OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
Jul 4th 2002, 9:20 am
#76
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
"P J Wallace" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> Erm... well, actually the treaties don't allow for members to be expelled.. And I
> don't think you would have thanked anyone for suggesting the Netherlands should be
> expelled because of Pim Fortuyn....?
Strange logic. What does Pim Fortuyn have to do with a EU country deciding to stay
out of many central EU policies? (the euro, Schengen, etc.)
And ofcourse I wasn't serious about kicking the UK out. But it is about time the
Brits make up their minds: either you are in the EU and participate, or you are not
in and go on your own. It is your choice, but please make that choice soon.
Sjoerd
news:[email protected]...
> Erm... well, actually the treaties don't allow for members to be expelled.. And I
> don't think you would have thanked anyone for suggesting the Netherlands should be
> expelled because of Pim Fortuyn....?
Strange logic. What does Pim Fortuyn have to do with a EU country deciding to stay
out of many central EU policies? (the euro, Schengen, etc.)
And ofcourse I wasn't serious about kicking the UK out. But it is about time the
Brits make up their minds: either you are in the EU and participate, or you are not
in and go on your own. It is your choice, but please make that choice soon.
Sjoerd
Jul 4th 2002, 9:20 am
#77
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
> And ofcourse I wasn't serious about kicking the UK out. But it is about
time
> the Brits make up their minds: either you are in the EU and participate,
or
> you are not in and go on your own. It is your choice, but please make that
> choice soon.
The frustration can definately be understood. "Shit or get off the pot" at it's
finest! All of the countries that have already enetered into the Euro "Experiment"
(For lack of a better word) are taking the risk that things might not work out as
well as they hope. To sit by and wait for the outcome before making a decision
isn't really very fair. It's like people who wait until the Championship Game is
won before they decide who to cheer for. I can undertand why it could be
infuriating. And besides, all of the "Yes we will...then again maybe we won't" talk
can't really be very good for the Euro's value on international markets.
time
> the Brits make up their minds: either you are in the EU and participate,
or
> you are not in and go on your own. It is your choice, but please make that
> choice soon.
The frustration can definately be understood. "Shit or get off the pot" at it's
finest! All of the countries that have already enetered into the Euro "Experiment"
(For lack of a better word) are taking the risk that things might not work out as
well as they hope. To sit by and wait for the outcome before making a decision
isn't really very fair. It's like people who wait until the Championship Game is
won before they decide who to cheer for. I can undertand why it could be
infuriating. And besides, all of the "Yes we will...then again maybe we won't" talk
can't really be very good for the Euro's value on international markets.
Jul 4th 2002, 9:20 am
#78
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
> That's clearly what the Alberta inferiority complex would like us to believe. But
> as usual, this has to be taken with a grain of salt.
We could argue the same old points over and over again (NEP...etc etc etc) but I
think we can skip that and move stright into the name calling! <Grin>
> This viewpoint is much more a reflection of Alberta insularity (i.e., the world is
> far way) than anything else. It's definitely not shared by those of us who live in
> a smaller world.
I'm not too sure about this anymore. Sure, at one point the distance between East and
West was a significant factor, but why is it that the views coming out of
Saskatchewan and Manitoba seem to parallel those of Alberta and BC rather than
Ontario and Quebec? (Rhetorical, don't sweat it)
> What is true of course is that regardless of distances, the redneck political
> viewpoint so common in Alberta (more or less the Canadian bible belt) is bound to
> feel marginalized in a broader Canadian context. Regardless of distances. Where
> distance comes into play is this widely shared marginalized redneck viewpoint would
> not survive very long if distances weren't there and people would have better
> opportunities to open their mind.
Hmmm, redneck political viewpoint.....I wonder why Western Canada feels alienated?
Have you ever been to Calgary? Not that many cowboys anymore. Come to think of it,
our "Suit to Cowboy Hat Ratio" is probably a lot lower than Toronto's "Suit to
Homeless Person Ratio"
And you're right about how the Marginalized Redneck Viewpoint would never survive.
