living in europe
Sep 20th 2005, 5:40 am
#76
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Re: living in europe
Magda writes:
> On which planet??
This one. Learning is fun until one is soured on the experience by
school.
--
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> On which planet??
This one. Learning is fun until one is soured on the experience by
school.
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
Sep 20th 2005, 5:41 am
#77
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Re: living in europe
DDT Filled Mormons writes:
> The motivation is by far the greatest factor in it, and thus if it
> tends to decrease with age, so does the learning ability.
But motivation does not necessarily decrease with age.
--
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> The motivation is by far the greatest factor in it, and thus if it
> tends to decrease with age, so does the learning ability.
But motivation does not necessarily decrease with age.
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
Sep 20th 2005, 5:43 am
#78
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Re: living in europe
Gregory Morrow writes:
> Well these days I figure with everyone in the world clambering to learn
> English why on *earth* would I ever even bother with wanting to learn some
> difficult and eventually fairly useless foreign tongue?
You make an important point. However, much of this depends on which
language people speak in your immediate environment. People in China
may be rushing to learn English, but that doesn't help you if you live
in a South American city where just about everyone speaks Spanish. It
will be a very, very long time before everyone speaks English as his
native language (if it ever happens at all), and it will be quite a
long time before everyone speaks English as a second language (and
that's not guaranteed to happen, either).
--
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> Well these days I figure with everyone in the world clambering to learn
> English why on *earth* would I ever even bother with wanting to learn some
> difficult and eventually fairly useless foreign tongue?
You make an important point. However, much of this depends on which
language people speak in your immediate environment. People in China
may be rushing to learn English, but that doesn't help you if you live
in a South American city where just about everyone speaks Spanish. It
will be a very, very long time before everyone speaks English as his
native language (if it ever happens at all), and it will be quite a
long time before everyone speaks English as a second language (and
that's not guaranteed to happen, either).
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
Sep 20th 2005, 5:44 am
#79
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Re: living in europe
Luigi Donatello Asero writes:
> What about older people?
Older people were teens in the 1960s at the earliest, and they are
increasingly casual in their dress, too.
> Could you distinguish one from Stockholm from one from Cleveland?
Not on sight.
--
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> What about older people?
Older people were teens in the 1960s at the earliest, and they are
increasingly casual in their dress, too.
> Could you distinguish one from Stockholm from one from Cleveland?
Not on sight.
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
Sep 20th 2005, 7:10 am
#80
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Re: living in europe
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 23:48:22 +0100, "Chris Jones"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Interesting read, to see how European things are viewed from "the other
>side". However, I'm wondering how long ago this was written? Some things,
>such as "Because credit cards are expensive, few Europeans use them" are
>simply no longer true.
It's also an indication of how difficult it is to generalise. I don't
know how old the author is, but he refers to having been in France as
a student; certainly if he'd spent time in France within the last 25
years he'd have found credit cards widely used. He's spent time more
recently in Germany, which is a little less geared up to credit cards,
though that's more a cultural thing than a case of retailers not being
able to afford the charges.
I'm puzzled by the reference to an hour of soak time in a washing
machine: the programme that we most frequently use on our Bosch
washing machine runs for just 62 minutes - though there are many
longer progammes with soaks and pre-washes that you can select if you
need them. As far as I know most washing machines these days do
accept both hot and cold fills, though they tend only to use hot fills
for the hotttest programmes.
The reference to renting unfurnished apartments which don't even have
a kitchen sink is true of Germany; it's not true of everywhere in
Europe. It's as alien to me (from Britain) as it is to the author
(from America). Similarly, don't expect to find the elaborate triage
arrangements for domestic rubbish (separating paper, different
coloured glass, etc) described here to be replicated in every country,
though in my bit of London we are now being asked to separate food and
garden waste as well as paper, plastic and glass.
And, like somebdoy else in a thread, I don't recognise the bit about
always keeping internal doors closed: of course if you have a room
that you really don't occupy, such as a spare bedroom used as a box
room, you wouldn't heat it and it would be prudent to keep the door
closed in winter, but that's the only instance that I can think of.
Actually the bit about electrical sockets in British Isles not being
standardised (in the electrical chapter on another page) rather dates
it - apart from shaver sockets, and assuming you aren't going to be
connecting up theatre lighting or heavy-duty power tools, a visitor to
Britain would only come across the standard 13-amp sockets these days.
Finally, in pedantic mode note that the phone code for London hasn't
been +44 1 for many years - it is now +44 20 .
Hope this is taken in a constructive vein...
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Interesting read, to see how European things are viewed from "the other
>side". However, I'm wondering how long ago this was written? Some things,
>such as "Because credit cards are expensive, few Europeans use them" are
>simply no longer true.
It's also an indication of how difficult it is to generalise. I don't
know how old the author is, but he refers to having been in France as
a student; certainly if he'd spent time in France within the last 25
years he'd have found credit cards widely used. He's spent time more
recently in Germany, which is a little less geared up to credit cards,
though that's more a cultural thing than a case of retailers not being
able to afford the charges.
