.
    > If you consider renting a car, you can certainly go off the beaten track. I
    > see hundreds of rental cars in Seville on a daily basis, most driven by
    > foreigners visiting the city after renting in the Costa del Sol or even
    > Seville itself. And most of them simply take basic precautions as I'd do if
    > I rented a car somewhere else in Europe (or even the rest of the world?): do
    > not leave valuables inside the car, especially if they're visible form the
    > outside!
    > Moreover, I'd like to say that parking in any big city in Europe must be an
    > 'absolute nightmare'. What did you expect in Spain? parking just outside
    > Barcelona's Sagrada familia? Right in Madrid's Plaza Mayor? Maybe you
    > thought you could leave your car anywhere in any city's downtown area? We
    > all commute to our jobs and use publlic transport in order to avoid taking
    > the car into the city centre.
    >
    >
    >>Bus is by far cheapest, but train is much faster and more pleasant.
    >>Don't underestimate the time involved in travelling by bus -
    >>especially in the south of spain the road between two cities is rarely
    >>a straight line. Don't rent a car unless you really plan on going off
    >>the beaten track. You don't want to have a car in the major cities -
    >>Seville has more smashed windshields than any city I've ever seen, and
    >>parking in Madrid or Barcelona must be an absolute nightmare.
    >>In three weeks, I'd recommend:
    >>Madrid (4 including a day trip to Toledo), Seville (2), Cordoba (2),
    >>Grenada (2), Valencia (2), Barcelona (5), San Sebastian (2), Bilbao
    >>(1), Madrid.
    >>You could see Portugal or Morocco, but if so you should cut out
    >>Barcelona, San Sebastian, Bilbao, and maybe Valencia from the
    >>itinerary above.
    >>If you want to see Morocco, you should plan to spend at least a week
    >>there, and you should consider flying into Casablanca or Marrakech.
    >>Travelling overland from Seville or Grenada to Rabat or Fez will cost
    >>almost as much as a flight, will take loads of time, and may force you
    >>to waste time or even stay overnight in places that are of no interest
    >>(e.g. Algeciras). A day trip to Tangier really isn't worth it - it's
    >>an absolute dump, and is not representative of the rest of Morocco.
    >
    >
    >
    >

Well, there's no way can you'll 'see' Spain (Madrid, Toledo, Sevilla,
Granada, Barcelona), Portugal/Lisboa & Morocco in three weeks unless
'seeing' windows of buses, trains, planes & autos is what you like to
see. Although transportation links are good, that's way too much
territory; you'll spend more time seeing windows that actually being
anywhere. However, you could be more efficient by flying into Lisboa &
leaving from Barcelona, or vice versa. And although trains are a bit
more comfortable than buses, there are far more daily bus departures
than train departures. Of course, having a car is great...you can go
where you want when you want. However, three weeks of driving will be
pretty tiring, and he absolutely wont' want to have a car in most of
these cities since it's easily to get around on public transport for
the most part.

The best way to travel is slowly, taking time to spend some time in
each place one visits.