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Package or DIY?
Regular participants in this group might be aware that Herself and I
take a number of short-break holidays each year. Sometimes we buy a package, and sometimes we put things together for ourselves. When I am tempted by a package, I look at the deal and check how much it would cost to book the components myself (usually just flight and accommodation). In only one case that I checked out could I get a better deal that way. I might do better by being flexible on accommodation, but I find that the travel company I most often use is good on hotels, and confidence that the accommodation will be good is worth something. Other advantages of buying a package are convenience (a minor point, to my mind) and the legal responsibility of the tour operator if things go wrong (in the EU, consumer protection law on package holidays is strong -- but I am not particularly litigious, so it is a consideration to which I do not give a great deal of thought. Yesterday I read a piece in "Consumer Choice", a publication of the Consumer Association of Ireland (something like "Which?" in the UK) which concluded that it is almost always cheaper to go the DIY route, and sometimes more than 30% cheaper. I am a little suspicious of the piece because of the way in which some tour operators in Ireland calculate their headline prices: oddly, you can buy some packages more cheaply than the published price if you choose dates with good availability of bargain flights. So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? -- PB The return address has been MUNGED |
Re: Package or DIY?
Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
[] > So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, > or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? I've never done a package from the UK. The only time in the past that I took a package was on a trip to Egypt (so not in the realm of r.t.e) and that was because we got a heavily subsidised travel agent discount. I will be interested in the responses of others too. Where I have _considered_ a package was to various mediterranean islands, as the flights alone can often be much cheaper than when booking yourself. (We figure we'd just stay somewhere else if the hotel was rubbish.) -- David Horne- www.davidhorne.net usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk |
Re: Package or DIY?
"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... > Regular participants in this group might be aware that Herself and I > take a number of short-break holidays each year. > So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, > or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? I have taken packages in the past in Europe when it was much cheaper mainly because it was the only way of getting cheap air fares, I havent done this for several years although I do sometimes buy fly-drive deals which include just the airfare and car rental, in fact I'm off on one of these in June although its to Canada and not Europe. Keith ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Re: Package or DIY?
> So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages,
> or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? I do a mixture of both, last week I was in Goa on a package, its the convienience that makes it worthwhile, nothing to think about and usually a fair price. For European short breaks I almost always put it together myself based around a cheap flight. |
Re: Package or DIY?
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:00:20 +0100, Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]>
wrote: >Regular participants in this group might be aware that Herself and I >take a number of short-break holidays each year. >Sometimes we buy a package, and sometimes we put things together for >ourselves. >When I am tempted by a package, I look at the deal and check how much >it would cost to book the components myself (usually just flight and >accommodation). In only one case that I checked out could I get a >better deal that way. I might do better by being flexible on >accommodation, but I find that the travel company I most often use is >good on hotels, and confidence that the accommodation will be good is >worth something. Other advantages of buying a package are convenience >(a minor point, to my mind) and the legal responsibility of the tour >operator if things go wrong (in the EU, consumer protection law on >package holidays is strong -- but I am not particularly litigious, so >it is a consideration to which I do not give a great deal of thought. >Yesterday I read a piece in "Consumer Choice", a publication of the >Consumer Association of Ireland (something like "Which?" in the UK) >which concluded that it is almost always cheaper to go the DIY route, >and sometimes more than 30% cheaper. I am a little suspicious of the >piece because of the way in which some tour operators in Ireland >calculate their headline prices: oddly, you can buy some packages more >cheaply than the published price if you choose dates with good >availability of bargain flights. >So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, >or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? I have done only two package deals, one to London from NY for 3 nights with a room at the Holiday Inn in Bloomsbury and another from NY City to Washington DC over Thanksgiving for four nights. In each case the airfare was very low on a per person rate. They were last minute deals booked on the Internet. The London trip was in April and I don't think one would find comparable prices in full season. The London trip was $421 per person and the DC trip $240 per person. Airfare from NY City to DC is normally $200 or more per person RT and the train is about the same. I think these "deals" pop up in off seasons, never in full tourist season. And they don't last long -- you have to be ready to go at a moment's notice, as it were. |
Re: Package or DIY?
"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... > Regular participants in this group might be aware that Herself and I > So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, > or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? I never took a package (though I'm thinking of taking one to St. Petersburg this year, I do not feel confident with the paperwork), mostly because what I want from traveling (lots of roaming around) does not come in packages. From what I've seen of packages, they seem a good deal if you want what they offer (three-star hotels, flights at peak times, lots of food, rental car, whatever). But when I travel, I need few of those things, and can do with cheaper alternatives. inge |
Re: Package or DIY?