Some of our redneck ideas like a Triple E Senate would never work in Canada. It's
too democratic an idea. I'll give you the "Canada's Bible Belt" though. Sadly, no
arguement there!
> Anyway, ongoing growth will change all of this sooner or later.
Not if the Federal Government keeps treating Alberta like it's little Piggy Bank.
Albertan's have gone through 6 years of "Poor" Health Care and Public Services to
get to where they are right now (Debt Free and Defecit Free) and unless the Federal
Government does the same thing, the Country's going to continue to wallow in the
mud of World Markets. When Ontario tried to follow Alberta's lead, the Public
Servants went on strike and shutdown the province. Why make sacrifices when you can
take money from the rich westerners...right?
> And BTW, there is no recession elsewhere in Canada either. The worldwide drop in
> interest rates, the death of the internet/computer illusion etc. are leading to
> revival in the "old" economy, which can only be good for Canada.
Absolutely. I regretted saying "..is in recession" when I really should have said
"...was in recession". But face it, when Canada was hurting (And still is feeling
the effects) the Federal Governement hinted at taking more money from Western
Canada. (Premier Klein went beserk about another NEP - Which Cretien denied he ever
suggested) The point is simply that most Western Canadians feel alienated that we
are good enough to contribute, but not good enough to have an equal say. Maritimers
feel sort of the same way. Only they don't have *any* money, and therefore have
*no* ability to drop a few F-Bombs on the Federal Folks.
> > Guys like Rupert Murdoch and Conrad Black are pure evil, I'll agree
with
> > that. Conrad Black has all but eliminated Free Press in Canada. My
local
> > paper never has anything bad to say about the Federal Liberals or the Provincial
> > PCs. It's irritating. I read the paper for unbiased
information
> > to base my opinions on - Not to be told *what* my opinions should be.
But
> > still, I don't think you can pin a lot of the blame on the Super-Rich
> > Zillionaires.
>
> Good luck. I din't read it when it was owned by Black or Murdoch and I don't read
> it now, not so much because of the political line but because of its poor quality.
> This said, unbiased information does not exist. Never did and never will.
Sadly, you are right. Even news stories are biased now, not just the editorials.
> as usual, this has to be taken with a grain of salt.
We could argue the same old points over and over again (NEP...etc etc etc) but I
think we can skip that and move stright into the name calling! <Grin>
> This viewpoint is much more a reflection of Alberta insularity (i.e., the world is
> far way) than anything else. It's definitely not shared by those of us who live in
> a smaller world.
I'm not too sure about this anymore. Sure, at one point the distance between East and
West was a significant factor, but why is it that the views coming out of
Saskatchewan and Manitoba seem to parallel those of Alberta and BC rather than
Ontario and Quebec? (Rhetorical, don't sweat it)
> What is true of course is that regardless of distances, the redneck political
> viewpoint so common in Alberta (more or less the Canadian bible belt) is bound to
> feel marginalized in a broader Canadian context. Regardless of distances. Where
> distance comes into play is this widely shared marginalized redneck viewpoint would
> not survive very long if distances weren't there and people would have better
> opportunities to open their mind.
Hmmm, redneck political viewpoint.....I wonder why Western Canada feels alienated?
Have you ever been to Calgary? Not that many cowboys anymore. Come to think of it,
our "Suit to Cowboy Hat Ratio" is probably a lot lower than Toronto's "Suit to
Homeless Person Ratio"
And you're right about how the Marginalized Redneck Viewpoint would never survive.
Some of our redneck ideas like a Triple E Senate would never work in Canada. It's
too democratic an idea. I'll give you the "Canada's Bible Belt" though. Sadly, no
arguement there!
> Anyway, ongoing growth will change all of this sooner or later.
Not if the Federal Government keeps treating Alberta like it's little Piggy Bank.
Albertan's have gone through 6 years of "Poor" Health Care and Public Services to
get to where they are right now (Debt Free and Defecit Free) and unless the Federal
Government does the same thing, the Country's going to continue to wallow in the
mud of World Markets. When Ontario tried to follow Alberta's lead, the Public
Servants went on strike and shutdown the province. Why make sacrifices when you can
take money from the rich westerners...right?
