Many in U.S. to need passport
Apr 6th 2005, 8:42 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Many in U.S. to need passport
The other angle not cover below is that
the insistence of having a biometric
passport to get into the US will cause
the Europeans to reciprocate with
visiting Americans. Not everybody has
such poss ports on both sides of the
Atlantic. The US, in having unilaterally
imposed their law, will require the EU
to do the same.
It will probably end up being a mess for
several years. How much it will improve
stopping terrorism is another question,
nobody knows. But it makes the control
freaks happy.
Earl
****
Many in U.S. to need passport
By Lornet Turnbull
Seattle Times staff reporter
STEVE RINGMAN / THE SEATTLE TIMES
Changes facing travelers: how to get that passport
If you travel to the Caribbean, Mexico or even Canada, the federal
government soon will require that you have a valid passport to get back
home.
And for the first time, our Canadian neighbors also will need a passport to
travel south of the border.
Aimed at further reinforcing the U.S. perimeter against terrorist threats,
the new rules for air, land and sea travel, announced yesterday by the
departments of State and Homeland Security, will be phased in over two years
between December 2005 and December 2007.
The impact of these changes could be especially strong in the Pacific
Northwest, just south of Canada's British Columbia, site of the 2010 Winter
Olympic Games.
U.S. citizens returning now from trips to neighboring countries can use a
birth certificate and photo ID to gain entry.
The new rules will apply to U.S. citizens traveling from Canada, Mexico,
Bermuda, the Caribbean and Panama. Citizens of those countries will also
need a passport to enter the United States, which had Canadian officials
hinting yesterday that they may impose a similar requirement on U.S.
citizens traveling north.
Of the 1.2 million border crossings at Blaine between Oct. 1 and Dec. 31
last year, 61 percent were non-U.S. citizens. Of those, more than 90 percent
were Canadian.
"This is intended to enhance border security," said Mike Millne, a Homeland
Security spokesman in Seattle. "Border officers now are looking at car after
car and all manner of ID ‹ birth certificates, driver's licenses from every
state, church-denomination cards ‹ all of which are ripe for creating
fraudulent documents. It's much harder to create a fraudulent passport."
"Huge education challenge"
The new rules raise concern among some in the travel and transportation
industries who point out that up to 80 percent of Americans have never owned
a passport. (Sixty million Americans have U.S. passports, according to the
State Department, and officials expect to issue 10 million more this year.)
Seattle travel agent Dan Smith of Caribbean Adventures said that only half
of his clients traveling to destinations in the Western Hemisphere own a
passport.
He recalled a recent exchange with a client who was traveling to the British
Virgin Islands in the Caribbean to pick up a boat. When he suggested the
customer consider getting a passport, a blank look crossed the man's face
before he responded: "But I'm a dentist."
"It's not so much about getting into the foreign country as getting back to
the U.S.," Smith said.
"Americans are limited in their attitude about how to get in and out of the
country," he said. "This is going to be a huge education challenge."
A U.S. passport eliminates hassles at the border, whether by air, sea or
land, he and others said.
Operators of ferry services and cruise ships between the United States and
Canada said that while they support increased security along the U.S.
border, they worry about whether U.S. citizens will get the message.
"Many of our clients are discretionary travelers who are out on holiday or
for a convention and would like to go out to Canada for the day or
overnight," said Darrell Bryan, executive vice president and general manager
of Clipper Vacations.
His company offers ferry service between British Columbia and Washington. He
worries that visitors will forgo optional trips to Canada because they won't
have passports. "A lot of them are folks from Middle America, for whom
international travel is a trip to Canada or Mexico. How likely are they to
apply for a passport if they're only taking a trip to Canada or Mexico?"
Bryan said customers' travel documents are examined before they board and if
there are concerns, notices are sent to Canadian and U.S. border officials.
"Ninety nine point nine, nine, nine percent of Americans are not a risk," he
said. "Why inconvenience or jeopardize travel between Canada and the U.S.?"
"A heck of a lot easier"?
Rose Abello, vice president of public relations for the Seattle-based
Holland America Line cruise line, worries that with implementation as soon
as December, there won't be enough time to educate the public.
Travel documents are issued to customers close to the cruise date, not
allowing them enough time to get a passport.
She said that even with the documents, "most people won't read the
information requiring a passport."
"When you get an airline ticket, do you read the jacket?"
But Pam Christianson, president of the Chamber of Commerce in the border
community of Blaine, said she thinks that with 2-? years' notice, people
will get used to the idea that they need a passport to travel to or re-enter
the United States.