I'm puzzled by the reference to an hour of soak time in a washing
machine: the programme that we most frequently use on our Bosch
washing machine runs for just 62 minutes - though there are many
longer progammes with soaks and pre-washes that you can select if you
need them. As far as I know most washing machines these days do
accept both hot and cold fills, though they tend only to use hot fills
for the hotttest programmes.
The reference to renting unfurnished apartments which don't even have
a kitchen sink is true of Germany; it's not true of everywhere in
Europe. It's as alien to me (from Britain) as it is to the author
(from America). Similarly, don't expect to find the elaborate triage
arrangements for domestic rubbish (separating paper, different
coloured glass, etc) described here to be replicated in every country,
though in my bit of London we are now being asked to separate food and
garden waste as well as paper, plastic and glass.
And, like somebdoy else in a thread, I don't recognise the bit about
always keeping internal doors closed: of course if you have a room
that you really don't occupy, such as a spare bedroom used as a box
room, you wouldn't heat it and it would be prudent to keep the door
closed in winter, but that's the only instance that I can think of.
Actually the bit about electrical sockets in British Isles not being
standardised (in the electrical chapter on another page) rather dates
it - apart from shaver sockets, and assuming you aren't going to be
connecting up theatre lighting or heavy-duty power tools, a visitor to
Britain would only come across the standard 13-amp sockets these days.
Finally, in pedantic mode note that the phone code for London hasn't
been +44 1 for many years - it is now +44 20 .
Hope this is taken in a constructive vein...
Martin
Sep 20th 2005, 8:18 am
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: living in europe
Following up to Gregory Morrow
>Well these days I figure with everyone in the world clambering to learn
>English why on *earth* would I ever even bother with wanting to learn some
>difficult and eventually fairly useless foreign tongue?
Well, (for Spanish) because once you get off the beaten track of
the tourist bus, you find out its a myth that everyone speaks
English now. Police, shop assistants, taxi drivers, mechanics,
even waiters in places where there are no tourists, don't speak
English. If English does become universal, it wont be in my
lifetime.
I like this thread, its increasing my motivation to learn more
Spanish.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
>Well these days I figure with everyone in the world clambering to learn
>English why on *earth* would I ever even bother with wanting to learn some
>difficult and eventually fairly useless foreign tongue?
Well, (for Spanish) because once you get off the beaten track of
the tourist bus, you find out its a myth that everyone speaks
English now. Police, shop assistants, taxi drivers, mechanics,
even waiters in places where there are no tourists, don't speak
English. If English does become universal, it wont be in my
lifetime.
I like this thread, its increasing my motivation to learn more
Spanish.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Sep 20th 2005, 8:18 am
#82
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Re: living in europe
Following up to DDT Filled Mormons and Magma
>>If you really buy this urban legend, I pity you - in a few years you'll think you are "too
>>old" for many things.
there's a vast difference between acknowledging memory tasks
become harder and thinking you are too old to do things. Your
pity is misplaced.
>>(Don't stock up the Viagra - if you need it, you are too old for sex... :pp)
>I wont be needing it for a while yet.
Me neither, even though I struggle with Spanish!
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
>>If you really buy this urban legend, I pity you - in a few years you'll think you are "too
>>old" for many things.
there's a vast difference between acknowledging memory tasks
become harder and thinking you are too old to do things. Your
pity is misplaced.
>>(Don't stock up the Viagra - if you need it, you are too old for sex... :pp)
>I wont be needing it for a while yet.
Me neither, even though I struggle with Spanish!
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Sep 20th 2005, 8:18 am
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: living in europe
Following up to The Rev Gaston
>In our local bar on Saturday, a drunk was gesticulating at us and
>making remarks about George Bush. He was quite amiable, but quite
>deluded, snce our table consisted of two Italians, a Greek, and a Brit.
I assume he was deluded about you, not Bush?
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
>In our local bar on Saturday, a drunk was gesticulating at us and
>making remarks about George Bush. He was quite amiable, but quite
>deluded, snce our table consisted of two Italians, a Greek, and a Brit.
I assume he was deluded about you, not Bush?
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Sep 20th 2005, 8:18 am
#84
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Re: living in europe
Following up to chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
prestwich tesco 24h offy
>> To keep a low profile, speak softly, eat everything without making a face
>> and NOT start every sentence with "In America...".
>That's a stereotype, maybe, but not reality. You should have met my ex-
>the quietest-spoken American (or any nationality) in the world!
I'll put up any Spaniard against any American for speaking
loudly, I don't think Americans speak that loud, they get that
reputation from (a) compared to Englishmen and (b) making
"howlers" at the wrong time, which *seems* loud and of course
with other nationalities, goes uncomprehended.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
prestwich tesco 24h offy
>> To keep a low profile, speak softly, eat everything without making a face
>> and NOT start every sentence with "In America...".
>That's a stereotype, maybe, but not reality. You should have met my ex-
>the quietest-spoken American (or any nationality) in the world!