> And BTW, there is no recession elsewhere in Canada either. The worldwide drop in
> interest rates, the death of the internet/computer illusion etc. are leading to
> revival in the "old" economy, which can only be good for Canada.
Absolutely. I regretted saying "..is in recession" when I really should have said
"...was in recession". But face it, when Canada was hurting (And still is feeling
the effects) the Federal Governement hinted at taking more money from Western
Canada. (Premier Klein went beserk about another NEP - Which Cretien denied he ever
suggested) The point is simply that most Western Canadians feel alienated that we
are good enough to contribute, but not good enough to have an equal say. Maritimers
feel sort of the same way. Only they don't have *any* money, and therefore have
*no* ability to drop a few F-Bombs on the Federal Folks.
> > Guys like Rupert Murdoch and Conrad Black are pure evil, I'll agree
with
> > that. Conrad Black has all but eliminated Free Press in Canada. My
local
> > paper never has anything bad to say about the Federal Liberals or the Provincial
> > PCs. It's irritating. I read the paper for unbiased
information
> > to base my opinions on - Not to be told *what* my opinions should be.
But
> > still, I don't think you can pin a lot of the blame on the Super-Rich
> > Zillionaires.
>
> Good luck. I din't read it when it was owned by Black or Murdoch and I don't read
> it now, not so much because of the political line but because of its poor quality.
> This said, unbiased information does not exist. Never did and never will.
Sadly, you are right. Even news stories are biased now, not just the editorials.
Jul 4th 2002, 9:20 am
#79
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
In rec.travel.air Not the Karl Orff <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "News"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Oh, and don't forget that a huge amount of the (violently aggressive) British
>> > press is controlled by rabidly anti-Euro rich piggies like Rupert Murdoch and
>> > Conrad Black. If the UK population is on balance against the Euro, a large part
>> > of the blame can be laid at the door of foreign zillionaires who don't live here
>> > and who aren't British.
>>
>> Guys like Rupert Murdoch and Conrad Black are pure evil, I'll agree with
>> that. Conrad Black has all but eliminated Free Press in Canada. My local
> Can't blame Conrad Black. He sold off his newspapers to the Aspers who are the
> censors.
> Anyway, Black took up U.K. citizenship and renounced his Canadian one.
He is married to Barbara Amiel, one of the most right-wing writers of trash I have
ever read under the guise of a newspaper columnist. I guess they deserve each other.
Scotty
--
Steve Howie [email protected] Academic Services, CCS (519) 824-4120 x2556 University of
Guelph "If it's not Scottish it's CRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPP!"
> In article <[email protected]>, "News"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Oh, and don't forget that a huge amount of the (violently aggressive) British
>> > press is controlled by rabidly anti-Euro rich piggies like Rupert Murdoch and
>> > Conrad Black. If the UK population is on balance against the Euro, a large part
>> > of the blame can be laid at the door of foreign zillionaires who don't live here
>> > and who aren't British.
>>
>> Guys like Rupert Murdoch and Conrad Black are pure evil, I'll agree with
>> that. Conrad Black has all but eliminated Free Press in Canada. My local
> Can't blame Conrad Black. He sold off his newspapers to the Aspers who are the
> censors.
> Anyway, Black took up U.K. citizenship and renounced his Canadian one.
He is married to Barbara Amiel, one of the most right-wing writers of trash I have
ever read under the guise of a newspaper columnist. I guess they deserve each other.
Scotty
--
Steve Howie [email protected] Academic Services, CCS (519) 824-4120 x2556 University of
Guelph "If it's not Scottish it's CRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPP!"
Jul 4th 2002, 12:20 pm
#80
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
News <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ask yourself (Posed to everyone, nobody in particular) would you rather earn
> $50,000 per year for the rest of your life, with the potential of occasional 10%
> increases or decreases - Or would you rather earn $30,000 per year with the
> potential for 50% increases or decreases.
Hmmm.
