Scotsmen are not outdoor people
Mar 13th 2007, 12:05 pm
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
>>> How come anyone can die in circumstances like that?
>> the weather on the cairngorm plateau in Scotland is often as bad as
>> you get anywhere, most scots would probably know that. Unfortunatly
>> real people dont conform to stereotypes.
> No such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing.
In this case the weather seems to have been a lot worse than anybody
could have predicted. The people who got into trouble were adequately
prepared by any normal standard.
Carrying too much kit can kill you, too.
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk =============Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
>> the weather on the cairngorm plateau in Scotland is often as bad as
>> you get anywhere, most scots would probably know that. Unfortunatly
>> real people dont conform to stereotypes.
> No such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing.
In this case the weather seems to have been a lot worse than anybody
could have predicted. The people who got into trouble were adequately
prepared by any normal standard.
Carrying too much kit can kill you, too.
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk =============Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Mar 13th 2007, 2:05 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:15:19 +0000, The Reid <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:27:46 -0800, VainGlorious
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Their Norwegian friends easily out-distanced them, leaving the cold,
>>unprepared Scotsmen behind. Some blame can perhaps be leveled at the
>>Norwegians for not looking after their pudgy pals, but these guys
>>screwed themselves.
>>
>>I've climbed alpine over 3000 meters and I know the rules.
>
>like keep together!
That's a good rule indeed.
Another good rule is: don't hike on top of each other! If you or
someone in your party is going to slip on a rock and fall backward,
it's worse when they take one or two fellow hikers down the hill with
them.
In most cases, people find their equilibrium in a group. I like to
push and go fast sometimes, other times I hang back. But I have never
- ever - left anyone in my party behind. That's just simply not done.
Those Norwegian guys were either not really traveling with the Scots,
or those Norwegian guys were assholes.
Or maybe....just maybe....
- TR
- waiting for the MURDER CHARGES FILED headline in the Sun.
wrote:
>On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:27:46 -0800, VainGlorious
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Their Norwegian friends easily out-distanced them, leaving the cold,
>>unprepared Scotsmen behind. Some blame can perhaps be leveled at the
>>Norwegians for not looking after their pudgy pals, but these guys
>>screwed themselves.
>>
>>I've climbed alpine over 3000 meters and I know the rules.
>
>like keep together!
That's a good rule indeed.
Another good rule is: don't hike on top of each other! If you or
someone in your party is going to slip on a rock and fall backward,
it's worse when they take one or two fellow hikers down the hill with
them.
In most cases, people find their equilibrium in a group. I like to
push and go fast sometimes, other times I hang back. But I have never
- ever - left anyone in my party behind. That's just simply not done.
Those Norwegian guys were either not really traveling with the Scots,
or those Norwegian guys were assholes.
Or maybe....just maybe....
- TR
- waiting for the MURDER CHARGES FILED headline in the Sun.
Mar 13th 2007, 2:47 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
Markku Gr�nroos wrote:
>
> > Or an historian. Look at the list of explorers who mapped Canada and set
> > up
> > trading posts, built railways etc. They were mostly Scots.
>
> In 1980's when I was strolling in Hyde Park I saw this one couple in a small
> rowing boat in the Serpentine pond. First time in my life I met a man who
> didn't know how to row a boat. It was most amusing scene.
Different people have different talents. I spent a summer working at a
canoe tripping camp. We ran into people way out in the bush that were
amazingly incompetent. Some carried loaded canoes across portages. Some
could not set up a tend. Most of them didn't know how to paddle properly.
You want to see stupid..... Three guys went snowmobiling last week on a
frozen lake not too far from year. Two of them were cops (off duty). One of
the cops had a radar gun to clock his speed demon buddy. The other two
collided at a combined speed of about 200 kph and were killed. You would
think that having access to a radar gun might suggest that they were safety
conscious.
>
> > Or an historian. Look at the list of explorers who mapped Canada and set
> > up
> > trading posts, built railways etc. They were mostly Scots.
>
> In 1980's when I was strolling in Hyde Park I saw this one couple in a small
> rowing boat in the Serpentine pond. First time in my life I met a man who
> didn't know how to row a boat. It was most amusing scene.