"I firmly believe it's a heck of a lot easier than taking a birth
certificate and a driver's license. It's just one piece of document."
Lornet Turnbull: 206-464-2420 or [email protected] .
Information from The Washington Post was used in this report.
the insistence of having a biometric
passport to get into the US will cause
the Europeans to reciprocate with
visiting Americans. Not everybody has
such poss ports on both sides of the
Atlantic. The US, in having unilaterally
imposed their law, will require the EU
to do the same.
It will probably end up being a mess for
several years. How much it will improve
stopping terrorism is another question,
nobody knows. But it makes the control
freaks happy.
Earl
****
Many in U.S. to need passport
By Lornet Turnbull
Seattle Times staff reporter
STEVE RINGMAN / THE SEATTLE TIMES
Changes facing travelers: how to get that passport
If you travel to the Caribbean, Mexico or even Canada, the federal
government soon will require that you have a valid passport to get back
home.
And for the first time, our Canadian neighbors also will need a passport to
travel south of the border.
Aimed at further reinforcing the U.S. perimeter against terrorist threats,
the new rules for air, land and sea travel, announced yesterday by the
departments of State and Homeland Security, will be phased in over two years
between December 2005 and December 2007.
The impact of these changes could be especially strong in the Pacific
Northwest, just south of Canada's British Columbia, site of the 2010 Winter
Olympic Games.
U.S. citizens returning now from trips to neighboring countries can use a
birth certificate and photo ID to gain entry.
The new rules will apply to U.S. citizens traveling from Canada, Mexico,
Bermuda, the Caribbean and Panama. Citizens of those countries will also
need a passport to enter the United States, which had Canadian officials
hinting yesterday that they may impose a similar requirement on U.S.
citizens traveling north.
Of the 1.2 million border crossings at Blaine between Oct. 1 and Dec. 31
last year, 61 percent were non-U.S. citizens. Of those, more than 90 percent
were Canadian.
"This is intended to enhance border security," said Mike Millne, a Homeland
Security spokesman in Seattle. "Border officers now are looking at car after
car and all manner of ID ‹ birth certificates, driver's licenses from every
state, church-denomination cards ‹ all of which are ripe for creating
fraudulent documents. It's much harder to create a fraudulent passport."
"Huge education challenge"
The new rules raise concern among some in the travel and transportation
industries who point out that up to 80 percent of Americans have never owned
a passport. (Sixty million Americans have U.S. passports, according to the
State Department, and officials expect to issue 10 million more this year.)
Seattle travel agent Dan Smith of Caribbean Adventures said that only half
of his clients traveling to destinations in the Western Hemisphere own a
passport.
He recalled a recent exchange with a client who was traveling to the British
Virgin Islands in the Caribbean to pick up a boat. When he suggested the
customer consider getting a passport, a blank look crossed the man's face
before he responded: "But I'm a dentist."
"It's not so much about getting into the foreign country as getting back to
the U.S.," Smith said.
"Americans are limited in their attitude about how to get in and out of the
country," he said. "This is going to be a huge education challenge."
A U.S. passport eliminates hassles at the border, whether by air, sea or
land, he and others said.
Operators of ferry services and cruise ships between the United States and
Canada said that while they support increased security along the U.S.
border, they worry about whether U.S. citizens will get the message.
"Many of our clients are discretionary travelers who are out on holiday or
for a convention and would like to go out to Canada for the day or
overnight," said Darrell Bryan, executive vice president and general manager
of Clipper Vacations.
His company offers ferry service between British Columbia and Washington. He
worries that visitors will forgo optional trips to Canada because they won't
have passports. "A lot of them are folks from Middle America, for whom
international travel is a trip to Canada or Mexico. How likely are they to
apply for a passport if they're only taking a trip to Canada or Mexico?"
Bryan said customers' travel documents are examined before they board and if
there are concerns, notices are sent to Canadian and U.S. border officials.
"Ninety nine point nine, nine, nine percent of Americans are not a risk," he
said. "Why inconvenience or jeopardize travel between Canada and the U.S.?"
"A heck of a lot easier"?
Rose Abello, vice president of public relations for the Seattle-based
Holland America Line cruise line, worries that with implementation as soon
as December, there won't be enough time to educate the public.
Travel documents are issued to customers close to the cruise date, not
allowing them enough time to get a passport.
She said that even with the documents, "most people won't read the
information requiring a passport."
"When you get an airline ticket, do you read the jacket?"
