We'll need 5-day passes after arriving in Gare du Nord. Is it as simple
as just buying them at that station, or should we get them in advance?

[email protected] wrote:
    > We'll need 5-day passes after arriving in Gare du Nord. Is it as
    > simple as just buying them at that station, or should we get them
    > in advance?

If you mean the 5-day Paris Visite pass, they can be bought at any
Metro, RER, or SNCF station or at CDG or Orly airport, as well as many
tourist information offices and hotels. The pass valid for Zones 1 to 3
costs 26.65 euros. For the odd trip outside Paris, such as Versailles,
you might as well pay for it separately rather than buy the much more
expensive Zones 1-5 pass.

How many individual journeys are you likely to do during your 5 days in
Paris? If it's less than 25 in total, it would be cheaper to buy
carnets of 10 single tickets (10.70 euros per carnet). Alternatively,
if your 5 days starts on a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday, you could buy a
weekly season ticket for Zones 1-2 (Carte Orange Hebdo) for 15.70 euros.
All these tickets can be bought at any Metro station, but you'll need to
have a spare passport photo for the Carte Orange.

If you are arriving at Gare du Nord by Eurostar from London, you should
be able to buy most of these tickets in the departure lounge at London
Waterloo.
--
Richard J.
www.stayparis.net

[email protected] writes:

    > We'll need 5-day passes after arriving in Gare du Nord. Is it as simple
    > as just buying them at that station, or should we get them in advance?

You can buy them at the station.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Richard J. wrote:

    > [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >> We'll need 5-day passes after arriving in Gare du Nord. Is it as
    >> simple as just buying them at that station, or should we get them
    >> in advance?
    >
    >
    > If you mean the 5-day Paris Visite pass, they can be bought at any
    > Metro, RER, or SNCF station or at CDG or Orly airport, as well as many
    > tourist information offices and hotels. The pass valid for Zones 1 to 3
    > costs 26.65 euros. For the odd trip outside Paris, such as Versailles,
    > you might as well pay for it separately rather than buy the much more
    > expensive Zones 1-5 pass.
    >
    > How many individual journeys are you likely to do during your 5 days in
    > Paris? If it's less than 25 in total, it would be cheaper to buy
    > carnets of 10 single tickets (10.70 euros per carnet). Alternatively,
    > if your 5 days starts on a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday, you could buy a
    > weekly season ticket for Zones 1-2 (Carte Orange Hebdo) for 15.70 euros.
    > All these tickets can be bought at any Metro station, but you'll need to
    > have a spare passport photo for the Carte Orange.
    >

A passport photo will be way too large. Postage stamp size will be a
better estimate. And something from a color printer will do fine. I
think that they would have to find a ticket office to get their holder.
The machines only dispense the tickets as I remember.

    > If you are arriving at Gare du Nord by Eurostar from London, you should
    > be able to buy most of these tickets in the departure lounge at London
    > Waterloo.

Frank F. Matthews wrote:
    > Richard J. wrote:

    >> Alternatively, if your 5 days starts on a Monday, Tuesday or
    >> Wednesday, you could buy a weekly season ticket for Zones 1-2
    >> (Carte Orange Hebdo) for 15.70 euros. All these tickets can be
    >> bought at any Metro station, but you'll need to have a spare
    >> passport photo for the Carte Orange.

    > A passport photo will be way too large. Postage stamp size will be
    > a better estimate.

I used a passport photo, cropped to about 30 x 25 mm (1.25 x 1 inch).

I'm talking about the separate Carte Orange photocards, not the new
Navigo smart cards which do have a small postage-stamp sized photo,
reduced from the cropped passport photo you supply. Navigos are
currently available only to residents on a 3-week lead time, so are not
relevant to this thread.
--
Richard J.
www.stayparis.net

Richard J. wrote:

    > Frank F. Matthews wrote:
    >
    >> Richard J. wrote:
    >
    >
    >>> Alternatively, if your 5 days starts on a Monday, Tuesday or
    >>> Wednesday, you could buy a weekly season ticket for Zones 1-2
    >>> (Carte Orange Hebdo) for 15.70 euros. All these tickets can be
    >>> bought at any Metro station, but you'll need to have a spare
    >>> passport photo for the Carte Orange.
    >
    >
    >> A passport photo will be way too large. Postage stamp size will be
    >> a better estimate.
    >
    >
    > I used a passport photo, cropped to about 30 x 25 mm (1.25 x 1 inch).
    >
    > I'm talking about the separate Carte Orange photocards, not the new
    > Navigo smart cards which do have a small postage-stamp sized photo,
    > reduced from the cropped passport photo you supply. Navigos are
    > currently available only to residents on a 3-week lead time, so are not
    > relevant to this thread.