Different people have different talents. I spent a summer working at a
canoe tripping camp. We ran into people way out in the bush that were
amazingly incompetent. Some carried loaded canoes across portages. Some
could not set up a tend. Most of them didn't know how to paddle properly.
You want to see stupid..... Three guys went snowmobiling last week on a
frozen lake not too far from year. Two of them were cops (off duty). One of
the cops had a radar gun to clock his speed demon buddy. The other two
collided at a combined speed of about 200 kph and were killed. You would
think that having access to a radar gun might suggest that they were safety
conscious.
Mar 13th 2007, 8:33 pm
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:43:15 -0800, VainGlorious
<[email protected]> wrote:
>>like keep together!
>
>That's a good rule indeed.
>
>Another good rule is: don't hike on top of each other! If you or
>someone in your party is going to slip on a rock and fall backward,
>it's worse when they take one or two fellow hikers down the hill with
>them.
on the other hand if theres loose rock dont be far enough apart for
dislodged ones to speed up!
My pet safety hate is people who dont cover thier axe point when
stowed.
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>>like keep together!
>
>That's a good rule indeed.
>
>Another good rule is: don't hike on top of each other! If you or
>someone in your party is going to slip on a rock and fall backward,
>it's worse when they take one or two fellow hikers down the hill with
>them.
on the other hand if theres loose rock dont be far enough apart for
dislodged ones to speed up!
My pet safety hate is people who dont cover thier axe point when
stowed.
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Mar 13th 2007, 10:56 pm
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
Make credence recognised that on Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:05:01 +0000, Jack
Campin - bogus address <[email protected]> has scripted:
Check out:
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id%4169
>In this case the weather seems to have been a lot worse than anybody
>could have predicted.
"The lightly clothed Scots were caught in bad weather and apparently
did not try to dig a shelter for themselves on the plateau, renowned
for its quickly changing weather."
>The people who got into trouble were adequately
>prepared by any normal standard.
"They did not have good clothes for going in the mountains in Norway
at this time of year," Veka said. "On Hardangervidda there can be
sunshine and then a storm again in a half an hour."
They were poorly prepared, and obviously inexperienced.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Campin - bogus address <[email protected]> has scripted:
Check out:
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id%4169
>In this case the weather seems to have been a lot worse than anybody
>could have predicted.
"The lightly clothed Scots were caught in bad weather and apparently
did not try to dig a shelter for themselves on the plateau, renowned
for its quickly changing weather."
>The people who got into trouble were adequately
>prepared by any normal standard.
"They did not have good clothes for going in the mountains in Norway
at this time of year," Veka said. "On Hardangervidda there can be
sunshine and then a storm again in a half an hour."
They were poorly prepared, and obviously inexperienced.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Mar 13th 2007, 10:59 pm
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
On 14 mrt, 11:56, Deeply Filled Mortician
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> Make credence recognised that on Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:05:01 +0000, Jack
> Campin - bogus address <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
> Check out:http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id%4169
>
> >In this case the weather seems to have been a lot worse than anybody
> >could have predicted.
>
> "The lightly clothed Scots were caught in bad weather and apparently
> did not try to dig a shelter for themselves on the plateau, renowned
> for its quickly changing weather."
>
> >The people who got into trouble were adequately
> >prepared by any normal standard.
>
> "They did not have good clothes for going in the mountains in Norway
> at this time of year," Veka said. "On Hardangervidda there can be
> sunshine and then a storm again in a half an hour."
>
> They were poorly prepared, and obviously inexperienced.
Didn't one of the reports say they didn't even have a spade?
B;
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> Make credence recognised that on Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:05:01 +0000, Jack
> Campin - bogus address <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
> Check out:http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id%4169
>
> >In this case the weather seems to have been a lot worse than anybody
> >could have predicted.
>
> "The lightly clothed Scots were caught in bad weather and apparently
> did not try to dig a shelter for themselves on the plateau, renowned
> for its quickly changing weather."
>
> >The people who got into trouble were adequately
> >prepared by any normal standard.
>
> "They did not have good clothes for going in the mountains in Norway
> at this time of year," Veka said. "On Hardangervidda there can be
> sunshine and then a storm again in a half an hour."
>
> They were poorly prepared, and obviously inexperienced.
Didn't one of the reports say they didn't even have a spade?
