OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
Jul 3rd 2002, 7:49 pm
#31
Dugongidae Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Wimbledon, England
Posts: 441
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
I think our foreign friends are missing one of the key concerns is not protectionism or queen and country that is creating such resistance in the UK but the political problems that are apparent in the eu at this time. The monetary union does not look very stable to me and lets face it the euro is mainly strengthing because of the problems in US. Will this continue ? Is it really OK that the EU monetary union rule books are being rewritten to accomodate France and Germany. Portugal is blowing itself apart.
Nobody is really considering pulling back from Europe as far as I am aware. UK by it's geography should be part of Europe and we play our part and contibute our required share of funds. Trade has been at the heart of England for many centuries and hopefully will always be that way. However until the time is right, if ever, the foreign exchange markets works very well and can continue to do so. The largest and most sophisticated foreign exchange market just happens to be in London so we should be OK there.
Like it or not UK is a very large economy and there are major issues with fixing exchange rates permantly. Argentina has been quoted here although surely this acts more as an example of the inherent problems in all of this rather than a shining example to be followed.
Nobody is really considering pulling back from Europe as far as I am aware. UK by it's geography should be part of Europe and we play our part and contibute our required share of funds. Trade has been at the heart of England for many centuries and hopefully will always be that way. However until the time is right, if ever, the foreign exchange markets works very well and can continue to do so. The largest and most sophisticated foreign exchange market just happens to be in London so we should be OK there.
Like it or not UK is a very large economy and there are major issues with fixing exchange rates permantly. Argentina has been quoted here although surely this acts more as an example of the inherent problems in all of this rather than a shining example to be followed.
Jul 3rd 2002, 9:21 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
snip
> >
> > Who exactly is offended - Hitler is being ridiculed,
>
> He is not being ridiculed. What is being ridiculed is the fact that 12 nations have
> democratically decided to use a common currency. snip
No, thats where you are wrong. Its not democraticly decided. Only we in Denmark got
to vote, and we said no!! Its in fact a very undemocratic decision, made by people
who is very far away from everyday life.
In Germany, they call it the Teuro, since everything has become very expensive no. In
Denmark we said no, but sadly, the pressure from all the PC people will make people
say yes the next.
Kennet
> >
> > Who exactly is offended - Hitler is being ridiculed,
>
> He is not being ridiculed. What is being ridiculed is the fact that 12 nations have
> democratically decided to use a common currency. snip
No, thats where you are wrong. Its not democraticly decided. Only we in Denmark got
to vote, and we said no!! Its in fact a very undemocratic decision, made by people
who is very far away from everyday life.
In Germany, they call it the Teuro, since everything has become very expensive no. In
Denmark we said no, but sadly, the pressure from all the PC people will make people
say yes the next.
Kennet
Jul 3rd 2002, 9:21 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
On Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:18:56 +0100, "The Oik" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Oh, and check GBP vs. EUR for the last week
Which I think is as a clear an example of why being the Euro is a bad idea for
Britain, if such huge volatilities still exist between the countries it's surely
obvious that the economies are too different to share a currency - At the moment
those differences can be "smoothed" via currency change, without currency change the
pain is somewhere else.
Jim.
>Oh, and check GBP vs. EUR for the last week
Which I think is as a clear an example of why being the Euro is a bad idea for
Britain, if such huge volatilities still exist between the countries it's surely
obvious that the economies are too different to share a currency - At the moment
those differences can be "smoothed" via currency change, without currency change the
pain is somewhere else.
Jim.
Jul 3rd 2002, 11:20 pm
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
"Sjoerd" <[email protected]> writes:
> Soon, we'll kick the UK out of the EU and they can join their real friends (or so
> they believe) at the other side of the Atlantic.
Really? Well please just kick England out and leave Scotland in the EU
--
-- Chris.
> Soon, we'll kick the UK out of the EU and they can join their real friends (or so
> they believe) at the other side of the Atlantic.
Really? Well please just kick England out and leave Scotland in the EU
--
-- Chris.