$30000 + 50% = $45000. $50000 - 10% = $45000.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/
> Ask yourself (Posed to everyone, nobody in particular) would you rather earn
> $50,000 per year for the rest of your life, with the potential of occasional 10%
> increases or decreases - Or would you rather earn $30,000 per year with the
> potential for 50% increases or decreases.
Hmmm.
$30000 + 50% = $45000. $50000 - 10% = $45000.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/
Jul 4th 2002, 10:20 pm
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
Sjoerd <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The UK was in Europe, the last time I checked.
>
Thanks for the info. So's Switzerland.
Surreyman
news:[email protected]...
>
> The UK was in Europe, the last time I checked.
>
Thanks for the info. So's Switzerland.
Surreyman
Jul 4th 2002, 10:20 pm
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
On Thu, 04 Jul 2002 23:04:09 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>News <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Ask yourself (Posed to everyone, nobody in particular) would you rather earn
>> $50,000 per year for the rest of your life, with the potential of occasional 10%
>> increases or decreases - Or would you rather earn $30,000 per year with the
>> potential for 50% increases or decreases.
>
>Hmmm.
>
>$30000 + 50% = $45000.
$45000 + 50% = $67500
$50000 +10% = 55000 $55000 + 10% = $60500
So after only 2 years you're well ahead with the 30000 start.
Jim.
>News <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Ask yourself (Posed to everyone, nobody in particular) would you rather earn
>> $50,000 per year for the rest of your life, with the potential of occasional 10%
>> increases or decreases - Or would you rather earn $30,000 per year with the
>> potential for 50% increases or decreases.
>
>Hmmm.
>
>$30000 + 50% = $45000.
$45000 + 50% = $67500
$50000 +10% = 55000 $55000 + 10% = $60500
So after only 2 years you're well ahead with the 30000 start.
Jim.
Jul 4th 2002, 11:21 pm
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mute Swans - was Re: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:44:55 +0100, "a.spencer3"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Keith Anderson <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Mute swans can (and will be) aggressive towards humans if they perceive a threat,
>> particularly when they are protecting cygnets. I was attacked by one (wings out,
>> neck extended, the thing was hissing) when walking the towpath of the Birmingham -
>> Stratford-on-Avon Canal. It was scary I can tell you! They're big and strong
>> enough to see off (even kill, if necessary) foxes or small to medium sized dogs.
>>
>Yep, join the club. One came at me on the Norfolk Broads & I had to keep it off with
>a 15ft. fishing rod!
Most of the "attacks", to be fair, are warnings - the one I mentioned above was
designed to distance me from the nest and it never actually touched me. Recently saw
a woman let her dog of a leash on a lake shore - it plunged into the water and headed
towards a pair of swans who immediately raised their wings and began hissing - the
warning was enough and the dog thought better of it. Same thing also fairly recently
at Topsham near Exeter.
If you feed them, they can give your hand a nasty nip with the serrated edge of their
beak - it's designed to rip out underwater vegetation.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Keith Anderson <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Mute swans can (and will be) aggressive towards humans if they perceive a threat,
>> particularly when they are protecting cygnets. I was attacked by one (wings out,
>> neck extended, the thing was hissing) when walking the towpath of the Birmingham -
>> Stratford-on-Avon Canal. It was scary I can tell you! They're big and strong
>> enough to see off (even kill, if necessary) foxes or small to medium sized dogs.
>>
>Yep, join the club. One came at me on the Norfolk Broads & I had to keep it off with
>a 15ft. fishing rod!
Most of the "attacks", to be fair, are warnings - the one I mentioned above was
designed to distance me from the nest and it never actually touched me. Recently saw
a woman let her dog of a leash on a lake shore - it plunged into the water and headed
towards a pair of swans who immediately raised their wings and began hissing - the
warning was enough and the dog thought better of it. Same thing also fairly recently
at Topsham near Exeter.
If you feed them, they can give your hand a nasty nip with the serrated edge of their
beak - it's designed to rip out underwater vegetation.