But Pam Christianson, president of the Chamber of Commerce in the border
community of Blaine, said she thinks that with 2-? years' notice, people
will get used to the idea that they need a passport to travel to or re-enter
the United States.
"I firmly believe it's a heck of a lot easier than taking a birth
certificate and a driver's license. It's just one piece of document."
Lornet Turnbull: 206-464-2420 or [email protected] .
Information from The Washington Post was used in this report.
Apr 6th 2005, 8:47 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:
> The other angle not cover below is that
> the insistence of having a biometric
> passport to get into the US will cause
> the Europeans to reciprocate with
> visiting Americans. Not everybody has
> such poss ports on both sides of the
> Atlantic. The US, in having unilaterally
> imposed their law, will require the EU
> to do the same.
No- not necessarily. Immigration laws are not always reciprocated. Is
there a requirement now for US citizens to give fingerprints and retinal
scans upon entering the EU. Do they need to fill out a visa waiver _and_
a custom form? No.
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> The other angle not cover below is that
> the insistence of having a biometric
> passport to get into the US will cause
> the Europeans to reciprocate with
> visiting Americans. Not everybody has
> such poss ports on both sides of the
> Atlantic. The US, in having unilaterally
> imposed their law, will require the EU
> to do the same.
No- not necessarily. Immigration laws are not always reciprocated. Is
there a requirement now for US citizens to give fingerprints and retinal
scans upon entering the EU. Do they need to fill out a visa waiver _and_
a custom form? No.
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
Apr 6th 2005, 9:18 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:
> Many in U.S. to need passport
>
> By Lornet Turnbull
>
> Seattle Times staff reporter
>
<snip>
> The new rules raise concern among some in the travel and transportation
> industries who point out that up to 80 percent of Americans have never owned
> a passport.
'Up to 80 percent'??? Is this reporter careless or just clueless? An
American passport is the property of the US government and it says so
quite explicitly in the fine print. NO American has ever 'owned' a
passport.
cheers,
Henry
> Many in U.S. to need passport
>
> By Lornet Turnbull
>
> Seattle Times staff reporter
>
<snip>
> The new rules raise concern among some in the travel and transportation
> industries who point out that up to 80 percent of Americans have never owned
> a passport.
'Up to 80 percent'??? Is this reporter careless or just clueless? An
American passport is the property of the US government and it says so
quite explicitly in the fine print. NO American has ever 'owned' a
passport.
cheers,
Henry
Apr 6th 2005, 9:59 am
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
On 6/04/05 11:18, in article 1gulja6.17394ju5i4vb4N%[email protected],
"Henry" <[email protected]> wrote:
> The new rules raise concern among some in the travel and transportation
>> industries who point out that up to 80 percent of Americans have never owned
>> a passport.
>
>
> 'Up to 80 percent'??? Is this reporter careless or just clueless? An
> American passport is the property of the US government and it says so
> quite explicitly in the fine print. NO American has ever 'owned' a
> passport.
You are right, of course.
Nobody reads the "fine print". The idea is if you paid for something
you own it. Wrong!
Implicitly, there does not seem to be any court ruling indicating that
you have a "right" to a passport. The US passport "must be surrendered
on demand if made by an authorized representative of the United
States Government.", as it states in the part the US owning the passport.
A biography of Richard Wright (a black author who died in Paris in 1960)
I read recently mentioned a Paris US Embassy official known as " Spider
Snyder" who took US passports away from American ex-pats living in Paris
if she thought their opinions were not in the national interest. She
exchanged them for lasser-passer papers to return to the US. *
Recently, the US Government just issued a US stamp honoring Paul Robeson,
whose passport was refused because of his left wing activities and
membership in the US Communist Party. *The US Supreme Court decided in 1958
that this kind of passport control for reasons of opinion was
unconstitutional.
My French passport also says that the passport "demeure la propriété
de L'Etat français" but I see no mention about surrendering it
on demand to a French official. I suspect that is understood.
I am not familiar with whether the French Government
did not issue passports for political reasons in the past.
My French national identity card says nothing about ownership.
Put I paid nothing for it nor my French driver`s license, both were
freebees.
Earl
"Henry" <[email protected]> wrote:
> The new rules raise concern among some in the travel and transportation
>> industries who point out that up to 80 percent of Americans have never owned
>> a passport.
>
>
> 'Up to 80 percent'??? Is this reporter careless or just clueless? An
> American passport is the property of the US government and it says so
> quite explicitly in the fine print. NO American has ever 'owned' a
> passport.
You are right, of course.
