We will be staying at an inn called "Abbazia di Spineto" for 5 days. It is "in the
south of "Siena's district," according to our packager's brochure.

Does anyone have any info about this particular inn? Especially proximity to public
transportation.

Also, I would appreciate any specific recommendations as to sights to see (and best
way to get there) in the area. Of the 5 days we will be there, there will be a "wine
tour," a "tour through the Tuscan countryside," and a tour of Siena. What else should
we try to see? We like nature, scenery, historical sites, etc. (We will be stopping
by cruise ship early in Nov. at Livorno, so I expect we will go to Florence then.)

Duncan Craig wrote:

    > We will be staying at an inn called "Abbazia di Spineto" for 5 days. It is "in the
    > south of "Siena's district," according to our packager's brochure.
    >
    > Does anyone have any info about this particular inn? Especially proximity to public
    > transportation.

If this is what I'm thinking of, Abbazia di Spineto is a large area of individual
rental homes/villas with an Abbey as a "main house." Each house will have its own
facilities including a pool, (though I doubt you'll be using it in November) but
you'd better have a car for transportation. If this is where you're staying, you're
going to need transportation just to get from your house to the Abbey.

Try researching the area through Google.

Arlene

    >
    >
    > Also, I would appreciate any specific recommendations as to sights to see (and best
    > way to get there) in the area. Of the 5 days we will be there, there will be a
    > "wine tour," a "tour through the Tuscan countryside," and a tour of Siena. What
    > else should we try to see? We like nature, scenery, historical sites, etc. (We will
    > be stopping by cruise ship early in Nov. at Livorno, so I expect we will go to
    > Florence then.)

"Duncan Craig" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

. (We will be stopping by
    > cruise ship early in Nov. at Livorno, so I expect we will go to Florence then.)
    >
    >

I would rethink this and go while you have plenty of time. Florence in the evening is
beautiful especially when seen from the hills above. (there is a park with
reproductions of Michaelangelo statues) from the cruise ship I would try for Pisa or
Lucca as they are closer to Livorno and further from your place in Tuscany.

Tuscany is quite rural and most people there rely on cars. The Italian way of doing things is very laid back and I wouldn't reply on public transport.

"Duncan Craig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > We will be staying at an inn called "Abbazia di Spineto" for 5 days. It is "in the
    > south of "Siena's district," according to our packager's brochure.
    >
    > Does anyone have any info about this particular inn? Especially proximity
to
    > public transportation.
    >
    > Also, I would appreciate any specific recommendations as to sights to see (and best
    > way to get there) in the area. Of the 5 days we will be there, there will be a
    > "wine tour," a "tour through the Tuscan countryside," and
a
    > tour of Siena. What else should we try to see? We like nature, scenery, historical
    > sites, etc. (We will be stopping by cruise ship early in Nov.
at
    > Livorno, so I expect we will go to Florence then.)
    >
    >
If you get a chance, eat at Certosa di Maggiano one evening. Its just outside of
Siena and a wonderful hotel and restaurant. I've stayed there a number of times and
really enjoyed it. The food in the restaurant is very good. Here is a link to their
property. http://www.relaischateaux.com/site/u...RcCode=certosa Steve

Hi Duncan

"Steve In NorCal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Duncan Craig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > We will be staying at an inn called "Abbazia di Spineto" for 5 days. It
is
    > > "in the south of "Siena's district," according to our packager's
brochure.
    > >
    > > Does anyone have any info about this particular inn? Especially
proximity
    > to
    > > public transportation.
    > >
    > > Also, I would appreciate any specific recommendations as to sights to
see
    > > (and best way to get there) in the area. Of the 5 days we will be there, there
    > > will be a "wine tour," a "tour through the Tuscan countryside,"
and
    > a
    > > tour of Siena. What else should we try to see? We like nature, scenery,
    > > historical sites, etc. (We will be stopping by cruise ship early in Nov.
    > at
    > > Livorno, so I expect we will go to Florence then.)
    > >
    > >
    > If you get a chance, eat at Certosa di Maggiano one evening. Its just outside of
    > Siena and a wonderful hotel and restaurant. I've stayed there
a
    > number of times and really enjoyed it. The food in the restaurant is very good.
    > Here is a link to their property.
    > http://www.relaischateaux.com/site/u...RcCode=certosa Steve

Try posting on rec.travel.europe and you should be overwhelmed with replies.

