Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
Apr 22nd 2004, 5:59 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
A quick hi to all the regulars out there. I promise to come back in
the following months to make trouble, and offer blunt advice where I
can.
OK, so I have a few weeks to kill in Moscow, and don't really want to
hang around there, so I am planning to do a circuit that goes
Moscow-St Petersburg, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, and then
back to Moscow.
Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus? I am expecting some
unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
trappings of the region, and tourism levels there are bound to be very
low. Is Russian or Polish widely spoken there? Is English spoken at
all in Minsk? How rough is it in comparison to, say, Russia, Poland,
or Romania? And has anyone got tips for exchanging money, or where I
can find ATMs?
Also, are Russian and English widely spoken in the Baltic states?
Finally, I believe I need 2 visas for Russia. Firstly a tourist one
for the first Russian leg of the tour, and then a transit one for the
trip from Belarus back to Moscow. Can I possibly get a transit visa
from the border, and how long are they valid for? Are they any cheaper
than a tourist visa? I would need about 3 days to get from Belarus,
and then to fly out from Moscow. I know that the consulates can give
me accurate information, but there isn't one in Australia, where I am
currently residing.
Oh, one more thing, is there a good little phrasebook anyone can
recommend for this journey? How difficult is Russian to learn in
comparison to Polish (which I picked up the basics of in a week or 2)?
My strategy is to find a Russian in Moscow who can help me with the
pronounciation.
Thanks folks!
---
DFM
the following months to make trouble, and offer blunt advice where I
can.
OK, so I have a few weeks to kill in Moscow, and don't really want to
hang around there, so I am planning to do a circuit that goes
Moscow-St Petersburg, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, and then
back to Moscow.
Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus? I am expecting some
unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
trappings of the region, and tourism levels there are bound to be very
low. Is Russian or Polish widely spoken there? Is English spoken at
all in Minsk? How rough is it in comparison to, say, Russia, Poland,
or Romania? And has anyone got tips for exchanging money, or where I
can find ATMs?
Also, are Russian and English widely spoken in the Baltic states?
Finally, I believe I need 2 visas for Russia. Firstly a tourist one
for the first Russian leg of the tour, and then a transit one for the
trip from Belarus back to Moscow. Can I possibly get a transit visa
from the border, and how long are they valid for? Are they any cheaper
than a tourist visa? I would need about 3 days to get from Belarus,
and then to fly out from Moscow. I know that the consulates can give
me accurate information, but there isn't one in Australia, where I am
currently residing.
Oh, one more thing, is there a good little phrasebook anyone can
recommend for this journey? How difficult is Russian to learn in
comparison to Polish (which I picked up the basics of in a week or 2)?
My strategy is to find a Russian in Moscow who can help me with the
pronounciation.
Thanks folks!
---
DFM
Apr 22nd 2004, 6:35 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
as far as the baltic states :
Latvia has about 50% of native russians
therefore russina is a normal language.
Estonia has 28% of native russians..
therefore russian is widely spoken.
Lithuania has a small minority of native russians
but everybody speaks russian.-
of course english is widely spoken.
these 3 countries have nothing to share with the old Iron courtain..
Estonia looks like a small Finland..
Tallinn is the best of the three capital towns.
prices are about 50% of the normal european prices..
that is.. with 25 eur you can have a good meal for two persons..
with 100 eur you can sleep in the best hotels
( radissons hotels have a special internet price..and it is a 4 star
chain.. )
of course.. you can find all types of accomodation.
apartments are also widely offered..
price for central locations is about 50 eur per apt.
I just came back from Tallinn. so if you need first hand info.. no problem.
as to belarus..
what i hear is that the standard is very low..
between 50 and 100 eur per month.
"Deep Flawed Muslim" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
> A quick hi to all the regulars out there. I promise to come back in
> the following months to make trouble, and offer blunt advice where I
> can.
> OK, so I have a few weeks to kill in Moscow, and don't really want to
> hang around there, so I am planning to do a circuit that goes
> Moscow-St Petersburg, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, and then
> back to Moscow.
> Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus? I am expecting some
> unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
> trappings of the region, and tourism levels there are bound to be very
> low. Is Russian or Polish widely spoken there? Is English spoken at
> all in Minsk? How rough is it in comparison to, say, Russia, Poland,
> or Romania? And has anyone got tips for exchanging money, or where I
> can find ATMs?
> Also, are Russian and English widely spoken in the Baltic states?
> Finally, I believe I need 2 visas for Russia. Firstly a tourist one
> for the first Russian leg of the tour, and then a transit one for the
> trip from Belarus back to Moscow. Can I possibly get a transit visa
> from the border, and how long are they valid for? Are they any cheaper
> than a tourist visa? I would need about 3 days to get from Belarus,
> and then to fly out from Moscow. I know that the consulates can give
> me accurate information, but there isn't one in Australia, where I am
> currently residing.
> Oh, one more thing, is there a good little phrasebook anyone can
> recommend for this journey? How difficult is Russian to learn in
> comparison to Polish (which I picked up the basics of in a week or 2)?
> My strategy is to find a Russian in Moscow who can help me with the
> pronounciation.
> Thanks folks!
> ---
> DFM
Latvia has about 50% of native russians
therefore russina is a normal language.