Jul 3rd 2002, 11:20 pm
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
> No, thats where you are wrong. Its not democraticly decided. Only we in Denmark got
> to vote, and we said no!!
What a load of bollocks ! Denmark wasn't the only country to hold a referendum.
> In Germany, they call it the Teuro, since everything has become very expensive no.
True, but what's that got to do with the (apparent) offensiveness of the Ad? Tim.
> to vote, and we said no!!
What a load of bollocks ! Denmark wasn't the only country to hold a referendum.
> In Germany, they call it the Teuro, since everything has become very expensive no.
True, but what's that got to do with the (apparent) offensiveness of the Ad? Tim.
Jul 3rd 2002, 11:20 pm
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
"Tim Challenger" <[email protected]> skrev i en meddelelse
news:[email protected]...
> > No, thats where you are wrong. Its not democraticly decided. Only we in Denmark
> > got to vote, and we said no!!
>
> What a load of bollocks ! Denmark wasn't the only country to hold a referendum.
Who else did? (not counting referendums on yes or no to EU as such) Denmark was the
only one to hold a referendum on yes or no to the Euro
> > In Germany, they call it the Teuro, since everything has become very
> > expensive no.
> True, but what's that got to do with the (apparent) offensiveness of the
Ad?
> Tim.
It had nothing to do with that, but was a commentar to the postulate, that the Euro
is a democratic decision.
Kennet
>
news:[email protected]...
> > No, thats where you are wrong. Its not democraticly decided. Only we in Denmark
> > got to vote, and we said no!!
>
> What a load of bollocks ! Denmark wasn't the only country to hold a referendum.
Who else did? (not counting referendums on yes or no to EU as such) Denmark was the
only one to hold a referendum on yes or no to the Euro
> > In Germany, they call it the Teuro, since everything has become very
> > expensive no.
> True, but what's that got to do with the (apparent) offensiveness of the
Ad?
> Tim.
It had nothing to do with that, but was a commentar to the postulate, that the Euro
is a democratic decision.
Kennet
>
Jul 3rd 2002, 11:20 pm
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
"Sjoerd" <[email protected]> writes:
> Dream on on your little island.......
You seem to hate British people. Get a sense of proportion.
--
-- Chris.
> Dream on on your little island.......
You seem to hate British people. Get a sense of proportion.
--
-- Chris.
Jul 3rd 2002, 11:20 pm
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
> > What a load of bollocks ! Denmark wasn't the only country to hold a referendum.
>
> Who else did? (not counting referendums on yes or no to EU as such)
Denmark
> was the only one to hold a referendum on yes or no to the Euro
Austria
>
> Who else did? (not counting referendums on yes or no to EU as such)
Denmark
> was the only one to hold a referendum on yes or no to the Euro
Austria
Jul 4th 2002, 12:20 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
Dick Locke wrote:
>
> "Sjoerd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_...00/2090583.stm
> >
> > . Soon, we'll kick the UK out of the EU and they can join their real friends (or
> > so they believe) at the other side of the Atlantic.
> >
> > Sjoerd
> >
> >
> It's all planned for. England gets to be states number 51-53, Scotland and
> Wales get to be 54 and 55 respecively and Ulster will be administratively
> merged into Texas.
Culturally, Idaho would be a better match.
Barbara
>
> "Sjoerd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_...00/2090583.stm
> >
> > . Soon, we'll kick the UK out of the EU and they can join their real friends (or
> > so they believe) at the other side of the Atlantic.
> >
> > Sjoerd
> >
> >
> It's all planned for. England gets to be states number 51-53, Scotland and
> Wales get to be 54 and 55 respecively and Ulster will be administratively
> merged into Texas.
Culturally, Idaho would be a better match.
Barbara
Jul 4th 2002, 1:20 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
> > ... and Ulster will be administratively merged into Texas.
>
> Culturally, Idaho would be a better match.
Gosh. Remind me not to go to Idaho - I didn't realise the Protestants and Catholics
there hated each other so much
--
-- Chris.
>
> Culturally, Idaho would be a better match.
Gosh. Remind me not to go to Idaho - I didn't realise the Protestants and Catholics
there hated each other so much
--
-- Chris.