No I am talking about the Carte Orange ticket holder. Then again my
passport holder cropped to the size you mention might possibly show most
of my head.

I would have expected about 5 mm less in each dimension but I don't have
the holder at hand. Perhaps my memory is bad. I brought a variety of
sizes printed together starting from passport size and had to cut down
the smallest.

Richard J. writes:

    > I'm talking about the separate Carte Orange photocards, not the new
    > Navigo smart cards which do have a small postage-stamp sized photo,
    > reduced from the cropped passport photo you supply. Navigos are
    > currently available only to residents on a 3-week lead time, so are not
    > relevant to this thread.

Navigos are available on the spot at some locations, with digital
photos taken at the time the card is obtained.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Thu, 04 May 2006 19:43:26 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Richard J. writes:
    >> I'm talking about the separate Carte Orange photocards, not the new
    >> Navigo smart cards which do have a small postage-stamp sized photo,
    >> reduced from the cropped passport photo you supply. Navigos are
    >> currently available only to residents on a 3-week lead time, so are not
    >> relevant to this thread.
    >Navigos are available on the spot at some locations, with digital
    >photos taken at the time the card is obtained.

What is this "Navigo"? I can't seem to find any mention of them
at the RATP site.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen wrote:
    > On Thu, 04 May 2006 19:43:26 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >> Richard J. writes:
    >>> I'm talking about the separate Carte Orange photocards, not the
    >>> new Navigo smart cards which do have a small postage-stamp sized
    >>> photo, reduced from the cropped passport photo you supply.
    >>> Navigos are currently available only to residents on a 3-week
    >>> lead time, so are not relevant to this thread.
    >> Navigos are available on the spot at some locations, with digital
    >> photos taken at the time the card is obtained.
    > What is this "Navigo"? I can't seem to find any mention of them
    > at the RATP site.

http://www.ratp.fr/corpo/service/navigo.html

It's a contactless smartcard, similar in technology to London's Oyster,
but restricted so far to season tickets, including the weekly Carte
Orange.
--
Richard J.
www.stayparis.net

Hatunen writes:

    > What is this "Navigo"? I can't seem to find any mention of them
    > at the RATP site.

It's the generic term for a card with a RFID chip that you just wave
at a turnstile to let you through. It is gradually replacing the
multiple-use transit passes. You've been able to get yearly passes
(Carte Intégrale) in this form for years, and now they are being used
for things like Carte Orange and Imagine 'R.

Of course, they require you to give all sorts of personal information
in order to obtain them, so your privacy suffers in exchange for
convenience.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
    > Hatunen writes:
    >> What is this "Navigo"? I can't seem to find any mention of them
    >> at the RATP site.
    > It's the generic term for a card with a RFID chip that you just wave
    > at a turnstile to let you through. It is gradually replacing the
    > multiple-use transit passes. You've been able to get yearly passes
    > (Carte Intégrale) in this form for years, and now they are being
    > used for things like Carte Orange and Imagine 'R.
    > Of course, they require you to give all sorts of personal
    > information in order to obtain them, so your privacy suffers in
    > exchange for convenience.

You mean like a name and address so that they can post the card to you?
Hardly an invasion of privacy. What's the problem?
--
Richard J.
www.stayparis.net

On Fri, 05 May 2006 16:53:36 GMT, "Richard J."
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Mxsmanic wrote:
    >> Hatunen writes:
    >>> What is this "Navigo"? I can't seem to find any mention of them
    >>> at the RATP site.
    >> It's the generic term for a card with a RFID chip that you just wave
    >> at a turnstile to let you through. It is gradually replacing the
    >> multiple-use transit passes. You've been able to get yearly passes
    >> (Carte Intégrale) in this form for years, and now they are being
    >> used for things like Carte Orange and Imagine 'R.
    >> Of course, they require you to give all sorts of personal
    >> information in order to obtain them, so your privacy suffers in
    >> exchange for convenience.
    >You mean like a name and address so that they can post the card to you?
    >Hardly an invasion of privacy. What's the problem?