Jul 4th 2002, 11:21 pm
#84
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mute Swans - was Re: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 11:30:10 +0100, "a.spencer3"
<[email protected]> wrote:
[ - - ]
>> If you feed them, they can give your hand a nasty nip with the serrated edge of
>> their beak - it's designed to rip out underwater vegetation.
>>
>But, as you say, it xxxxxxxx works!
Certainly does! On the other hand, as soon as they realise that they've grabbed your
finger rather than a piece of bread, they let go immediately. Often feed the ones on
the City Docks here in Bristol, particularly in winter - helps them survive when
natural food is scarce. There are approx 80 in the winter (fewer in summer), and I
always find it a relaxing sight to see them driftig around in the centre of a city.
<[email protected]> wrote:
[ - - ]
>> If you feed them, they can give your hand a nasty nip with the serrated edge of
>> their beak - it's designed to rip out underwater vegetation.
>>
>But, as you say, it xxxxxxxx works!
Certainly does! On the other hand, as soon as they realise that they've grabbed your
finger rather than a piece of bread, they let go immediately. Often feed the ones on
the City Docks here in Bristol, particularly in winter - helps them survive when
natural food is scarce. There are approx 80 in the winter (fewer in summer), and I
always find it a relaxing sight to see them driftig around in the centre of a city.
Jul 4th 2002, 11:21 pm
#85
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mute Swans - was Re: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
Keith Anderson <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:44:55 +0100, "a.spencer3"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >Keith Anderson <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> Mute swans can (and will be) aggressive towards humans if they perceive a
> >> threat, particularly when they are protecting cygnets. I was attacked by one
> >> (wings out, neck extended, the thing was hissing) when walking the towpath of
> >> the Birmingham - Stratford-on-Avon Canal. It was scary I can tell you! They're
> >> big and strong enough to see off (even kill, if necessary) foxes or small to
> >> medium sized dogs.
> >>
> >Yep, join the club. One came at me on the Norfolk Broads & I had to keep
it
> >off with a 15ft. fishing rod!
>
> Most of the "attacks", to be fair, are warnings - the one I mentioned above was
> designed to distance me from the nest and it never actually touched me. Recently
> saw a woman let her dog of a leash on a lake shore - it plunged into the water and
> headed towards a pair of swans who immediately raised their wings and began hissing
> - the warning was enough and the dog thought better of it. Same thing also fairly
> recently at Topsham near Exeter.
>
> If you feed them, they can give your hand a nasty nip with the serrated edge of
> their beak - it's designed to rip out underwater vegetation.
>
But, as you say, it xxxxxxxx works!
Surreyman
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:44:55 +0100, "a.spencer3"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >Keith Anderson <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> Mute swans can (and will be) aggressive towards humans if they perceive a
> >> threat, particularly when they are protecting cygnets. I was attacked by one
> >> (wings out, neck extended, the thing was hissing) when walking the towpath of
> >> the Birmingham - Stratford-on-Avon Canal. It was scary I can tell you! They're
> >> big and strong enough to see off (even kill, if necessary) foxes or small to
> >> medium sized dogs.
> >>
> >Yep, join the club. One came at me on the Norfolk Broads & I had to keep
it
> >off with a 15ft. fishing rod!
>
> Most of the "attacks", to be fair, are warnings - the one I mentioned above was
> designed to distance me from the nest and it never actually touched me. Recently
> saw a woman let her dog of a leash on a lake shore - it plunged into the water and
> headed towards a pair of swans who immediately raised their wings and began hissing
> - the warning was enough and the dog thought better of it. Same thing also fairly
> recently at Topsham near Exeter.
>
> If you feed them, they can give your hand a nasty nip with the serrated edge of
> their beak - it's designed to rip out underwater vegetation.
>
But, as you say, it xxxxxxxx works!
Surreyman
Jul 5th 2002, 2:20 am
#86
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
"Sjoerd" <[email protected]> writes:
> And ofcourse I wasn't serious about kicking the UK out. But it is about time the
> Brits make up their minds: either you are in the EU and participate, or you are not
> in and go on your own. It is your choice, but please make that choice soon.
Well, goodness. Euro and Schengen apart, the UK faithfully participates in the EU far
more than some founding members.
