I'm planning a trip to Italy this coming April/May and in looking into
the train schedules I am wondering what the difference is between 1st class
and 2nd class. Better seats? Is it worth the money for 1st class or perhaps
only on longer trips?
Thanks
Dennis

    > I'm planning a trip to Italy this coming April/May and in looking into
    > the train schedules I am wondering what the difference is between 1st
class
    > and 2nd class. Better seats? Is it worth the money for 1st class or
perhaps
    > only on longer trips?

It depends upon the train. On the fast, long-distance ES trains 2nd class
is perfectly fine--you may as well save the dough. On all other trains
that are not crowded, 2nd class is o.k. too, though in 1st class the seats
can be cushier, particularly on IC trains. But on trains that are crowded
and involve journey times of more than an hour or so, 1st class can be
REALLY relaxing and pleasurable in comparison to sardine-can sitting or even
standing in aisles.

Part of it depends on whether you want to use train time as dreamy unwinding
and relaxation time or not. If so, 1st class can be really nice, and it's
not that much more expensive, though it really isn't worth it on ES trains.

ds wrote:
    >
    > I'm planning a trip to Italy this coming April/May and in looking into
    > the train schedules I am wondering what the difference is between 1st class
    > and 2nd class. Better seats? Is it worth the money for 1st class or perhaps
    > only on longer trips?
    > Thanks
    > Dennis

Dennis,

For tips on using the trains see my page at
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm

John Bermont
--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------

"ds" writes:

    >I'm planning a trip to Italy this coming April/May and in looking into
    >the train schedules I am wondering what the difference is between 1st class
    >and 2nd class. Better seats? Is it worth the money for 1st class or perhaps
    >only on longer trips?

While the seats may be marginally more comfortable in first class, I don't
think that's the main reason that someone would pay the extra. In most cases
it would be to get away from the crowds.

So it's worth checking out in advance whether the train you travel on is
likely to be full in second class, leaving you either jammed up against
someone else's legs - or without a seat at all - if you can. If you've
got the time, and you're in a town for a number of days, maybe take a look
at the same train on an earlier day and see how many people are on it, as
it leaves the station.

In Italy, I'd probably consider first class in extreme circumstances (having
seen how crowded second class was on a certain Naples to Rome train). In
northern Europe I'd never consider first class.

Paul.


--
Paul Dwerryhouse
Amsterdam, The Netherlands (X) Melbourne, Australia ( )

ds wrote:
    >
    > I'm planning a trip to Italy this coming April/May and in looking into
    > the train schedules I am wondering what the difference is between 1st class
    > and 2nd class. Better seats? Is it worth the money for 1st class or perhaps
    > only on longer trips?

I live in Italy and travel often by train. I personally always travel
2nd class unless I can't find a seat there. 1st class has the advantage
that it's almost never full. If I can't find a seat in 2nd class, I pay
the additional cost for the 1st class ticket, plus a penalty for
upgrading on the train.

The seats in 1st class are marginally larger and maybe marginally more
padded. The difference is so slight that I have occasionally taken a
seat in 1st class, thinking it was 2nd class.

I would rather pay extra to travel on an ES (Eurostar Italia) train. 2nd
class on these trains beats 1st class on the IC trains, in my opinion.

Barbara

Paul Dwerryhouse wrote:
    >
    > "ds" writes:
    >
    > >I'm planning a trip to Italy this coming April/May and in looking into
    > >the train schedules I am wondering what the difference is between 1st class
    > >and 2nd class. Better seats? Is it worth the money for 1st class or perhaps
    > >only on longer trips?
    >
    > While the seats may be marginally more comfortable in first class, I don't
    > think that's the main reason that someone would pay the extra. In most cases
    > it would be to get away from the crowds.
    >
    > So it's worth checking out in advance whether the train you travel on is
    > likely to be full in second class, leaving you either jammed up against
    > someone else's legs - or without a seat at all - if you can. If you've
    > got the time, and you're in a town for a number of days, maybe take a look
    > at the same train on an earlier day and see how many people are on it, as
    > it leaves the station.

As I noted in another post, you can decide to upgrade once you're on the
train if 2nd class is too crowded. You pay a penalty for upgrading on
the train, but it's certainly more convenient than going to the station
the day before to scope out the trains. Actually, if you're travelling
on a Friday, the conditions on Thursday wouldn't be a very good
predictor.

Barbara

    >ds wrote:
    >>
    >> I'm planning a trip to Italy this coming April/May and in looking into
    >> the train schedules I am wondering what the difference is between 1st class
    >> and 2nd class. Better seats? Is it worth the money for 1st class or perhaps
    >> only on longer trips?
    >> Thanks
    >> Dennis
    >Dennis,
    >For tips on using the trains see my page at
    >http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm
    >John Bermont
    >--
    >------------------------------------------------------
    > * * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
    > http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
    >------------------------------------------------------


Dennis,

First class is to be recommended for

-Businessmen or -women, whose employer authorizes firsz class travel (still cheaper than by
car), or others with the necessary ressources willing to spend it for a little additional comfort:
sometimes, FC also has plugs for PC and other electrical devices
-Oversize people, that don't fit into a second-class seat
-Travel during peak periods, especially in poorer countries, where trains can get very
crowded in 2nd class
-peole that believe in class-difference (knighthood, tennis professionals or polo players,
investment bankers, lawyers and other impostors)

For all others, second class travel in Europe should be OK, particularly when traveling outside
rush hours (Friay and Sunday evenings, or the start of a vacation period are worst).

