Now that is funny
Jul 21st 2006 | 9:27 am
#1
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Posts: n/a
Now that is funny
Muslim cleric fails in bid to return
Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:24 AM BST165
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LONDON (Reuters) - A hardline Muslim cleric barred from Britain for
glorifying violence said on Friday he tried to get on board a British
warship to flee Beirut but was turned back.
"The answer was, 'unless you have a British passport you are not
entitled to come on board'," Omar Bakri told Sky News on Friday.
Syrian-born Bakri left Britain for Lebanon last August, saying he was
going on holiday, after Prime Minister Tony Blair pledged to silence
Islamists glorifying violence.
Bakri, who had lived in Britain for 20 years, said he had shown his
British driving licence and his cancelled British passport.
"I know myself I am not welcome in the UK ... but I have the right like
everyone else to safety," he said. "It is better to try and fail."
Britain barred him from returning to the country as part of a
government crackdown on Islamic preachers who it says inspires suicide
bombers like those who attacked London's transport system last year,
killing 52 people.
The Home Office said he had been barred because his presence was "not
conducive to the public good."
In an interview with Reuters in Beirut last August, the bearded cleric
said he had no intention of returning to Britain because of the way
Muslims there were being treated
Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:24 AM BST165
Email This Article | Print This Article | RSS
[-] Text [+]
LONDON (Reuters) - A hardline Muslim cleric barred from Britain for
glorifying violence said on Friday he tried to get on board a British
warship to flee Beirut but was turned back.
"The answer was, 'unless you have a British passport you are not
entitled to come on board'," Omar Bakri told Sky News on Friday.
Syrian-born Bakri left Britain for Lebanon last August, saying he was
going on holiday, after Prime Minister Tony Blair pledged to silence
Islamists glorifying violence.
Bakri, who had lived in Britain for 20 years, said he had shown his
British driving licence and his cancelled British passport.
"I know myself I am not welcome in the UK ... but I have the right like
everyone else to safety," he said. "It is better to try and fail."
Britain barred him from returning to the country as part of a
government crackdown on Islamic preachers who it says inspires suicide
bombers like those who attacked London's transport system last year,
killing 52 people.
The Home Office said he had been barred because his presence was "not
conducive to the public good."
In an interview with Reuters in Beirut last August, the bearded cleric
said he had no intention of returning to Britain because of the way
Muslims there were being treated
Jul 21st 2006 | 10:04 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Now that is funny
Delirium Tremens wrote:
> Muslim cleric fails in bid to return
> Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:24 AM BST165
> Email This Article | Print This Article | RSS
> [-] Text [+]
> LONDON (Reuters) - A hardline Muslim cleric barred from Britain for
> glorifying violence said on Friday he tried to get on board a British
> warship to flee Beirut but was turned back.
> "The answer was, 'unless you have a British passport you are not
> entitled to come on board'," Omar Bakri told Sky News on Friday.
> Syrian-born Bakri left Britain for Lebanon last August, saying he was
> going on holiday, after Prime Minister Tony Blair pledged to silence
> Islamists glorifying violence.
> Bakri, who had lived in Britain for 20 years, said he had shown his
> British driving licence and his cancelled British passport.
> "I know myself I am not welcome in the UK ... but I have the right like
> everyone else to safety," he said. "It is better to try and fail."
> Britain barred him from returning to the country as part of a
> government crackdown on Islamic preachers who it says inspires suicide
> bombers like those who attacked London's transport system last year,
> killing 52 people.
> The Home Office said he had been barred because his presence was "not
> conducive to the public good."
> In an interview with Reuters in Beirut last August, the bearded cleric
> said he had no intention of returning to Britain because of the way
> Muslims there were being treated
Now that is funny.
The only thin funnier would be if one of Hezbollah's rockets fell on him.
> Muslim cleric fails in bid to return
> Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:24 AM BST165
> Email This Article | Print This Article | RSS
> [-] Text [+]
> LONDON (Reuters) - A hardline Muslim cleric barred from Britain for
> glorifying violence said on Friday he tried to get on board a British
> warship to flee Beirut but was turned back.
> "The answer was, 'unless you have a British passport you are not
> entitled to come on board'," Omar Bakri told Sky News on Friday.
> Syrian-born Bakri left Britain for Lebanon last August, saying he was
> going on holiday, after Prime Minister Tony Blair pledged to silence
> Islamists glorifying violence.
> Bakri, who had lived in Britain for 20 years, said he had shown his
> British driving licence and his cancelled British passport.