--
-- Chris.
> And ofcourse I wasn't serious about kicking the UK out. But it is about time the
> Brits make up their minds: either you are in the EU and participate, or you are not
> in and go on your own. It is your choice, but please make that choice soon.
Well, goodness. Euro and Schengen apart, the UK faithfully participates in the EU far
more than some founding members.
--
-- Chris.
Jul 5th 2002, 3:20 am
#87
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 13:57:30 +0100, Chris Cooke wrote (in message
<[email protected]>):
> Euro and Schengen apart, the UK faithfully participates in the EU far more than
> some founding members.
The evidence for such claim being?
Paolo
<[email protected]>):
> Euro and Schengen apart, the UK faithfully participates in the EU far more than
> some founding members.
The evidence for such claim being?
Paolo
Jul 5th 2002, 4:20 am
#88
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
Paolo Cordone <[email protected]> writes:
> On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 13:57:30 +0100, Chris Cooke wrote (in message
> <[email protected]>):
>
> > Euro and Schengen apart, the UK faithfully participates in the EU far more than
> > some founding members.
>
> The evidence for such claim being?
Its high degree of cooperation with EU directives and agreements. Comparative
statistics on this seem hard to come by from europa.eu.int
- perhaps others can
unearth more than I have time to
- but here's an example I did manage to find: it's done pretty well in the
implementation of the single market:
http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_m...re/score10.htm
--
-- Chris.
> On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 13:57:30 +0100, Chris Cooke wrote (in message
> <[email protected]>):
>
> > Euro and Schengen apart, the UK faithfully participates in the EU far more than
> > some founding members.
>
> The evidence for such claim being?
Its high degree of cooperation with EU directives and agreements. Comparative
statistics on this seem hard to come by from europa.eu.int
- perhaps others canunearth more than I have time to
- but here's an example I did manage to find: it's done pretty well in the
implementation of the single market:
http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_m...re/score10.htm
--
-- Chris.
Jul 5th 2002, 5:20 am
#89
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
Then again so can the attitude of "We agreed to a customs union not a super state".
The Euro is an interesting experiment. The past successes of fixed exchange rates do
not bode well. Nor does basing it on a set of economies with serious financial
problems with pension overhang. At any exchange rate from the beginning of the Euro
proposal until today the Brits would be crazy to lock in the strong pound.
In any case, if the super state is to be all or nothing Britain would be far better
off with nothing. It would help their economy according to non-political economic
analysis discussed in The Economist last fall.
Frank Matthews
News wrote:
>>And ofcourse I wasn't serious about kicking the UK out. But it is about
>>
> time
>
>>the Brits make up their minds: either you are in the EU and participate,
>>
> or
>
>>you are not in and go on your own. It is your choice, but please make that
>>choice soon.
>>
>
> The frustration can definately be understood. "Shit or get off the pot" at it's
> finest! All of the countries that have already enetered into the Euro
> "Experiment" (For lack of a better word) are taking the risk that things might
> not work out as well as they hope. To sit by and wait for the outcome before
> making a decision isn't really very fair. It's like people who wait until the
> Championship Game is won before they decide who to cheer for. I can undertand why
> it could be infuriating. And besides, all of the "Yes we will...then again maybe
> we won't" talk can't really be very good for the Euro's value on international
> markets.
>
The Euro is an interesting experiment. The past successes of fixed exchange rates do
not bode well. Nor does basing it on a set of economies with serious financial
problems with pension overhang. At any exchange rate from the beginning of the Euro
proposal until today the Brits would be crazy to lock in the strong pound.
In any case, if the super state is to be all or nothing Britain would be far better
off with nothing. It would help their economy according to non-political economic
analysis discussed in The Economist last fall.
Frank Matthews
News wrote:
>>And ofcourse I wasn't serious about kicking the UK out. But it is about
>>
> time
>
>>the Brits make up their minds: either you are in the EU and participate,
>>
> or
>
>>you are not in and go on your own. It is your choice, but please make that
>>choice soon.
