chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Sjoerd <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn"
    > > <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > > news:1gpksxf.u0beie1v14mc4N%this_address_is_for_sp [email protected]...
    > > > Do you usually travel to another country while all your stuff is at the
    > > > hotel?
    > >
    > > Often.
    > >
    > > Singapore to Malaysia daytrip.
    > > Spain to Gibraltar daytrip.
    > > Finland to Estonia daytrip.
    > > USA to Mexico daytrip.
    > > Hong Kong to Macau daytrip.
    > > Austria to Slovenia daytrip.
    > > Turkey to Greece daytrip.
    >
    > Fair enough, though given the amount you travel, it's probably not
    > 'usual' for you either! I've done different country daytrips- I just
    > haven't taken (or thought I'd need) my passport. The other poster was
    > referring to what to do with a passport when you _are_ in the same
    > country though.

Oh, and I did a US-Canada daytrip once, and didn't have my passport then
either! (I'm a UK passport holder.)

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:57:01 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
<[email protected]> wrote:


    >Fortunately, I've never had to depend on a US Consulate for assistance
    >overseas, but I've heard horror stories.

My wife and I secured a flat in Helsinki last summer and spent
ten weeks there. We invited some of my relatives to visit us in
Arizona and I got curious as to visa restricitons for Finns,
specifically would there be a problem taking then into Mexico and
back. We decided to actually pay a visit to our consulate, which
is housed with the embassy. We went to the rather pleasant street
that served as "embassy row". My wife wondered how easy it would
be to recognize, I kiddingly answered that we should look for the
highest wall.

and ther it was, the highest wall, really messing up the
aesthetucs of a ratehr pleasant leafy street.

At the street there were two small entrance buildings. We went
into the first and were told to go to the second. At the second a
security person, a Finn, asked us what we wanted. We said we'd
like to see someone in the consulate to ask a few questions. We
were told to go home and call.

We were a tad irritated at this. We asked now that we were there
couldn't we just talk to someone.

This whole time we were standing outside the building on the
sidewalk as the person talked to us through a partially opened
door. Inside we could see a long counter of the type usually seen
in security entrance buildings.

After we persisted we were told they would get someone in the
building to talk to us... on the phone.

The security person held out a telephone handset to me that was
on the end of a long coiled cable and which only reached a couple
of feet out of the door and I talked to the consular person there
on the sidewalk.

I wondered how it would be handled if we really needed consular
services.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 01:19:54 GMT, Rita <[email protected]>
wrote:


    >Yes, that is what I meant. But to be truthful, until I learned of
    >this incident I had never really considered luggage in an overhead
    >rack might be stolen if I left the car. And mine probably would not
    >be, because it neither looks or is expensive.

A simple bicycle chain or cable lock would secure them
sufficiently.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

    > In fifty years of travel to many of the most crowded places
    > (and in living in several -- Stratford, London, Oxford, Venice --
    > I fight my way up and down the Rialto Bridge several times
    > a day), I have never had my pocket picked, and my wife suffered
    > it once -- from a foolishly open handbag in the Selfridges'
    > Christmas shopping crush.

I think it's only happened to me once, at one of the old Hogmanay
celebration in Edinburgh, when it was at the Tron, smaller-scale
but also a lot rougher than it is now. Immediately after the bells
and the Auld Lang Syne everybody set to the usual frenzy of kissing
and shaking hands. One gorgeous woman came up to me and hoovered
her mouth to mine for a kiss that felt like it went on for half an
hour. I later found the coin pouch had gone from my back pocket;
she must have had a confederate.

Since the coin pouch cost me 5p from a charity shop and it had 20p
in it, the transaction seemed fair enough to me.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:04:45 GMT, "Bob Fusillo" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >The regularly recurring comments on this site about pickpockets suggest a
    >fixation that is unwarranted.

Incorrect. It is not a fixation, it's prudent forethought.

    >It is, of course, sensible to be careful, but
    >some people have the impression that it is not safe to walk the streets of
    >most European cities without their money stapled to their underwear.

That's not what people have said.

    >There
    >are pickpockets in Trafalgar Square, around the Eiffel Tower, on the Spanish
    >Steps, the Rialto Bridge -- but no more than in Times Square, or around the
    >Bean in Chicago, or in most large shopping centers in the U.S.

I think that's the real reason for your post-concern that Europe will
come off worse than the US. The resason to be prudent is because there
are many thousands of pickpockets out there. Period.