PMM

"j coulter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Duncan Craig" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    >
    > . (We will be stopping by
    > > cruise ship early in Nov. at Livorno, so I expect we will go to Florence then.)
    > >
    > >
    >
    > I would rethink this and go while you have plenty of time. Florence in the evening
    > is beautiful especially when seen from the hills above. (there is
a
    > park with reproductions of Michaelangelo statues) from the cruise ship I would try
    > for Pisa or Lucca as they are closer to Livorno and further from your place in
    > Tuscany.
Thanks. We (the younger couple) WILL be back in Italy for a comprehensive land tour,
but this trip is a compromise on something that appealed to all 4 persons - last
chance to do a cruise with my mother before she quits travelling. So we're booked and
deposited.

j coulter <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Duncan Craig" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    >
    > . (We will be stopping by
    > > cruise ship early in Nov. at Livorno, so I expect we will go to Florence then.)
    > >
    > >
    >
    > I would rethink this and go while you have plenty of time. Florence in the evening
    > is beautiful especially when seen from the hills above. (there is
a
    > park with reproductions of Michaelangelo statues) from the cruise ship I would try
    > for Pisa or Lucca as they are closer to Livorno and further from your place in
    > Tuscany.

I would agree with this suggestion. The last time I was in Florence it was inundated
with groups from two large cruise ships and walking in the pedestrian zone between
the Duomo and the Pza. della Signoria was almost impossible. I've also heard that
it's difficult to travel independently between the ship and Florence using public
transportation within the time allocated for a port call. GG

Duncan Craig <[email protected]> wrote in message
[email protected]...

    > Also, I would appreciate any specific recommendations as to sights to see (and best
    > way to get there) in the area. Of the 5 days we will be there, there will be a
    > "wine tour," a "tour through the Tuscan countryside," and
a
    > tour of Siena. What else should we try to see? We like nature, scenery, historical
    > sites, etc. (We will be stopping by cruise ship early in Nov.
at
    > Livorno, so I expect we will go to Florence then.)

As for arts and historical sites near Siena you *really* can't miss:
- north of Siena: San Gimignano, Volterra, Monteriggioni;
- south of Siena: Abbazia di Sant'Antimo, Montalcino, Pienza and, if you like
frescos, Abbazia di Monte Oliveto. Not far from these sites, there's plenty of
other things to see, both north and south of Siena.

Check what of the above mentioned sites are already included in your pre-arranged
tours (e.g. Montalcino is very likely to be included in the "wine tour") and what are
not. I highly recommend you visit all of them (plus, outside the Siena district, the
magnificent Lucca and the nearly-as-magnificent Arezzo)!

As for nature, all the Tuscan countryside is wonderful and very relaxing but there's
not, as far as I know, a site far more scenic than the others. If you like a wilder
landscape you should head south and visit the so-called Maremma (particularly
noticeable the area of Pitigliano/Sorano/Sovana, a real "must see"), but I wonder if
you have time enough.

Edoardo

On Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:26:38 -0400, "Duncan Craig" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >We will be staying at an inn called "Abbazia di Spineto" for 5 days. It is "in the
    >south of "Siena's district," according to our packager's brochure.
    >
    >Does anyone have any info about this particular inn? Especially proximity to public
    >transportation.
    >
    >Also, I would appreciate any specific recommendations as to sights to see (and best
    >way to get there) in the area. Of the 5 days we will be there, there will be a
    >"wine tour," a "tour through the Tuscan countryside," and a tour of Siena. What
    >else should we try to see? We like nature, scenery, historical sites, etc. (We will
    >be stopping by cruise ship early in Nov. at Livorno, so I expect we will go to
    >Florence then.)
    >

Here is a cut-and-paste of an article I did for epinions.com six months ago:

Pros: Car friendly, centrally located in Tuscany, nice ambiance Cons: None The Bottom
Line: A perfect base of operations for a fabulous car tour of Tuscany and Umbria.
Recommended: Yes

I don't have time to do a full review, but I wanted to make several major points
about Siena for experienced travelers who want to see Tuscany.