Estonia has 28% of native russians..
therefore russian is widely spoken.
Lithuania has a small minority of native russians
but everybody speaks russian.-
of course english is widely spoken.
these 3 countries have nothing to share with the old Iron courtain..
Estonia looks like a small Finland..
Tallinn is the best of the three capital towns.
prices are about 50% of the normal european prices..
that is.. with 25 eur you can have a good meal for two persons..
with 100 eur you can sleep in the best hotels
( radissons hotels have a special internet price..and it is a 4 star
chain.. )
of course.. you can find all types of accomodation.
apartments are also widely offered..
price for central locations is about 50 eur per apt.
I just came back from Tallinn. so if you need first hand info.. no problem.
as to belarus..
what i hear is that the standard is very low..
between 50 and 100 eur per month.
"Deep Flawed Muslim" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
> A quick hi to all the regulars out there. I promise to come back in
> the following months to make trouble, and offer blunt advice where I
> can.
> OK, so I have a few weeks to kill in Moscow, and don't really want to
> hang around there, so I am planning to do a circuit that goes
> Moscow-St Petersburg, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, and then
> back to Moscow.
> Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus? I am expecting some
> unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
> trappings of the region, and tourism levels there are bound to be very
> low. Is Russian or Polish widely spoken there? Is English spoken at
> all in Minsk? How rough is it in comparison to, say, Russia, Poland,
> or Romania? And has anyone got tips for exchanging money, or where I
> can find ATMs?
> Also, are Russian and English widely spoken in the Baltic states?
> Finally, I believe I need 2 visas for Russia. Firstly a tourist one
> for the first Russian leg of the tour, and then a transit one for the
> trip from Belarus back to Moscow. Can I possibly get a transit visa
> from the border, and how long are they valid for? Are they any cheaper
> than a tourist visa? I would need about 3 days to get from Belarus,
> and then to fly out from Moscow. I know that the consulates can give
> me accurate information, but there isn't one in Australia, where I am
> currently residing.
> Oh, one more thing, is there a good little phrasebook anyone can
> recommend for this journey? How difficult is Russian to learn in
> comparison to Polish (which I picked up the basics of in a week or 2)?
> My strategy is to find a Russian in Moscow who can help me with the
> pronounciation.
> Thanks folks!
> ---
> DFM
Apr 22nd 2004, 8:59 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
Deep Flawed Muslim schrieb:
>
> A quick hi to all the regulars out there. I promise to come back in
> the following months to make trouble, and offer blunt advice where I
> can.
>
> OK, so I have a few weeks to kill in Moscow,
Tourist visas are now issued for a month.
> and don't really want to
> hang around there, so I am planning to do a circuit that goes
> Moscow-St Petersburg, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, and then
> back to Moscow.
>
> Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus?
Transited by car and by train.
> I am expecting some
> unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
> trappings of the region, and tourism levels there are bound to be very
> low. Is Russian or Polish widely spoken there?
Russian. Authorities encourage the use of Russian.
> Is English spoken at
> all in Minsk?
In some International hotels, I guess. Some people between 15 and, let's
say, 35 might also have knowledge of English.
> How rough is it in comparison to, say, Russia, Poland,
> or Romania?
AFAIK, there are lots of law enforcement officers. Don't get into
trouble with them. Crime rates might be lower than in Russia.
> And has anyone got tips for exchanging money, or where I
> can find ATMs?
>
> Also, are Russian and English widely spoken in the Baltic states?
Widely would be exagerated but at a wider level than in Minsk as far as
English is concerned.
All inhabitants that lived there during Soviet times should be able to
understand Russian but some don't want to understand/speak it.
> Finally, I believe I need 2 visas for Russia. Firstly a tourist one
> for the first Russian leg of the tour, and then a transit one for the
> trip from Belarus back to Moscow.
No idea whether they accept transit from Belarus to Australia via
Smolensk.
> Can I possibly get a transit visa
> from the border,
No. There should be no border guards (but maybe strett controls), and
Russian transit visas are normally not issued at the port of entry. You
might have real problems showing up at one of the Moscow international
airports with a used and expired Russian visa.
> and how long are they valid for? Are they any cheaper
> than a tourist visa? I would need about 3 days to get from Belarus,
> and then to fly out from Moscow.
3 days at my knowledge.
But you should not break your journey. So there might be a problem if
you use more than 2 days.
> I know that the consulates can give
> me accurate information, but there isn't one in Australia, where I am
> currently residing.
Sure? Try http://www.sydneyrussianconsulate.com/visa.htm
They should be able to tell you who may give information about Belarus.
Try also http://www.mfa.gov.by/eng/index.php?d=consul&id=4
http://www.mfa.gov.by/eng/index.php?d=consul&id=3
You *might* be able to get the belorussian visa at Tallinn, Vilnius Riga
or Daugavpils.
You might have problems arranging a Russian transit visa before getting
the Belorussian visa but there is one solution:
A Russian transit visa may be valid for transit between Latvia/Estonia
and Moscow international airport. It *might or might not* be valid for
transit from Belarus after getting a Belarusian visa later.
Don't know if you have to tell them which border you want to use but
http://www.sydneyrussianconsulate.co...ation_form.pdf looks
like.