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:18:17 +0200, "Ingeborg Denner" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message >news:[email protected].. . >> Regular participants in this group might be aware that Herself and I >> So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, >> or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? >I never took a package (though I'm thinking of taking one to St. Petersburg >this year, I do not feel confident with the paperwork), mostly because what >I want from traveling (lots of roaming around) does not come in packages. >From what I've seen of packages, they seem a good deal if you want what they >offer (three-star hotels, flights at peak times, lots of food, rental car, >whatever). But when I travel, I need few of those things, and can do with >cheaper alternatives. >inge When I travel alone I never look at package deals. They are always much more expensive than I can do on my own. They add on a hefty charge as a single supplement. With two people traveling, a very few really "good deals" can be found if one checks regularly on the Internet and is willing to take off on a moment's notice. but I would never book a package that included touring as well as airfare and hotel. I have no interest at all in being part of a group. And the good deals are almost always for short term stays. One can do far better shopping around for cheap hotels for longer trips. Especially for the single traveler. |
Re: Package or DIY?
I tend to make the decision based on the amount of travel. If I am
going to a single city or sites around a single city I will usally go DIY. However if it is a multi-location trip with alot of travel between locations then bundled is the way to go. The reason for that is that if I am going to alot of locations I am going to be spending alot of time getting hotels, waiting for transportation, find ways to store my stuff,etc. With a bundled trip that is all worked out. |
Re: Package or DIY?
Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
> So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, > or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? I always put together my own travel from scratch, whether for a weekend or for a month or two. Partly because I save a lot of money (more than you might think since I regularly mix in hostels and such rather than hotels) and because I just plain love the planning part. I took a two week package tour last May for the first time in my life in Italy because I was going with a group from my church. It was great to have all the logistics taken care of but really, really expensive. With a really large (36 of us) group of friends it was the only way to go. -- Julie ********** I could be wrong. My experience is limited to my experience. Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm |
Re: Package or DIY?
sadly (for the tour operators) I have not booked a 'package' for ages. it's
so much fun planning your trip and making enquiries using this tool. I also enjoy looking for cheap flights and sometimes will go to a destination just because it's easy to fly. forums are sometimes excellent source of local savvy. next trip is to Spain courtesy of a 99 p plus tax each way Ryanair to Jerez home of Sherry and beautiful dresses. then Krakow courtesy of CentralWings cheap flights from Gatwick. I have also been very comforted by the email communications with the hotel in Krakow. they think of everything. |
Re: Package or DIY?
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:00:20 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> wrote: >So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, >or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? The last package I took was 20 years ago, visiting Rwanda and what was then Zaïre. This was because I'd never been to Africa before, so I was unfamiliar with independent travel and in any case I had limited time. It was actually a fantastic experience and the tour-leader was an English guy living in Kenya who was familiar with local conditions, customs and languages.. As I sometimes work as a tour-manager on European package tours with UK customers, I wouldn't want someone like me telling me what to do (!!) so for Europe and the US I've arranged my own itineraries. Keith, Bristol, UK DE-MUNG for email replies |
Re: Package or DIY?
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:00:20 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> wrote: >Regular participants in this group might be aware that Herself and I >take a number of short-break holidays each year. >Sometimes we buy a package, and sometimes we put things together for >ourselves. [snip] >So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, >or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? I almost always DIM, except this year we're going on a cruise. We sometimes take package theme tours offered by groups in our town, such as a tour offered by the adult school to see the works of artist X in town Y, and also a bit of other sightseeing. These tours usually cost very little and have a duration of two or three days. They have all the disadvantages of package tours, such as little time to yourself, little choice of things to see, but they're usually fun since we're travelling with friends and neighbors. -- Barbara Vaughan My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup |
Re: Package or DIY?
Padraig Breathnach wrote:
> So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, > or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? > Patrick You didn't specify whether you were asking the European group members or our international friends. For vacationing in Europe I would never even consider taking a package. The last one we took was nearly 20 years ago. Nowadays we just throw everything in the car and drive off. Last year we did that and drove down through Italy to south of Naples to the Cilento area, an incredibly beautiful area virtually unknown outside of Italy. The year before we went to Croatia island hopping. We never had any problem finding somewhere to stay, and we could pick and choose what we liked. I would consider making an exception for a flight/hotel combination for a brief city tour. Even then, the last ones we did (Berlin, Naples) we simply organised ourselves. And our last trip to Mexico, we just booked the flights there and back. The only mistake we made was booking one hotel in advance through the Internet- overpriced, poor location. T. |
Re: Package or DIY?