Nobody reads the "fine print". The idea is if you paid for something
you own it. Wrong!
Implicitly, there does not seem to be any court ruling indicating that
you have a "right" to a passport. The US passport "must be surrendered
on demand if made by an authorized representative of the United
States Government.", as it states in the part the US owning the passport.
A biography of Richard Wright (a black author who died in Paris in 1960)
I read recently mentioned a Paris US Embassy official known as " Spider
Snyder" who took US passports away from American ex-pats living in Paris
if she thought their opinions were not in the national interest. She
exchanged them for lasser-passer papers to return to the US. *
Recently, the US Government just issued a US stamp honoring Paul Robeson,
whose passport was refused because of his left wing activities and
membership in the US Communist Party. *The US Supreme Court decided in 1958
that this kind of passport control for reasons of opinion was
unconstitutional.
My French passport also says that the passport "demeure la propriété
de L'Etat français" but I see no mention about surrendering it
on demand to a French official. I suspect that is understood.
I am not familiar with whether the French Government
did not issue passports for political reasons in the past.
My French national identity card says nothing about ownership.
Put I paid nothing for it nor my French driver`s license, both were
freebees.
Earl
Apr 6th 2005, 11:52 am
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
>Is there a requirement now for US citizens to give fingerprints and
retinal scans upon
> entering the EU.
The EU is already going the same way that the US is going and requiring
fingerprints and facial information in the passport. Members of the EU
were in this discussion before the US started to go into this protect
the borders mode, and were going to require facial info with
fingerprint optional, but will probably be requiring the fingerprint
later this year still some disagreements between members. Some
countries want additional information then others do.
Have not heard of the US or any Europe country requiring retinal
infomation yet, thought that was just happening in parts of asia and
africa. Which ones are you refering to?
retinal scans upon
> entering the EU.
The EU is already going the same way that the US is going and requiring
fingerprints and facial information in the passport. Members of the EU
were in this discussion before the US started to go into this protect
the borders mode, and were going to require facial info with
fingerprint optional, but will probably be requiring the fingerprint
later this year still some disagreements between members. Some
countries want additional information then others do.
Have not heard of the US or any Europe country requiring retinal
infomation yet, thought that was just happening in parts of asia and
africa. Which ones are you refering to?
Apr 6th 2005, 12:05 pm
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
"Henry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1gulja6.17394ju5i4vb4N%[email protected]...
> 'Up to 80 percent'??? Is this reporter careless or just clueless? An
> American passport is the property of the US government and it says so
> quite explicitly in the fine print. NO American has ever 'owned' a
> passport.
Don't be pedantic.
--
Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
news:1gulja6.17394ju5i4vb4N%[email protected]...
> 'Up to 80 percent'??? Is this reporter careless or just clueless? An
> American passport is the property of the US government and it says so
> quite explicitly in the fine print. NO American has ever 'owned' a
> passport.
Don't be pedantic.
--
Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
Apr 6th 2005, 12:20 pm
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
Earl Evleth wrote:
> The other angle not cover below is that
> the insistence of having a biometric
> passport to get into the US will cause
> the Europeans to reciprocate with
> visiting Americans.
A news show that I watched had indicated that when the US implements
their biometric passport requirement, it will only require that a
country must
have begun to issue biometric passports by a certain date and as long
as that
was met, then all passport holders from that country would still
continue to
have visa-free travel to the US. In other words, a person with a
non-biometric
passport would not have to go and get a biometric one immediately, as
long as
his country has started to issue biometric passports.
> The other angle not cover below is that
> the insistence of having a biometric
> passport to get into the US will cause
> the Europeans to reciprocate with
> visiting Americans.
A news show that I watched had indicated that when the US implements
their biometric passport requirement, it will only require that a
country must
have begun to issue biometric passports by a certain date and as long
as that
was met, then all passport holders from that country would still
continue to
have visa-free travel to the US. In other words, a person with a
non-biometric
passport would not have to go and get a biometric one immediately, as
long as
his country has started to issue biometric passports.
Apr 6th 2005, 12:22 pm
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn wrote:
> Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:
> > The other angle not cover below is that
> > the insistence of having a biometric
> > passport to get into the US will cause
> > the Europeans to reciprocate with
> > visiting Americans. Not everybody has
> > such poss ports on both sides of the
> > Atlantic. The US, in having unilaterally
> > imposed their law, will require the EU
> > to do the same.
> No- not necessarily. Immigration laws are not always reciprocated. Is
> there a requirement now for US citizens to give fingerprints and
retinal
> scans upon entering the EU. Do they need to fill out a visa waiver
_and_
> a custom form? No.