Jul 4th 2002, 3:20 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
Steady on, Sjoerd! Frankly, I think your over-reaction plays into the hands of those
you are attacking. I don't like Blair, but I think that he's right to play this cool.
My newspaper (the Guardian) ran this on pages 1 and 2 yesterday, finally mentioning
on page 2 that there was an "orchestrated campaign" against the ad. I think that by
the time they had read that far, most people could work that out for themselves and
would wonder why the Guardian was participating in the orchestration. The "usual
suspects" were wheeled out - Nagler and Janner to play the Holocaust sympathy card;
pompous has-been politicians Jenkins and Brittan, and so on. I think that the
pro-Euro camp has been badly shaken by the appearance of a popular comedian like Rik
Mayall (Hitler in the ad, Alan B'Stard in "The New Statesman") and of Bob Geldof in
an anti-Euro campaign. The campaign against the ad is a panic reaction, I think.
I would be more likely to vote in favour of the Euro than against. (I can think of
solid ideological reasons to vote against, but I think that the practical economic
case at present is in favour of the Euro.)
I think that Blair is essentially right to take the line that this is an economic
decision. British people are pretty good at divorcing sentimental patriotism from
their economic interest - look at all those £2 flags currently adorning the radio
aerials of £15,000 Volvos, Volkswagens and Citroens! ("Buy British" campaigns
conspicuously fail when they clash with the immediate economic interests of
customers.) As the pound falls to a more realistic rate against the Euro, people will
see less reason to stay out. Turning from citizen-as-consumer to citizen-as-producer,
perhaps the real deciding question will be, "Would you rather be paid your wages in
Euros or the dole in pounds?"
Trying, finally, to move back on topic, the Euro ceartinly makes travel in Europe a
great deal easier!
Alan Harrison
you are attacking. I don't like Blair, but I think that he's right to play this cool.
My newspaper (the Guardian) ran this on pages 1 and 2 yesterday, finally mentioning
on page 2 that there was an "orchestrated campaign" against the ad. I think that by
the time they had read that far, most people could work that out for themselves and
would wonder why the Guardian was participating in the orchestration. The "usual
suspects" were wheeled out - Nagler and Janner to play the Holocaust sympathy card;
pompous has-been politicians Jenkins and Brittan, and so on. I think that the
pro-Euro camp has been badly shaken by the appearance of a popular comedian like Rik
Mayall (Hitler in the ad, Alan B'Stard in "The New Statesman") and of Bob Geldof in
an anti-Euro campaign. The campaign against the ad is a panic reaction, I think.
I would be more likely to vote in favour of the Euro than against. (I can think of
solid ideological reasons to vote against, but I think that the practical economic
case at present is in favour of the Euro.)
I think that Blair is essentially right to take the line that this is an economic
decision. British people are pretty good at divorcing sentimental patriotism from
their economic interest - look at all those £2 flags currently adorning the radio
aerials of £15,000 Volvos, Volkswagens and Citroens! ("Buy British" campaigns
conspicuously fail when they clash with the immediate economic interests of
customers.) As the pound falls to a more realistic rate against the Euro, people will
see less reason to stay out. Turning from citizen-as-consumer to citizen-as-producer,
perhaps the real deciding question will be, "Would you rather be paid your wages in
Euros or the dole in pounds?"
Trying, finally, to move back on topic, the Euro ceartinly makes travel in Europe a
great deal easier!
Alan Harrison
Jul 4th 2002, 3:20 am
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
Barbara Vaughan wrote:
>
> Dick Locke wrote:
>
>>"Sjoerd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_...00/2090583.stm
>>>
>>>. Soon, we'll kick the UK out of the EU and they can join their real friends (or
>>> so they believe) at the other side of the Atlantic.
>>>
>>>Sjoerd
>>>
>>>
>>
>>It's all planned for. England gets to be states number 51-53, Scotland and
>>Wales get to be 54 and 55 respecively and Ulster will be administratively
>>merged into Texas.
>
>
> Culturally, Idaho would be a better match.
???
Potatoes? White supremacists?
