hey all...I'm very interested in staying in Morocco for about 5 days...i'm talking
now via email with a guide named Mohamed Id Hammou...his wife tells me that i should
take a train to Marrakech and then drive 7 hours to his village, where there the tour
would begin...but my fear is, me being 19 and alone, i could possible just be digging
my own grave...maybe kidnap or something..haha...but i rather be safe you know???so
im asking you all, would yall do it???is it worth it???thanks for your time

John

On 6 Jun 2002, [email protected] (John) wrote:

    > hey all...I'm very interested in staying in Morocco for about 5 days...

Morocco is outside the mandate of rec.travel.europe. Try asking in
rec.travel.africa instead.

--
Yves Bellefeuille <[email protected]>, Ottawa, Canada Francais / English / Esperanto
Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html Rec.travel.europe FAQ:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq

Moroccan tour guides are trained by the government. Two years to qulify in their
local area, more to qualify in leading tours around the country. You might ask for
his license number and check it with the embassy, or local consulate, or with the
Moroccan tourist office in New York. Directory assistance can get you the number. Be
prepared to visit the shops which give the guide a percentage, and to pay a
"gratuity" to police or other officials whom the guide promises to help you with. The
country is very poor, and Sep 11 has reduced the amount of tourist spending greatly.
"John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > hey all...I'm very interested in staying in Morocco for about 5 days...i'm talking
    > now via email with a guide named Mohamed Id Hammou...his wife tells me that i
    > should take a train to Marrakech and then drive 7 hours to his village, where there
    > the tour would begin...but my fear is, me being 19 and alone, i could possible just
    > be digging my own grave...maybe kidnap or something..haha...but i rather be safe
    > you know???so im asking you all, would yall do it???is it worth it???thanks for
    > your time
    >
    > John

John <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > hey all...I'm very interested in staying in Morocco for about 5 days...i'm talking
    > now via email with a guide named Mohamed Id Hammou...his wife tells me that i
    > should take a train to Marrakech and then drive 7 hours to his village, where there
    > the tour would begin...but my fear is, me being 19 and alone, i could possible just
    > be digging my own grave...maybe kidnap or something..haha...but i rather be safe
    > you know???so im asking you all, would yall do it???is it worth it???thanks for
    > your time

It would be distinctly more sensible to travel in pairs, especially if you're going
out into the wilds. Not only for security reasons (a very low level problem in
Morocco), but just for sheer commonsense re possible accidents, etc. If you're alone
you'll probably easily find someone in Marra who'd team up with you for 5 days (and
share car/guide costs).

Where is this chap? 7 hours drive from Marrakesh? Is he down by Ouzazarte (apologies
for spelling!) on the Sahara somewhere! Or right in the Atlas? Are you sure his base
is a good place to spend 5 days? Maybe there's an easier way to get there rather than
a day's drive from Marra? A 7-hour driving radius from Marra covers several airports,
for instance.

But mainly and definitely check out his credentials. If he is not a registered
Government guide avoid him!

Surreyman

Yves Bellefeuille <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Morocco is outside the mandate of rec.travel.europe. Try asking in
    > rec.travel.africa instead.
    >
Use both ng's! It has previously been recognised that many Morocco visits
originate/continue from Spanish trips, so no great problem.

Surreyman

In article <[email protected]> , John
<[email protected]> said...

    > days...i'm talking now via email with a guide named Mohamed Id Hammou...his wife
    > tells me that i should take a train to Marrakech and then drive 7 hours to his
    > village, where there the tour would

Virtually everyone I met in Morocco in the 6 days I was there claimed to be a
"guide". They are all at it thinking that everyone outside Morocco is gullible and
prepared to take their word. If you take the ferry from Algeciras to Tangiers you
will be greeted by no end of "guides" or "friends" who will show you around upon your
arrival. They are all in it for the money and I found it to be an irritation in
Morocco whilst I was travelling alone last year.

Frankly this arrangement you've found sounds a little too suspicious to
me. How did you find out about him? To be honest with you you would be better off
either seeing the country yourself with the aid of a guide book (Lonely Planet,
Rough Guide) or booking yourself on an package holiday/escorted tour which takes
care of accommodation, coach transfers and sightseeing.

--
Phil Richards

In article <[email protected]>,
a.spencer3 <[email protected]> said...

    > Use both ng's! It has previously been recognised that many Morocco visits
    > originate/continue from Spanish trips, so no great problem.

Seconded! As you say Morocco is often included part of European trips - for example
it's included in the Inter Rail pass scheme.

Mr Bellefeuille seems to claim himself as some sort of a "policeman" to this (un
moderated) newsgroup.

--
Phil Richards

Hi John!

In every sizeable city in Morocco, you'll meet so-called guides. Each one claims to
be a so-called "official" guide. There is no difference between "official" guides and
un-official guides, and none of them will claim to be an un-official guide.

You don't need a guide to see Moroccan cities. However, getting rid of them is quite
difficult. They are experts at pestering you. I recommend the word "No!" (with the
exclamation point) repeated endlessly. If you manage to get away from one, another
will soon come buzzing around. Once you get away from the main entrances to the old
city, however, the guides thin out. Persevere, and you'll be able to escape them.