Siena is, first, an interesting tourist city in its own right. It was a rival of
Florence during the Renaissance and although it was eventually eclipsed by the
powerful Medicis, it has a fine and unique Duomo, and Duomo museum, and several other
nice historical attractions.

The defining feature of Siena is the Campo, a central piazza shaped like a half moon,
around which the Palio is run twice a year. There are 17 ancient "contrade" or
neighborhood associations, of which 10 compete in the Palio. The Palio is a bareback
horse race that is run around the periphery of the Campo twice every summer (they
bring in dirt to cover the cobblestones) and it is, well, rather rough-and-ready
(i.e. violent) for some tastes. It is a real slice of Renaissance life, with a major
pageant and procession. Each of the 10 competing contrade enters a horse wearing the
contrada's standard (porcupine, giraffe, etc.). I would recommend it for the young or
vigorous, as it is VERY hot and crowded. Although it is crammed with tourists, it is
not primarily a tourist event -- it is taken fairly seriously by the locals.

Sorry, I just got off on a tangent. The point of this review is to recommend Siena as
an ideal place to use as a center of operations for a driving tour of Tuscany. If
there is a place in the world you must have a car, it is Tuscany. Siena is the
easiest place to park in Italy. There is a huge autopark centrally located, although
it closes Wednesday nights and Thursday mornings for a giant market. So make other
plans for that night. Also, getting in and out of Siena is quite easy.

Please understand that "easy" means easy in terms of Italy. Siena is not Rome or
Milan for drivers (i.e. not a sweatdrenched utter nightmare) but it is not Peoria,
either. Siena is a medieval city with many tiny winding streets, confusing one-way
streets, pedestrianized streets that seem to be the only route to your hotel, etc.
But it is small enough that you can park and walk just about anywhere. Also realize
that this is hill country -- Siena is build on three hills and the streets can be
steep. Watching the old ladies walk around town, you can understand why Italians are
not as fat as Americans.

Siena is small enough to navigate, but large enough to have a very distinctive
character and its own industries. You can buy unique and nice locally manufactured
goods (stationery, ties, several others) that are not sold elsewhere. If you
adventure out to a restaurant, the food is EXCELLENT and very reasonable.

After you see Siena itself, you can get in your car and take a delightful day trip
to any point in Tuscany. Almost every road within 60 km of Siena is a tourist
attraction in and of itself. Even the autostrada is a Michelin green road! (I would
strongly suggest a Michelin map of Italy, which designates particularly scenic
routes with a green line.) Favorites would include San Gimignano, Montepulciano,
Montalcino (home of Brunelo wines), Lucca, Pisa, Cortona, Arezzo, Pienza TEST well,
on and on, you will need to get a guide. Cortona, with its fascinating little
Etruscan museum, and Montepulciano, a wine center, are two of my personal favorites
for larger hill towns. (Montalcino has the best wine in Italy though, in my opinion,
one of the very few places where it is actually worth shipping wine home. It is tiny
and very easy to navigate.) You can easily reach Assisi or Orvieto if you want,
which I think are technically in Umbria. This is one of the most fabulous vacations
you could possibly take for pretty and quaint towns, scenic countryside, great food,
and late medieval culture.

Do NOT eat at slick-looking places. I remember even today a $2 tunafish sandwich I
got from a street walkup lunch counter in Montalcino -- folded over with tomatoes and
capers, then grilled. It was just unbelievably good, one of those things where you
take a bite, tell yourself "I can't believe this", take another bite, repeat until
gone. I would also recommend "pizza romano", a hot sandwich, as a cheap luncheon
gourmet treat. Yummy!