Additionally, for years, British and Irish citizens needed visas to
visit the US,
but US citizens did not need visas to visit Britain and Ireland.
> Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:
> > The other angle not cover below is that
> > the insistence of having a biometric
> > passport to get into the US will cause
> > the Europeans to reciprocate with
> > visiting Americans. Not everybody has
> > such poss ports on both sides of the
> > Atlantic. The US, in having unilaterally
> > imposed their law, will require the EU
> > to do the same.
> No- not necessarily. Immigration laws are not always reciprocated. Is
> there a requirement now for US citizens to give fingerprints and
retinal
> scans upon entering the EU. Do they need to fill out a visa waiver
_and_
> a custom form? No.
Additionally, for years, British and Irish citizens needed visas to
visit the US,
but US citizens did not need visas to visit Britain and Ireland.
Apr 6th 2005, 2:04 pm
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
Earl Evleth schrieb:
> The other angle not cover below is that
> the insistence of having a biometric
> passport to get into the US will cause
> the Europeans to reciprocate with
> visiting Americans. Not everybody has
> such poss ports on both sides of the
> Atlantic. The US, in having unilaterally
> imposed their law, will require the EU
> to do the same.
>
> It will probably end up being a mess for
> several years. How much it will improve
> stopping terrorism is another question,
> nobody knows. But it makes the control
> freaks happy.
>
> Earl
>
> ****
no wonder, as far as I've heard are Mr. Primakov (former KGB) and
Markus Wolf (former Stasi) now working for the US Homeland Security.
wonderful prospects for the future.
> The other angle not cover below is that
> the insistence of having a biometric
> passport to get into the US will cause
> the Europeans to reciprocate with
> visiting Americans. Not everybody has
> such poss ports on both sides of the
> Atlantic. The US, in having unilaterally
> imposed their law, will require the EU
> to do the same.
>
> It will probably end up being a mess for
> several years. How much it will improve
> stopping terrorism is another question,
> nobody knows. But it makes the control
> freaks happy.
>
> Earl
>
> ****
no wonder, as far as I've heard are Mr. Primakov (former KGB) and
Markus Wolf (former Stasi) now working for the US Homeland Security.
wonderful prospects for the future.
Apr 6th 2005, 3:07 pm
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:
> My French passport also says that the passport "demeure la propriété
> de L'Etat français" but I see no mention about surrendering it
> on demand to a French official.
When your passport expires, you will have to give it back to the
Préfecture clerk who will send it to the Domaines to destruction. If for
any reason you want to keep it, they will cut an angle and stamp an
"ANNULE" tampon on the pages.
--
inversez "kertanguy" et "de" pour me joindre
> My French passport also says that the passport "demeure la propriété
> de L'Etat français" but I see no mention about surrendering it
> on demand to a French official.
When your passport expires, you will have to give it back to the
Préfecture clerk who will send it to the Domaines to destruction. If for
any reason you want to keep it, they will cut an angle and stamp an
"ANNULE" tampon on the pages.
--
inversez "kertanguy" et "de" pour me joindre
Apr 6th 2005, 3:53 pm
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
On 6/04/05 17:07, in article
1gulvhs.1qc1zl7c3aogbN%stanislas.kertanguyde@lapos te.net, "Stanislas de
Kertanguy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> When your passport expires, you will have to give it back to the
> Préfecture clerk who will send it to the Domaines to destruction. If for
> any reason you want to keep it, they will cut an angle and stamp an
> "ANNULE" tampon on the pages.
This is true in my older expired French passports. But the one that ran
out in 1998, they did not. But on ALL of the old one's they
cut the corner off. Our older French passports only went 5 years,
for 350 francs in stamps, which I thought was pretty expensive
at the time. We now have a 10 year card we renewed in 2003 and
it goes to 2013.
Whatever, the expiration dates are given on all passports.
Some countries are antsy about letting people in. I remember
Egypt requiring that the passport can't expire less than
something 6 months after leaving the country.
Since we have both US and French passports we are not effected
by the biometric requirement unless either country requires
that to return you have to have one. I don't see anything
very biometric about the recently issued 2003 French passport.
If biometric is required for us we would have to change our
passports, which costs money. The same with our US
passports which were renewed a few years ago.
The whole thing does have an absurd element to it. Like the FBI
wanting the uncontrolled right to see what books people
check out of the library in the USA without probable cause.
Snoops, pure and simple.
