My first trip to Europe - NOT
Jun 9th 2003, 11:00 am
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
That's a 4 hour drive to avoid a 4 hour layover?
"Joe" wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I was planning to ride my bike around France for a few
> weeks, and I had made no other reservations. The thought
> of a 9 hour layover in Toronto followed by a long overseas
> flight did not appeal to me. Many folks in the Albany area
> drive to Boston or Newark to catch a flight - I am beginning
> to understand why.
>
> Joe
>
>> An interesting choice. Some of us, having planned on a long overseas
> trip,
>> would not have canceled for that reason, and would've taken the next
>> day's flight. But to each his own.
>> What about all your other reservations in Europe? Did you make any
>> hotel reservations? And did you cancel them?
>
>
>
"Joe" wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I was planning to ride my bike around France for a few
> weeks, and I had made no other reservations. The thought
> of a 9 hour layover in Toronto followed by a long overseas
> flight did not appeal to me. Many folks in the Albany area
> drive to Boston or Newark to catch a flight - I am beginning
> to understand why.
>
> Joe
>
>> An interesting choice. Some of us, having planned on a long overseas
> trip,
>> would not have canceled for that reason, and would've taken the next
>> day's flight. But to each his own.
>> What about all your other reservations in Europe? Did you make any
>> hotel reservations? And did you cancel them?
>
>
>
Jun 9th 2003, 11:06 am
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
Joe writes:
> I find it hard to believe that this is a legal
> business practice.
Since you must reconfirm your flight shortly before it is scheduled to
leave, how did you miss the cancellation and rescheduling?
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> I find it hard to believe that this is a legal
> business practice.
Since you must reconfirm your flight shortly before it is scheduled to
leave, how did you miss the cancellation and rescheduling?
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 9th 2003, 12:50 pm
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003, "Joe" wrote:
> The company is Air Canada. I am feeling better about this now. When I
> called cheapseats they refused to offer a refund. But when I called Air
> Canada they told me that since they had made a schedule change, the
> tickets are now refundable. They gave me the name and number of the
> travel agency that I need to call to request the refund. I had never
> heard of this company before in this dealing.
Hm, Air Canada is the biggest airline in Canada. ;-)
Be aware that Air Canada is now in the equivalent of "chapter 11" in the
US. Therefore, their legal obligations are limited or none, and they may
stop existing altogether. Whatever they offer you, I suggest you use it
quickly.
--
Yves Bellefeuille , Ottawa, Canada
Francais / English / Esperanto
Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html
Rec.travel.europe FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq
> The company is Air Canada. I am feeling better about this now. When I
> called cheapseats they refused to offer a refund. But when I called Air
> Canada they told me that since they had made a schedule change, the
> tickets are now refundable. They gave me the name and number of the
> travel agency that I need to call to request the refund. I had never
> heard of this company before in this dealing.
Hm, Air Canada is the biggest airline in Canada. ;-)
Be aware that Air Canada is now in the equivalent of "chapter 11" in the
US. Therefore, their legal obligations are limited or none, and they may
stop existing altogether. Whatever they offer you, I suggest you use it
quickly.
--
Yves Bellefeuille , Ottawa, Canada
Francais / English / Esperanto
Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html
Rec.travel.europe FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq
Jun 9th 2003, 2:31 pm
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
I meant I never heard of the travel agency,
Mill Run Tours.
"Yves Bellefeuille" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2003, "Joe" wrote:
> > The company is Air Canada. I am feeling better about this now. When I
> > called cheapseats they refused to offer a refund. But when I called Air
> > Canada they told me that since they had made a schedule change, the
> > tickets are now refundable. They gave me the name and number of the
> > travel agency that I need to call to request the refund. I had never
> > heard of this company before in this dealing.
> Hm, Air Canada is the biggest airline in Canada. ;-)
> Be aware that Air Canada is now in the equivalent of "chapter 11" in the
> US. Therefore, their legal obligations are limited or none, and they may
> stop existing altogether. Whatever they offer you, I suggest you use it
> quickly.
> --
> Yves Bellefeuille , Ottawa, Canada
> Francais / English / Esperanto
> Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html
> Rec.travel.europe FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq
Mill Run Tours.
"Yves Bellefeuille" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2003, "Joe" wrote:
> > The company is Air Canada. I am feeling better about this now. When I
> > called cheapseats they refused to offer a refund. But when I called Air
> > Canada they told me that since they had made a schedule change, the
> > tickets are now refundable. They gave me the name and number of the
> > travel agency that I need to call to request the refund. I had never
> > heard of this company before in this dealing.
> Hm, Air Canada is the biggest airline in Canada. ;-)
> Be aware that Air Canada is now in the equivalent of "chapter 11" in the
> US. Therefore, their legal obligations are limited or none, and they may
> stop existing altogether. Whatever they offer you, I suggest you use it
> quickly.