> "I know myself I am not welcome in the UK ... but I have the right like
> everyone else to safety," he said. "It is better to try and fail."
> Britain barred him from returning to the country as part of a
> government crackdown on Islamic preachers who it says inspires suicide
> bombers like those who attacked London's transport system last year,
> killing 52 people.
> The Home Office said he had been barred because his presence was "not
> conducive to the public good."
> In an interview with Reuters in Beirut last August, the bearded cleric
> said he had no intention of returning to Britain because of the way
> Muslims there were being treated
Now that is funny.
The only thin funnier would be if one of Hezbollah's rockets fell on him.
Jul 21st 2006 | 8:28 pm
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
newport stupidman at it again
"Delirium Tremens" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news: [email protected] m...
> Muslim cleric fails in bid to return
> Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:24 AM BST165
> Email This Article | Print This Article | RSS
> [-] Text [+]
> LONDON (Reuters) - A hardline Muslim cleric barred from Britain for
> glorifying violence said on Friday he tried to get on board a British
> warship to flee Beirut but was turned back.
> "The answer was, 'unless you have a British passport you are not
> entitled to come on board'," Omar Bakri told Sky News on Friday.
> Syrian-born Bakri left Britain for Lebanon last August, saying he was
> going on holiday, after Prime Minister Tony Blair pledged to silence
> Islamists glorifying violence.
> Bakri, who had lived in Britain for 20 years, said he had shown his
> British driving licence and his cancelled British passport.
> "I know myself I am not welcome in the UK ... but I have the right like
> everyone else to safety," he said. "It is better to try and fail."
> Britain barred him from returning to the country as part of a
> government crackdown on Islamic preachers who it says inspires suicide
> bombers like those who attacked London's transport system last year,
> killing 52 people.
> The Home Office said he had been barred because his presence was "not
> conducive to the public good."
> In an interview with Reuters in Beirut last August, the bearded cleric
> said he had no intention of returning to Britain because of the way
> Muslims there were being treated
>
news: [email protected] m...
> Muslim cleric fails in bid to return
> Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:24 AM BST165
> Email This Article | Print This Article | RSS
> [-] Text [+]
> LONDON (Reuters) - A hardline Muslim cleric barred from Britain for
> glorifying violence said on Friday he tried to get on board a British
> warship to flee Beirut but was turned back.
> "The answer was, 'unless you have a British passport you are not
> entitled to come on board'," Omar Bakri told Sky News on Friday.
> Syrian-born Bakri left Britain for Lebanon last August, saying he was
> going on holiday, after Prime Minister Tony Blair pledged to silence
> Islamists glorifying violence.
> Bakri, who had lived in Britain for 20 years, said he had shown his
> British driving licence and his cancelled British passport.
> "I know myself I am not welcome in the UK ... but I have the right like
> everyone else to safety," he said. "It is better to try and fail."
> Britain barred him from returning to the country as part of a
> government crackdown on Islamic preachers who it says inspires suicide
> bombers like those who attacked London's transport system last year,
> killing 52 people.
> The Home Office said he had been barred because his presence was "not
> conducive to the public good."
> In an interview with Reuters in Beirut last August, the bearded cleric
> said he had no intention of returning to Britain because of the way
> Muslims there were being treated
>
Jul 21st 2006 | 8:51 pm
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Now that is funny
Dave Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
> Delirium Tremens wrote:
>
> > Muslim cleric fails in bid to return
> > Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:24 AM BST165
> > Email This Article | Print This Article | RSS
> > [-] Text [+]
> >
> > LONDON (Reuters) - A hardline Muslim cleric barred from Britain for
> > glorifying violence said on Friday he tried to get on board a British
> > warship to flee Beirut but was turned back.
[]
> Now that is funny.
> The only thin funnier would be if one of Hezbollah's rockets fell on him.
It's funny, maybe. However, I've never seen any evidence that Bakri
murdered anyone, or even directly led to murder through incitement. If
he had, he'd be in a UK prison, instead of being cowardly banned from
re-entering when he left temporarily. So far, the Israelis have murdered
several hundred civilians in this current onslaught. Hezbollah have
killed a fraction of that- Israel are equating themselves morally with
Hezbollah, except with a more powerful killing machine.