B;
Mar 14th 2007, 12:02 am
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:56:26 +0100, Deeply Filled Mortician
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>"On Hardangervidda there can be
>sunshine and then a storm again in a half an hour."
just like the cairngorms.
>They were poorly prepared, and obviously inexperienced.
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>"On Hardangervidda there can be
>sunshine and then a storm again in a half an hour."
just like the cairngorms.
>They were poorly prepared, and obviously inexperienced.
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Mar 14th 2007, 12:07 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
Make credence recognised that on 14 Mar 2007 03:59:39 -0700,
[email protected] has scripted:
>On 14 mrt, 11:56, Deeply Filled Mortician
><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>> Make credence recognised that on Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:05:01 +0000, Jack
>> Campin - bogus address <[email protected]> has scripted:
>>
>> Check out:http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id%4169
>>
>> >In this case the weather seems to have been a lot worse than anybody
>> >could have predicted.
>>
>> "The lightly clothed Scots were caught in bad weather and apparently
>> did not try to dig a shelter for themselves on the plateau, renowned
>> for its quickly changing weather."
>>
>> >The people who got into trouble were adequately
>> >prepared by any normal standard.
>>
>> "They did not have good clothes for going in the mountains in Norway
>> at this time of year," Veka said. "On Hardangervidda there can be
>> sunshine and then a storm again in a half an hour."
>>
>> They were poorly prepared, and obviously inexperienced.
>
>Didn't one of the reports say they didn't even have a spade?
Nor a sat phone.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
[email protected] has scripted:
>On 14 mrt, 11:56, Deeply Filled Mortician
><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>> Make credence recognised that on Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:05:01 +0000, Jack
>> Campin - bogus address <[email protected]> has scripted:
>>
>> Check out:http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id%4169
>>
>> >In this case the weather seems to have been a lot worse than anybody
>> >could have predicted.
>>
>> "The lightly clothed Scots were caught in bad weather and apparently
>> did not try to dig a shelter for themselves on the plateau, renowned
>> for its quickly changing weather."
>>
>> >The people who got into trouble were adequately
>> >prepared by any normal standard.
>>
>> "They did not have good clothes for going in the mountains in Norway
>> at this time of year," Veka said. "On Hardangervidda there can be
>> sunshine and then a storm again in a half an hour."
>>
>> They were poorly prepared, and obviously inexperienced.
>
>Didn't one of the reports say they didn't even have a spade?
Nor a sat phone.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Mar 14th 2007, 4:35 pm
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:33:38 +0000, The Reid <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:43:15 -0800, VainGlorious
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>like keep together!
>>
>>That's a good rule indeed.
>>
>>Another good rule is: don't hike on top of each other! If you or
>>someone in your party is going to slip on a rock and fall backward,
>>it's worse when they take one or two fellow hikers down the hill with
>>them.
>
>on the other hand if theres loose rock dont be far enough apart for
>dislodged ones to speed up!
>
>My pet safety hate is people who dont cover thier axe point when
>stowed.
Agreed. There are plenty of cool new methods for stowing (and packing)
an ice axe.
A few years ago, a group of young men were climbing Mount Baker here
in the North Cascades. One of the men fell and started to slide. He
knew enough to perform a self-arrest with his axe, but I guess he had
not practiced self-arrest recently or often, for he wound up plunging
the pick into his chest. It parted his ribs and penetrated his heart,
killing him.
I was up on Mount Baker the next year, and I thought a lot about that
guy. My crew and I practiced our self-arrest technique for hours. Face
first, feet first, ass first, on our stomachs and on our backs. Over
and over and over. I made damn sure I knew EXACTLY where my axe was
and how it was oriented.
As it turns out, I didn't even slip the whole trip. And I was so
*ready*.
- TR
- alive.
wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:43:15 -0800, VainGlorious
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>like keep together!
>>
>>That's a good rule indeed.
>>
>>Another good rule is: don't hike on top of each other! If you or
>>someone in your party is going to slip on a rock and fall backward,
>>it's worse when they take one or two fellow hikers down the hill with
>>them.
>
>on the other hand if theres loose rock dont be far enough apart for
>dislodged ones to speed up!
>
>My pet safety hate is people who dont cover thier axe point when
>stowed.
