Michael H

How foolish and silly aren´t those russians with their visa policy?
They continously lose income when tourists with good reasons decide to
travel somewhere else where there is less hazzle and no visa
requirements.

Western countries have no choice but to demand visa from all russians,
since lot´s of russians would love to emigrate to almost any western
country. Therefore western countries have legitimate reasons for
demanding visa from russians.

The russians childishly reply with visa requirements against those
western countries, apparently out of spite/vengefulness or something
equally low spirited. Ignoring the fact that they certainly have no
problems with illegal immigration from western countries. Or do they
wish to pretend that they do?

If it was the act of some kids or so I would have more understanding
towards it, but this is the results of decisions made by people,
diplomats and politicians, who are supposed to be adults.

During the cold war they might have had legitimate security reasons,
but today. It is simply ridiculous.

Padraig Breathnach

[email protected] (Michael H) wrote:

    >How foolish and silly aren´t those russians with their visa policy?
...
    >During the cold war they might have had legitimate security reasons,
    >but today. It is simply ridiculous.

But do they ask: are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the
Communist Party?

PB

Casey

    > How foolish and silly aren´t those russians with their visa policy?
    > They continously lose income when tourists with good reasons decide
    > to travel somewhere else where there is less hazzle and no visa
    > requirements.

Obtaining a Russian visa is not difficult at all. You are just a whiner.
Once you know the rules, all it takes is $100 or so for the invitation
and visa fee. You are the rich, ugly American, so money should be
no object for you. Should the world kiss your ass because you are
an American?

    > Western countries have no choice but to demand visa from all russians,
    > since lot´s of russians would love to emigrate to almost any western
    > country. Therefore western countries have legitimate reasons for
    > demanding visa from russians.

The world works as follows: countries agree to make the visa process
equally painful for citizens of both countries.


Casey

paulfriedman

"Casey" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > > How foolish and silly aren´t those russians with their visa policy?
    > > They continously lose income when tourists with good reasons decide
    > > to travel somewhere else where there is less hazzle and no visa
    > > requirements.
    > Obtaining a Russian visa is not difficult at all. You are just a whiner.
    > Once you know the rules, all it takes is $100 or so for the invitation
    > and visa fee. You are the rich, ugly American, so money should be
    > no object for you. Should the world kiss your ass because you are
    > an American?
    > > Western countries have no choice but to demand visa from all russians,
    > > since lot´s of russians would love to emigrate to almost any western
    > > country. Therefore western countries have legitimate reasons for
    > > demanding visa from russians.
    > The world works as follows: countries agree to make the visa process
    > equally painful for citizens of both countries.
    > Casey

Exactly. Turkey charges $100US for a visa becasue the U.S. charges taht
amount to Turkish citizens (just another example). The U.S. government also
reserves the right to holkd non-citizens in jail forever without trial
whenever Ashcroft's boys decide to do so (with "oversight" from a
politically appointed judge). I don't think we U.S. citizens have a right to
complain about a little paperwork and $100US.

Paul

Frank Cascio

You don't get it. The pasport control personnel are looking for a bribe.
It's quite common in Russia, part of daily life. Put a folded $10.00 or
preferebly a $20.00 US in your passport nest to your photo. Works like a
charm.

"Michael H" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > How foolish and silly aren´t those russians with their visa policy?
    > They continously lose income when tourists with good reasons decide to
    > travel somewhere else where there is less hazzle and no visa
    > requirements.
    > Western countries have no choice but to demand visa from all russians,
    > since lot´s of russians would love to emigrate to almost any western
    > country. Therefore western countries have legitimate reasons for
    > demanding visa from russians.
    > The russians childishly reply with visa requirements against those
    > western countries, apparently out of spite/vengefulness or something
    > equally low spirited. Ignoring the fact that they certainly have no
    > problems with illegal immigration from western countries. Or do they
    > wish to pretend that they do?
    > If it was the act of some kids or so I would have more understanding
    > towards it, but this is the results of decisions made by people,
    > diplomats and politicians, who are supposed to be adults.
    > During the cold war they might have had legitimate security reasons,
    > but today. It is simply ridiculous.

Devil

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:46:13 +0000, Frank Cascio wrote:

    > You don't get it. The pasport control personnel are looking for a bribe.
    > It's quite common in Russia, part of daily life. Put a folded $10.00 or
    > preferebly a $20.00 US in your passport nest to your photo. Works like a
    > charm.

More precisely, consulates live off consular fees.

Mason Barge

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:46:13 -0400, "Frank Cascio"
wrote:

    >You don't get it. The pasport control personnel are looking for a bribe.
    >It's quite common in Russia, part of daily life. Put a folded $10.00 or
    >preferebly a $20.00 US in your passport nest to your photo. Works like a
    >charm.

This is some kind of joke?