So, yes, let's all have a laugh that some moron cleric who said
unpleasant things is kept out of the UK. It makes me feel a lot safer,
that's for sure. I can barely contain my laughter.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
> Delirium Tremens wrote:
>
> > Muslim cleric fails in bid to return
> > Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:24 AM BST165
> > Email This Article | Print This Article | RSS
> > [-] Text [+]
> >
> > LONDON (Reuters) - A hardline Muslim cleric barred from Britain for
> > glorifying violence said on Friday he tried to get on board a British
> > warship to flee Beirut but was turned back.
[]
> Now that is funny.
> The only thin funnier would be if one of Hezbollah's rockets fell on him.
It's funny, maybe. However, I've never seen any evidence that Bakri
murdered anyone, or even directly led to murder through incitement. If
he had, he'd be in a UK prison, instead of being cowardly banned from
re-entering when he left temporarily. So far, the Israelis have murdered
several hundred civilians in this current onslaught. Hezbollah have
killed a fraction of that- Israel are equating themselves morally with
Hezbollah, except with a more powerful killing machine.
So, yes, let's all have a laugh that some moron cleric who said
unpleasant things is kept out of the UK. It makes me feel a lot safer,
that's for sure. I can barely contain my laughter.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
Jul 21st 2006 | 9:18 pm
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Now that is funny
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:51:28 +0100, [email protected]
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate) wrote:
>Dave Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Delirium Tremens wrote:
>>
>> > Muslim cleric fails in bid to return
>> > Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:24 AM BST165
>> > Email This Article | Print This Article | RSS
>> > [-] Text [+]
>> >
>> > LONDON (Reuters) - A hardline Muslim cleric barred from Britain for
>> > glorifying violence said on Friday he tried to get on board a British
>> > warship to flee Beirut but was turned back.
>[]
>> Now that is funny.
>> The only thin funnier would be if one of Hezbollah's rockets fell on him.
>It's funny, maybe. However, I've never seen any evidence that Bakri
>murdered anyone, or even directly led to murder through incitement. If
>he had, he'd be in a UK prison, instead of being cowardly banned from
>re-entering when he left temporarily.
When he left he said he never intended to return to the UK ever. On
the BBC Radio 4 the other morning he claimed that when he said this he
didn't actually mean for ever and ever.
> So far, the Israelis have murdered
>several hundred civilians in this current onslaught. Hezbollah have
>killed a fraction of that- Israel are equating themselves morally with
>Hezbollah, except with a more powerful killing machine.
>So, yes, let's all have a laugh that some moron cleric who said
>unpleasant things is kept out of the UK. It makes me feel a lot safer,
>that's for sure. I can barely contain my laughter.
He hates Britain and all things British as far as I am concerned he
can **** off.
--
Martin
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate) wrote:
>Dave Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Delirium Tremens wrote:
>>
>> > Muslim cleric fails in bid to return
>> > Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:24 AM BST165
>> > Email This Article | Print This Article | RSS
>> > [-] Text [+]
>> >
>> > LONDON (Reuters) - A hardline Muslim cleric barred from Britain for
>> > glorifying violence said on Friday he tried to get on board a British
>> > warship to flee Beirut but was turned back.
>[]
>> Now that is funny.
>> The only thin funnier would be if one of Hezbollah's rockets fell on him.
>It's funny, maybe. However, I've never seen any evidence that Bakri
>murdered anyone, or even directly led to murder through incitement. If
>he had, he'd be in a UK prison, instead of being cowardly banned from
>re-entering when he left temporarily.
When he left he said he never intended to return to the UK ever. On
the BBC Radio 4 the other morning he claimed that when he said this he
didn't actually mean for ever and ever.
> So far, the Israelis have murdered
>several hundred civilians in this current onslaught. Hezbollah have
>killed a fraction of that- Israel are equating themselves morally with
>Hezbollah, except with a more powerful killing machine.
>So, yes, let's all have a laugh that some moron cleric who said
>unpleasant things is kept out of the UK. It makes me feel a lot safer,
>that's for sure. I can barely contain my laughter.
He hates Britain and all things British as far as I am concerned he
can **** off.
--
Martin
Jul 21st 2006 | 9:26 pm
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Now that is funny
Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:51:28 +0100, [email protected]
> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
> deansgate) wrote:
[]
> >So, yes, let's all have a laugh that some moron cleric who said
> >unpleasant things is kept out of the UK. It makes me feel a lot safer,
> >that's for sure. I can barely contain my laughter.
>
> He hates Britain and all things British as far as I am concerned he
> can **** off.