The CIA/KGB/IRS are after him?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...165958,00.html
Mixi AKA Lord Buckingham?
--

Martin

Richard J.wrote:
    > I use a similar ("Oyster") system in London where exit as well as entry
    > is recorded.
You can get an Oyster card anonymously. I did not have to register
mine when I got my 7-day travelcard from the ticket agent at Heathrow.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > We'll need 5-day passes after arriving in Gare du Nord. Is it as simple
    > as just buying them at that station, or should we get them in advance?

There's no need to buy them in advance.

Richard

From: Giovanni Drogo <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe
Subject: Re: Metro passes in Paris
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 14:20:45 +0200
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    > > > You mean like a name and address so that they can post the card to
    > > > you?
    > >
    > > They give you the card immediately, so they don't need your name and
    > > address for mailing purposes.

    > > > Hardly an invasion of privacy. What's the problem?

When ATM Milano was issuing PAPER season cards, I've never resented as a
privacy violation the fact they require my address etc. In fact since I
pay 300 euro in a bulk for an yearly pass, I feel guaranteed by this,
because they can re-issue the card or coupon in case of loss.

But this information was only stored statically in ATM's records and
subject to the general Privacy Code (an italian law) for what concerns
disclosure to others. We have to sign an explicit agreement which
accepts the usage of the data by ATM for specific purposes (and excludes
e.g. reselling addresses or usage for advertisting).

The situation is different with the new ELECTRONIC passes ATM is
introducing.

    > > From then on, the system knows when and where you've used it,
    > > whereas other transport passes are anonymous.

Passes in Italy have always been "personal" in the sense they carry a
foto and only the holder has right to use it. Impersonal passes (can be
used by anybody ... one at a time of course) are in use in very few
places (I know ATB Bologna has one, it costs also 300 euro but for a
network smaller than Milan's, and more than a personal one).

I believe this is just a matter to earn more money. If the pass were
impersonal, more persons could share it. With the old paper passes, you
had to write your pass number on the coupon. Travelling with a coupon
with no number is like travelling without ticket. But I knew old
persons who used to apply for a pass at the same time, so they got
passes with consecutive number. Then they bought a single coupon, and
scribbled the number in a way it could correspond to either pass. They
could use it one at a time, but saved money. Then they introduced the
senior pass at half price ...

    > Yes, but why is that a *problem*? It knows that I entered the Métro
    > at (say) 19:54 yesterday at Parmentier. But it doesn't know where I
    > exited the system.

This is exactly the matter. With the CURRENT system in Milan they would
be able to know YOU entered ANY day at a given time, and as soon as they
implement check on exit (which they plan to do also for normal tickets),
they will be able to know also when you exit.

Of course this can be useful to collect traffic statistics, but ...

...this is tracking down people, and is clearly a violation of privacy.
It's like knowing where one is when using a cell phone ("location
information" according to the Privacy Code).

Using location information is illegal (except of course by the police
when authorized by a judge) and according to the Privacy Code, to use it
otherwise, it has to be treated in anonymous form.

Now ATM did not require any specific agreement about usage of location
information, nor provide any guarantee that it will be anonymised (it
would be rather easy, compare these cases :

- validating machine at metro station A records that Mr. Rossi has
entered at 0845

- exit turnstile at metro station B records that Mr. Rossi has
exited at 0910

which is a violation of privacy, while this other case is not

- validating machine at metro station A records on Mr. Rossi's card he
entered at A at 0845

- exit turnstile at metro station B reads from the card that somebody
who entered at A at 0845, exited at B 0910, but the information
carries no name attached to it

In fact I refuse to use the new electronic passes "striping" them
throught the reader, and continue to enter via the old access reserved
to pass holders showing the pass to the guard.

I've also sent a formal complaint to the national Privacy Authority
(Autorita' Garante per la Protezione dei Dati Personali), and travel
with a copy of it, as well as a copy of the proof of payment. So far
only a single guard in 5 months has questioned me for using the old
access (which a lot of people are still using), and has accepted my
position afer a short educated discussion.

I also have a receipt from the Privacy Authority which says I was not
the first to make such complaint, and they are arranging a verification
with ATM. Thus the issue has some ground ...

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