Regards, ULF
>
> A quick hi to all the regulars out there. I promise to come back in
> the following months to make trouble, and offer blunt advice where I
> can.
>
> OK, so I have a few weeks to kill in Moscow,
Tourist visas are now issued for a month.
> and don't really want to
> hang around there, so I am planning to do a circuit that goes
> Moscow-St Petersburg, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, and then
> back to Moscow.
>
> Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus?
Transited by car and by train.
> I am expecting some
> unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
> trappings of the region, and tourism levels there are bound to be very
> low. Is Russian or Polish widely spoken there?
Russian. Authorities encourage the use of Russian.
> Is English spoken at
> all in Minsk?
In some International hotels, I guess. Some people between 15 and, let's
say, 35 might also have knowledge of English.
> How rough is it in comparison to, say, Russia, Poland,
> or Romania?
AFAIK, there are lots of law enforcement officers. Don't get into
trouble with them. Crime rates might be lower than in Russia.
> And has anyone got tips for exchanging money, or where I
> can find ATMs?
>
> Also, are Russian and English widely spoken in the Baltic states?
Widely would be exagerated but at a wider level than in Minsk as far as
English is concerned.
All inhabitants that lived there during Soviet times should be able to
understand Russian but some don't want to understand/speak it.
> Finally, I believe I need 2 visas for Russia. Firstly a tourist one
> for the first Russian leg of the tour, and then a transit one for the
> trip from Belarus back to Moscow.
No idea whether they accept transit from Belarus to Australia via
Smolensk.
> Can I possibly get a transit visa
> from the border,
No. There should be no border guards (but maybe strett controls), and
Russian transit visas are normally not issued at the port of entry. You
might have real problems showing up at one of the Moscow international
airports with a used and expired Russian visa.
> and how long are they valid for? Are they any cheaper
> than a tourist visa? I would need about 3 days to get from Belarus,
> and then to fly out from Moscow.
3 days at my knowledge.
But you should not break your journey. So there might be a problem if
you use more than 2 days.
> I know that the consulates can give
> me accurate information, but there isn't one in Australia, where I am
> currently residing.
Sure? Try http://www.sydneyrussianconsulate.com/visa.htm
They should be able to tell you who may give information about Belarus.
Try also http://www.mfa.gov.by/eng/index.php?d=consul&id=4
http://www.mfa.gov.by/eng/index.php?d=consul&id=3
You *might* be able to get the belorussian visa at Tallinn, Vilnius Riga
or Daugavpils.
You might have problems arranging a Russian transit visa before getting
the Belorussian visa but there is one solution:
A Russian transit visa may be valid for transit between Latvia/Estonia
and Moscow international airport. It *might or might not* be valid for
transit from Belarus after getting a Belarusian visa later.
Don't know if you have to tell them which border you want to use but
http://www.sydneyrussianconsulate.co...ation_form.pdf looks
like.
Regards, ULF
Apr 22nd 2004, 10:49 am
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
Deep Flawed Muslim wrote:
> Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus? I am expecting some
> unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
> trappings of the region,
Well, don't go there if that is all you expect. Personally, I'd expect
interesting historical cities, beautiful national parks, and hospitable
people.
http://www.belarus.org.uk/
Bjorn
> Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus? I am expecting some
> unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
> trappings of the region,
Well, don't go there if that is all you expect. Personally, I'd expect
interesting historical cities, beautiful national parks, and hospitable
people.
http://www.belarus.org.uk/
Bjorn
Apr 22nd 2004, 12:17 pm
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
[email protected] (Deep Flawed Muslim) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> A quick hi to all the regulars out there. I promise to come back in
> the following months to make trouble, and offer blunt advice where I
> can.
>
> OK, so I have a few weeks to kill in Moscow, and don't really want to
> hang around there, so I am planning to do a circuit that goes
> Moscow-St Petersburg, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, and then
> back to Moscow.
You have to get a visa in advance. You can not get it on the border.
You pay an extra fee if you need your visa faster than in 10 days. If
you issue an ordinary tourist visa you must book all accomondation in
advance. Some travellers report that it is ok not to follow the
prebooked accomondation, but formally it is not allowed. To travel
around without prebooking you need a business visa, that is more
expensive than a tourist visa. If you want to leave Russia and then go
back you need a multi-entry visa. As far as I knwo there is no suvh
thing as a multy entry tourist visa, menaning you need a business
visa.
You have to read a travellers guide (for inctance Lonely Planet), in
order to learn the visa rules before you go on with your planning.
This is essential, if you want to go to Russia. My advice is that you
stay inside Russia for the whole forthnight. What about for instance
go to St. Petersburg?
Best regards,
Jan
> Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus? I am expecting some
> unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
> trappings of the region, and tourism levels there are bound to be very
> low. Is Russian or Polish widely spoken there? Is English spoken at
> all in Minsk? How rough is it in comparison to, say, Russia, Poland,
> or Romania? And has anyone got tips for exchanging money, or where I
> can find ATMs?
>
> Also, are Russian and English widely spoken in the Baltic states?