>>
>
> The frustration can definately be understood. "Shit or get off the pot" at it's
> finest! All of the countries that have already enetered into the Euro
> "Experiment" (For lack of a better word) are taking the risk that things might
> not work out as well as they hope. To sit by and wait for the outcome before
> making a decision isn't really very fair. It's like people who wait until the
> Championship Game is won before they decide who to cheer for. I can undertand why
> it could be infuriating. And besides, all of the "Yes we will...then again maybe
> we won't" talk can't really be very good for the Euro's value on international
> markets.
>
Jul 5th 2002, 5:20 am
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
"Jim Ley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 04 Jul 2002 23:04:09 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>
> >News <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Ask yourself (Posed to everyone, nobody in particular) would you rather earn
> >> $50,000 per year for the rest of your life, with the potential of occasional 10%
> >> increases or decreases - Or would you rather earn
$30,000
> >> per year with the potential for 50% increases or decreases.
> >
> >Hmmm.
> >
> >$30000 + 50% = $45000.
> $45000 + 50% = $67500
>
> $50000 +10% = 55000 $55000 + 10% = $60500
>
> So after only 2 years you're well ahead with the 30000 start.
>
It's nice to see that you guys can do simple math, but you're missing the point
entirely. The math you guys are doing shows that the higher percentage increase
yields a higher return, but you fail to look at the opposite siutation.
$30000 - 50% = $15000. $15000 - 50% = $7500
$50000 - 10% = $45000 $45000 - 10% = $40500
First of all, the numbers were picked at random, and were not really intended to be
used for any real calculations. What you have done is shown what an economy can do
during a Boom Time. What I have shown is what can happen during a Bust Time. Your
quote of "So after only 2 years you're well ahead with the 30000 start" is true if
the economy is going great, but look what happens after only a couple of bad years.
You've lost your shirt, whereas with a more balanced approach (The one with a lower
risk/reward ratio) you still have plenty with which to recover.
By not fully joining the EU and adopting the Euro, countries run a considerably
higher risk. The payoff may be greater, but god forbid something go wrong in the
isolated economy. You laugh at the idea now, but when hard times hit Europe (Which
they eventually will - Nothing grows forever) I'd wager to say it'll hurt the
isolationist states *Much* worse than those fully inside the EU Economic Community.
It's (More or Less) what happened in South America with Argentina.
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 04 Jul 2002 23:04:09 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>
> >News <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Ask yourself (Posed to everyone, nobody in particular) would you rather earn
> >> $50,000 per year for the rest of your life, with the potential of occasional 10%
> >> increases or decreases - Or would you rather earn
$30,000
> >> per year with the potential for 50% increases or decreases.
> >
> >Hmmm.
> >
> >$30000 + 50% = $45000.
> $45000 + 50% = $67500
>
> $50000 +10% = 55000 $55000 + 10% = $60500
>
> So after only 2 years you're well ahead with the 30000 start.
>
It's nice to see that you guys can do simple math, but you're missing the point
entirely. The math you guys are doing shows that the higher percentage increase
yields a higher return, but you fail to look at the opposite siutation.
$30000 - 50% = $15000. $15000 - 50% = $7500
$50000 - 10% = $45000 $45000 - 10% = $40500
First of all, the numbers were picked at random, and were not really intended to be
used for any real calculations. What you have done is shown what an economy can do
during a Boom Time. What I have shown is what can happen during a Bust Time. Your
quote of "So after only 2 years you're well ahead with the 30000 start" is true if
the economy is going great, but look what happens after only a couple of bad years.
You've lost your shirt, whereas with a more balanced approach (The one with a lower
risk/reward ratio) you still have plenty with which to recover.
By not fully joining the EU and adopting the Euro, countries run a considerably
higher risk. The payoff may be greater, but god forbid something go wrong in the
isolated economy. You laugh at the idea now, but when hard times hit Europe (Which
they eventually will - Nothing grows forever) I'd wager to say it'll hurt the
isolationist states *Much* worse than those fully inside the EU Economic Community.
It's (More or Less) what happened in South America with Argentina.