I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
think that the London bombers were martyrs. That's a serious and
complicated issue which needs to be addressed, and frankly isn't- at
least not by the government who refuse to hold any kind of public
enquiry into the wider issues surrounding the bombings, and what
motivated them. Bakri is saying things which some British muslims (and
non-muslims) already believe- banning him from returning doesn't change
any of that- though I suppose it's a useful diversion for the
government, who can be seen to be 'doing something.'
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:51:28 +0100, [email protected]
> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
> deansgate) wrote:
[]
> >So, yes, let's all have a laugh that some moron cleric who said
> >unpleasant things is kept out of the UK. It makes me feel a lot safer,
> >that's for sure. I can barely contain my laughter.
>
> He hates Britain and all things British as far as I am concerned he
> can **** off.
I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
think that the London bombers were martyrs. That's a serious and
complicated issue which needs to be addressed, and frankly isn't- at
least not by the government who refuse to hold any kind of public
enquiry into the wider issues surrounding the bombings, and what
motivated them. Bakri is saying things which some British muslims (and
non-muslims) already believe- banning him from returning doesn't change
any of that- though I suppose it's a useful diversion for the
government, who can be seen to be 'doing something.'
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
Jul 21st 2006 | 9:36 pm
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Now that is funny
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:51:28 +0100, [email protected]
>> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
>> deansgate) wrote:
>[]
>> >So, yes, let's all have a laugh that some moron cleric who said
>> >unpleasant things is kept out of the UK. It makes me feel a lot safer,
>> >that's for sure. I can barely contain my laughter.
>>
>> He hates Britain and all things British as far as I am concerned he
>> can **** off.
>I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
>think that the London bombers were martyrs. That's a serious and
>complicated issue which needs to be addressed,
A bit late now. The problem of institutional racism needed to be
addressed thirty or forty years ago.
> and frankly isn't- at
>least not by the government who refuse to hold any kind of public
>enquiry into the wider issues surrounding the bombings, and what
>motivated them. Bakri is saying things which some British muslims (and
>non-muslims) already believe- banning him from returning doesn't change
>any of that- though I suppose it's a useful diversion for the
>government, who can be seen to be 'doing something.'
I can't see any reason to let him return, maybe those who think the
bombers are martyrs should join him in Beirut.
--
Martin
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:51:28 +0100, [email protected]
>> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
>> deansgate) wrote:
>[]
>> >So, yes, let's all have a laugh that some moron cleric who said
>> >unpleasant things is kept out of the UK. It makes me feel a lot safer,
>> >that's for sure. I can barely contain my laughter.
>>
>> He hates Britain and all things British as far as I am concerned he
>> can **** off.
>I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
>think that the London bombers were martyrs. That's a serious and
>complicated issue which needs to be addressed,
A bit late now. The problem of institutional racism needed to be
addressed thirty or forty years ago.
> and frankly isn't- at
>least not by the government who refuse to hold any kind of public
>enquiry into the wider issues surrounding the bombings, and what
>motivated them. Bakri is saying things which some British muslims (and
>non-muslims) already believe- banning him from returning doesn't change
>any of that- though I suppose it's a useful diversion for the
>government, who can be seen to be 'doing something.'
I can't see any reason to let him return, maybe those who think the
bombers are martyrs should join him in Beirut.
--
Martin
Jul 21st 2006 | 9:49 pm
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Now that is funny
Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
> deansgate) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:51:28 +0100, [email protected]
> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
> >> deansgate) wrote:
> >[]
> >> >So, yes, let's all have a laugh that some moron cleric who said
> >> >unpleasant things is kept out of the UK. It makes me feel a lot safer,
> >> >that's for sure. I can barely contain my laughter.
> >>
> >> He hates Britain and all things British as far as I am concerned he
> >> can **** off.
> >
> >I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
> >think that the London bombers were martyrs. That's a serious and
> >complicated issue which needs to be addressed,
>
> A bit late now. The problem of institutional racism needed to be
> addressed thirty or forty years ago.
It's not just racism. You had riots in Toxteth and Brixton, not suicide
bombers. Yes, racism is a root cause, but extremist islamic beliefs
enter mix with that, and I have no doubt that recent UK policies abroad
have served to further ignite it.
> > and frankly isn't- at
> >least not by the government who refuse to hold any kind of public
> >enquiry into the wider issues surrounding the bombings, and what
> >motivated them. Bakri is saying things which some British muslims (and
> >non-muslims) already believe- banning him from returning doesn't change
> >any of that- though I suppose it's a useful diversion for the
> >government, who can be seen to be 'doing something.'