    >The odds are
    >very much against victimhood if the slightest care is taken

That kind of advice is what makes people into victims.

    >In fifty years of travel to many of the
    >most crowded places ( and in living in several -- Stratford, London, Oxford,
    >Venice -- I fight my way up and down the Rialto Bridge several times a day),

Sorry, but some places, some train stations, some tourist traps, are
really infested with pickpockets, and the more people know about it,
the better.

    > The presence of jails in even the smallest towns all over the world
    >suggests that there are thieves everywhere -- the conclusion is that one is
    >as safe traveling as at home.

Again with the defensiveness? Don't be defensive. for god's sake, help
people realize the risks when they are real. Pickpocketing destroys
more vacations than you can imagine; I remember seeing the line at the
English-speaking police station at Rome for people reporting their
pockets picked-it was over two _blocks_ long.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:37:36 +0100, "m.berger" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Where in Europe??
    >Sweden? Norway? Germany? Switzerland?.....?

Wherever there are serious crushes of tourists, especially train
stations and the areas around them. Amsterdam, Rome, Florence, Paris,
and Berlin come to mind.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:43:04 -0500, "Keith" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Pickpockets work in areas were large amounts of people congregate. Public
    >transportation forces a large amount of people in a relatively small space.
    >But the US doesn't use public transportation, outside of NYC etc.

Good point; you don't see that as much in the US as in Europe. But
once had my pocket picked in San Francisco; one person pretended to
drop a contact lens and backed up, pushing me into a confederate. I
picked the person who backed up (had noticed immediately that my
wallet was gone) and carried him bodily into a public restaurant,
shouting he had robbed me (never seen so many astonished and pale
faces turned my way). I got my wallet back, but the police told me
they don't recommend that procedure....

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:16:26 -0500, viking <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:04:45 GMT, "Bob Fusillo" <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >>The regularly recurring comments on this site about pickpockets suggest a
    >>fixation that is unwarranted.
    >Incorrect. It is not a fixation, it's prudent forethought.
    >>It is, of course, sensible to be careful, but
    >>some people have the impression that it is not safe to walk the streets of
    >>most European cities without their money stapled to their underwear.
    >That's not what people have said.
    >>There
    >>are pickpockets in Trafalgar Square, around the Eiffel Tower, on the Spanish
    >>Steps, the Rialto Bridge -- but no more than in Times Square, or around the
    >>Bean in Chicago, or in most large shopping centers in the U.S.
    >I think that's the real reason for your post-concern that Europe will
    >come off worse than the US. The resason to be prudent is because there
    >are many thousands of pickpockets out there. Period.
    >>The odds are
    >>very much against victimhood if the slightest care is taken
    >That kind of advice is what makes people into victims.
    >>In fifty years of travel to many of the
    >>most crowded places ( and in living in several -- Stratford, London, Oxford,
    >>Venice -- I fight my way up and down the Rialto Bridge several times a day),
    >Sorry, but some places, some train stations, some tourist traps, are
    >really infested with pickpockets, and the more people know about it,
    >the better.
    >> The presence of jails in even the smallest towns all over the world
    >>suggests that there are thieves everywhere -- the conclusion is that one is
    >>as safe traveling as at home.
    >Again with the defensiveness? Don't be defensive. for god's sake, help
    >people realize the risks when they are real. Pickpocketing destroys
    >more vacations than you can imagine; I remember seeing the line at the
    >English-speaking police station at Rome for people reporting their
    >pockets picked-it was over two _blocks_ long.

If one takes sensible precautions, then there is no need to yield to
panic. But if one ignores the precautions, panic may well result when
one's money and documents disappear. I'll wear my money belt and travel
with peace of mind.

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 19:24:39 GMT, Rita <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >If one takes sensible precautions, then there is no need to yield to
    >panic. But if one ignores the precautions, panic may well result when
    >one's money and documents disappear. I'll wear my money belt and travel
    >with peace of mind.

Are you saying anything I haven't said? I don't advocate yielding to
panic.

PS: I hope your money belt is worn under clothing; have seen them cut
off tourists in Rome.

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 15:20:53 -0500, viking <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 19:24:39 GMT, Rita <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >>If one takes sensible precautions, then there is no need to yield to
    >>panic. But if one ignores the precautions, panic may well result when
    >>one's money and documents disappear. I'll wear my money belt and travel
    >>with peace of mind.
    >Are you saying anything I haven't said? I don't advocate yielding to
    >panic.
    >PS: I hope your money belt is worn under clothing; have seen them cut
    >off tourists in Rome.