>
> Finally, I believe I need 2 visas for Russia. Firstly a tourist one
> for the first Russian leg of the tour, and then a transit one for the
> trip from Belarus back to Moscow. Can I possibly get a transit visa
> from the border, and how long are they valid for? Are they any cheaper
> than a tourist visa? I would need about 3 days to get from Belarus,
> and then to fly out from Moscow. I know that the consulates can give
> me accurate information, but there isn't one in Australia, where I am
> currently residing.
>
> Oh, one more thing, is there a good little phrasebook anyone can
> recommend for this journey? How difficult is Russian to learn in
> comparison to Polish (which I picked up the basics of in a week or 2)?
> My strategy is to find a Russian in Moscow who can help me with the
> pronounciation.
>
> Thanks folks!
> ---
> DFM
> A quick hi to all the regulars out there. I promise to come back in
> the following months to make trouble, and offer blunt advice where I
> can.
>
> OK, so I have a few weeks to kill in Moscow, and don't really want to
> hang around there, so I am planning to do a circuit that goes
> Moscow-St Petersburg, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, and then
> back to Moscow.
You have to get a visa in advance. You can not get it on the border.
You pay an extra fee if you need your visa faster than in 10 days. If
you issue an ordinary tourist visa you must book all accomondation in
advance. Some travellers report that it is ok not to follow the
prebooked accomondation, but formally it is not allowed. To travel
around without prebooking you need a business visa, that is more
expensive than a tourist visa. If you want to leave Russia and then go
back you need a multi-entry visa. As far as I knwo there is no suvh
thing as a multy entry tourist visa, menaning you need a business
visa.
You have to read a travellers guide (for inctance Lonely Planet), in
order to learn the visa rules before you go on with your planning.
This is essential, if you want to go to Russia. My advice is that you
stay inside Russia for the whole forthnight. What about for instance
go to St. Petersburg?
Best regards,
Jan
> Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus? I am expecting some
> unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
> trappings of the region, and tourism levels there are bound to be very
> low. Is Russian or Polish widely spoken there? Is English spoken at
> all in Minsk? How rough is it in comparison to, say, Russia, Poland,
> or Romania? And has anyone got tips for exchanging money, or where I
> can find ATMs?
>
> Also, are Russian and English widely spoken in the Baltic states?
>
> Finally, I believe I need 2 visas for Russia. Firstly a tourist one
> for the first Russian leg of the tour, and then a transit one for the
> trip from Belarus back to Moscow. Can I possibly get a transit visa
> from the border, and how long are they valid for? Are they any cheaper
> than a tourist visa? I would need about 3 days to get from Belarus,
> and then to fly out from Moscow. I know that the consulates can give
> me accurate information, but there isn't one in Australia, where I am
> currently residing.
>
> Oh, one more thing, is there a good little phrasebook anyone can
> recommend for this journey? How difficult is Russian to learn in
> comparison to Polish (which I picked up the basics of in a week or 2)?
> My strategy is to find a Russian in Moscow who can help me with the
> pronounciation.
>
> Thanks folks!
> ---
> DFM
Apr 22nd 2004, 1:34 pm
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
Deep Flawed Muslim
> Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus?
Yes, three times last year and I'm going again in a few weeks.
> I am expecting some
> unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
> trappings of the region, and tourism levels there are bound to be very
No worse than Russia really, at least in Minsk, Mogilev, Grodno and other
major cities.
> low. Is Russian or Polish widely spoken there?
Russian is basically universal in Minsk, Polish crops up closer to the
border particularly in Brest but Russian is still dominant.
> Is English spoken at all in Minsk?
Yes, in major hotels and at the airport etc. As for the general population,
all the younger ones studied English at school so they all know at least a
few words.
> How rough is it in comparison to, say, Russia, Poland,
If you're referring to 'criminality' then it is 'smoother' than Russia or
Romania.
> And has anyone got tips for exchanging money,
There are currency conversion kiosks near or in just about every large shop.
No-one holds money in rubles (Belarusian Rubles I mean) ...dollars and euros
are held and converted immediately before purchasing something.
> or where I can find ATMs?
Loads of those too.
> Finally, I believe I need 2 visas for Russia. Firstly a tourist one
> for the first Russian leg of the tour, and then a transit one for the
> trip from Belarus back to Moscow. Can I possibly get a transit visa
> from the border, and how long are they valid for?
You can't get a Belarusian visa of any sort at the border. You need to apply
at a consulate or get one on arrival at Minsk 2 airport (which is what
always do).
Eryk
---
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> Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus?
Yes, three times last year and I'm going again in a few weeks.
> I am expecting some
> unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
> trappings of the region, and tourism levels there are bound to be very
No worse than Russia really, at least in Minsk, Mogilev, Grodno and other
major cities.
> low. Is Russian or Polish widely spoken there?
Russian is basically universal in Minsk, Polish crops up closer to the
border particularly in Brest but Russian is still dominant.
> Is English spoken at all in Minsk?
Yes, in major hotels and at the airport etc. As for the general population,
all the younger ones studied English at school so they all know at least a
few words.
> How rough is it in comparison to, say, Russia, Poland,
If you're referring to 'criminality' then it is 'smoother' than Russia or
Romania.
> And has anyone got tips for exchanging money,
There are currency conversion kiosks near or in just about every large shop.
