Jim Ley <[email protected]> wrote:

    > So for you getting to KX is easier than getting to LHR, how about Gatwick
    > instead of LHR?

Gatwick is much easier, and I choose to fly into/from there whenever possible.

    > >Then you have to figure on at _least_ an hour check-in time,
    >
    > erm, no, I've never had an hours checkin on a domestic uk flight, so an hour seems
    > reasonable, but not at _least_ an hour.

I'd say at least an hour, because I wouldn't want to risk checking in any later than
that- many airlines have become much stricter wrt check-in times since September. Not
only that, as I take public transport to the airport, I simply have to leave more
time as I can't guarantee there won't be problems. I'm less concerned with the train,
because unless I'm on an apex ticket, I can always get the next train, or indeed get
on it with a couple of minutes to spare.

    > Average is completely irrelevant, it doesn't matter to me, how long it takes anyone
    > else to get to the airport what matters is how it long it takes _me_. So it's
    > pointless giving advice on the average.

Er, it's not all about _you_, you know. IME I've found that a lot of people who've
flown between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh have often found to their surprise
that the journey was more of a hassle, and took a lot longer than they had thought.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer in Association- RLPO david (at) davidhorne
(dot) co (dot) uk

On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:40:10 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne) wrote:

    >Jim Ley <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Average is completely irrelevant, it doesn't matter to me, how long it takes
    >> anyone else to get to the airport what matters is how it long it takes _me_. So
    >> it's pointless giving advice on the average.
    >
    >Er, it's not all about _you_, you know. IME I've found that a lot of people who've
    >flown between London and Glasgow and Edinburgh have often found to their surprise
    >that the journey was more of a hassle, and took a lot longer than they had thought.

Sure, but you can't say "It is faster for you to go by train" or "It's less hassle
for you to go by train".

"bus to LHR + plane + taxi" to wherever is a lot easier and faster for me, than "bus,
bus, train, underground, train, taxi" - my point is not that air is better, but air
is better for me, and unless you know more than "London - Edinburgh" you can't say
which is better in either hassle or speed times for an individual.

Jim.

Jim Ley <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Sure, but you can't say "It is faster for you to go by train" or "It's less hassle
    > for you to go by train".

Quiet right. Who said that?

    > "bus to LHR + plane + taxi" to wherever is a lot easier and faster for me, than
    > "bus, bus, train, underground, train, taxi" - my point is not that air is better,
    > but air is better for me, and unless you know more than "London - Edinburgh" you
    > can't say which is better in either hassle or speed times for an individual.

I don't believe anyone was giving you advice, and I certainly wasn't. I did post my
own experiences of plane travel from London to Scotland. I think that kind of thing
is potentially of interest to readers here.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer in Association- RLPO david (at) davidhorne
(dot) co (dot) uk

David Horne
    > Jim Ley <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Why are you assuming that getting to the station is quicker than getting to the
    > > airport and checking in? LHR is 25 minutes, Lon Paddington is 1:30mins at best
    > > for me, ...
    > Unless you live very close to both airports, it's not that much of a time savings
    > actually.
[train journey time]
    > So, it's not much more time, and I'd argue potentially less hassle-free.

It is down to 4 h 19 (timetabled!) on some trains to KX to Edinburgh, but that is
uninterrupted time that can be used for reading, sleeping, etc.

And by the time the additional costs of all the little connecting links are factored
in, the plane doesn't look so cheap. I've trained to London from central Scotland
several times, and then thought I'd "treat" myself to a flight ... never again; the
shuttle bus at Edinburgh is fairly frequent and quick, but the hour on the tube from
LHR to central London is not pleasant (I've not tried the newer alternatives, but
they cost more). For city-centre to city-centre the trains win.

    > HOWEVER.... UK long distance trains are frequently rubbish, chronically late and
    > overpriced. My last two train trips to Scotland this month were at least 40 minutes
    > late- in one case 90 minutes. I've really had it with them, and when I can get a
    > cheaper plane ticket, that's how I'm going to do it until things get better- to
    > hell with the trains.