>
> Dick Locke wrote:
>
>>"Sjoerd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_...00/2090583.stm
>>>
>>>. Soon, we'll kick the UK out of the EU and they can join their real friends (or
>>> so they believe) at the other side of the Atlantic.
>>>
>>>Sjoerd
>>>
>>>
>>
>>It's all planned for. England gets to be states number 51-53, Scotland and
>>Wales get to be 54 and 55 respecively and Ulster will be administratively
>>merged into Texas.
>
>
> Culturally, Idaho would be a better match.
???
Potatoes? White supremacists?
Jul 4th 2002, 3:20 am
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
"Frank Matthews" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Recent economic analysis indicates that the economic effect of departure from the
> EU would be positive for Britain. See the Economist in about November.
>
> Frank Matthews
It could very well be that way, but for how long? I assure you, when all the other
EU Countries (Or the bulk of them anyhow) form into a strong inter-dependant (Not
to mention virtually self-reliant) economy, Britain's economy will be hurt. It's
unfortunate, but when these big blocks start forming you either join or get left
out in the cold.
news:[email protected]...
> Recent economic analysis indicates that the economic effect of departure from the
> EU would be positive for Britain. See the Economist in about November.
>
> Frank Matthews
It could very well be that way, but for how long? I assure you, when all the other
EU Countries (Or the bulk of them anyhow) form into a strong inter-dependant (Not
to mention virtually self-reliant) economy, Britain's economy will be hurt. It's
unfortunate, but when these big blocks start forming you either join or get left
out in the cold.
Jul 4th 2002, 4:20 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
On Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:16:24 +0200, "Sjoerd"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_...00/2090583.stm
>
>So what tasteless methods will be taken next by the anti-euro people? It is a shame
>that Blair hasn't codemned this campaign. Soon, we'll kick the UK out of the EU and
>they can join their real friends (or so they believe) at the other side of the
>Atlantic.
Yeah! Let them team up with their real friends, Canada.
A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world
www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc...)
<[email protected]> wrote:
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_...00/2090583.stm
>
>So what tasteless methods will be taken next by the anti-euro people? It is a shame
>that Blair hasn't codemned this campaign. Soon, we'll kick the UK out of the EU and
>they can join their real friends (or so they believe) at the other side of the
>Atlantic.
Yeah! Let them team up with their real friends, Canada.
A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world
www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc...)
Jul 4th 2002, 4:20 am
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Brits use Adolf Hitler in anti-euro campaign
dans l'article [email protected], Sjoerd Ã
[email protected] a écrit le 3/07/02 21:16 :
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_...00/2090583.stm
>
> So what tasteless methods will be taken next by the anti-euro people? It is a shame
> that Blair hasn't codemned this campaign. Soon, we'll kick the UK out of the EU and
> they can join their real friends (or so they believe) at the other side of the
> Atlantic.
>
On this side of the Channel I am not sure anybody cares what the British do. They
same to have a need for being different, so let them. If they wish to play Springtime
for Hitler, hopefully they will have developed the art of being tasteless artfully.
The euro is mainly a convenience to those here who travel or do business in the EU
area. The phasing out of national currencies seems to have gone smoother, so far,
than people had anticipated. The Americans visiting seem to like it since the euro
and dollar are about the same, and they can judge prices better.
Earl
[email protected] a écrit le 3/07/02 21:16 :
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_...00/2090583.stm
>
> So what tasteless methods will be taken next by the anti-euro people? It is a shame
> that Blair hasn't codemned this campaign. Soon, we'll kick the UK out of the EU and
> they can join their real friends (or so they believe) at the other side of the
> Atlantic.
>
On this side of the Channel I am not sure anybody cares what the British do. They
same to have a need for being different, so let them. If they wish to play Springtime
for Hitler, hopefully they will have developed the art of being tasteless artfully.
The euro is mainly a convenience to those here who travel or do business in the EU
area. The phasing out of national currencies seems to have gone smoother, so far,
than people had anticipated. The Americans visiting seem to like it since the euro
and dollar are about the same, and they can judge prices better.
Earl