>
> I can't see any reason to let him return,
He has seven UK born children living here for a start.
> maybe those who think the
> bombers are martyrs should join him in Beirut.
They're probably mostly citizens.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
> deansgate) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:51:28 +0100, [email protected]
> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
> >> deansgate) wrote:
> >[]
> >> >So, yes, let's all have a laugh that some moron cleric who said
> >> >unpleasant things is kept out of the UK. It makes me feel a lot safer,
> >> >that's for sure. I can barely contain my laughter.
> >>
> >> He hates Britain and all things British as far as I am concerned he
> >> can **** off.
> >
> >I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
> >think that the London bombers were martyrs. That's a serious and
> >complicated issue which needs to be addressed,
>
> A bit late now. The problem of institutional racism needed to be
> addressed thirty or forty years ago.
It's not just racism. You had riots in Toxteth and Brixton, not suicide
bombers. Yes, racism is a root cause, but extremist islamic beliefs
enter mix with that, and I have no doubt that recent UK policies abroad
have served to further ignite it.
> > and frankly isn't- at
> >least not by the government who refuse to hold any kind of public
> >enquiry into the wider issues surrounding the bombings, and what
> >motivated them. Bakri is saying things which some British muslims (and
> >non-muslims) already believe- banning him from returning doesn't change
> >any of that- though I suppose it's a useful diversion for the
> >government, who can be seen to be 'doing something.'
>
> I can't see any reason to let him return,
He has seven UK born children living here for a start.
> maybe those who think the
> bombers are martyrs should join him in Beirut.
They're probably mostly citizens.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
Jul 21st 2006 | 10:01 pm
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Now that is funny
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:49:03 +0100, [email protected]
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
>> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
>> deansgate) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:51:28 +0100, [email protected]
>> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
>> >> deansgate) wrote:
>> >[]
>> >> >So, yes, let's all have a laugh that some moron cleric who said
>> >> >unpleasant things is kept out of the UK. It makes me feel a lot safer,
>> >> >that's for sure. I can barely contain my laughter.
>> >>
>> >> He hates Britain and all things British as far as I am concerned he
>> >> can **** off.
>> >
>> >I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
>> >think that the London bombers were martyrs. That's a serious and
>> >complicated issue which needs to be addressed,
>>
>> A bit late now. The problem of institutional racism needed to be
>> addressed thirty or forty years ago.
>It's not just racism. You had riots in Toxteth and Brixton, not suicide
>bombers.
and you had IRA bombers who were not effected by racism [Ed: Touch of
the Mixi logic creeping in here]
> Yes, racism is a root cause, but extremist islamic beliefs
>enter mix with that, and I have no doubt that recent UK policies abroad
>have served to further ignite it.
>> > and frankly isn't- at
>> >least not by the government who refuse to hold any kind of public
>> >enquiry into the wider issues surrounding the bombings, and what
>> >motivated them. Bakri is saying things which some British muslims (and
>> >non-muslims) already believe- banning him from returning doesn't change
>> >any of that- though I suppose it's a useful diversion for the
>> >government, who can be seen to be 'doing something.'
>>
>> I can't see any reason to let him return,
>He has seven UK born children living here for a start.
They could join him in Beirut. I assume they have dual nationality?
Why is/are their mother(s) never mentioned?
>> maybe those who think the
>> bombers are martyrs should join him in Beirut.
>They're probably mostly citizens.
I am sure they are. :-)
Plenty of Jews have kept British passports and moved to Israel. Take
Dame Shirley Porter, for example. :-)
You have almost turned me into a Mrs Verdonk supporter. :-)
Maybe Afghanistan should be set up as the promised land for
disillusioned muslim extremists. What do you mean they tried that?
--
Martin
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
>> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
>> deansgate) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:51:28 +0100, [email protected]
>> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
>> >> deansgate) wrote:
>> >[]
>> >> >So, yes, let's all have a laugh that some moron cleric who said
>> >> >unpleasant things is kept out of the UK. It makes me feel a lot safer,
>> >> >that's for sure. I can barely contain my laughter.
>> >>
>> >> He hates Britain and all things British as far as I am concerned he
>> >> can **** off.
>> >
>> >I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
>> >think that the London bombers were martyrs. That's a serious and
>> >complicated issue which needs to be addressed,
>>
>> A bit late now. The problem of institutional racism needed to be
>> addressed thirty or forty years ago.