RH
-

As a mother of two living in Switzerland without a car, I travel by train A LOT, and have never yet travelled in first class (although I didn't know you could upgrade on the train- we may try that the next time we can't find a seat and end up standing in the ski room!). But no one has mentioned the fact that you can reserve seats in second class- when we travel more than 2 hours we always do this to assure seats together.

FWIW, my ex-parents in law took the kids by train first class and my daughters didn't even notice a difference.

Safe travels

Liz

sit in first class if you want to sit with a bunch of snobs who won't talk
to you.
regards, Mark Holden

"ds" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I'm planning a trip to Italy this coming April/May and in looking into
    > the train schedules I am wondering what the difference is between 1st
class
    > and 2nd class. Better seats? Is it worth the money for 1st class or
perhaps
    > only on longer trips?
    > Thanks
    > Dennis

Thanks everybody for the responses. Sounds like unless you
have money to burn, second class is the way to go -reserving
an on-train upgrade to first if it is too crowded.
-Dennis
"John Bermont" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > ds wrote:
    > >
    > > I'm planning a trip to Italy this coming April/May and in looking into
    > > the train schedules I am wondering what the difference is between 1st
class
    > > and 2nd class. Better seats? Is it worth the money for 1st class or
perhaps
    > > only on longer trips?
    > > Thanks
    > > Dennis
    > Dennis,
    > For tips on using the trains see my page at
    > http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm
    > John Bermont
    > --
    > ------------------------------------------------------
    > * * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
    > http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
    > ------------------------------------------------------

"ds" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Thanks everybody for the responses. Sounds like unless you
    > have money to burn, second class is the way to go -reserving
    > an on-train upgrade to first if it is too crowded.
    > -Dennis
    > "John Bermont" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > ds wrote:
    > > >
    > > > I'm planning a trip to Italy this coming April/May and in looking into
    > > > the train schedules I am wondering what the difference is between 1st
    > class
    > > > and 2nd class. Better seats? Is it worth the money for 1st class or
    > perhaps
    > > > only on longer trips?
    > > > Thanks
    > > > Dennis
    > >
    > > Dennis,
    > >
    > > For tips on using the trains see my page at
    > > http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm
    > >
    > > John Bermont
    > > --
    > > ------------------------------------------------------
    > > * * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
    > > http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
    > > ------------------------------------------------------

A couple of summers ago, we bought first class tickets from Milan to Venice
and found when we got on the train, all the seats were taken by people smart
enough to reserve seats--there's a difference, if you can believe that. We
ended up riding in 2nd class on a boiling hot day for I don't know about 3
hours or so.. Felt pretty stupid.
BTW, the smart thing would have been to rent a car since there were 3 of us.
Just stupid. You gotta think those things through before you go, I guess.

Bruce

upthemountain wrote:
    >
    > As a mother of two living in Switzerland without a car, I travel by
    > train A LOT, and have never yet travelled in first class (although I
    > didn't know you could upgrade on the train- we may try that the next
    > time we can't find a seat and end up standing in the ski room!). But
    > no one has mentioned the fact that you can reserve seats in second
    > class- when we travel more than 2 hours we always do this to assure
    > seats together.

I have upgraded on the train in Italy, but I don't want to speak for
other countries. The original question was about Italy. However, it
should be the same thing as getting on the train without a ticket, which
in most countries means you pay the fare plus a penalty. The only
difference is that they should credit you with the amount you paid for
the second class ticket.

I usually don't reserve, even in 2nd class. However, on a really long
trip, with several people travelling together I might do so. Not all
trains, however, have the possibility of reserving seats.

Barbara

Bruce Bowe wrote:

    > A couple of summers ago, we bought first class tickets from Milan to Venice
    > and found when we got on the train, all the seats were taken by people smart
    > enough to reserve seats--there's a difference, if you can believe that. We
    > ended up riding in 2nd class on a boiling hot day for I don't know about 3
    > hours or so.. Felt pretty stupid.
    > BTW, the smart thing would have been to rent a car since there were 3 of us.
    > Just stupid. You gotta think those things through before you go, I guess.

In Italy, the trains that have air conditioning have it in both 1st and
2nd class. These are mostly the Eurostar trains. Therefore, you can't
blame the heat on the fact that you were in 2nd class.

Eurostar Italia trains have air conditioning.

Barbara

    > > As a mother of two living in Switzerland without a car, I travel by
    > > train A LOT, and have never yet travelled in first class (although I
    > > didn't know you could upgrade on the train- we may try that the next
    > > time we can't find a seat and end up standing in the ski room!). But
    > > no one has mentioned the fact that you can reserve seats in second
    > > class- when we travel more than 2 hours we always do this to assure
    > > seats together.
    > I have upgraded on the train in Italy, but I don't want to speak for
    > other countries. The original question was about Italy. However, it
    > should be the same thing as getting on the train without a ticket, which
    > in most countries means you pay the fare plus a penalty. The only
    > difference is that they should credit you with the amount you paid for
    > the second class ticket.

In Austria you don't actually have to have a ticket when you board, so you
can buy th eticket on the train plus a small "administration fee".
This also applies to upgrading to 1st class. If you have a 2nd-class ticket
you'll get to pay just the difference.
Tim.

couple of summers ago, we bought first class tickets from Milan to Venice
    > > and found when we got on the train, all the seats were taken by people
smart
    > > enough to reserve seats--there's a difference, if you can believe that.
We
    > > ended up riding in 2nd class on a boiling hot day for I don't know about
3
    > > hours or so.. Felt pretty stupid.
    > > BTW, the smart thing would have been to rent a car since there were 3 of
us.
    > > Just stupid. You gotta think those things through before you go, I
guess.

And probably the car wouldn't have had A/C. Then you'd still be stupid, but
there's be no-one else to see it. ;-)
Tim.