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:39:04 +0200, Tom Peel <[email protected]> wrote:
>Padraig Breathnach wrote: >> So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, >> or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? >> >Patrick > You didn't specify whether you were asking the European group members >or our international friends. > For vacationing in Europe I would never even consider taking a >package. The last one we took was nearly 20 years ago. Nowadays we just >throw everything in the car and drive off. Last year we did that and >drove down through Italy to south of Naples to the Cilento area, an >incredibly beautiful area virtually unknown outside of Italy. The year >before we went to Croatia island hopping. We never had any problem >finding somewhere to stay, and we could pick and choose what we liked. > I would consider making an exception for a flight/hotel combination >for a brief city tour. Even then, the last ones we did (Berlin, Naples) >we simply organised ourselves. >And our last trip to Mexico, we just booked the flights there and back. >The only mistake we made was booking one hotel in advance through the >Internet- overpriced, poor location. You who are situated in Europe have a big advantage over those of us who are not. We have to look at substantial air fare so a deal that lowers that and includes hotel can at times work well. Another thing is knowing the situation for hotels, etc., where you are going. I know, for example, that in Mexico it is possible to get a decent hotel room for very little, because I have traveled all around that country. And thus I'd never book from the Internet that offers only more expensive, but not necessarily better, places. But I don't know about various locales in Europe. Hence this group is very helpful. |
Re: Package or DIY?
Padraig Breathnach wrote:
So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? For Europe, we usually made all our own travel arrangements. However, once we did a trip to Istanbul using a Singapore Airlines deal. I believe it was slightly cheaper than the combined hotel and airfare, and also had a few other things thrown in such as airport transfers and a half day tour. Now, living in Germany, we would probably just drive the car somewhere. However, it probably is worth checking the paper for some destinations where combined airfare and hotel might be cheap. When visiting the US we would take a package deal to Mexico or South America using travel specials in US newspapers, which oftentimes would have hotel and airfare for less than the cost of what we could purchase the airfare ourselves. While driving around the US we once met a British couple traveling for the same length of time that had gotten their airfare and car rental for less than what we paid for our relatively cheap car rental alone. So excellent deals can be found. And in Asia, we usually make arrangements with an Asian travel agency to handle personalized tours for my wife and me. George |
Re: Package or DIY?
> Padraig Breathnach wrote:
> So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you > take packages, or put together your own programmes, or do > some of each? I really enjoy getting into the nuts and bolts of arranging my own travel. Sure, its more work, but I find that no one single provider has the best options or best prices. For example, I used different sources to book the following: A tour of Nero's Golden House in Rome, a bus tour to Tivoli, a car rental in Florence, a winery tour in Tuscany, museum tickets in Florence, and a canal tour in Venice. I doubt that any package could have accommodated this at the prices which I found by going directly to the provider. =R= |
Re: Package or DIY?
"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... > Regular participants in this group might be aware that Herself and I > take a number of short-break holidays each year. > Sometimes we buy a package, and sometimes we put things together for > ourselves. So what you define as a package contains airfare plus accommodation, nothing else? Where do you buy these from? I tend to think of a package tour as including a group, a bus, and short stops in many places. We did this once on our first trip to Europe. The hotels were bland and poorly located. I like small hotels, too small for a tour group, very centrally located, with lots of local color. And, to tell the truth, I love the research. Obsessively. So I DIM. Marianne |
Re: Package or DIY?
Mimi wrote:
So what you define as a package contains airfare plus accommodation, nothing else? Where do you buy these from? Most package deals are for airfare plus (one) hotel and possibly meals (or car) for resort areas of the world and are obtainable from most travel agents. I can go past the travel agents in Stuttgart and see in the windows tens of such offers for the Canary Islands, coastal Spain, Malta, etc. In the US the Sunday papers are also full of such ads. What you are thinking of is an organized tour. George |
Re: Package or DIY?
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 11:26:23 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, "Mimi" <[email protected]>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this : ... ... "Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message ... news:[email protected]... ... > Regular participants in this group might be aware that Herself and I ... > take a number of short-break holidays each year. ... > ... > Sometimes we buy a package, and sometimes we put things together for ... > ourselves. ... ... So what you define as a package contains airfare plus accommodation, nothing ... else? Where do you buy these from? I used one of those the first time I visited Athens - it was much cheaper than buying the plane tickets and booking a hotel myself, and it even included the ride from and to the airport. |
Re: Package or DIY?