You have to register your visa and you also need it to exit the country. Want
to see an immigration service that will throw your butt in jail for an
irregularity? Try exiting Russia without a visa.
--
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
- Abraham Lincoln

Giovanni Drogo

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Mason Barge wrote:

    > You have to register your visa and you also need it to exit the
    > country. Try exiting Russia without a visa.

Oh yes. I do not remember whether it was still USSR or already Russia,
but the following happened to us (a bunch of astronomers on a business
trip).

We were strolling in a metro station underpass going from Arbat to
Kremlin, when one of my colleagues was surrounded by gipsy kids who
stole him money, passport and plane ticket. It was Sunday noon. We had a
plane at 18:00.

We were accompanied by a very kind Armenian journalist to the small
police station in the metro station (a 2 square meter office with even a
little jail).

We asked the policeman to call our hotel, and he was very kind, he would
have let us phone anywhere, but he had no phone directory, and the
Academy of Science hotel was not on the list of hotels he had. So some
of us went to the hotel to meet the Academy representative, while I
remained with the robbed colleague. We phoned the italian embassy, I
asked about the scientific attache' (since our boss, which was not with
us, knew him) and we managed to get a functionary saying that if we came
there with : (a) a copy of the declaration of the theft to the police ;
(b) some photographs, they could issue a replacement passport. He even
told us where to get photographs on Sunday.

When the police officer came, he wanted to take us to the police station
to type the declaration, but I told him an handwritten one was OK, so he
gave us that.

We than went to the hotel, The Academy representative told us to go the
airport (he had already notified the airline), he would carry my
colleague to the embassy.

We went to the airport and told about the thing at the check in desk.
They said they were informed and ready to let us colleague on the plane
if the came on time.

For some reason at the time the check in was after a first document
check, but before another passport check.

The flight was announced, still no sign of our colleague.

We board and ask the chief steward.

We take off ... the chief steward comes and says that my collegue had
come to the airport, had checked in, his baggage was loaded on board,
and then has to be unloaded because of difficulties with the frontier
police.

The day after in the morning I phoned Alitalia to know if my colleagues
was booked on the flight of the next day. They say they cannot give this
information.

I phone the italian frontier police office at Milano Linate (my
colleague had to continue for another italian destination) and ask if,
in case he comes, I can meet him in the transfer hall. They ask me if I
am a "functionary". I say I work for the National Research Council. They
say, ok, bring your badge and ask for the officer on duty.

In the afternoon I phone Alitalia again, and this time the clerk tells
me "I could not tell you but your colleague is on the plane". I go home,
check the arrival time on Televideo, then I put a suit on, grab an empty
briefcase, to assume the look of a functionary :-) and go to the
airport.

I enter the frontier police office, do not see any indication of
"officer on duty" so I walk into the chief office. I am greeted very
kindly and the chief calls a policeman and orders him to escort me in
the arrival hall. While going there. the policeman asks me "but did
you know doctor So-and-so already ?", meaning his chief. Quite amusing.

The plane arrives and I see my colleagues waving his passport and
ticket. He explains to me what happened.

- he went to the embassy and got a new passport with urgent
procedure

- he went to the airport and did the check in

- but the frontier police refused to let him depart because there
was no entrance visa on his new passport (of course !)

- so he slept one night in Moscow, and the day after had to go to
the Foreign Ministry to get an emergency exit visa (he enjoyed the
trip with a service car of the embassy)

- during the night his phone rang, it was the police officer who said
that they had found his passport and ticket (no money) on one of
the gipsy kids which was arrested in the afternoon when they tried
the same trick with a British diplomat (but this one had body
guards ...)

- I believe he had to get the emergency exit visa anyhow, because
his original visa expired on the original departure date and he
was one day late

Amusing, isn't it ? All is well what ends well.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] is a newsreading account used by more persons to
avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected.
Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so.

Devil

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:04:37 +0200, Giovanni Drogo wrote:

    > On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Mason Barge wrote:
    >
    >> You have to register your visa and you also need it to exit the
    >> country. Try exiting Russia without a visa.
    >
    > Oh yes. I do not remember whether it was still USSR or already Russia,
    > but the following happened to us (a bunch of astronomers on a business
    > trip).

Actually, Russian visa procedure is simply unchanged from the soviet
times.