Earl
1gulvhs.1qc1zl7c3aogbN%stanislas.kertanguyde@lapos te.net, "Stanislas de
Kertanguy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> When your passport expires, you will have to give it back to the
> Préfecture clerk who will send it to the Domaines to destruction. If for
> any reason you want to keep it, they will cut an angle and stamp an
> "ANNULE" tampon on the pages.
This is true in my older expired French passports. But the one that ran
out in 1998, they did not. But on ALL of the old one's they
cut the corner off. Our older French passports only went 5 years,
for 350 francs in stamps, which I thought was pretty expensive
at the time. We now have a 10 year card we renewed in 2003 and
it goes to 2013.
Whatever, the expiration dates are given on all passports.
Some countries are antsy about letting people in. I remember
Egypt requiring that the passport can't expire less than
something 6 months after leaving the country.
Since we have both US and French passports we are not effected
by the biometric requirement unless either country requires
that to return you have to have one. I don't see anything
very biometric about the recently issued 2003 French passport.
If biometric is required for us we would have to change our
passports, which costs money. The same with our US
passports which were renewed a few years ago.
The whole thing does have an absurd element to it. Like the FBI
wanting the uncontrolled right to see what books people
check out of the library in the USA without probable cause.
Snoops, pure and simple.
Earl
Apr 6th 2005, 3:59 pm
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:
> Our older French passports only went 5 years,
> for 350 francs in stamps, which I thought was pretty expensive
> at the time.
Older passports were vaild 5 years for travelling abroad and 5 further
years as an ID in France. Now it's 60 euros and 10 years (until they
bring out the biometric passport, in a few years, which is likely to
cost more...)
This biometric thing is just getting pretty ridiculous IMHO, and this
obsession of USA with border-controlling "terrrrrrrrrists"
counter-productive. Just my two cents.
--
inversez "kertanguy" et "de" pour me joindre
> Our older French passports only went 5 years,
> for 350 francs in stamps, which I thought was pretty expensive
> at the time.
Older passports were vaild 5 years for travelling abroad and 5 further
years as an ID in France. Now it's 60 euros and 10 years (until they
bring out the biometric passport, in a few years, which is likely to
cost more...)
This biometric thing is just getting pretty ridiculous IMHO, and this
obsession of USA with border-controlling "terrrrrrrrrists"
counter-productive. Just my two cents.
--
inversez "kertanguy" et "de" pour me joindre
Apr 6th 2005, 4:09 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
On 6/04/05 10:47, in article
1gulcdu.1rsf6tg1ijbq58N%this_address_is_for_spam@y ahoo.com, "chancellor of
the duchy of besses o' th' barn" <[email protected]> wrote:
> No- not necessarily. Immigration laws are not always reciprocated. Is
> there a requirement now for US citizens to give fingerprints and retinal
> scans upon entering the EU. Do they need to fill out a visa waiver _and_
> a custom form? No.
No but the idea in the press has been expressed that the EU might
have to impose such rules.
The US goes a little crazy at times, the visa waiver form is an absurd one,
the question are ----
A
Do you have a communicable disease physical or
mental disorder, or are you a drug abuser or addict ?
(if you answer yes, problems start. The common cold
is communicable, so are some serious illnesses. The
drug abuser question also is a question people will
lie on)
B
Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense
or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation
related to a controlled substance; or have been arrested
or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence
to confinement was five years or more; or have been a controlled
substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal
or immoral activities ?
("arrested" but not convicted category falls into the category
of "not guilty", the question should not be asked.)
C
Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or in
terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were you
involved; in any way in persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its
allies?
(funny, a spy confession on a form!)
D
Are you seeking to work in the U.S.; or have you ever been excluded and
deported; or have been previously removed from the United States; or
procurred or attempted to procure a visa or entry into the U.S. by fraud or
by misrepresentation ? `
(no problem)
E
Have you ever detained, retained or witheld custody
of a child from a U.S. citizen granted
custody of the child?
(a rare problem
F
Have you ever been denied a U.S. visa or entry into the U.S. or had a U.S.
visa canceled? If yes; when and where ?
G
Have you ever asserted immunity from prosecution ?
(???? What does that mean)
*****
I have long noticed that the French don't to out of their way to ask silly
questions, they will jump on people of the need arises. As visitors
to both US and French prisons, the main difference is that the latter
never post rules, the US prisons has them all over the place. They are
sometimes silly ones. For instance to visit the prison at Florence Arizona
all visitors must wear underwear! Nobody checks but that is the rule.
