Jordi

Tim Challenger wrote:
    > Doesn't EU law state that all prices must be inclusive of all taxes
unless
    > clearly stated?

In this context, 'clearly' seems to mean putting 'IVA no incluido' in
the tiniest font available at the bottom of the page.

AFAIK there are two basic types of restaurants who do not put the
applicable VAT on their menues, those upmarket (or wannabe, anyway) and
those who want to catch people with a seemingly lower price.

They are not the majority, anyway, although not uncommon. Just a quick
look at the bottom of the page should suffice.


J.

Tim Challenger

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 11:07:53 +0000, The Reids wrote:

    > Following up to Padraig Breathnach
    >
    >>>That was my question: Were you able to find restaurants with English
    >>>menues and many local customers?
    >>Yes. Remember that many local people work in tourist areas, some in
    >>tourism-related activity.
    >
    > But remember that menu descriptions are notoriously unreliable in
    > English. We always ask for one english and one spanish as many
    > dishes we only know a spanish name and many fish don't have an
    > english name or are routinely miss described.

For a laugh I try read the English menu at work to try and guess what
they're serving. I'm only very occasionally completely right.
However, I did once translate the a la carte menu for a bar/restaurant I
was a regular in a the time. It is harder than you might think to come up
with something that accurately describes what you're about to order *and*
doesn't sound like a pathologist's report.

--
Tim C.

The Reids

Following up to Tim Challenger

    >For a laugh I try read the English menu at work to try and guess what
    >they're serving. I'm only very occasionally completely right.
    >However, I did once translate the a la carte menu for a bar/restaurant I
    >was a regular in a the time. It is harder than you might think to come up
    >with something that accurately describes what you're about to order *and*
    >doesn't sound like a pathologist's report.

something that few places seem to do. It amazes me that places
don't get a friendly Brit to go over the translation, they don't
even have to speak Spanish, just pointing out the ones which look
mad would be a start! Even the paradores are not that good, but I
suppose you need to do it every time you add a dish. It must be
frustrating taking all the various names for types of seafood and
be told "prawn" or "there isn't one" 9 times out of 10!
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Nitram

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 13:07:31 +0100, Tim Challenger
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 11:07:53 +0000, The Reids wrote:
    >> Following up to Padraig Breathnach
    >>
    >>>>That was my question: Were you able to find restaurants with English
    >>>>menues and many local customers?
    >>>Yes. Remember that many local people work in tourist areas, some in
    >>>tourism-related activity.
    >>
    >> But remember that menu descriptions are notoriously unreliable in
    >> English. We always ask for one english and one spanish as many
    >> dishes we only know a spanish name and many fish don't have an
    >> english name or are routinely miss described.
    >For a laugh I try read the English menu at work to try and guess what
    >they're serving. I'm only very occasionally completely right.

The French menu in the hotel in Aying contains completely different
food to the English and German menus.
--
Martin

Nitram

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:47:15 +0000, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Following up to Tim Challenger
    >>For a laugh I try read the English menu at work to try and guess what
    >>they're serving. I'm only very occasionally completely right.
    >>However, I did once translate the a la carte menu for a bar/restaurant I
    >>was a regular in a the time. It is harder than you might think to come up
    >>with something that accurately describes what you're about to order *and*
    >>doesn't sound like a pathologist's report.
    >something that few places seem to do. It amazes me that places
    >don't get a friendly Brit to go over the translation, they don't
    >even have to speak Spanish, just pointing out the ones which look
    >mad would be a start! Even the paradores are not that good, but I
    >suppose you need to do it every time you add a dish. It must be
    >frustrating taking all the various names for types of seafood and
    >be told "prawn" or "there isn't one" 9 times out of 10!

The Greek system is best, they show you the food. There's no ambiguity
about that.
--
Martin

B Vaughan

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:47:15 +0000, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Following up to Tim Challenger
    >>For a laugh I try read the English menu at work to try and guess what
    >>they're serving. I'm only very occasionally completely right.
    >>However, I did once translate the a la carte menu for a bar/restaurant I
    >>was a regular in a the time. It is harder than you might think to come up
    >>with something that accurately describes what you're about to order *and*
    >>doesn't sound like a pathologist's report.
    >something that few places seem to do. It amazes me that places
    >don't get a friendly Brit to go over the translation, they don't
    >even have to speak Spanish, just pointing out the ones which look
    >mad would be a start! Even the paradores are not that good, but I
    >suppose you need to do it every time you add a dish. It must be
    >frustrating taking all the various names for types of seafood and
    >be told "prawn" or "there isn't one" 9 times out of 10!