    > We were strolling in a metro station underpass going from Arbat to
    > Kremlin, when one of my colleagues was surrounded by gipsy kids who
    > stole him money, passport and plane ticket. It was Sunday noon. We had a
    > plane at 18:00.
    >
    > We were accompanied by a very kind Armenian journalist to the small
    > police station in the metro station (a 2 square meter office with even a
    > little jail).
    >
    > We asked the policeman to call our hotel, and he was very kind, he would
    > have let us phone anywhere, but he had no phone directory, and the
    > Academy of Science hotel was not on the list of hotels he had. So some
    > of us went to the hotel to meet the Academy representative, while I
    > remained with the robbed colleague. We phoned the italian embassy, I
    > asked about the scientific attache' (since our boss, which was not with
    > us, knew him) and we managed to get a functionary saying that if we came
    > there with : (a) a copy of the declaration of the theft to the police ;
    > (b) some photographs, they could issue a replacement passport. He even
    > told us where to get photographs on Sunday.
    >
    > When the police officer came, he wanted to take us to the police station
    > to type the declaration, but I told him an handwritten one was OK, so he
    > gave us that.
    >
    > We than went to the hotel, The Academy representative told us to go the
    > airport (he had already notified the airline), he would carry my
    > colleague to the embassy.
    >
    > We went to the airport and told about the thing at the check in desk.
    > They said they were informed and ready to let us colleague on the plane
    > if the came on time.
    >
    > For some reason at the time the check in was after a first document
    > check, but before another passport check.
    >
    > The flight was announced, still no sign of our colleague.
    >
    > We board and ask the chief steward.
    >
    > We take off ... the chief steward comes and says that my collegue had
    > come to the airport, had checked in, his baggage was loaded on board,
    > and then has to be unloaded because of difficulties with the frontier
    > police.
    >
    > The day after in the morning I phoned Alitalia to know if my colleagues
    > was booked on the flight of the next day. They say they cannot give this
    > information.
    >
    > I phone the italian frontier police office at Milano Linate (my
    > colleague had to continue for another italian destination) and ask if,
    > in case he comes, I can meet him in the transfer hall. They ask me if I
    > am a "functionary". I say I work for the National Research Council. They
    > say, ok, bring your badge and ask for the officer on duty.
    >
    > In the afternoon I phone Alitalia again, and this time the clerk tells
    > me "I could not tell you but your colleague is on the plane". I go home,
    > check the arrival time on Televideo, then I put a suit on, grab an empty
    > briefcase, to assume the look of a functionary :-) and go to the
    > airport.
    >
    > I enter the frontier police office, do not see any indication of
    > "officer on duty" so I walk into the chief office. I am greeted very
    > kindly and the chief calls a policeman and orders him to escort me in
    > the arrival hall. While going there. the policeman asks me "but did
    > you know doctor So-and-so already ?", meaning his chief. Quite amusing.
    >
    > The plane arrives and I see my colleagues waving his passport and
    > ticket. He explains to me what happened.
    >
    > - he went to the embassy and got a new passport with urgent
    > procedure
    >
    > - he went to the airport and did the check in
    >
    > - but the frontier police refused to let him depart because there
    > was no entrance visa on his new passport (of course !)
    >
    > - so he slept one night in Moscow, and the day after had to go to
    > the Foreign Ministry to get an emergency exit visa (he enjoyed the
    > trip with a service car of the embassy)
    >
    > - during the night his phone rang, it was the police officer who said
    > that they had found his passport and ticket (no money) on one of
    > the gipsy kids which was arrested in the afternoon when they tried
    > the same trick with a British diplomat (but this one had body
    > guards ...)
    >
    > - I believe he had to get the emergency exit visa anyhow, because
    > his original visa expired on the original departure date and he
    > was one day late
    >
    > Amusing, isn't it ? All is well what ends well.

My daughter had a similar experience in Poland in 1998. Passport stolen,
needed not only a new passport but a new Polish visa. Except, her
passport was never recovered, and we got stuck there for three more days
than planned.

David Johnstone

I feel that the OP has a valid point.

I accept that a contribution to the state coffers
is reasonable from tourists, but why not simply
issue visas at the border to all comers in exchange
for the $100, as do so many other poorer countries,
for example Egypt?

The whole process *is* a big hassle, apart from the
expense, for the following reasons.

It takes a long time, unless you pay urgency supplements,
especially since you have to first buy the invitation and
then the visa, or go through an agency.
You have to submit your passport in *original*, which means
no other international trips in that time and of course the
risk of your passport getting lost.
Maximum 28 days stay and single entry, unless many more $$$.
You have to plan and submit your itinerary in advance.
Most difficult: You have to register with the OVIR and get
your visa stamped within 3 working days of arrival, with the
threat of dire consequences for failing to do so. A problem
even for Russians.

I think the real reasons for maintaining this system after the
collapse of communism lie elsewhere though.

David




"Casey" wrote in message news:...
    > > How foolish and silly aren´t those russians with their visa policy?
    > > They continously lose income when tourists with good reasons decide
    > > to travel somewhere else where there is less hazzle and no visa
    > > requirements.
    >
    > Obtaining a Russian visa is not difficult at all. You are just a whiner.
    > Once you know the rules, all it takes is $100 or so for the invitation
    > and visa fee. You are the rich, ugly American, so money should be
    > no object for you. Should the world kiss your ass because you are
    > an American?
    >
    > > Western countries have no choice but to demand visa from all russians,
    > > since lot´s of russians would love to emigrate to almost any western
    > > country. Therefore western countries have legitimate reasons for
    > > demanding visa from russians.
    >
    > The world works as follows: countries agree to make the visa process
    > equally painful for citizens of both countries.
    >
    >
    > Casey