> --
> Yves Bellefeuille , Ottawa, Canada
> Francais / English / Esperanto
> Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html
> Rec.travel.europe FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq
Jun 9th 2003, 2:32 pm
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
I would say that people drive to Boston or Newark
for price savings and flight availability rather than
layover time.
Joe
"Emilia" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That's a 4 hour drive to avoid a 4 hour layover?
> "Joe" wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> > I was planning to ride my bike around France for a few
> > weeks, and I had made no other reservations. The thought
> > of a 9 hour layover in Toronto followed by a long overseas
> > flight did not appeal to me. Many folks in the Albany area
> > drive to Boston or Newark to catch a flight - I am beginning
> > to understand why.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >> An interesting choice. Some of us, having planned on a long overseas
> > trip,
> >> would not have canceled for that reason, and would've taken the next
> >> day's flight. But to each his own.
> >>
> >> What about all your other reservations in Europe? Did you make any
> >> hotel reservations? And did you cancel them?
> >>
> >
> >
> >
for price savings and flight availability rather than
layover time.
Joe
"Emilia" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That's a 4 hour drive to avoid a 4 hour layover?
> "Joe" wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> > I was planning to ride my bike around France for a few
> > weeks, and I had made no other reservations. The thought
> > of a 9 hour layover in Toronto followed by a long overseas
> > flight did not appeal to me. Many folks in the Albany area
> > drive to Boston or Newark to catch a flight - I am beginning
> > to understand why.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >> An interesting choice. Some of us, having planned on a long overseas
> > trip,
> >> would not have canceled for that reason, and would've taken the next
> >> day's flight. But to each his own.
> >>
> >> What about all your other reservations in Europe? Did you make any
> >> hotel reservations? And did you cancel them?
> >>
> >
> >
> >
Jun 9th 2003, 3:18 pm
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
Joe wrote:
>
> I bought a round trip ticket from Albany, NY to Paris
> via Toronto from cheapseats.com. When I went to the
> airport I was told that my flight had been cancelled weeks
> ago, and that I had been rebooked on an earlier flight,
> which I missed. I went home and cancelled my trip plans.
> I then called cheapseats to request a refund. They told
> me that my ticket was non-refundable. They also told me
> that the airline could change my flight and did not have to
> inform me of the change - it was up to me to keep
> checking with the airline for changes.
That doesn't sound right! I've gotten e-mail notifications from an
airline when there were such minor changes as a departure time ten
minutes later than originally scheduled, or a change in the flight
number for my return flight (only that - the time schedule remained the
same). Certainly, when my return flight from Paris to LAX was re-routed
(due to American permanently cancelling that particular flight, after
I'd bought my ticket, but before my trip), I received e-mails both from
the Amex-affiliated travel agent who issued the ticket, and from the
airline. I was under the impression that was why they always ask for a
telephone number where you can be reached, "in case of changes"! It
would appear that, sometimes, "you get what you pay for" when you use
"discount" sites, although your experience sounds a bit bizarre for ANY
reputable travel business - do they think you or anyone you tell about
your experience is likely to book through them, under those conditions?
>
> I bought a round trip ticket from Albany, NY to Paris
> via Toronto from cheapseats.com. When I went to the
> airport I was told that my flight had been cancelled weeks
> ago, and that I had been rebooked on an earlier flight,
> which I missed. I went home and cancelled my trip plans.
> I then called cheapseats to request a refund. They told
> me that my ticket was non-refundable. They also told me
> that the airline could change my flight and did not have to
> inform me of the change - it was up to me to keep
> checking with the airline for changes.
That doesn't sound right! I've gotten e-mail notifications from an
airline when there were such minor changes as a departure time ten
minutes later than originally scheduled, or a change in the flight
number for my return flight (only that - the time schedule remained the
same). Certainly, when my return flight from Paris to LAX was re-routed
(due to American permanently cancelling that particular flight, after
I'd bought my ticket, but before my trip), I received e-mails both from
the Amex-affiliated travel agent who issued the ticket, and from the
airline. I was under the impression that was why they always ask for a
telephone number where you can be reached, "in case of changes"! It
would appear that, sometimes, "you get what you pay for" when you use
"discount" sites, although your experience sounds a bit bizarre for ANY
reputable travel business - do they think you or anyone you tell about
your experience is likely to book through them, under those conditions?
Jun 9th 2003, 4:06 pm
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
Carefully review the the literature that accompanied your ticket and see if
it says anything about their right to change it without notifying you.
Demand documentation of when the fliaht was changed and by whom. I
reccomend that you carefully document this information and send a letter to
Cheapseats and copy your States attourney General and the FAA. Then letters
to your each of your senators and your congressman, copy cheapseats. I
don't think there is a court in the country that would consider that a
reasonable contract.
