On 22/10/05 4:23, in article
[email protected], "Casey"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >>> Far more people are killed
    >>> by criminals in the USA than by cops and military combined.
    >>
    >> And they are prosecuted.
    >
    > The ones that are caught. I noticed you wrote prosecuted rather than
    > convicted, and that is quite true. Unfortunately many of those killers
    > are not convicted. OJ and quite a few other celebrities come to mind.
    >

Don't look at the exceptions. Homicides in America or Western Europe have
the highest clearance rates of any crime. They are dropping in the US,
however (" 2002, 64% of all homicides were cleared compared to 79% in 1976).
Generally over 70% of the murderers are identified.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/cleared.htm

Western Europe generally has fewer homicides and high clearance rates for
those that occur. Japan had a 94% clearance rate in 2003.

As for prosecuted, I don¹t have those figures, I have seen them somewhere.
But I think the figure is about 50% of the total murders in the US.
That might seem low but is very high compared to other crimes. As for
recidivism, released murderers have a low rate. Something like 95% of the
new murders are by people who had not been arrested for murder before. In
the US one has a greater chance of being murdered by a former car thief than
a former murderer. All this information can be found in one form or
another at the department of justice site, www.ojp.usdoj.gov

    > As for recidivism, released murderers have a low rate. Something
    > like 95% of the new murders are by people who had not been
    > arrested for murder before.

This is because murderers tend to receive long prison sentences and
they are simply too old to kill again. This will not show up in official
statistics. Another fact is that serious criminals - those that commit
felonies - tend to keep on committing felonies. That is why many
states have passed "three strikes" laws, where felons who commit
a third felon with two previous felon convictions often receive a life
sentence. These criminals have demonstrated that they are incapable
of living within the straight and narrow, and deserve to live in prison.
Another statistic anomaly is that most murder victims are acquainted
with their killer. Many people misinterpret this fact to mean that
most murders involve family members. But the reality is that many
of these murders involve drug buyers and drug sellers, and other
criminal relationships.

Casey

Casey <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > As for recidivism, released murderers have a low rate. Something
    > > like 95% of the new murders are by people who had not been
    > > arrested for murder before.
    >
    > This is because murderers tend to receive long prison sentences and
    > they are simply too old to kill again. This will not show up in official
    > statistics. Another fact is that serious criminals - those that commit
    > felonies - tend to keep on committing felonies. That is why many
    > states have passed "three strikes" laws, where felons who commit
    > a third felon with two previous felon convictions often receive a life
    > sentence. These criminals have demonstrated that they are incapable
    > of living within the straight and narrow, and deserve to live in prison.
    > Another statistic anomaly is that most murder victims are acquainted
    > with their killer. Many people misinterpret this fact to mean that
    > most murders involve family members. But the reality is that many
    > of these murders involve drug buyers and drug sellers, and other
    > criminal relationships.

That's true of men, who admittedly account for most homocide victims.
There's a big difference in statistics though when it comes to gender.
30% of women who are murdered are killed by a boyfriend or husband.
Another 10% by a family member. With children of course, the number is
staggering. The majority of children are killed by a parent(s).

--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org

Casey <[email protected]> wrote:

    > That is why many
    > states have passed "three strikes" laws, where felons who commit
    > a third felon with two previous felon convictions often receive a life
    > sentence.

Out of interest, what thriced felon will take somebody in prison? I
mean, what is the limit for benign felony?

Are the felonies you're talking about equivalent to our "crimes" in
France as opposed to "délits"?

S.
--
remplacez "lesptt" par "laposte" pour me joindre
substitute "laposte" for "lesptt" to reach me

    >> That is why many states have passed "three strikes" laws, where
    >> felons who commit a third felon with two previous felon convictions
    >> often receive a life sentence.
    > Out of interest, what thriced felon will take somebody in prison? I
    > mean, what is the limit for benign felony?

I believe that any felony will constitute the third strike. In my opinion
this is fair. If a criminal knows that committing a third felony will
result in a life sentence, then we should have no pity on him..

    > Are the felonies you're talking about equivalent to our "crimes" in
    > France as opposed to "délits"?

I cannot say. Felonies in the USA are serious crimes like murder,
rape, armed robbery, kidnapping, embezzlement, etc. Spitting on
the sidewalk is not a felony.

Casey

On 22/10/05 16:09, in article
[email protected], "Casey"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >> As for recidivism, released murderers have a low rate. Something
    >> like 95% of the new murders are by people who had not been
    >> arrested for murder before.
    >
    > This is because murderers tend to receive long prison sentences and
    > they are simply too old to kill again.

The average sentence for murder in the US is 90 months, less than 10
years. A 25 yr old, on the average, will be out by 35. The
"murdering age" is between 18-25.

Next, murder has a broad category of meanings and degrees. The victims
often know the murderer and some have a close relationship. Alcohol and
drugs play an important part.

    > This will not show up in official statistics.

I recommend the department of Justice's recidivism report. It is
dated (1994) but gives official statistics in this area.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/rpr94.pdf .

< Another fact is that serious criminals - those that commit
    > felonies - tend to keep on committing felonies.

Serious criminals get caught and spend a lot of time in prison,
demonstrating their failure at their chosen profession!

The ones we know give up as they get older and on getting out
of prison take a regular job.

    > That is why many states have passed "three strikes" laws, where felons who
    > commit a third felon with two previous felon convictions often receive a life
    > sentence.

The notorious nature of the "three strikes laws" are well known. The
problem is violent crimes. Over punishing minor crimes is cost ineffective
to society. "The average burglary lasts only four minutes and less than
$1000.00 of merchandise is taken." But the cost of incarceration is
$20,000 a year. Life for a 30 yr old would cost society between
$500,000 and a million dollars. One has less choice with violent prisoners
but the war on drugs has produced a huge jump in the number of people
in prison. "Possession of more than 5 grams of cocaine can trigger an
"intent to distribute" penalty of 10 to 16 years in prison."

The issue is how "recoverable" in the criminal. Can we save money by
not sending them to prison for life or exceedingly long sentences.

    > These criminals have demonstrated that they are incapable
    > of living within the straight and narrow, and deserve to live in prison.

Each generation has a different view of prisons, right now we are in a
tough period. In the US this has generated what is now called the
"prison-industrial" complex, with over 600,000 prison personnel employed
and over 2 million people in US prison.

We were visiting the prison at Caen, yesterday. We are involved in
aiding a person in prison, about to be released after over 11 years in
prison.