On 21 Apr 2005 11:41:11 -0700, "george" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Mimi wrote: >So what you define as a package contains airfare plus accommodation, >nothing >else? Where do you buy these from? >Most package deals are for airfare plus (one) hotel and possibly meals >(or car) for resort areas of the world and are obtainable from most >travel agents. I can go past the travel agents in Stuttgart and see >in the windows tens of such offers for the Canary Islands, coastal >Spain, Malta, etc. In the US the Sunday papers are also full of such >ads. What you are thinking of is an organized tour. >George In the U.S. various airlines and hotels offer combination deals for airfare and hotel. You find them online at sites such as Orbitz or Travelocity. They often include optional car rental. The best of them have a very short window to select them and then they are gone. You can sign up to be notified by Email of deals to places you want to travel. For those with flexible schedules, this can be worthwhile. Some sites quote prices but don't include airport or hotel taxes and I'd not deal with those. |
Re: Package or DIY?
"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... > Sometimes we buy a package, and sometimes we put things together for > ourselves. > So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, > or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? PB, We always book our stuff separately. It comes down to the fact that we are picky. I don't just want any 3/4/5-star hotel, I don't just want any flight times, I don't just want any restaurants, I don't want x, y, and z city --- I want x, y, and b city, or whatever. I also like my money to follow DIRECTLY to the people who are providing the service (whether it be hotel, flight, etc). I want to pay them myself. What's this mean? If there is a problem, I want the ability to withhold payment, to change my hotel if its crappy, etc. Forget these "coupons" that will be honored. Yeah, right. I don't like this all-inclusive stuff where all your food is covered, but comes with the strings-attached that it has to be one of three, or one of five on-site restaurants. Or you can get everything but this steak (the steak is a $10 upcharge, or you can't order this bottle of wine, etc) If your money goes through a third party, and that third party doesn't pay the hotel, the airline, etc --- or doesn't pay them enough, etc etc. --- or there's a discrepency, then what? Are you going to call hotels.com, or priceline.com, or GLOBUS, etc from 3000 miles away and wait on hold for 30 minutes? IF they even have phone support? And who cares if they have an "office" in spain? An office in most countries is one person, and if they are out to lunch, or if they close at 5pm, tough shitsky. Oh, and how about "non-refundable" trips that get interrupted do to weather-related travel problems? If it happens to me, I call the hotel and cancel the booking, or reschedule it. What do you when it "can't" be cancelled? I usually only book hotels that don't require any type of prepayment, no cancellation fees, able to cancel up 6pm day of arrival type of places. Overall, we probably end up spending more, but we also end up with higher quality and more control over our experience. Dollar for dollar I think I could compete pretty close with most packages on the same level. I don't argue that there might be deals here or there that are really good values, but I think you have to be willing to accept what they give you, and be happy about it. Without offending present company, I think the days of travel agents are numbered. Every now and again, when I get bored, I call a couple different agencies, give them my rough itinerary, and see what they come up with. They consistently have higher rates on the flights, higher prices on hotels, and higher prices on rental cars. There are so many online resources now that give us access to search, that it only takes some diligent work (that I actually like) to come up with the "best" prices. Factor in a couple "special rates", some negotiating with the hotel, and I'm doing better than they are. Perhaps for a different type of person who wants a "turn-key" solution, where they simply want to fork one check over to one place, and get on a plane, perhaps that makes sense. Not for us. my .02 Keith Pittsburgh |
Re: Package or DIY?
"Mimi" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message >news:[email protected].. . >> Regular participants in this group might be aware that Herself and I >> take a number of short-break holidays each year. >> Sometimes we buy a package, and sometimes we put things together for >> ourselves. >So what you define as a package contains airfare plus accommodation, nothing >else? Where do you buy these from? That's a fairly common product in the Irish market, especially for short breaks. Accommodation normally includes breakfast and no other meals. I usually deal with one operator because they have never let me down. You get what they say you will get: if they say the hotel is okay, then the hotel is okay; if they say the hotel is good, then the hotel is good. No set dates, no tour leader, no programme of activities, nothing like that. They send you tickets, hotel voucher, and off you go. >I tend to think of a package tour as including a group, a bus, and short >stops in many places. We did this once on our first trip to Europe. The >hotels were bland and poorly located. I like small hotels, too small for a >tour group, very centrally located, with lots of local color. When we were neophytes, we did something like that. Once is enough. More than enough. >And, to tell the truth, I love the research. Obsessively. So I DIM. I find the research interesting, but sometimes the first research exercise is simply checking if what Citiescapes (my preferred operator) is offering me is a good deal. Then I research the destination to figure out how we will spend our time. My travel programme this year are a fair indication of how I approach things: the Venice trip was organised by be (with much help from r.t.e. participants); the Stockholm trip was a flights-and-accommodation package; next month's trip to Brittany is quite unstructured, in that I'll get on the ferry, arrive in Cherbourg, and take it from there (yes, I do know Cherbourg is in Normandy). -- PB The return address has been MUNGED |
Re: Package or DIY?