No-one holds money in rubles (Belarusian Rubles I mean) ...dollars and euros
are held and converted immediately before purchasing something.
> or where I can find ATMs?
Loads of those too.
> Finally, I believe I need 2 visas for Russia. Firstly a tourist one
> for the first Russian leg of the tour, and then a transit one for the
> trip from Belarus back to Moscow. Can I possibly get a transit visa
> from the border, and how long are they valid for?
You can't get a Belarusian visa of any sort at the border. You need to apply
at a consulate or get one on arrival at Minsk 2 airport (which is what
always do).
Eryk
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 20/02/2004
Apr 23rd 2004, 2:38 am
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
"Eryk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<TQPhc.78$pd6.24@newsfe1-win>...
> Deep Flawed Muslim
>
> > Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus?
>
> Yes, three times last year and I'm going again in a few weeks.
Ok., thanks Eryk, and to everyone else. I am currently reconsidering
Belarus for a few reasons. Firstly, I can't seem to find much that I
should see there. It really seems to be a place you go because few
other people go there, or maybe because you want to view some
radioactive sites. The terrain is supposedly very flat and uninspiring
too. I generally travel to see things that are uniquely beautiful,
fascinating or just bizarre. Is there anything I am missing, or is
there not a great deal to see there considering the other places I am
going to?
Secondly, Lonely Planet warns that the cost of accomodation and meals
for tourists is high (and bad value), but all else is dirt cheap. This
coupled with difficult visa rules is starting to make the place look
like it's more trouble that its worth. I only wanted to spend maybe 5
- 8 days there in total.
Finally, my Russian is non-existent at this point, and I only expect
it to be at survival-level when I get there. This would make it quite
difficult, but I have dealt with the absence of a local language a few
times before without too many problems.
I guess I want someone to say "YES, GO TO BELARUS AND SEE BLAH BLAH
BLAH.... IT'S REALLY WORTH THE EFFORT!!!!", or "Don't bother, stick to
the Baltic states instead".
Thanks again for the replies!
---
DFM
> Deep Flawed Muslim
>
> > Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus?
>
> Yes, three times last year and I'm going again in a few weeks.
Ok., thanks Eryk, and to everyone else. I am currently reconsidering
Belarus for a few reasons. Firstly, I can't seem to find much that I
should see there. It really seems to be a place you go because few
other people go there, or maybe because you want to view some
radioactive sites. The terrain is supposedly very flat and uninspiring
too. I generally travel to see things that are uniquely beautiful,
fascinating or just bizarre. Is there anything I am missing, or is
there not a great deal to see there considering the other places I am
going to?
Secondly, Lonely Planet warns that the cost of accomodation and meals
for tourists is high (and bad value), but all else is dirt cheap. This
coupled with difficult visa rules is starting to make the place look
like it's more trouble that its worth. I only wanted to spend maybe 5
- 8 days there in total.
Finally, my Russian is non-existent at this point, and I only expect
it to be at survival-level when I get there. This would make it quite
difficult, but I have dealt with the absence of a local language a few
times before without too many problems.
I guess I want someone to say "YES, GO TO BELARUS AND SEE BLAH BLAH
BLAH.... IT'S REALLY WORTH THE EFFORT!!!!", or "Don't bother, stick to
the Baltic states instead".
Thanks again for the replies!
---
DFM
Apr 23rd 2004, 8:01 am
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
[email protected] (Deep Flawed Muslim) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> "Eryk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<TQPhc.78$pd6.24@newsfe1-win>...
> > Deep Flawed Muslim
> >
> > > Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus?
> >
> > Yes, three times last year and I'm going again in a few weeks.
>
> Ok., thanks Eryk, and to everyone else. I am currently reconsidering
> Belarus for a few reasons. Firstly, I can't seem to find much that I
> should see there.
There is hardly any places that lacks a lot of things to see. Are we
talking that you have done a lot of study on what you can see and
nothing appealed to you, or you simply hardly know anything about
Belarus and need to study more?
> It really seems to be a place you go because few
> other people go there, or maybe because you want to view some
> radioactive sites.
You probably think about Ukrain. By the way it sound like a very
interesing tourist sight.
> The terrain is supposedly very flat and uninspiring
> too. I generally travel to see things that are uniquely beautiful,
> fascinating or just bizarre. Is there anything I am missing, or is
> there not a great deal to see there considering the other places I am
> going to?
I have not been in Bellarus, and would like to go someday, but I also
have the impression that it isn't excacty the hub of the World. When
it comes to being flat, that is equaly true for Russia (except
Caucasus and Ural), Ukrain and the Baltics as well. If you are
planning to go mountain hiking, find somewhere else
. A bit of
fascinating and very bizarre I asume are something you could
experience a lot of.
There are definately some obsticals if you want to see Russia, Ukrain
and Belarus, as language, red tape and poverty. It sounds like you are
the type that is willing to sit down and learn some language to go
there for inctance. If you do it will give you a lot in return. On the
other hand this in not the place for Canary Islands sort of people.
> Secondly, Lonely Planet warns that the cost of accomodation and meals
> for tourists is high (and bad value), but all else is dirt cheap. This
> coupled with difficult visa rules is starting to make the place look
> like it's more trouble that its worth. I only wanted to spend maybe 5
> - 8 days there in total.