For supper, ask around and walk to a small restaurant. You can get a fantastic supper
anywhere in Tuscany (including Siena) for less than $20 if you work at it a little.
For a light dessert (portions are usually, er, filling) try the traditional vino
santo (sweet wine, a little like sherry) and almond or chocolate biscotti, which you
dunk in the wine.

I would advise that you not plan too tightly. As wonderful as Pisa and San
Gimignano may be, give yourself some slack to detour to that little hill town you
see in the distance.

You will want to learn a few words of Italian, especially driving terms and road
signs, to do this. Also I would go in April-May or September-October and avoid the
worst part of the tourist crush, and the heat. Type of Travel: Long-Distance Vacation
Length of Visit: Week-long or more Cost of Trip: Moderate (less than $200/day) Size
of Your Group: Couple Best Suited For: Couples

_____________

A few more words:

Why would anyone pay for a "tour of Siena"? It would be like paying extra to take a
"tour of Disneyland".

You MUST rent a car, even if it means paying a driver for a day. But a little study
about driving in Italy and a good road map is really all you need. This is not like
driving in Rome. You can even drive into Firenze, since there is a massive car park
in the north of the city, and a short cab ride or long walk to the old city. You
might have a frustrating hour or so if you drive into Siena or especially Firenze,
but it will be well worth it in overall terms.

Abbazia di Spineto is a delightful place, but it is in the middle of nowhere. If you
have a car, this is a good thing, because the area is crawling with the most charming
drives you can imagine. Montepulciano -- one of my favorite hill towns -- is just up
the road and it is a lovely, easy drive. This is a good wine center, too, if you like
Chianti Classico. Cortona, another beauty, is only a little farther but the drive is
not quite so nice, as you have to pass through an industrial town at the foot of the
hill, with typical impossible Italian directions.

You will want to buy a Michelin #988 map. It has the most scenic roads outlined in
green and is nearly foolproof. I would also insist that you buy good maps of Firenze
and Siena BEFORE you go. There are a lot of good ones, such as the Streetwise series.

http://www.tamassee.com/cgi-bin/Soft...ore+ohjj3712+-
bookcode=TMIT3140

Here is a huge selection. You might want to buy one of the Tuscano regional maps too,
although the Michelin is fine (it is, however, large and a bit unwieldy.)

http://www.tamassee.com/cgi-bin/Soft...hjj3712+Activ-
ity1=Travel&State=IT&itemtype=map&searchq=TMIT3133

Speaking of wines, the Montepulciano to Montalcino drive is wonderful, and Montalcino
(a fairly pretty hill town itself) is the home of IMHO Italy's greatest wine,
Brunelo. You can save a little money (not really that much when you consider the
hassle and cost of getting it home), but you can get about 100 wonderful wines that
you simply can't buy in the US.

If it were I, I would go to Firenze on this vacation, and go to Pisa on the
cruise stop.

--
Mason Barge

"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."

-- Abraham Lincoln

On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:19:59 -0400, Mason Barge <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Here is a cut-and-paste of an article I did for epinions.com six months ago:
    >
    >Pros: Car friendly, centrally located in Tuscany, nice ambiance Cons: None The
    >Bottom Line: A perfect base of operations for a fabulous car tour of Tuscany and
    >Umbria. Recommended: Yes

[snip]

Very well-written, and you make a lot of good points. However, I have some responses:

(1) There _is not_ what I'd call "centrally-located" parking in Siena, except in the
very unlikely event that things have changed drastically in that respect since
1998. The closest-in parking is close to San Domenico. Now, this abuts the Centro
Storico, but it's not exactly right by the Piazza del Campo; I think it must be
about a 1 1/2-km walk from that parcheggio to the Campo.