Agreed. There are plenty of cool new methods for stowing (and packing)
an ice axe.
A few years ago, a group of young men were climbing Mount Baker here
in the North Cascades. One of the men fell and started to slide. He
knew enough to perform a self-arrest with his axe, but I guess he had
not practiced self-arrest recently or often, for he wound up plunging
the pick into his chest. It parted his ribs and penetrated his heart,
killing him.
I was up on Mount Baker the next year, and I thought a lot about that
guy. My crew and I practiced our self-arrest technique for hours. Face
first, feet first, ass first, on our stomachs and on our backs. Over
and over and over. I made damn sure I knew EXACTLY where my axe was
and how it was oriented.
As it turns out, I didn't even slip the whole trip. And I was so
*ready*.
- TR
- alive.
Mar 14th 2007, 7:22 pm
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
Following up to VainGlorious <[email protected]> :
>As it turns out, I didn't even slip the whole trip. And I was so
>*ready*.
And hopefully that's how it will always be.
--
Tim C.
>As it turns out, I didn't even slip the whole trip. And I was so
>*ready*.
And hopefully that's how it will always be.
--
Tim C.
Mar 14th 2007, 7:36 pm
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:05:59 -0800, VainGlorious
<[email protected]> wrote:
>but I guess he had
>not practiced self-arrest recently or often, for he wound up plunging
>the pick into his chest. It parted his ribs and penetrated his heart,
>killing him.
but did it stop the slide?
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>but I guess he had
>not practiced self-arrest recently or often, for he wound up plunging
>the pick into his chest. It parted his ribs and penetrated his heart,
>killing him.
but did it stop the slide?
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Mar 14th 2007, 7:37 pm
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 08:22:09 +0100, Tim C. <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>As it turns out, I didn't even slip the whole trip. And I was so
>>*ready*.
>
>
>And hopefully that's how it will always be.
I'm against falling off. The only time I self arrested in earnest I
found it rather frightening.
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
wrote:
>>As it turns out, I didn't even slip the whole trip. And I was so
>>*ready*.
>
>
>And hopefully that's how it will always be.
I'm against falling off. The only time I self arrested in earnest I
found it rather frightening.
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Mar 14th 2007, 8:05 pm
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
Following up to The Reid <[email protected]> :
>On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:05:59 -0800, VainGlorious
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>but I guess he had
>>not practiced self-arrest recently or often, for he wound up plunging
>>the pick into his chest. It parted his ribs and penetrated his heart,
>>killing him.
>
>but did it stop the slide?
:-)
It wasn't supposed to be a cardiac arrest though.
--
Tim C.
>On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:05:59 -0800, VainGlorious
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>but I guess he had
>>not practiced self-arrest recently or often, for he wound up plunging
>>the pick into his chest. It parted his ribs and penetrated his heart,
>>killing him.
>
>but did it stop the slide?
:-)
It wasn't supposed to be a cardiac arrest though.
--
Tim C.
Mar 14th 2007, 9:28 pm
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:05:26 +0100, Tim C. <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>but did it stop the slide?
>
>:-)
>
>It wasn't supposed to be a cardiac arrest though.
ROFL
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
wrote:
>>but did it stop the slide?
>
>:-)
>
>It wasn't supposed to be a cardiac arrest though.
ROFL
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Mar 14th 2007, 9:32 pm
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scotsmen are not outdoor people
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:05:26 +0100, Tim C. <[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to The Reid <[email protected]> :
>
>>On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:05:59 -0800, VainGlorious
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>but I guess he had
>>>not practiced self-arrest recently or often, for he wound up plunging
>>>the pick into his chest. It parted his ribs and penetrated his heart,
>>>killing him.
>>
>>but did it stop the slide?
>
>:-)
>
>It wasn't supposed to be a cardiac arrest though.
LOL
--
Martin
>Following up to The Reid <[email protected]> :
>
>>On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:05:59 -0800, VainGlorious
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>but I guess he had
>>>not practiced self-arrest recently or often, for he wound up plunging
>>>the pick into his chest. It parted his ribs and penetrated his heart,
>>>killing him.
>>
>>but did it stop the slide?
>
>:-)
>
>It wasn't supposed to be a cardiac arrest though.
LOL
--
Martin