You probably refer to the two price system. I have only been in
Russia, but I assume this is the same thing in Belarus. Tourists pay
from 3-10 times the price, locals pay in museums, big theatres and
other tourist magnets. To some degree pirate taxis. markets and the
like have adopted the same idea. In a sense this is fair, because it
reflects the standard of living. In another sense I get a feeling of
everybody is after my money after a few days in the big city tourist
areas. On the other hand people on the streets selling their goods are
very descrete and respetful, compamred to Maroco, Egypt, India and
other so called holiday paradises.
The general answers to the problem is getting to know the city / area
/ country, so you can stay away from the tourist traps, learning the
language so you can talk to others than people from the torist
business and leaving the big cities where there is no two price system
and often no knowledge of English.
> Finally, my Russian is non-existent at this point, and I only expect
> it to be at survival-level when I get there. This would make it quite
> difficult, but I have dealt with the absence of a local language a few
> times before without too many problems.
I study Russian at a beginner level and have tried different books and
courses. I could give you an advice or two if you are really
interested in learning the language. The bad news is that it takes a
long time to master, the good news is that it isn't that difficult
(think about it - how complicated can it be to speak
> I guess I want someone to say "YES, GO TO BELARUS AND SEE BLAH BLAH
> BLAH.... IT'S REALLY WORTH THE EFFORT!!!!", or "Don't bother, stick to
> the Baltic states instead".
Spend the whole holiday in Russia
Best regards,
Jan
> "Eryk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<TQPhc.78$pd6.24@newsfe1-win>...
> > Deep Flawed Muslim
> >
> > > Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus?
> >
> > Yes, three times last year and I'm going again in a few weeks.
>
> Ok., thanks Eryk, and to everyone else. I am currently reconsidering
> Belarus for a few reasons. Firstly, I can't seem to find much that I
> should see there.
There is hardly any places that lacks a lot of things to see. Are we
talking that you have done a lot of study on what you can see and
nothing appealed to you, or you simply hardly know anything about
Belarus and need to study more?
> It really seems to be a place you go because few
> other people go there, or maybe because you want to view some
> radioactive sites.
You probably think about Ukrain. By the way it sound like a very
interesing tourist sight.
> The terrain is supposedly very flat and uninspiring
> too. I generally travel to see things that are uniquely beautiful,
> fascinating or just bizarre. Is there anything I am missing, or is
> there not a great deal to see there considering the other places I am
> going to?
I have not been in Bellarus, and would like to go someday, but I also
have the impression that it isn't excacty the hub of the World. When
it comes to being flat, that is equaly true for Russia (except
Caucasus and Ural), Ukrain and the Baltics as well. If you are
planning to go mountain hiking, find somewhere else
. A bit offascinating and very bizarre I asume are something you could
experience a lot of.
There are definately some obsticals if you want to see Russia, Ukrain
and Belarus, as language, red tape and poverty. It sounds like you are
the type that is willing to sit down and learn some language to go
there for inctance. If you do it will give you a lot in return. On the
other hand this in not the place for Canary Islands sort of people.
> Secondly, Lonely Planet warns that the cost of accomodation and meals
> for tourists is high (and bad value), but all else is dirt cheap. This
> coupled with difficult visa rules is starting to make the place look
> like it's more trouble that its worth. I only wanted to spend maybe 5
> - 8 days there in total.
You probably refer to the two price system. I have only been in
Russia, but I assume this is the same thing in Belarus. Tourists pay
from 3-10 times the price, locals pay in museums, big theatres and
other tourist magnets. To some degree pirate taxis. markets and the
like have adopted the same idea. In a sense this is fair, because it
reflects the standard of living. In another sense I get a feeling of
everybody is after my money after a few days in the big city tourist
areas. On the other hand people on the streets selling their goods are
very descrete and respetful, compamred to Maroco, Egypt, India and
other so called holiday paradises.
The general answers to the problem is getting to know the city / area
/ country, so you can stay away from the tourist traps, learning the
language so you can talk to others than people from the torist
business and leaving the big cities where there is no two price system
and often no knowledge of English.
> Finally, my Russian is non-existent at this point, and I only expect
> it to be at survival-level when I get there. This would make it quite
> difficult, but I have dealt with the absence of a local language a few
> times before without too many problems.
I study Russian at a beginner level and have tried different books and
courses. I could give you an advice or two if you are really
interested in learning the language. The bad news is that it takes a
long time to master, the good news is that it isn't that difficult
(think about it - how complicated can it be to speak
> I guess I want someone to say "YES, GO TO BELARUS AND SEE BLAH BLAH
> BLAH.... IT'S REALLY WORTH THE EFFORT!!!!", or "Don't bother, stick to
> the Baltic states instead".
Spend the whole holiday in Russia
Best regards,
Jan
Apr 23rd 2004, 9:09 am
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
Deep Flawed Muslim wrote:
> I guess I want someone to say "YES, GO TO BELARUS AND SEE BLAH BLAH
> BLAH.... IT'S REALLY WORTH THE EFFORT!!!!", or "Don't bother, stick to
> the Baltic states instead".
Why?