>It's not just racism. You had riots in Toxteth and Brixton, not suicide
>bombers.
and you had IRA bombers who were not effected by racism [Ed: Touch of
the Mixi logic creeping in here]
> Yes, racism is a root cause, but extremist islamic beliefs
>enter mix with that, and I have no doubt that recent UK policies abroad
>have served to further ignite it.
>> > and frankly isn't- at
>> >least not by the government who refuse to hold any kind of public
>> >enquiry into the wider issues surrounding the bombings, and what
>> >motivated them. Bakri is saying things which some British muslims (and
>> >non-muslims) already believe- banning him from returning doesn't change
>> >any of that- though I suppose it's a useful diversion for the
>> >government, who can be seen to be 'doing something.'
>>
>> I can't see any reason to let him return,
>He has seven UK born children living here for a start.
They could join him in Beirut. I assume they have dual nationality?
Why is/are their mother(s) never mentioned?
>> maybe those who think the
>> bombers are martyrs should join him in Beirut.
>They're probably mostly citizens.
I am sure they are. :-)
Plenty of Jews have kept British passports and moved to Israel. Take
Dame Shirley Porter, for example. :-)
You have almost turned me into a Mrs Verdonk supporter. :-)
Maybe Afghanistan should be set up as the promised land for
disillusioned muslim extremists. What do you mean they tried that?
--
Martin
Jul 21st 2006 | 10:19 pm
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Now that is funny
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate) wrote:
>I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
>think that the London bombers were martyrs.
I don't understand why it isn't more - I think they were martyrs too,
are the education levels of the UK that depressed that the other 6/7's
don't know what a martyr is?
I certainly believe they were martyrs - martyr has no positive
overtones in any sense I've ever seen, so given a pollster asking me,
I'd've course also said yes - it doesn't show any support for their
actions.
> That's a serious and
>complicated issue which needs to be addressed, and frankly isn't-
Whilst it is a serious issue, I don't see how a poll saying 1/7
believe they were martyr show it.
> Bakri is saying things which some British muslims (and
>non-muslims) already believe- banning him from returning doesn't change
>any of that- though I suppose it's a useful diversion for the
>government, who can be seen to be 'doing something.'
Indeed, there's certainly no reason to ban him, and he absolutely
should have been evacuated, ditto many other nationalities...
Jim.
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate) wrote:
>I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
>think that the London bombers were martyrs.
I don't understand why it isn't more - I think they were martyrs too,
are the education levels of the UK that depressed that the other 6/7's
don't know what a martyr is?
I certainly believe they were martyrs - martyr has no positive
overtones in any sense I've ever seen, so given a pollster asking me,
I'd've course also said yes - it doesn't show any support for their
actions.
> That's a serious and
>complicated issue which needs to be addressed, and frankly isn't-
Whilst it is a serious issue, I don't see how a poll saying 1/7
believe they were martyr show it.
> Bakri is saying things which some British muslims (and
>non-muslims) already believe- banning him from returning doesn't change
>any of that- though I suppose it's a useful diversion for the
>government, who can be seen to be 'doing something.'
Indeed, there's certainly no reason to ban him, and he absolutely
should have been evacuated, ditto many other nationalities...
Jim.
Jul 21st 2006 | 10:27 pm
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Now that is funny
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:19:16 GMT, [email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote:
>On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
>(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
>deansgate) wrote:
>>I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
>>think that the London bombers were martyrs.
>I don't understand why it isn't more - I think they were martyrs too,
To be a martyr one needs to have been put to death for ones faith, not
blown once self up in a suicide attack that killed more than 50
innocent people.
>are the education levels of the UK that depressed that the other 6/7's
>don't know what a martyr is?
Looks like it :-)
>I certainly believe they were martyrs - martyr has no positive
>overtones in any sense I've ever seen, so given a pollster asking me,
>I'd've course also said yes - it doesn't show any support for their
>actions.
>> That's a serious and
>>complicated issue which needs to be addressed, and frankly isn't-
>Whilst it is a serious issue, I don't see how a poll saying 1/7
>believe they were martyr show it.
>> Bakri is saying things which some British muslims (and
>>non-muslims) already believe- banning him from returning doesn't change
>>any of that- though I suppose it's a useful diversion for the
>>government, who can be seen to be 'doing something.'
>Indeed, there's certainly no reason to ban him, and he absolutely
>should have been evacuated, ditto many other nationalities...
He hasn't a valid British Passport. A valid British passport was the
criteria for accepting evacuation by the MOD/F&CO.