Tom Peel <[email protected]> wrote:
> You didn't specify whether you were asking the European group members >or our international friends. Nobody is precluded from joining in the conversation! But I confess that, living in Europe, my mindset in posing the question was Eurocentric. > For vacationing in Europe I would never even consider taking a >package. The last one we took was nearly 20 years ago. Nowadays we just >throw everything in the car and drive off. Last year we did that and >drove down through Italy to south of Naples to the Cilento area, an >incredibly beautiful area virtually unknown outside of Italy. The year >before we went to Croatia island hopping. We never had any problem >finding somewhere to stay, and we could pick and choose what we liked. Island hopping? What sort of car do you drive? > I would consider making an exception for a flight/hotel combination >for a brief city tour. Even then, the last ones we did (Berlin, Naples) >we simply organised ourselves. That's the sort of package we sometimes buy. I don't often go to the operator's website, but I'm on their email list, and they notify me of special offers. Sometimes they just press the right button: a destination we like at dates we can manage. -- PB The return address has been MUNGED |
Re: Package or DIY?
Rita <[email protected]> wrote:
>You who are situated in Europe have a big advantage over those of us >who are not. For sure, if the destination is in Europe. >We have to look at substantial air fare so a deal that >lowers that and includes hotel can at times work well. When airfares within Europe were high, it was often the case that a travel and accommodation package cost no more, or very little more, than a travel-only deal. I suspect that such may still apply if your travel to Europe is long-haul and expensive. >Another thing is knowing the situation for hotels, etc., where you are >going. I know, for example, that in Mexico it is possible to get a >decent hotel room for very little, because I have traveled all around >that country. And thus I'd never book from the Internet that offers only >more expensive, but not necessarily better, places. But I don't know >about various locales in Europe. Hence this group is very helpful. This group is a great resource. Wherever in (or even outside) Europe you want to travel, you are likely to encounter people with relevant experience. -- PB The return address has been MUNGED |
Re: Package or DIY?
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:50:09 +0100, Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]>
wrote: >Rita <[email protected]> wrote: >>You who are situated in Europe have a big advantage over those of us >>who are not. >For sure, if the destination is in Europe. >>We have to look at substantial air fare so a deal that >>lowers that and includes hotel can at times work well. >When airfares within Europe were high, it was often the case that a >travel and accommodation package cost no more, or very little more, >than a travel-only deal. I suspect that such may still apply if your >travel to Europe is long-haul and expensive. I live in New York City so airfares to Europe for me are far better than from many parts of the U.S. And there are many airlines to choose from that serve New York area airports. What I dislike the most if having to specify a return date. Some years ago one could fly standby from New York and I loved that. When my money ran out, I came home. There are some good package deals available now and then for travel within the U.S. but for the most part I visit children and am leaving for Dallas, Texas tomorrow and then on to Southern California and will visit a son working in Dallas and a son in San Diego, another in Corona del Mar and a daughter in Santa Barbara. Not too shabby! |
Re: Package or DIY?
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:00:20 +0100, Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]>
wrote: <[email protected]> >So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, >or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? The Internet is a wonderful resource. It takes a fair bit of work to put a successful vacation program together, but in my opinion it's well worth it. I do all my own planning. Vacation pix at http://nisus.home.mindspring.com (change Arabic number to Roman numeral to email) |
Re: Package or DIY?
In article <[email protected]>, Padraig
Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote: > Regular participants in this group might be aware that Herself and I > take a number of short-break holidays each year. > > Sometimes we buy a package, and sometimes we put things together for > ourselves. 'weekenders' can often be good package deals, like when we go to Cabo San Lucas,MX... I book the flight, ocean view room and transfers as a package. Or Ski trips you can often save a lot by packaging things that you will buy anyway; air, room, pass and rentals. Anything besides that, I book direct. I want to have a documented relationship with the Hotel... as often I'm requesting a specific room... while "packages" will often forward these types of requests along, yet you can be surprised on arrival:"I'm sorry, we did not get your request from your agent, you should contact them...." jay Thu Apr 21, 2005 mailto:[email protected] > > When I am tempted by a package, I look at the deal and check how much > it would cost to book the components myself (usually just flight and > accommodation). In only one case that I checked out could I get a > better deal that way. I might do better by being flexible on > accommodation, but I find that the travel company I most often use is > good on hotels, and confidence that the accommodation will be good is > worth something. Other advantages of buying a package are convenience > (a minor point, to my mind) and the legal responsibility of the tour > operator if things go wrong (in the EU, consumer protection law on > package holidays is strong -- but I am not particularly litigious, so > it is a consideration to which I do not give a great deal of thought. > > Yesterday I read a piece in "Consumer Choice", a publication of the > Consumer Association of Ireland (something like "Which?" in the UK) > which concluded that it is almost always cheaper to go the DIY route, > and sometimes more than 30% cheaper. I am a little suspicious of the > piece because of the way in which some tour operators in Ireland > calculate their headline prices: oddly, you can buy some packages more > cheaply than the published price if you choose dates with good > availability of bargain flights. > > So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, > or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? |
Re: Package or DIY?