As far as costs go, I've just checked online for travel in the first week of August
from KX, GNER have a Web Bargain Fare of £20 return - subject to availability quota,
7 days advance online booking and ticket delivery by post.

The last time I travelled south (on Virgin) there was an unexplained 20 mins delay at
Preston on the outgoing journey. The return journey was punctual. The trains were not
overcrowded and they were clean. I was a bit worried before I went as Virgin had a
reputation for poor service at the time.

If (when) airlines overbook you can end up bumped and not flying. I've never missed a
train journey through overbooking. Sat on my suitcase on local services which were
full, but at least I wasn't stuck at an airport.

Owain

Owain <[email protected]> wrote:

    > The last time I travelled south (on Virgin) there was an unexplained 20 mins delay
    > at Preston on the outgoing journey. The return journey was punctual. The trains
    > were not overcrowded and they were clean. I was a bit worried before I went as
    > Virgin had a reputation for poor service at the time.

I travel virgin west coast between London and Manchester or Liverpool at least
weekly. I find their performance appalling. I'd also point out that the peak standard
fare (which allows for _no_ special advance purchase deals) is £172. It's simply
depressing. I often pay not much more than that to fly to the US.

    > If (when) airlines overbook you can end up bumped and not flying. I've never missed
    > a train journey through overbooking.

When an airline bumps you, they usually offer compensation. I've been bumped once in
my life. I was travelling from Heathrow to Boston in 1999, and they said the flight
was full and would I be prepared to travel the next morning for £250 and a night at
their expense in the T4 Hilton? Fine, I said, and it was done. I usually _volunteer_
to be bumped, but I've never been lucky since then...

Trains don't need to bump you on long distance journeys because pax are quite happy
to sit on their cases or in the corridors, etc.

My worst Virgin experience was also from 1999. I got up at 4am to make a 6am train
from Edinburgh to Liverpool. I turned up at the station, and the train had been
cancelled with _no_ explanation or apology. I eventually got to Liverpool 3 hours
late, missed a rehearsal, had to take a cab from Warrington, and not once was my
request for compensation heeded. (They've gotten better with compensation, but
cancellations and delays are still a huge problem.)

No, our trains are awful- no wonder a lot of people get drunk on them- it's a way of
getting through the misery perhaps?

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer in Association- RLPO david (at) davidhorne
(dot) co (dot) uk

In article <[email protected]>, Jim Ley <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Why are you assuming that getting to the station is quicker than getting to the
    >airport and checking in? LHR is 25 minutes, Lon Paddington is 1:30mins at best for
    >me, as always it depends on where you are as much as the method - a plane has a
    >significant time advantage for me in getting to Scotland from London.

But if you're a tourist then you'll be staying in central London, surely?

phil

On 1 Aug 2002 13:55:19 +0100, [email protected] (Philip George) wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, Jim Ley <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Why are you assuming that getting to the station is quicker than getting to the
    >>airport and checking in? LHR is 25 minutes, Lon Paddington is 1:30mins at best for
    >>me, as always it depends on where you are as much as the method - a plane has a
    >>significant time advantage for me in getting to Scotland from London.
    >
    >But if you're a tourist then you'll be staying in central London, surely?

It's likely, but "surely" is unwarranted. While not germane to a question about
traveling to Edinburgh it happens that in the past I generally stayed with friends
north of Cambridge. Too, given the cost of lodging some tourists might stay out on
the fringes of London

It would certainly be a good idea for anyone posting such questions to mention where
their point of origin will be.

************ DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) ***********
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******

On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:37:26 -0400, S Viemeister <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The sleeper trains leave from Euston, the day trains from King's Cross.
    >
    >The seated sleeper can be quite a bargain, if you book it enough in advance. The
    >seats are very much like BA's 'cradle' seats. Check the Scotrail website -
    >
    >www.scotrail.co.uk
    >
    >Fares range from tens to hundreds of pounds, depending on ticket type, train used,
    >and time of travel.
    >
If I understand the PDF table correctly, it can be only 6-7 hours from Euston to
Edinburgh?

Sylvain