--
Martin
>On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
>(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
>deansgate) wrote:
>>I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
>>think that the London bombers were martyrs.
>I don't understand why it isn't more - I think they were martyrs too,
To be a martyr one needs to have been put to death for ones faith, not
blown once self up in a suicide attack that killed more than 50
innocent people.
>are the education levels of the UK that depressed that the other 6/7's
>don't know what a martyr is?
Looks like it :-)
>I certainly believe they were martyrs - martyr has no positive
>overtones in any sense I've ever seen, so given a pollster asking me,
>I'd've course also said yes - it doesn't show any support for their
>actions.
>> That's a serious and
>>complicated issue which needs to be addressed, and frankly isn't-
>Whilst it is a serious issue, I don't see how a poll saying 1/7
>believe they were martyr show it.
>> Bakri is saying things which some British muslims (and
>>non-muslims) already believe- banning him from returning doesn't change
>>any of that- though I suppose it's a useful diversion for the
>>government, who can be seen to be 'doing something.'
>Indeed, there's certainly no reason to ban him, and he absolutely
>should have been evacuated, ditto many other nationalities...
He hasn't a valid British Passport. A valid British passport was the
criteria for accepting evacuation by the MOD/F&CO.
--
Martin
Jul 21st 2006 | 10:42 pm
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Now that is funny
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:27:25 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:19:16 GMT, [email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote:
>>On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
>>(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
>>deansgate) wrote:
>>>I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
>>>think that the London bombers were martyrs.
>>I don't understand why it isn't more - I think they were martyrs too,
>To be a martyr one needs to have been put to death for ones faith,
No you don't, there are lots of usages of martyr that do not involve
being "put to death" - including lots of people who martyr themselves
in warfare etc.
>>Indeed, there's certainly no reason to ban him, and he absolutely
>>should have been evacuated, ditto many other nationalities...
>He hasn't a valid British Passport. A valid British passport was the
>criteria for accepting evacuation by the MOD/F&CO.
Which is a shite criteria and shows the contempt that they have for
human life - just like we can see the news now, we're not taking a
boat in because there aren't enough people wanting to be evacuated -
at the same time as there are thousands of other people wanting to be
evacuated - including other subjects of Her Majesty, or do you believe
Her Majesty's Royal Navy have no responsbility to her subjects?
Jim.
>On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:19:16 GMT, [email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote:
>>On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
>>(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
>>deansgate) wrote:
>>>I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
>>>think that the London bombers were martyrs.
>>I don't understand why it isn't more - I think they were martyrs too,
>To be a martyr one needs to have been put to death for ones faith,
No you don't, there are lots of usages of martyr that do not involve
being "put to death" - including lots of people who martyr themselves
in warfare etc.
>>Indeed, there's certainly no reason to ban him, and he absolutely
>>should have been evacuated, ditto many other nationalities...
>He hasn't a valid British Passport. A valid British passport was the
>criteria for accepting evacuation by the MOD/F&CO.
Which is a shite criteria and shows the contempt that they have for
human life - just like we can see the news now, we're not taking a
boat in because there aren't enough people wanting to be evacuated -
at the same time as there are thousands of other people wanting to be
evacuated - including other subjects of Her Majesty, or do you believe
Her Majesty's Royal Navy have no responsbility to her subjects?
Jim.
Jul 21st 2006 | 10:46 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Now that is funny
Jim Ley <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:27:25 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:19:16 GMT, [email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote:
> >
> >>On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
> >>(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
> >>deansgate) wrote:
> >>
> >>>I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
> >>>think that the London bombers were martyrs.
> >>
> >>I don't understand why it isn't more - I think they were martyrs too,
> >
> >To be a martyr one needs to have been put to death for ones faith,
>
> No you don't, there are lots of usages of martyr that do not involve
> being "put to death" - including lots of people who martyr themselves
> in warfare etc.
That's it- there are lots of usages of the word, and frankly, one's
opinion on the 'right' or 'wrong' of the bombers' actions is what
informs the choice of the use of the term martyr to describe the London
bombers. It's not about ill-education, as you rather patronisingly
suggested, and if you think they were martyrs I think you're wrong.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:27:25 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:19:16 GMT, [email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote:
> >
> >>On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
> >>(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
> >>deansgate) wrote:
> >>
> >>>I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
> >>>think that the London bombers were martyrs.