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:00:20 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> > >So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, > >or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? I've used very few travel packages and haven't been happy with most of them. I've been doing my own planning since long before there was an Internet. Back then I would figure out just want I wnated and either write/phone ahead or have my travel agent do some of the work. But I usually stay at cheaper/smaller hotels that don't pay commissions so travel agents won 't deal with them. |
Re: Package or DIY?
Keith wrote:
Without offending present company, I think the days of travel agents are numbered. I hope not. Good travel agents provide valuable services. I spent a week going around Iceland in early June, 2000 arranged by an Icelandic travel agent (with them providing good detailed instructions). Even he, being extremely knowlegable, had a hard time putting together an interesting itinary to circle Iceland by bus. For me, and any other person not from Iceland, it would have been impossible. He knew what attractions there were, what attractions were visitable at that time, what accomodations were open, and what all local schedules were. If I did this on my own and misjudged a stop, it could be only corrected by bus next day, and there was always the weekly ferry schedule to Iceland to cope with. And when I got to Akureyri where they had their office, there was a message to give them a call. A bus strike was planned for the next day so he was able to get me airline tickets to bypass that problem area. I didn't have to arrive at the bus station the next day and wonder where the bus was, find out what the problem was, and settle it on my own trying to get a flight (which I didn't even know existed) and getting a partial refund on my bus ticket. I would have hated to try doing that possibly in Icelandic. And while I was waiting at the travel agency's office, he made rapid arrangements in a few minutes for a small group of Japanese tourists to heliski in Greenland and also use the helicopter to film, making all pertinent travel arrangements. Try doing that on your own. I doubt that you could, and if you forgot one "minor" detail, your whole expensive trip would be spoiled. And for traveling in SE Asia, we could not get visas for Myanmar and Vietnam living in Saudi Arabia. The SE Asian travel agency arranged for visas on arrival in both countries which we couldn't do ourselves, allowing us to visit two interesting countries. And for air travel from Saudi Arabia to 3-4 continents and multiple countries using multiple airlines our SA travel agent always got us remarkedly low airfares which I doubt that you could do yourself, as it really is a full time business. Travel is just not simply flying from A to B. George |
Re: Package or DIY?
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:49:34 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> wrote: >That's a fairly common product in the Irish market, especially for >short breaks. Accommodation normally includes breakfast and no other >meals. I usually deal with one operator because they have never let me >down. You get what they say you will get: if they say the hotel is >okay, then the hotel is okay; if they say the hotel is good, then the >hotel is good. No set dates, no tour leader, no programme of >activities, nothing like that. They send you tickets, hotel voucher, >and off you go. It seems to me that in Italy, the totally organized package is most common. There are lots of flight/hotel combinations for tropical island destinations, but for other destinations in Europe (or Asia or Africa), what I mostly see is packaged tours. My husband would like to go to Egypt one of these days and I almost had him convinced that we could DIO, but then some Italians who had been there insisted that it would be very dangerous to wander around Egypt without a babysitter. I'm hoping that a year or two from now, he won't remember that advice. >>I tend to think of a package tour as including a group, a bus, and short >>stops in many places. We did this once on our first trip to Europe. The >>hotels were bland and poorly located. I like small hotels, too small for a >>tour group, very centrally located, with lots of local color. >When we were neophytes, we did something like that. Once is enough. >More than enough. >>And, to tell the truth, I love the research. Obsessively. So I DIM. >I find the research interesting, but sometimes the first research >exercise is simply checking if what Citiescapes (my preferred >operator) is offering me is a good deal. Then I research the >destination to figure out how we will spend our time. >My travel programme this year are a fair indication of how I approach >things: the Venice trip was organised by be (with much help from >r.t.e. participants); the Stockholm trip was a >flights-and-accommodation package; next month's trip to Brittany is >quite unstructured, in that I'll get on the ferry, arrive in >Cherbourg, and take it from there (yes, I do know Cherbourg is in >Normandy). -- Barbara Vaughan My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup |
Re: Package or DIY?
Padraig Breathnach schrieb:
> So I ask: what do other members of our group do? Do you take packages, > or put together your own programmes, or do some of each? I put together my own programmes. Hard to find packages including regular trains and countyside bed & breakfast next to a train station. Regards, ULF |
Re: Package or DIY?