Bjorn
> I guess I want someone to say "YES, GO TO BELARUS AND SEE BLAH BLAH
> BLAH.... IT'S REALLY WORTH THE EFFORT!!!!", or "Don't bother, stick to
> the Baltic states instead".
Why?
Bjorn
Apr 23rd 2004, 9:28 am
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
"?ystein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When
> it comes to being flat, that is equaly true for Russia (except
> Caucasus and Ural), Ukrain and the Baltics as well. If you are
> planning to go mountain hiking, find somewhere else.
The Carpathian Mountains in Western Ukraine aren't exactly flat, nor is the
Crimean Peninsula.
Lana
news:[email protected]...
> When
> it comes to being flat, that is equaly true for Russia (except
> Caucasus and Ural), Ukrain and the Baltics as well. If you are
> planning to go mountain hiking, find somewhere else
.The Carpathian Mountains in Western Ukraine aren't exactly flat, nor is the
Crimean Peninsula.
Lana
Apr 23rd 2004, 9:53 am
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
> Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus? I am expecting some
> unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
> trappings of the region, and tourism levels there are bound to be very
> low.
Polish government encourage to avoid territory of Belarus because of crime
and corruption. Transportation firms prefer to send trucks to Russia through
Lithouania territory, it is less profitable, but safer. Final decision is
yours.
> Oh, one more thing, is there a good little phrasebook anyone can
> recommend for this journey? How difficult is Russian to learn in
> comparison to Polish (which I picked up the basics of in a week or 2)?
> My strategy is to find a Russian in Moscow who can help me with the
> pronounciation.
I know these two languages as Poland is my home country. I've been learning
Russion at school for years. If you were able to catch basics of Polish in 2
weeks - no problem for Russian. A good advice is to learn Russian cyrylics
alphabet (AKA ghrachdankah) as many words in Russion are very similiar to
English. Russion is widely spoke in all republics of ex-USSR.
best regards
Kris
> unforgiving bureaucracy, poverty, corruption, and all the general
> trappings of the region, and tourism levels there are bound to be very
> low.
Polish government encourage to avoid territory of Belarus because of crime
and corruption. Transportation firms prefer to send trucks to Russia through
Lithouania territory, it is less profitable, but safer. Final decision is
yours.
> Oh, one more thing, is there a good little phrasebook anyone can
> recommend for this journey? How difficult is Russian to learn in
> comparison to Polish (which I picked up the basics of in a week or 2)?
> My strategy is to find a Russian in Moscow who can help me with the
> pronounciation.
I know these two languages as Poland is my home country. I've been learning
Russion at school for years. If you were able to catch basics of Polish in 2
weeks - no problem for Russian. A good advice is to learn Russian cyrylics
alphabet (AKA ghrachdankah) as many words in Russion are very similiar to
English. Russion is widely spoke in all republics of ex-USSR.
best regards
Kris
Apr 23rd 2004, 12:06 pm
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
Deep
> radioactive sites. The terrain is supposedly very flat and uninspiring
> too. I generally travel to see things that are uniquely beautiful,
> fascinating or just bizarre. Is there anything I am missing, or is
> there not a great deal to see there considering the other places I am
> going to?
Depends what sort of thing you find interesting. Arguably Lithuania is
similar in terms or terrain with the added bonus of a 'coastline', but it
still comes down to personal preferences. Belarus has some wonderful
forested nature reserves (but then so does Latvia) and lots of 'WW2' related
memorials and museums (if that interests you).
> Secondly, Lonely Planet warns that the cost of accomodation and meals
> for tourists is high (and bad value), but all else is dirt cheap. This
That can be the case as far as hotels are concerned but it is rubbish as far
as restaurants are concerned.
> Finally, my Russian is non-existent at this point, and I only expect
> it to be at survival-level when I get there. This would make it quite
> difficult, but I have dealt with the absence of a local language a few
> times before without too many problems.
Your Latvian, Lithuanian and Estonian will likely be even less competent so
I don't think that is an issue to base your decision on.
> I guess I want someone to say "YES, GO TO BELARUS AND SEE BLAH BLAH
> BLAH.... IT'S REALLY WORTH THE EFFORT!!!!", or "Don't bother, stick to
> the Baltic states instead".
That is not a decision I could make for you, sorry
Eryk
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> radioactive sites. The terrain is supposedly very flat and uninspiring
> too. I generally travel to see things that are uniquely beautiful,
> fascinating or just bizarre. Is there anything I am missing, or is
> there not a great deal to see there considering the other places I am
> going to?
Depends what sort of thing you find interesting. Arguably Lithuania is
similar in terms or terrain with the added bonus of a 'coastline', but it
still comes down to personal preferences. Belarus has some wonderful
forested nature reserves (but then so does Latvia) and lots of 'WW2' related
memorials and museums (if that interests you).
> Secondly, Lonely Planet warns that the cost of accomodation and meals
> for tourists is high (and bad value), but all else is dirt cheap. This
That can be the case as far as hotels are concerned but it is rubbish as far
as restaurants are concerned.
> Finally, my Russian is non-existent at this point, and I only expect
> it to be at survival-level when I get there. This would make it quite
> difficult, but I have dealt with the absence of a local language a few
> times before without too many problems.
Your Latvian, Lithuanian and Estonian will likely be even less competent so
I don't think that is an issue to base your decision on.