> >>
> >>I don't understand why it isn't more - I think they were martyrs too,
> >
> >To be a martyr one needs to have been put to death for ones faith,
>
> No you don't, there are lots of usages of martyr that do not involve
> being "put to death" - including lots of people who martyr themselves
> in warfare etc.
That's it- there are lots of usages of the word, and frankly, one's
opinion on the 'right' or 'wrong' of the bombers' actions is what
informs the choice of the use of the term martyr to describe the London
bombers. It's not about ill-education, as you rather patronisingly
suggested, and if you think they were martyrs I think you're wrong.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
Jul 21st 2006 | 10:49 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Now that is funny
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:46:40 +0100, [email protected]
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate) wrote:
>That's it- there are lots of usages of the word, and frankly, one's
>opinion on the 'right' or 'wrong' of the bombers' actions is what
>informs the choice of the use of the term martyr to describe the London
>bombers.
Definately not, I would not be so rude as to not call someone a martyr
simply because I disagreed with the cause or conviction they felt - it
would make it rather difficult for me to ever use the word - certainly
all religious martyrs I would not be able to agree with, as I
absolutely do not believe their convictions are "right".
> It's not about ill-education, as you rather patronisingly
>suggested, and if you think they were martyrs I think you're wrong.
So they didn't die because of their beliefs - well that's entirely
possible, we don't really know much about their motivations, but it
doesn't seem an unreasonable supposition to me, and if you're going to
equate it to islamic beliefs as you did, then I can't see you're
claiming any other motive.
Jim.
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate) wrote:
>That's it- there are lots of usages of the word, and frankly, one's
>opinion on the 'right' or 'wrong' of the bombers' actions is what
>informs the choice of the use of the term martyr to describe the London
>bombers.
Definately not, I would not be so rude as to not call someone a martyr
simply because I disagreed with the cause or conviction they felt - it
would make it rather difficult for me to ever use the word - certainly
all religious martyrs I would not be able to agree with, as I
absolutely do not believe their convictions are "right".
> It's not about ill-education, as you rather patronisingly
>suggested, and if you think they were martyrs I think you're wrong.
So they didn't die because of their beliefs - well that's entirely
possible, we don't really know much about their motivations, but it
doesn't seem an unreasonable supposition to me, and if you're going to
equate it to islamic beliefs as you did, then I can't see you're
claiming any other motive.
Jim.
Jul 21st 2006 | 11:08 pm
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Now that is funny
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:46:40 +0100, [email protected]
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate) wrote:
>Jim Ley <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:27:25 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:19:16 GMT, [email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
>> >>(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
>> >>deansgate) wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
>> >>>think that the London bombers were martyrs.
>> >>
>> >>I don't understand why it isn't more - I think they were martyrs too,
>> >
>> >To be a martyr one needs to have been put to death for ones faith,
>>
>> No you don't, there are lots of usages of martyr that do not involve
>> being "put to death" - including lots of people who martyr themselves
>> in warfare etc.
>That's it- there are lots of usages of the word, and frankly, one's
>opinion on the 'right' or 'wrong' of the bombers' actions is what
>informs the choice of the use of the term martyr to describe the London
>bombers. It's not about ill-education, as you rather patronisingly
>suggested, and if you think they were martyrs I think you're wrong.
I looked it up in three dictionaries. None mentioned committing
suicide in order to kill the innocent. In fact all mentioned being put
to death for ones faith and the meaning as in "being a martyr to ones
corns".
--
Martin
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate) wrote:
>Jim Ley <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:27:25 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:19:16 GMT, [email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:26:11 +0100, [email protected]
>> >>(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
>> >>deansgate) wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>I'm not shedding any tears for him, but around one in seven UK muslims
>> >>>think that the London bombers were martyrs.
>> >>
>> >>I don't understand why it isn't more - I think they were martyrs too,
>> >
>> >To be a martyr one needs to have been put to death for ones faith,
>>
>> No you don't, there are lots of usages of martyr that do not involve
>> being "put to death" - including lots of people who martyr themselves
>> in warfare etc.
>That's it- there are lots of usages of the word, and frankly, one's
>opinion on the 'right' or 'wrong' of the bombers' actions is what
>informs the choice of the use of the term martyr to describe the London
>bombers. It's not about ill-education, as you rather patronisingly
>suggested, and if you think they were martyrs I think you're wrong.
I looked it up in three dictionaries. None mentioned committing
suicide in order to kill the innocent. In fact all mentioned being put
to death for ones faith and the meaning as in "being a martyr to ones
corns".
--
Martin