The French will jump on your if you break a rule (fear not, there is one)
and they want to.
Earl
1gulcdu.1rsf6tg1ijbq58N%this_address_is_for_spam@y ahoo.com, "chancellor of
the duchy of besses o' th' barn" <[email protected]> wrote:
> No- not necessarily. Immigration laws are not always reciprocated. Is
> there a requirement now for US citizens to give fingerprints and retinal
> scans upon entering the EU. Do they need to fill out a visa waiver _and_
> a custom form? No.
No but the idea in the press has been expressed that the EU might
have to impose such rules.
The US goes a little crazy at times, the visa waiver form is an absurd one,
the question are ----
A
Do you have a communicable disease physical or
mental disorder, or are you a drug abuser or addict ?
(if you answer yes, problems start. The common cold
is communicable, so are some serious illnesses. The
drug abuser question also is a question people will
lie on)
B
Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense
or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation
related to a controlled substance; or have been arrested
or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence
to confinement was five years or more; or have been a controlled
substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal
or immoral activities ?
("arrested" but not convicted category falls into the category
of "not guilty", the question should not be asked.)
C
Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or in
terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were you
involved; in any way in persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its
allies?
(funny, a spy confession on a form!)
D
Are you seeking to work in the U.S.; or have you ever been excluded and
deported; or have been previously removed from the United States; or
procurred or attempted to procure a visa or entry into the U.S. by fraud or
by misrepresentation ? `
(no problem)
E
Have you ever detained, retained or witheld custody
of a child from a U.S. citizen granted
custody of the child?
(a rare problem
F
Have you ever been denied a U.S. visa or entry into the U.S. or had a U.S.
visa canceled? If yes; when and where ?
G
Have you ever asserted immunity from prosecution ?
(???? What does that mean)
*****
I have long noticed that the French don't to out of their way to ask silly
questions, they will jump on people of the need arises. As visitors
to both US and French prisons, the main difference is that the latter
never post rules, the US prisons has them all over the place. They are
sometimes silly ones. For instance to visit the prison at Florence Arizona
all visitors must wear underwear! Nobody checks but that is the rule.
The French will jump on your if you break a rule (fear not, there is one)
and they want to.
Earl
Apr 6th 2005, 4:27 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BE79D64D.5F449%[email protected]...
> On 6/04/05 10:47, in article
> 1gulcdu.1rsf6tg1ijbq58N%this_address_is_for_spam@y ahoo.com, "chancellor of
> the duchy of besses o' th' barn" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> No- not necessarily. Immigration laws are not always reciprocated. Is
>> there a requirement now for US citizens to give fingerprints and retinal
>> scans upon entering the EU. Do they need to fill out a visa waiver _and_
>> a custom form? No.
> No but the idea in the press has been expressed that the EU might
> have to impose such rules.
> The US goes a little crazy at times, the visa waiver form is an absurd
> one,
> the question are ----
> A
> Do you have a communicable disease physical or
> mental disorder, or are you a drug abuser or addict ?
> (if you answer yes, problems start. The common cold
> is communicable, so are some serious illnesses. The
> drug abuser question also is a question people will
> lie on)
> B
> Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense
> or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation
> related to a controlled substance; or have been arrested
> or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence
> to confinement was five years or more; or have been a controlled
> substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal
> or immoral activities ?
> ("arrested" but not convicted category falls into the category
> of "not guilty", the question should not be asked.)
> C
> Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or in
> terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were you
> involved; in any way in persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its
> allies?
> (funny, a spy confession on a form!)
> D
> Are you seeking to work in the U.S.; or have you ever been excluded and
> deported; or have been previously removed from the United States; or
> procurred or attempted to procure a visa or entry into the U.S. by fraud
> or
> by misrepresentation ? `
> (no problem)
> E
> Have you ever detained, retained or witheld custody
> of a child from a U.S. citizen granted
> custody of the child?
> (a rare problem
> F
> Have you ever been denied a U.S. visa or entry into the U.S. or had a U.S.
> visa canceled? If yes; when and where ?
> G
> Have you ever asserted immunity from prosecution ?
What it says, various people have immunity from prosection
on occasion. Diplomats serving on station perhaps
or someone who has been granted immunity for
providing evidence against fellow criminals.
General Pinochet asserted just such immunity you may recall
> (???? What does that mean)
> *****
> I have long noticed that the French don't to out of their way to ask silly
> questions, they will jump on people of the need arises. As visitors
> to both US and French prisons, the main difference is that the latter
> never post rules, the US prisons has them all over the place. They are
> sometimes silly ones. For instance to visit the prison at Florence Arizona
> all visitors must wear underwear! Nobody checks but that is the rule.