--
"These are the times that try men's souls." Tom Paine
Marc B.
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it says anything about their right to change it without notifying you.
Demand documentation of when the fliaht was changed and by whom. I
reccomend that you carefully document this information and send a letter to
Cheapseats and copy your States attourney General and the FAA. Then letters
to your each of your senators and your congressman, copy cheapseats. I
don't think there is a court in the country that would consider that a
reasonable contract.
--
"These are the times that try men's souls." Tom Paine
Marc B.
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Jun 9th 2003, 8:12 pm
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Since you must reconfirm your flight shortly before it is scheduled to
> leave,
Says who?
news:[email protected]...
> Since you must reconfirm your flight shortly before it is scheduled to
> leave,
Says who?
Jun 9th 2003, 8:44 pm
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
Oh well, yes. I can imagine it would be cheaper.
"Joe" wrote in news:4rbFa.35145$5s3.31911
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
> I would say that people drive to Boston or Newark
> for price savings and flight availability rather than
> layover time.
>
> Joe
>
> "Emilia" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> That's a 4 hour drive to avoid a 4 hour layover?
>> "Joe" wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>> > I was planning to ride my bike around France for a few
>> > weeks, and I had made no other reservations. The thought
>> > of a 9 hour layover in Toronto followed by a long overseas
>> > flight did not appeal to me. Many folks in the Albany area
>> > drive to Boston or Newark to catch a flight - I am beginning
>> > to understand why.
>> >
>> > Joe
>> >
>> >> An interesting choice. Some of us, having planned on a long
overseas
>> > trip,
>> >> would not have canceled for that reason, and would've taken the
next
>> >> day's flight. But to each his own.
>> >>
>> >> What about all your other reservations in Europe? Did you make any
>> >> hotel reservations? And did you cancel them?
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
"Joe" wrote in news:4rbFa.35145$5s3.31911
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
> I would say that people drive to Boston or Newark
> for price savings and flight availability rather than
> layover time.
>
> Joe
>
> "Emilia" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> That's a 4 hour drive to avoid a 4 hour layover?
>> "Joe" wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>> > I was planning to ride my bike around France for a few
>> > weeks, and I had made no other reservations. The thought
>> > of a 9 hour layover in Toronto followed by a long overseas
>> > flight did not appeal to me. Many folks in the Albany area
>> > drive to Boston or Newark to catch a flight - I am beginning
>> > to understand why.
>> >
>> > Joe
>> >
>> >> An interesting choice. Some of us, having planned on a long
overseas
>> > trip,
>> >> would not have canceled for that reason, and would've taken the
next
>> >> day's flight. But to each his own.
>> >>
>> >> What about all your other reservations in Europe? Did you make any
>> >> hotel reservations? And did you cancel them?
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
Jun 9th 2003, 11:36 pm
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 20:50:46 -0400, [email protected] (Yves Bellefeuille) wrote:
>On Mon, 09 Jun 2003, "Joe" wrote:
>> The company is Air Canada. I am feeling better about this now. When I
>> called cheapseats they refused to offer a refund. But when I called Air
>> Canada they told me that since they had made a schedule change, the
>> tickets are now refundable. They gave me the name and number of the
>> travel agency that I need to call to request the refund. I had never
>> heard of this company before in this dealing.
>Hm, Air Canada is the biggest airline in Canada. ;-)
>Be aware that Air Canada is now in the equivalent of "chapter 11" in the
>US. Therefore, their legal obligations are limited or none,
When a company files for bankruptcy protection, previous contracts can be
nullified (and in fact, many are automatically nullified). However: any
contracts the company enters into AFTER the filing are perfectly valid, and its
legal obligations are basically the same as a non-bankrupt company. In fact,
its legal obligations are actually greater than a pre-bankruptcy company,
because it cannot file for bankruptcy a second time until it has been discharged
from the first filing.
I don't know about Canadian law, but I imagine it cannot be different from the
US in this respect. If a company could not make enforceable contracts, it would
be dead as a doornail. Who would buy tickets on an airline, it the airline
could simply keep the money and refuse to honor the ticket?
If a company which has filed for bankruptcy enters into a post-banktruptcy
contract and then ceases to operate, the contracts made after the filing have
precedence over all other obligations -- they get their money first.
--
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
- Abraham Lincoln
>On Mon, 09 Jun 2003, "Joe" wrote:
>> The company is Air Canada. I am feeling better about this now. When I
>> called cheapseats they refused to offer a refund. But when I called Air
>> Canada they told me that since they had made a schedule change, the
>> tickets are now refundable. They gave me the name and number of the
>> travel agency that I need to call to request the refund. I had never
>> heard of this company before in this dealing.