Actually I was agreeing with you -- it was the poster you were replying
to who seemed to suggest caution was overblown.

And, yes, of course, I wear my money belt under my clothing. Traveled
once in Mexico with a group and one man wore a money belt outside
his clothing and it was stolen without him being in the least aware
of it. Dreadful mess getting his documents replaced.

My grandfather told us when we were young how in the old days (early
1900's), after being pickpocket once, some people such as himself
vowed to never let some SOB get away with that again. When traveling
in trains and other likely places, they would have a dummy wallet
safety-pinned inside the back trouser pocket, so that it would not
come out when grabbed. What did grab the thief's fingers were a row of
small fishhooks sewn into the leather along a row, ones which were
sharpened flat on the sides, so as to shred the thieve's fingertips
somewhat when he withdrew his hand. Fair play.

I have looked in vain for the specific details on this, but can find
nothing. And it's too late to ask Grandpa. But this thread got me
thinking. Here in the US today, I have never been pickpocketed nor
known anyone who has. But from reading RTE, it sounds like a
not-infrequent occurrence there, and I would like to use his technique
so any tips would be appreciated.

Ralph

Ralph Jeffers <[email protected]> wrote:

    > What did grab the thief's fingers were a row of
    > small fishhooks sewn into the leather along a row, ones which were
    > sharpened flat on the sides, so as to shred the thieve's fingertips
    > somewhat when he withdrew his hand. Fair play.

[]

    > I have looked in vain for the specific details on this, but can find
    > nothing. And it's too late to ask Grandpa. But this thread got me
    > thinking. Here in the US today, I have never been pickpocketed nor
    > known anyone who has. But from reading RTE, it sounds like a
    > not-infrequent occurrence there, and I would like to use his technique
    > so any tips would be appreciated.

I think you're better off just protecting your valuables. If you caught
the thief, would you subject him/her to the same thing you described
above? If you would, then I think you're a sick individual, and I'd be
inclined to say the same if you left such a trap. You _might_ find
yourself in legal trouble too- but I don't know much about that.

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 23:51:40 +0000, [email protected]
(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn) wrote:

    >Ralph Jeffers <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> What did grab the thief's fingers were a row of
    >> small fishhooks sewn into the leather along a row, ones which were
    >> sharpened flat on the sides, so as to shred the thieve's fingertips
    >> somewhat when he withdrew his hand. Fair play.
    >[]
    >> I have looked in vain for the specific details on this, but can find
    >> nothing. And it's too late to ask Grandpa. But this thread got me
    >> thinking. Here in the US today, I have never been pickpocketed nor
    >> known anyone who has. But from reading RTE, it sounds like a
    >> not-infrequent occurrence there, and I would like to use his technique
    >> so any tips would be appreciated.
    >I think you're better off just protecting your valuables. If you caught
    >the thief, would you subject him/her to the same thing you described
    >above? If you would, then I think you're a sick individual, and I'd be
    >inclined to say the same if you left such a trap. You _might_ find
    >yourself in legal trouble too- but I don't know much about that.

I could understand gaining some satisfaction by loading such a come
on wallet with some nasty sticky stuff or dye or something that would
do no harm to the miscreant but would be embarrassing and hard to get
rid of. That is as far as I would go.

Rita <[email protected]> wrote:

[]
    > I could understand gaining some satisfaction by loading such a come
    > on wallet with some nasty sticky stuff or dye or something that would
    > do no harm to the miscreant but would be embarrassing and hard to get
    > rid of. That is as far as I would go.

When I read the post, I also wondered about one of those little buzzers
that people use to play handshake tricks with! ATC, I think the best
satisfaction is in looking after your belongings to the extent that you
thwart potential robbers.

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Rita wrote:

    > My d-i-l had her purse stolen at the LA airport -- it was
    > in the baby stroller and someone made a big fuss admiring the
    > baby and voila, the purse was gone. And she was moving between
    > cities at the time and had her jewelry in her purse for safe
    > keeping!

Leaving valuables in a baby stroller is considered "safe keeping"?

    > She also had a wallet taken from her purse when she put it down
    > in an Ikea store in Europe while she was at the checkout counter.
    >
    > I sorta gave up giving advice on avoiding theft at that point:)

She should attach a note reading "Help yourself!" to that purse, I think.

... Martin