Wierd Travelers schrieb:
> > I tend to make the decision based on the amount of travel. If I am > going to a single city or sites around a single city I will usally go > DIY. However if it is a multi-location trip with alot of travel > between locations then bundled is the way to go. > > The reason for that is that if I am going to alot of locations I am > going to be spending alot of time getting hotels, waiting for > transportation, find ways to store my stuff,etc. With a bundled trip > that is all worked out. Sure but this applies only if you find a multi-location package that fits your ideas about the locations to see (or if you don't mind). Regards, ULF |
Re: Package or DIY?
Padraig Breathnach schrieb:
> >We have to look at substantial air fare so a deal that > >lowers that and includes hotel can at times work well. > > > When airfares within Europe were high, it was often the case that a > travel and accommodation package cost no more, or very little more, > than a travel-only deal. It was the case with travel from Germany to the SU/Russia about 1990/1992. Regards, ULF |
Re: Package or DIY?
Rita schrieb:
> I live in New York City so airfares to Europe for me are far better > than from many parts of the U.S. And there are many airlines to > choose from that serve New York area airports. > > What I dislike the most if having to specify a return date. Some > years ago one could fly standby from New York and I loved that. > When my money ran out, I came home. DUS - JFK, in EUR, one way, taxes included: LT 1551 So 08.05. 17:45 07:00 >9 199,- LT 1551 Mo 09.05. 17:45 07:00 >9 199,- LT 1551 Di 10.05. 17:45 07:00 >9 199,- LT 1551 Do 12.05. 17:45 07:00 >9 199,- LT 1551 Fr 13.05. 17:45 07:00 >9 199,- LT 1551 Sa 14.05. 17:45 07:00 >9 199,- LT 1551 So 15.05. 17:45 07:00 >9 199,- LT 1551 Mo 16.05. 17:45 07:00 >9 199,- Regards, ULF |
Re: Package or DIY?
On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:31:21 +0200, B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:49:34 +0100, Padraig Breathnach ><[email protected]> wrote: >>That's a fairly common product in the Irish market, especially for >>short breaks. Accommodation normally includes breakfast and no other >>meals. I usually deal with one operator because they have never let me >>down. You get what they say you will get: if they say the hotel is >>okay, then the hotel is okay; if they say the hotel is good, then the >>hotel is good. No set dates, no tour leader, no programme of >>activities, nothing like that. They send you tickets, hotel voucher, >>and off you go. >It seems to me that in Italy, the totally organized package is most >common. There are lots of flight/hotel combinations for tropical >island destinations, but for other destinations in Europe (or Asia or >Africa), what I mostly see is packaged tours. >My husband would like to go to Egypt one of these days and I almost >had him convinced that we could DIO, but then some Italians who had >been there insisted that it would be very dangerous to wander around >Egypt without a babysitter. I'm hoping that a year or two from now, he >won't remember that advice. I can't imagine Egypt would be that dangerous. I know a couple of girls that hitchhiked in parts of it even, although they did spend a lot of time fending off the men. Probably one of the trickier places for independent travel though. -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- |
Re: Package or DIY?
Deep Foiled Malls wrote:
can't imagine Egypt would be that dangerous. I know a couple of girls that hitchhiked in parts of it even, although they did spend a lot of time fending off the men. Probably one of the trickier places for independent travel though. There was a recent suicide bomber that killed a few people in Cairo a few weeks ago, and then there were the attacks on tourists in the south a few years ago, so tourists are deliberately being targeted. That being said, you're probably more likely to be killed there in a traffic accident. George |
Re: Package or DIY?
"Rita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... > Another thing is knowing the situation for hotels, etc., where you are > going. I know, for example, that in Mexico it is possible to get a > decent hotel room for very little, because I have traveled all around > that country. And thus I'd never book from the Internet that offers only > more expensive, but not necessarily better, places. But I don't know > about various locales in Europe. Hence this group is very helpful. Nearly all my traveling is in Europe, and I only ever booked ahead twice. (In both cases, I knew I would stay for two weeks at the same place and I had a good idea about what the hotel would be like.) IME, outside of the high season in the major tourist spots (and London...) there are always more beds than tourists, and I'm quite flexible in what accomodation I want and can afford -- a dormitory in a hostel is fine with me as, but in a pinch I can afford a middle class hotel. (Two years ago in Poland I had moments of doubt about my strategy, because I often couldn't find the Tourist Information and didn't speak the language. Still, it worked out.) inge |
Re: Package or DIY?