There is no danger wandering without a guide. There are no kidnapings. You're
probably safer in a Moroccan city, with or without a guide, than you would be in
Europe, and definitely more secure than in the USA. The cops in Morocco keep a close
watch for pick-pockets.

There is absolutely no requirement for you to have a guide (regardless of what the
guides will tell you).

I prefer to wander with no guide. That being said, there can be some advantages, if
you use guides intelligently. First, taking on a guide will fend off all the other
guides, so at least you'll be through with the pestering. Second, your guide will
know the nooks and crannies you'd not likely enter on your own, and he'll lead you in
for a look at interesting little businesses, like the tannery and a little shop or
two, that you might not think to enter alone. And third, if you're the sort who
worries all the time about pick-pockets, taboos etc., your guide will help you to
remember to stay out of mosques (unbelievers are not welcome in Moroccan mosques) and
cemeteries. Guides would recognize malefactors and know where to turn for help.

If you do keep a guide, always remember this: all guides, "official" and otherwise,
are on commission with the carpet merchants and similar businesses that sell to
tourists. Seeing the carpet factory once is interesting, but once you've seen the
show, you've seen it a thousand times. Unless you've set your mind to buy a carpet,
firmly refuse to go back for future visits, unless you positively want to see the
performance again. It is time consuming, and ultimately the purpose is just to sell
you a carpet. Walk right out and the guide, after persistent protests, will
eventually follow.

You will be tempted, so it's a good idea before going to Morocco to look at carpet
prices and get some basic knowledge of the subject, if you think there is any
possible way you might ever buy a carpet. (Most people might.)

Ordinary people in Morocco are incredibly friendly and outgoing, far more than
Europeans and unbelievably so when compared with ordinary Americans. (Would you
expect a New York cabbie to invite you home to meet his family? Would you accept!)
Expect to be invited home for tea by your guide. You can decide whether you have
time. My experience is that there is no danger in this, and that the invitation is
sincerely meant in friendship, not as a scam or criminal activity.

If you accept the little invitation, you may be offered a little gift by the host
(not anything illicit, and the invitation to tea was not originally offered as a
pitch to exchange gifts). It's not a bad idea if you carry a little something to give
in return so that you do not feel too embarrassed.

I think it pointless to arrange a guide in advance. Possibly, you'll be picked up by
one of the "official" guides who hangs around your hotel, but I would not bother with
an more pre-arranging than that.

Happy travels, and let me know if I can help further!

David

David <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Hi John!
    >
    > In every sizeable city in Morocco, you'll meet so-called guides. Each one claims to
    > be a so-called "official" guide. There is no difference between "official" guides
    > and un-official guides, and none of them will claim to be an un-official guide.
    >
    > You don't need a guide to see Moroccan cities. However, getting rid of them is
    > quite difficult. They are experts at pestering you. I recommend the word "No!"
    > (with the exclamation point) repeated endlessly. If you manage to get away from
    > one, another will soon come buzzing around. Once you get away from the main
    > entrances to the old city, however, the guides thin out. Persevere, and you'll be
    > able to escape them.
    >
    > There is no danger wandering without a guide. There are no kidnapings. You're
    > probably safer in a Moroccan city, with or without a guide, than you would be in
    > Europe, and definitely more secure than in the USA. The cops in Morocco keep a
    > close watch for pick-pockets.
    >
    > There is absolutely no requirement for you to have a guide (regardless of what the
    > guides will tell you).
    >
    > I prefer to wander with no guide. That being said, there can be some advantages, if
    > you use guides intelligently. First, taking on a guide will fend off all the other
    > guides, so at least you'll be through with the pestering. Second, your guide will
    > know the nooks and crannies you'd not likely enter on your own, and he'll lead you
    > in for a look at interesting little businesses, like the tannery and a little shop
    > or two, that you might not think to enter alone. And third, if you're the sort who
    > worries all the time about pick-pockets, taboos etc., your guide will help you to
    > remember to stay out of mosques (unbelievers are not welcome in Moroccan mosques)
    > and cemeteries. Guides would recognize malefactors and know where to turn for help.
    >
    > If you do keep a guide, always remember this: all guides, "official" and otherwise,
    > are on commission with the carpet merchants and similar businesses that sell to
    > tourists. Seeing the carpet factory once is interesting, but once you've seen the
    > show, you've seen it a thousand times. Unless you've set your mind to buy a carpet,
    > firmly refuse to go back for future visits, unless you positively want to see the
    > performance again. It is time consuming, and ultimately the purpose is just to sell
    > you a carpet. Walk right out and the guide, after persistent protests, will
    > eventually follow.
    >
    > You will be tempted, so it's a good idea before going to Morocco to look at carpet
    > prices and get some basic knowledge of the subject, if you think there is any
    > possible way you might ever buy a carpet. (Most people might.)
    >
    > Ordinary people in Morocco are incredibly friendly and outgoing, far more than
    > Europeans and unbelievably so when compared with ordinary Americans. (Would you
    > expect a New York cabbie to invite you home to meet his family? Would you accept!)
    > Expect to be invited home for tea by your guide. You can decide whether you have
    > time. My experience is that there is no danger in this, and that the invitation is
    > sincerely meant in friendship, not as a scam or criminal activity.
    >
    > If you accept the little invitation, you may be offered a little gift by the host
    > (not anything illicit, and the invitation to tea was not originally offered as a
    > pitch to exchange gifts). It's not a bad idea if you carry a little something to
    > give in return so that you do not feel too embarrassed.
    >
    > I think it pointless to arrange a guide in advance. Possibly, you'll be picked up
    > by one of the "official" guides who hangs around your hotel, but I would not bother
    > with an more pre-arranging than that.
    >
    > Happy travels, and let me know if I can help further!