> The French will jump on your if you break a rule (fear not, there is one)
> and they want to.
As does everyone else, which is why most of those questions
are on the form. It almost gurantees some immigration official
can deny you access if he wants to.
e.g.
You lied on your Visa Waiver form Question A - I can tell you
have a communicable disease from the way you sniffle and
you must be crazy visiting Minneapolis in Febuary :)
Keith
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
news:BE79D64D.5F449%[email protected]...
> On 6/04/05 10:47, in article
> 1gulcdu.1rsf6tg1ijbq58N%this_address_is_for_spam@y ahoo.com, "chancellor of
> the duchy of besses o' th' barn" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> No- not necessarily. Immigration laws are not always reciprocated. Is
>> there a requirement now for US citizens to give fingerprints and retinal
>> scans upon entering the EU. Do they need to fill out a visa waiver _and_
>> a custom form? No.
> No but the idea in the press has been expressed that the EU might
> have to impose such rules.
> The US goes a little crazy at times, the visa waiver form is an absurd
> one,
> the question are ----
> A
> Do you have a communicable disease physical or
> mental disorder, or are you a drug abuser or addict ?
> (if you answer yes, problems start. The common cold
> is communicable, so are some serious illnesses. The
> drug abuser question also is a question people will
> lie on)
> B
> Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense
> or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation
> related to a controlled substance; or have been arrested
> or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence
> to confinement was five years or more; or have been a controlled
> substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal
> or immoral activities ?
> ("arrested" but not convicted category falls into the category
> of "not guilty", the question should not be asked.)
> C
> Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or in
> terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were you
> involved; in any way in persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its
> allies?
> (funny, a spy confession on a form!)
> D
> Are you seeking to work in the U.S.; or have you ever been excluded and
> deported; or have been previously removed from the United States; or
> procurred or attempted to procure a visa or entry into the U.S. by fraud
> or
> by misrepresentation ? `
> (no problem)
> E
> Have you ever detained, retained or witheld custody
> of a child from a U.S. citizen granted
> custody of the child?
> (a rare problem
> F
> Have you ever been denied a U.S. visa or entry into the U.S. or had a U.S.
> visa canceled? If yes; when and where ?
> G
> Have you ever asserted immunity from prosecution ?
What it says, various people have immunity from prosection
on occasion. Diplomats serving on station perhaps
or someone who has been granted immunity for
providing evidence against fellow criminals.
General Pinochet asserted just such immunity you may recall
> (???? What does that mean)
> *****
> I have long noticed that the French don't to out of their way to ask silly
> questions, they will jump on people of the need arises. As visitors
> to both US and French prisons, the main difference is that the latter
> never post rules, the US prisons has them all over the place. They are
> sometimes silly ones. For instance to visit the prison at Florence Arizona
> all visitors must wear underwear! Nobody checks but that is the rule.
> The French will jump on your if you break a rule (fear not, there is one)
> and they want to.
As does everyone else, which is why most of those questions
are on the form. It almost gurantees some immigration official
can deny you access if he wants to.
e.g.
You lied on your Visa Waiver form Question A - I can tell you
have a communicable disease from the way you sniffle and
you must be crazy visiting Minneapolis in Febuary :)
Keith
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Apr 6th 2005, 4:29 pm
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Many in U.S. to need passport
Earl Evleth wrote:
>
> I have long noticed that the French don't to out of their way to ask silly
> questions, they will jump on people of the need arises. As visitors
> to both US and French prisons, the main difference is that the latter
> never post rules, the US prisons has them all over the place. They are
> sometimes silly ones. For instance to visit the prison at Florence Arizona
> all visitors must wear underwear! Nobody checks but that is the rule.
>
Seems to be a country of rules. A woman I know took her son to a
swimming pool, and was told off by an official for allowing her child to
dive in more than twice. There's apparently a limit.
>
> I have long noticed that the French don't to out of their way to ask silly
> questions, they will jump on people of the need arises. As visitors
> to both US and French prisons, the main difference is that the latter
> never post rules, the US prisons has them all over the place. They are
> sometimes silly ones. For instance to visit the prison at Florence Arizona
> all visitors must wear underwear! Nobody checks but that is the rule.
>
Seems to be a country of rules. A woman I know took her son to a
swimming pool, and was told off by an official for allowing her child to
dive in more than twice. There's apparently a limit.