(2) Siena inside the walls is _not_ "car-friendly." People who are not residents of
Siena are not allowed to drive through the medieval streets of the Centro Storico
except to drop off their stuff at the hotel.
(3) One _does not_ need a car to use Siena as a base from which to take day trips.
There are great places accessible by public transportation (bus and train).

So I liked your article, but why do you claim a car is obligatory in Siena, of
all places?

Best,

Michael

To reply by email, please take out the TRASH (so to speak). Personal messages
only, please!

"Mason Barge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Siena is the easiest place to park in Italy. There is a huge autopark
centrally
    > located, although it closes Wednesday nights and Thursday mornings for a
giant
    > market. So make other plans for that night. Also, getting in and out of
Siena is
    > quite easy.

Very well written but I do have a MAJOR correction. The parking (paid by the way)
that you write about is closed Tuesday evening and Wednesday until late afternoon as
this is where the weekly market is held every Wednesday (NOT Thursday). There are
other areas to park. Just look for the big P sign when getting off the highway.

On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:35:49 +0200, "Cristina" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Mason Barge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> Siena is the easiest place to park in Italy. There is a huge autopark
    >centrally
    >> located, although it closes Wednesday nights and Thursday mornings for a
    >giant
    >> market. So make other plans for that night. Also, getting in and out of
    >Siena is
    >> quite easy.
    >
    >Very well written but I do have a MAJOR correction. The parking (paid by the way)
    >that you write about is closed Tuesday evening and Wednesday until late afternoon as
    >this is where the weekly market is held every Wednesday (NOT Thursday). There are
    >other areas to park. Just look for the big P sign when getting off the highway.

Yes, and parking gets very tight on Tuesday night.
--
Mason Barge

"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."

-- Abraham Lincoln

On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 04:05:53 GMT, [email protected] (Pan) wrote:

    >On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:19:59 -0400, Mason Barge <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Here is a cut-and-paste of an article I did for epinions.com six months ago:
    >>
    >>Pros: Car friendly, centrally located in Tuscany, nice ambiance Cons: None The
    >>Bottom Line: A perfect base of operations for a fabulous car tour of Tuscany and
    >>Umbria. Recommended: Yes
    >
    >[snip]
    >
    >Very well-written, and you make a lot of good points. However, I have some
    >responses:
    >
    >(1) There _is not_ what I'd call "centrally-located" parking in Siena, except in the
    > very unlikely event that things have changed drastically in that respect since
    > 1998. The closest-in parking is close to San Domenico. Now, this abuts the
    > Centro Storico, but it's not exactly right by the Piazza del Campo; I think it
    > must be about a 1 1/2-km walk from that parcheggio to the Campo.

If you want to quibble with the term "centrally located" then no, they have not built
a giant parking deck behind the Duomo. However, you can actually park on the street
with a modicum of luck.

This is easy, inexpensive parking directly adjacent to the old city, in the center of
Siena. Give me a break, it's the car-friendliest city in Italy.

How close in do you want major inexpensive parking in an Italian City? The charming
old city starts about 100 yards from the car park. Drive to your hotel, check in
and unload luggage, park the car, and walk around the city. This is the general
plan in any Mediterranean driving tour. I mean, the same goes for Rome which is
about 50 times bigger. Check in, park the car, and walk/taxi/bus/metro to get to
locations. Do you park your car in say Paris and then take it out every day to
drive arond the city?

    >(2) Siena inside the walls is _not_ "car-friendly." People who are not residents of
    > Siena are not allowed to drive through the medieval streets of the Centro
    > Storico except to drop off their stuff at the hotel.

You are quibbling with terminology. I have no intention of driving around the old
city. I would park my car except to drive out for day trips.

    >(3) One _does not_ need a car to use Siena as a base from which to take day trips.
    > There are great places accessible by public transportation (bus and train).

If that's what you want to do, feel free. I would not do it except as a last resort,
i.e. if nobody in my party could drive.

    >So I liked your article, but why do you claim a car is obligatory in Siena, of
    >all places?