>Hm, Air Canada is the biggest airline in Canada. ;-)
>Be aware that Air Canada is now in the equivalent of "chapter 11" in the
>US. Therefore, their legal obligations are limited or none,
When a company files for bankruptcy protection, previous contracts can be
nullified (and in fact, many are automatically nullified). However: any
contracts the company enters into AFTER the filing are perfectly valid, and its
legal obligations are basically the same as a non-bankrupt company. In fact,
its legal obligations are actually greater than a pre-bankruptcy company,
because it cannot file for bankruptcy a second time until it has been discharged
from the first filing.
I don't know about Canadian law, but I imagine it cannot be different from the
US in this respect. If a company could not make enforceable contracts, it would
be dead as a doornail. Who would buy tickets on an airline, it the airline
could simply keep the money and refuse to honor the ticket?
If a company which has filed for bankruptcy enters into a post-banktruptcy
contract and then ceases to operate, the contracts made after the filing have
precedence over all other obligations -- they get their money first.
--
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
- Abraham Lincoln
Jun 10th 2003, 12:09 am
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
Mark Hewitt writes:
> Says who?
Says the ticket, last time I flew (admittedly long ago).
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Says who?
Says the ticket, last time I flew (admittedly long ago).
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 10th 2003, 12:10 am
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Mason Barge wrote:
> If a company which has filed for bankruptcy enters into a post-banktruptcy
> contract and then ceases to operate, the contracts made after the filing have
> precedence over all other obligations -- they get their money first.
Legal advice on the net is abundant, free, and worth every cent. ;-) If
the original poster is concerned, he should get real advice.
--
Yves Bellefeuille , Ottawa, Canada
Francais / English / Esperanto
Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html
Rec.travel.europe FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq
> If a company which has filed for bankruptcy enters into a post-banktruptcy
> contract and then ceases to operate, the contracts made after the filing have
> precedence over all other obligations -- they get their money first.
Legal advice on the net is abundant, free, and worth every cent. ;-) If
the original poster is concerned, he should get real advice.
--
Yves Bellefeuille , Ottawa, Canada
Francais / English / Esperanto
Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html
Rec.travel.europe FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq
Jun 10th 2003, 12:11 am
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
"Joe" wrote
| I bought a round trip ticket from Albany, NY to Paris
| via Toronto from cheapseats.com. When I went to the
| airport I was told that my flight had been cancelled weeks
| ago, and that I had been rebooked on an earlier flight,
| which I missed. I went home and cancelled my trip plans.
That's really bad luck.
See your solicitor.
Owain
| I bought a round trip ticket from Albany, NY to Paris
| via Toronto from cheapseats.com. When I went to the
| airport I was told that my flight had been cancelled weeks
| ago, and that I had been rebooked on an earlier flight,
| which I missed. I went home and cancelled my trip plans.
That's really bad luck.
See your solicitor.
Owain
Jun 10th 2003, 1:45 am
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
Mxsmanic wrote:
> Mark Hewitt writes:
>> Says who?
> Says the ticket, last time I flew (admittedly long ago).
Last time I reconfirmed a ticket was 1994. Many airlines now explicitly tell
passengers there's no need to do it; the others seem to just quietly survive
without it.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
> Mark Hewitt writes:
>> Says who?
> Says the ticket, last time I flew (admittedly long ago).
Last time I reconfirmed a ticket was 1994. Many airlines now explicitly tell
passengers there's no need to do it; the others seem to just quietly survive
without it.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
Jun 10th 2003, 5:22 am
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: My first trip to Europe - NOT
"Miguel Cruz" skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
> Mxsmanic wrote:
> > Mark Hewitt writes:
> >> Says who?
> >
> > Says the ticket, last time I flew (admittedly long ago).
> Last time I reconfirmed a ticket was 1994. Many airlines now explicitly
tell
> passengers there's no need to do it; the others seem to just quietly
survive
> without it.
> miguel
And furthermore AFAIK the reconfirmation was for the return portion or
onward transport not for the original out transport.
But something similar to reconfirmation do exist for charter trips here in
Europe where you typically have to inform the tour operator where you are 24
hours ahead of the return trip, and that's to receive eventually changes.
But that's very clear indicated in the rules received when booking.
news:[email protected]...
> Mxsmanic wrote:
> > Mark Hewitt writes:
> >> Says who?
> >
> > Says the ticket, last time I flew (admittedly long ago).
> Last time I reconfirmed a ticket was 1994. Many airlines now explicitly
tell
> passengers there's no need to do it; the others seem to just quietly
survive
> without it.
> miguel
And furthermore AFAIK the reconfirmation was for the return portion or
onward transport not for the original out transport.
But something similar to reconfirmation do exist for charter trips here in
Europe where you typically have to inform the tour operator where you are 24
hours ahead of the return trip, and that's to receive eventually changes.
But that's very clear indicated in the rules received when booking.