> I guess I want someone to say "YES, GO TO BELARUS AND SEE BLAH BLAH
> BLAH.... IT'S REALLY WORTH THE EFFORT!!!!", or "Don't bother, stick to
> the Baltic states instead".
That is not a decision I could make for you, sorry
Eryk
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 20/02/2004
Apr 23rd 2004, 1:49 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
Eryk wrote:
> Deep
> >
>>Secondly, Lonely Planet warns that the cost of accomodation and meals
>>for tourists is high (and bad value), but all else is dirt cheap. This
>
> That can be the case as far as hotels are concerned but it is rubbish as far
> as restaurants are concerned.
Although not an avid LP reader (anymore), I got the impression that they
are generally rubbish on eastern european (CIS) countries. That's not
based on close scrutiny of their guides, though, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Bjorn
> Deep
> >
>>Secondly, Lonely Planet warns that the cost of accomodation and meals
>>for tourists is high (and bad value), but all else is dirt cheap. This
>
> That can be the case as far as hotels are concerned but it is rubbish as far
> as restaurants are concerned.
Although not an avid LP reader (anymore), I got the impression that they
are generally rubbish on eastern european (CIS) countries. That's not
based on close scrutiny of their guides, though, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Bjorn
Apr 23rd 2004, 3:32 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
Björn
> Although not an avid LP reader (anymore), I got the impression that they
> are generally rubbish on eastern european (CIS) countries. That's not
> based on close scrutiny of their guides, though, so correct me if I'm
wrong.
In my experience they are OK for 'immovable facts' like which street the
main train station is on but they're weak in most other areas and hopelessly
wrong about stuff like visas etc. since they are not updated anything like
often enough. You need annual revisions to keep pace with eastern europe.
Eryk
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 20/02/2004
> Although not an avid LP reader (anymore), I got the impression that they
> are generally rubbish on eastern european (CIS) countries. That's not
> based on close scrutiny of their guides, though, so correct me if I'm
wrong.
In my experience they are OK for 'immovable facts' like which street the
main train station is on but they're weak in most other areas and hopelessly
wrong about stuff like visas etc. since they are not updated anything like
often enough. You need annual revisions to keep pace with eastern europe.
Eryk
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 20/02/2004
Apr 23rd 2004, 4:06 pm
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Russia, the Baltics, and Belarus
Deep Flawed Muslim wrote:
> "Eryk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<TQPhc.78$pd6.24@newsfe1-win>...
>
>>Deep Flawed Muslim
>>>Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus?
>>Yes, three times last year and I'm going again in a few weeks.
>
>
> Ok., thanks Eryk, and to everyone else. I am currently reconsidering
> Belarus for a few reasons. Firstly, I can't seem to find much that I
> should see there.
Here's some stuff:
http://www.belarusguide.com/travel1/Attrctn.html
The Mir castle is on the world heritage list. The Khatyn memorial looks
interesting. The bison seem cool.
http://www.belarusguide.com/nature1/puscha.html
> It really seems to be a place you go because few
> other people go there, or maybe because you want to view some
> radioactive sites. The terrain is supposedly very flat and uninspiring
> too.
Info on the Belarusian uplands:
http://www.belarusguide.com/nature1/nathil.html
> I generally travel to see things that are uniquely beautiful,
> fascinating or just bizarre. Is there anything I am missing,
Depends on your definitions of uniquely beautiful, fascinating and bizarre.
Btw, here's a photo album that gives you a lot of impressions of Minsk:
http://aci.byelarus.com/album/index.php
Very everyday sort of photos, pretty much like taking a stroll through
various parts of the city in different seasons. An unusual feature is
that they seem to have many little statues, like this one:
http://aci.byelarus.com/album/04-03/...130990_JPG.htm
Bjorn
> "Eryk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<TQPhc.78$pd6.24@newsfe1-win>...
>
>>Deep Flawed Muslim
>>>Firstly, has ANYONE actually been to Belarus?
>>Yes, three times last year and I'm going again in a few weeks.
>
>
> Ok., thanks Eryk, and to everyone else. I am currently reconsidering
> Belarus for a few reasons. Firstly, I can't seem to find much that I
> should see there.
Here's some stuff:
http://www.belarusguide.com/travel1/Attrctn.html
The Mir castle is on the world heritage list. The Khatyn memorial looks
interesting. The bison seem cool.
http://www.belarusguide.com/nature1/puscha.html
> It really seems to be a place you go because few
> other people go there, or maybe because you want to view some
> radioactive sites. The terrain is supposedly very flat and uninspiring
> too.
Info on the Belarusian uplands:
http://www.belarusguide.com/nature1/nathil.html
> I generally travel to see things that are uniquely beautiful,
> fascinating or just bizarre. Is there anything I am missing,
Depends on your definitions of uniquely beautiful, fascinating and bizarre.
Btw, here's a photo album that gives you a lot of impressions of Minsk:
http://aci.byelarus.com/album/index.php
Very everyday sort of photos, pretty much like taking a stroll through
various parts of the city in different seasons. An unusual feature is
that they seem to have many little statues, like this one:
http://aci.byelarus.com/album/04-03/...130990_JPG.htm
Bjorn