Look, I'm not going to argue. I don't expect to drive around Siena itself. The point
is to be able to get in and out of the city and go where you want to, when you want
to, stopping whenever you like for as long as you like.

My opinion is that the best way to see Tuscany is to rent a car and make Siena your
base of operations. Feel free to write a conflicting opinion.

    >Best,
    >
    >Michael
    >
    >To reply by email, please take out the TRASH (so to speak). Personal messages
    >only, please!

--
Mason Barge

"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."

-- Abraham Lincoln

"Mason Barge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 04:05:53 GMT, [email protected] (Pan) wrote:
    >
    > >On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:19:59 -0400, Mason Barge <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>Here is a cut-and-paste of an article I did for epinions.com six months
ago:
    > >>
    > >>Pros: Car friendly, centrally located in Tuscany, nice ambiance Cons: None The
    > >>Bottom Line: A perfect base of operations for a fabulous car tour of
Tuscany
    > >>and Umbria. Recommended: Yes
    > >
    > >[snip]
    > >
    > >Very well-written, and you make a lot of good points. However, I have some
    > >responses:
    > >
    > >(1) There _is not_ what I'd call "centrally-located" parking in Siena, except in
    > > the very unlikely event that things have changed drastically in that respect
    > > since 1998. The closest-in parking is close to San Domenico. Now, this abuts
    > > the Centro Storico, but it's not exactly right by the Piazza del Campo; I
    > > think it must be about a 1 1/2-km walk from that parcheggio to the Campo.
    >
    > If you want to quibble with the term "centrally located" then no, they
have not
    > built a giant parking deck behind the Duomo. However, you can actually
park on
    > the street with a modicum of luck.

That is very true although not always in a legal spot. I have seen many tourists get
towed because they did not know what was legal and what was not. Also, below and
behind the Duomo there is a large parking lot. Called Santa Caterina. Much easier to
get in and out of since you never have to drive all the way to the end of the city
that you are talking about.
    >
    > This is easy, inexpensive parking directly adjacent to the old city, in
the
    > center of Siena. Give me a break, it's the car-friendliest city in Italy.

I live here (siena) and it is far from being a car friendly town. Yes, it is easy to
hop on the tangenziale to get to the other major areas in Tuscany but it can be very
confusing and in the Spring, Summer and Autumn, the traffic is awful. Many times I
park down near the tangenziale and take the mini bus up to the city as do many of
the Senese.

    > >(2) Siena inside the walls is _not_ "car-friendly." People who are not residents
    > > of Siena are not allowed to drive through the medieval streets of the Centro
    > > Storico except to drop off their stuff at the hotel.
    >
    > You are quibbling with terminology. I have no intention of driving around
the
    > old city. I would park my car except to drive out for day trips.

I don't think he is quibbling at all. Instead he is making a very important point for
those who do not know. I have seen enough tourists drive into the city and get stuck.
People need to know that they cannot drive inside the walls without a permit. If they
are staying at a hotel they may be allowed to drive in to drop off the luggage but
they must follow the correct route that the hotel gives them. They cannot just drive
around until they find a place.
    >
    > >(3) One _does not_ need a car to use Siena as a base from which to take day trips.
    > > There are great places accessible by public transportation (bus and train).
    >
    > If that's what you want to do, feel free. I would not do it except as a
last
    > resort, i.e. if nobody in my party could drive.
    >
    > >So I liked your article, but why do you claim a car is obligatory in Siena, of all
    > >places?
    >
    > Look, I'm not going to argue. I don't expect to drive around Siena
itself. The
    > point is to be able to get in and out of the city and go where you want
to, when
    > you want to, stopping whenever you like for as long as you like.
    >
    > My opinion is that the best way to see Tuscany is to rent a car and make
Siena
    > your base of operations. Feel free to write a conflicting opinion.

You are correct. Seeing Tuscany is best in a car. Just make sure you learn what
certain road signs mean and how to deal with roundabouts (they are not all the same
by the way).