Not only in Spain. And not only menus, but also tourist brochures,
tourism web sites, signs in museums, etc. I have seen elaborate glossy
publications in Italy that must have cost a fortune, printed in
Italian and English. No expense spared on anything, but the
translation done by somebody's nephew who studied English at
university and spent two weeks in England.

--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

Jordi

nitram wrote:
    > The Greek system is best, they show you the food. There's no
ambiguity
    > about that.

Waiters once had to resort to that technique with me in Bulgaria last
week.

At least I didn't ask them on *what* exactly was in the plate, so I
just hope I figured it out fine.

J.

Tim

"B Vaughan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:47:15 +0000, The Reids
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Following up to Tim Challenger
    >>>For a laugh I try read the English menu at work to try and guess what
    >>>they're serving. I'm only very occasionally completely right.
    >>>However, I did once translate the a la carte menu for a bar/restaurant I
    >>>was a regular in a the time. It is harder than you might think to come up
    >>>with something that accurately describes what you're about to order *and*
    >>>doesn't sound like a pathologist's report.
    >>something that few places seem to do. It amazes me that places
    >>don't get a friendly Brit to go over the translation, they don't
    >>even have to speak Spanish, just pointing out the ones which look
    >>mad would be a start! Even the paradores are not that good, but I
    >>suppose you need to do it every time you add a dish. It must be
    >>frustrating taking all the various names for types of seafood and
    >>be told "prawn" or "there isn't one" 9 times out of 10!
    > Not only in Spain. And not only menus, but also tourist brochures,
    > tourism web sites, signs in museums, etc.

The security notice at a middle sized Interrnational airport
in Germany begins: "our honorable guests...".
There must be dozens of english speaking airline staff who
walk past it every day and can see that it is silly, but
no-one bothers to fix it.

tim

Gunter Herrmann

Hi!

tim wrote:

    > The security notice at a middle sized Interrnational airport
    > in Germany begins: "our honorable guests...".
    > There must be dozens of english speaking airline staff who
    > walk past it every day and can see that it is silly, but
    > no-one bothers to fix it.

But this happens the other way round too:

When I visited London in 1992 I went to the Tower as well.
They had some displays in what was supposed to be German.
I (a native German) could only understand what it was supposed to
mean by reading the English version.

Different example about the same time:
Microsoft Excel 4.0, German version.
You sometimes had to think which original English text badly
translated into German this would be to understand.

brgds

--
Gunter Herrmann
Naples, Florida, USA

Tim

"Gunter Herrmann" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Hi!
    > tim wrote:
    >> The security notice at a middle sized Interrnational airport
    >> in Germany begins: " ourhonorableguests....
    >> There must be dozens of english speaking airline staff who
    >> walk past it every day and can see that it is silly, but
    >> no-one bothers to fix it.
    > But this happens the other way round too:

well of course it does,
but the point that I was making is that the airport has dozens
of English speaking staff who have the means as well as the
knowledge to get it corrected.

I doubt that many attractions in London employ someone
who is fluent in the necessary languages.

tim

Icono Clast

Padraig Breathnach wrote:
    > I still don't understand the deal with tapas. Some bars seem to
    > charge for them, while others put them up free

I was there during Franco's reign. There was NEVER a charge for tapas
ANYwhere.

    > We have a strategy for choosing restaurants in cities we don't
    > know. The first criterion is that the place be busy, particularly
    > with a clientele that is, so far as we can guess, local.

My First Law of Travel is:
Go where's it's crowded; they know something you don't!

[A couple who visited London told me it doesn't work for restaurants
there. Having been compelled to ingest sustenance there, I understand.]

    > Whether our method was successful, or it just happens that food in
    > Madrid is universally good, we were pleased with all our meals.

I never had a bad meal in Spain, even when the price was the same as
a pack of cigarettes or bus fare (yes, it was CHEAP then).

MENUS AND TRANSLATIONS
Nitram said:
    > The Greek system is best, they show you the food. There's no
    > ambiguity about that.

In countries where I have no idea of the language, I ask to visit the
kitchen where I select what look interesting. I've eaten some things
I have no idea what were and I've made selections that looked very
strange but proved to be quite familiar except for preparation.

B.Vaughan said:
    > translation done by somebody's nephew who studied English at
    > university and spent two weeks in England.

You overlooked mentioning owner's manuals for appliances and
automobiles, etc., manufactured in other countries. I think I could
make a living editing such documents providing I could figure out
what they were trying to say.
__________________________________________________ __________
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