I'll put up any Spaniard against any American for speaking
loudly, I don't think Americans speak that loud, they get that
reputation from (a) compared to Englishmen and (b) making
"howlers" at the wrong time, which *seems* loud and of course
with other nationalities, goes uncomprehended.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Sep 20th 2005, 8:18 am
#85
Guest
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Re: living in europe
Following up to chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
prestwich tesco 24h offy
>But if someone is going to hate you for making language mistakes, they
>won't hate you any less because you're an American. IOW, it will be
>probably be obvious you're not a native speaker. If you can speak the
>language "pretty good" why would you worry about someone hating you for
>a few mistakes? I really wouldn't waste your time worrying about making
>an impression on that kind of person anyway- there are few on the
>ground.
>> Plus I think I am very different from what people expect from an American.
>What do people in Europe expect from an American?
I think we expect Americans to be poorly informed on non US
issues, in a rush to see major sites rather than holiday, be rich
and be conservative on food, wanting steaks all the time. We
expect them to have had a lot of dental work and have big toothy
smiles. Oh, and right wing in politics of course. We are
surprised by those who speak Spanish.
The last half dozen Americans I got to know didn't conform to
hardly any of that. Except the smiles and the food maybe. That
smile disappears when the offal arrives :-)
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
prestwich tesco 24h offy
>But if someone is going to hate you for making language mistakes, they
>won't hate you any less because you're an American. IOW, it will be
>probably be obvious you're not a native speaker. If you can speak the
>language "pretty good" why would you worry about someone hating you for
>a few mistakes? I really wouldn't waste your time worrying about making
>an impression on that kind of person anyway- there are few on the
>ground.
>> Plus I think I am very different from what people expect from an American.
>What do people in Europe expect from an American?
I think we expect Americans to be poorly informed on non US
issues, in a rush to see major sites rather than holiday, be rich
and be conservative on food, wanting steaks all the time. We
expect them to have had a lot of dental work and have big toothy
smiles. Oh, and right wing in politics of course. We are
surprised by those who speak Spanish.
The last half dozen Americans I got to know didn't conform to
hardly any of that. Except the smiles and the food maybe. That
smile disappears when the offal arrives :-)
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Sep 20th 2005, 8:18 am
#86
Guest
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Re: living in europe
Following up to Mxsmanic
>> Also, I''m nowhere near fluent in any language but English, and
>> it's much harder to become so when one is elderly.
>Age is not an impediment to the acquisition of additional languages.
its much harder to learn languages as you get older, or any other
memory dependant thing.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
>> Also, I''m nowhere near fluent in any language but English, and
>> it's much harder to become so when one is elderly.
>Age is not an impediment to the acquisition of additional languages.
its much harder to learn languages as you get older, or any other
memory dependant thing.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Sep 20th 2005, 8:18 am
#87
Guest
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Re: living in europe
Following up to DDT Filled Mormons
>The motivation is by far the greatest factor in it, and thus if it
>tends to decrease with age, so does the learning ability.
does motivation decrease with age? I'm much more motivated to
learn Spanish than when I was at school. But memorising stuff
seems much harder.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
>The motivation is by far the greatest factor in it, and thus if it
>tends to decrease with age, so does the learning ability.
does motivation decrease with age? I'm much more motivated to
learn Spanish than when I was at school. But memorising stuff
seems much harder.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Sep 20th 2005, 8:18 am
#88
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Re: living in europe
Following up to Gregory Morrow
>I see plenty of foreign tourists here in the States. Except for their
>language, they are absolutely indistinguishable from Americans...
I reckon you have a fair chance of distinguishing an Italian from
a Brit on dress.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
>I see plenty of foreign tourists here in the States. Except for their
>language, they are absolutely indistinguishable from Americans...
I reckon you have a fair chance of distinguishing an Italian from
a Brit on dress.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Sep 20th 2005, 8:18 am
#89
Guest
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Re: living in europe
Following up to EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
>> One of my favorites is the backpackers note not to wear jeans in europe sinde
>> you will be identified as an American. On my last few trips to europe it
>> seemed everyone was wearing jeans!
>I've certainly seen "designer" jeans on plenty of young
>people in Paris and Vienna and Brussels! (Jusging from the
>variety of languages I overheard them speaking, they were
>definitely NOT Americans.)
Jeans have been popular for at least 30 years, how do these myths
carry on so long? I didn't even realise they were supposed to be
American when I was young.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
>> One of my favorites is the backpackers note not to wear jeans in europe sinde
>> you will be identified as an American. On my last few trips to europe it
>> seemed everyone was wearing jeans!
>I've certainly seen "designer" jeans on plenty of young
>people in Paris and Vienna and Brussels! (Jusging from the
>variety of languages I overheard them speaking, they were
>definitely NOT Americans.)
Jeans have been popular for at least 30 years, how do these myths
carry on so long? I didn't even realise they were supposed to be
American when I was young.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Sep 20th 2005, 8:46 am
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: living in europe
"Magda" <[email protected]> schrieb:
> ...
> ... Europeans don't generally judge Americans monolithically though.
> They do - but never to the face of an individual.
The usual construct is "everyone, with the exception of everyone I know
personally." <G>
inge
> ...
> ... Europeans don't generally judge Americans monolithically though.
> They do - but never to the face of an individual.
The usual construct is "everyone, with the exception of everyone I know
personally." <G>
inge