I was about to scream in protest at your first para, but then ended up agreeing with
everything else you said! I would just say that the official guides are that - i.e.
they have some training, knowledge, etc. They also have official badges to show. But
pick the right lad, and unofficial guides can be just as useful! And, to deter, we
always find chatting pleasantly about their home villages etc. before saying
'Goodbye' works! The shouted 'No!' comes from most tourists and has little effect.
We've found guides useful when hitting a new town, for instance, just to get a sense
of layout. Certainly, thereafter, they're not needed.

Surreyman

thanks Mr Hurwitz, and to the other dude, sorry, i forgot all about the travel europe
thing...but still you can get to Morocco and travel through it by buying european
train tickets...like i'm doing...forgive me

John

"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:EI%[email protected]... ....
    > And, to deter, we always find chatting pleasantly about their home
villages
    > etc. before saying 'Goodbye' works!

I have stood on the hill overlooking Queen Hatshepsut's temple, chatting to a
guide, who was quite sure I couldn't carry a bicycle over the path to the Valley of
the Kings. He left with a pleasant farewell when a rather better prospect for
needing help on the difficult bits of the path, in the form of a rather overweight
middle-aged American couple, puffed up the path. He took the precaution of asking
me whether their accent was American or English before going down to greet them and
tell them how pleased he was to welcome American visitors to his country. However,
it would take all day to chat with every guide who appears at the entrance to a
busy Souk.

    > The shouted 'No!' comes from most tourists and has little effect.

I rather like the advice of a Victorian lady traveller who visted Egypt and wrote
'hire one of the less disreputable looking, but strong, guides, who will beat the
others away with the stick they carry for the purpose'.

    > We've found guides useful when hitting a new town, for instance, just to
get
    > a sense of layout. Certainly, thereafter, they're not needed.

The Souk in Fes is reputed to be unnavigable without a local guide. I haven't tried
it to find out.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    >
However, it would take all day to chat
    > with every guide who appears at the entrance to a busy Souk.

Part of the charm of Morocco - chatting all day in the souk - and does wonders for
schoolboy French!

Surreyman

Nightjar <[email protected]> wrote:
    > The Souk in Fes is reputed to be unnavigable without a local guide. I haven't tried
    > it to find out.

That myth is spread mainly by the guides, to whose advantage its acceptance accrues.

It's a maze, and confusing, but there are no topological tricks or areas in which the
laws of physics do not apply. Finding your way around is eminently satisfying and all
the more fun for the challenge. I couldn't imagine going all the way there and then
hiring a guide - it would be like spending money to go to an amusement park and then
hiring an assistant to ride on the roller coaster for me.

The first few days of my first visit, I wandered around, depending mainly on
serendipity. The two main paths from Baboujeloud were of course obvious but the rest
was a twisty mess in my mind's overhead map. By now - after perhaps three weeks'
aggregate wandering - I'd claim mastery to about 1/4 of the city, including all the
main passages (wider than 2 meters or particularly crowded). This means I still have
many weeks of quality exploration left to look forward to on future visits.

If you ever need to find your way out in a hurry - perhaps it's getting cold or dark
and you want to go back to the hotel - just pick an incline (up or down) and follow
it to the nearest crenellated edge. From there you can get a cab or just follow the
outside of the city walls back to your point of origin. Or hand a few dirham to any
child you see and they'll gladly lead you where you want to go.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

"Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Nightjar <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > The Souk in Fes is reputed to be unnavigable without a local guide. I haven't
    > > tried it to find out.
    >
    > That myth is spread mainly by the guides, to whose advantage its
acceptance
    > accrues.

As I find it very difficult to get lost, I had wondered about that. At the very
worst, I have always found it possible to retrace my steps to where I started.

....
    > If you ever need to find your way out in a hurry - perhaps it's getting
cold
    > or dark and you want to go back to the hotel - just pick an incline (up or down)
    > and follow it to the nearest crenellated edge.

A useful tip that I shall remember. Fes is not a currently planned trip but it is
quite high up on the 'must do soon' list.

Colin Bignell

"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Nightjar <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > However, it would take all day to chat
    > > with every guide who appears at the entrance to a busy Souk.
    >
    > Part of the charm of Morocco - chatting all day in the souk - and does wonders for
    > schoolboy French!

Better, IMO, to be chatting to the shopkeepers, while a confirmed shopper takes her
time going through the entire stock, than to a gaggle of would be guides. At least
the shopkeepers might offer mint tea.

Colin