On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:56:07 +0200, "Ingeborg Denner" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Rita" <[email protected]> wrote in message >news:[email protected].. . >> Another thing is knowing the situation for hotels, etc., where you are >> going. I know, for example, that in Mexico it is possible to get a >> decent hotel room for very little, because I have traveled all around >> that country. And thus I'd never book from the Internet that offers only >> more expensive, but not necessarily better, places. But I don't know >> about various locales in Europe. Hence this group is very helpful. >Nearly all my traveling is in Europe, and I only ever booked ahead >twice. (In both cases, I knew I would stay for two weeks at the >same place and I had a good idea about what the hotel would be like.) >IME, outside of the high season in the major tourist spots (and London...) >there are always more beds than tourists, and I'm quite flexible in >what accomodation I want and can afford -- a dormitory in a hostel >is fine with me as, but in a pinch I can afford a middle class hotel. >(Two years ago in Poland I had moments of doubt about my strategy, >because I often couldn't find the Tourist Information and didn't speak >the language. Still, it worked out.) This has been my pattern, not to book ahead, and I have been remarkably lucky in finding low cost acceptable hotel rooms. I've mixed them with staying in hostels, where I would book ahead for the first night. But I like to read what others say about the situation for hotels in general and the costs, etc. And now I am much older than when I began traveling and less keen on dragging my bag around while I investigate lodging possibilities. Less flexibility does mean somewhat higher costs. But I can't turn the clock back:) I used to set a top end price at the tourist offices. They would offer me something more expensive. I would smile and shake my head and stand there. Eventually they came up with something in my price range. I got the idea they sometimes had particular hotels they favored, although I may be wrong about this. Once I got sent to a renovated hotel in Paris at a very low price. The room was beautiful. And it came with bath. The problem came when I found the bathroom had no toilet and I had to walk down three flights of stairs to find one in the hall. Not good! I was not informed of this in advance by either the tourist office or the hotel desk. It was the only room in the hotel so organized. It is this kind of surprise I wish to avoid these days. |
Re: Package or DIY?
On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:37:19 GMT, Rita <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:56:07 +0200, "Ingeborg Denner" <[email protected]> wrote: >>"Rita" <[email protected]> wrote in message >>news:[email protected]. .. >>> Another thing is knowing the situation for hotels, etc., where you are >>> going. I know, for example, that in Mexico it is possible to get a >>> decent hotel room for very little, because I have traveled all around >>> that country. And thus I'd never book from the Internet that offers only >>> more expensive, but not necessarily better, places. But I don't know >>> about various locales in Europe. Hence this group is very helpful. >>Nearly all my traveling is in Europe, and I only ever booked ahead >>twice. (In both cases, I knew I would stay for two weeks at the >>same place and I had a good idea about what the hotel would be like.) >>IME, outside of the high season in the major tourist spots (and London...) >>there are always more beds than tourists, and I'm quite flexible in >>what accomodation I want and can afford -- a dormitory in a hostel >>is fine with me as, but in a pinch I can afford a middle class hotel. >>(Two years ago in Poland I had moments of doubt about my strategy, >>because I often couldn't find the Tourist Information and didn't speak >>the language. Still, it worked out.) >This has been my pattern, not to book ahead, and I have been >remarkably lucky in finding low cost acceptable hotel rooms. >I've mixed them with staying in hostels, where I would book ahead >for the first night. But I like to read what others say about >the situation for hotels in general and the costs, etc. As with you guys, I never book rooms unless I am arriving somewhere strange after a long journey, or will arrive late at night. Never had a problem yet, although at times it has been a bit frustrating. Sometimes paid more than I wanted, but usually paid less. >And now I am much older than when I began traveling and less keen >on dragging my bag around while I investigate lodging possibilities. >Less flexibility does mean somewhat higher costs. But I can't turn >the clock back:) I used to set a top end price at the tourist >offices. They would offer me something more expensive. I would >smile and shake my head and stand there. Eventually they came up >with something in my price range. I got the idea they sometimes >had particular hotels they favored, although I may be wrong about >this. If you just tell them your a poor backpacker, smile, and ask them for help, they will usually put you on the right path. -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- |
Re: Package or DIY?
On 22 Apr 2005 03:52:00 -0700, "george" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Deep Foiled Malls wrote: >can't imagine Egypt would be that dangerous. I know a couple of >girls that hitchhiked in parts of it even, although they did spend a >lot of time fending off the men. Probably one of the trickier places >for independent travel though. >There was a recent suicide bomber that killed a few people in Cairo a >few weeks ago, and then there were the attacks on tourists in the south >a few years ago, so tourists are deliberately being targeted. That >being said, you're probably more likely to be killed there in a traffic >accident. A very good point to remember. Terrorism is one of the lower threats to your life that there is anywhere on earth. -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- |
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