"irwell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:37:52 -0700, "dgs" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Standard" Flemish is so close to "Algemeen
>>Nederlands" (Dutch) that if you learn Dutch reasonably well, you'll
>>be understood in Flemish Belgium just fine.
>
> How about Afrikaans?

Afrikaans started out as Dutch, but divergence over time has caused it
to be classed as a separate language. Afrikaans has acquired a lot of
non-Dutch "loan" words, spellings have changed, grammar has simplified
a bit, and so on, although there are still similarities between the two.
Some would even say "zij zijn bijna de zelfde."

But you probably looked this up at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans
and knew this anyway.
--
dgs

Martin wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:10:14 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>'Double Shirly' Jock McShirly the Mannie Trannie wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 25 Jul, 15:15, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hello!
>>>>
>>>>I wil be travelling to Belgium (primarily the Flanders region) in a
>>>>few months and was wondering if there is a good guide to learn some
>>>>Flemish before I get there. I know Flemish is closely related to
>>>>Dutch so would a Dutch guide be all I needed? I am aware that most of
>>>>the Flemish speak English (I've been before) but would like to learn a
>>>>few basics just for the sake of being polite.
>>
>>I don't think they even PUBLISH a Flemish dictionary in the
>>U.S.! I had to make do with Dutch, which seemed to work
>>just fine. I tried to listen to the person I wished to
>>speak with, first, then address them in the language they
>>had been speaking. As you say, most are likely to speak
>>some English, but I found that, if in doubt, it was better
>>to address native Belgians in English, rather than French.
>>(Some of the Flemish citizens are a bit touchy about people
>>simply assuming Belgium is French-speaking.)
>
>
> OTOH Walloons are touchy about Flemish speakers.

That's why, when in doubt, I use English! (Belgians don't
seem to share the French aversion to tourists who address
them in English.)

On 26 Jul, 20:53, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Martin wrote:
> > On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:10:14 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>'Double Shirly' Jock McShirly the Mannie Trannie wrote:
>
> >>>On 25 Jul, 15:15, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >>>>Hello!
>
> >>>>I wil be travelling to Belgium (primarily the Flanders region) in a
> >>>>few months and was wondering if there is a good guide to learn some
> >>>>Flemish before I get there. I know Flemish is closely related to
> >>>>Dutch so would a Dutch guide be all I needed? I am aware that most of
> >>>>the Flemish speak English (I've been before) but would like to learn a
> >>>>few basics just for the sake of being polite.
>
> >>I don't think they even PUBLISH a Flemish dictionary in the
> >>U.S.! I had to make do with Dutch, which seemed to work
> >>just fine. I tried to listen to the person I wished to
> >>speak with, first, then address them in the language they
> >>had been speaking. As you say, most are likely to speak
> >>some English, but I found that, if in doubt, it was better
> >>to address native Belgians in English, rather than French.
> >>(Some of the Flemish citizens are a bit touchy about people
> >>simply assuming Belgium is French-speaking.)
>
> > OTOH Walloons are touchy about Flemish speakers.
>
> That's why, when in doubt, I use English! (Belgians don't
> seem to share the French aversion to tourists who address
> them in English.)

the French ones ?

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:54:46 -0700, "dgs" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"irwell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>
>> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:37:52 -0700, "dgs" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>"Standard" Flemish is so close to "Algemeen
>>>Nederlands" (Dutch) that if you learn Dutch reasonably well, you'll
>>>be understood in Flemish Belgium just fine.
>>
>> How about Afrikaans?
>
>Afrikaans started out as Dutch, but divergence over time has caused it
>to be classed as a separate language. Afrikaans has acquired a lot of
>non-Dutch "loan" words, spellings have changed, grammar has simplified
>a bit, and so on, although there are still similarities between the two.
>Some would even say "zij zijn bijna de zelfde."
>
>But you probably looked this up at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans
>and knew this anyway.

No, but I did take a class in Afrikaans when in South Africa
in the 1960s. Seemed to be a crude sort of language, grammar wise.

Make credence recognised that on Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:53:21 -0700,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> has scripted:

>Martin wrote:

>> OTOH Walloons are touchy about Flemish speakers.
>
>That's why, when in doubt, I use English! (Belgians don't
>seem to share the French aversion to tourists who address
>them in English.)

English is the closest thing to a neutral language. In Belgium it
seems to be the best bet, considering the options.

Not that I plan to go there soon unless the money's good.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Make credence recognised that on Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:52:07 -0700,
irwell <[email protected]> has scripted:

>On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:54:46 -0700, "dgs" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"irwell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]. ..
>>
>>> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:37:52 -0700, "dgs" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Standard" Flemish is so close to "Algemeen
>>>>Nederlands" (Dutch) that if you learn Dutch reasonably well, you'll
>>>>be understood in Flemish Belgium just fine.
>>>
>>> How about Afrikaans?
>>
>>Afrikaans started out as Dutch, but divergence over time has caused it
>>to be classed as a separate language. Afrikaans has acquired a lot of
>>non-Dutch "loan" words, spellings have changed, grammar has simplified
>>a bit, and so on, although there are still similarities between the two.
>>Some would even say "zij zijn bijna de zelfde."
>>
>>But you probably looked this up at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans
>>and knew this anyway.
>
>No, but I did take a class in Afrikaans when in South Africa
>in the 1960s. Seemed to be a crude sort of language, grammar wise.

I suspect Dutch is too.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:53:21 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>Martin wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:10:14 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>'Double Shirly' Jock McShirly the Mannie Trannie wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 25 Jul, 15:15, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hello!
>>>>>
>>>>>I wil be travelling to Belgium (primarily the Flanders region) in a
>>>>>few months and was wondering if there is a good guide to learn some
>>>>>Flemish before I get there. I know Flemish is closely related to
>>>>>Dutch so would a Dutch guide be all I needed? I am aware that most of
>>>>>the Flemish speak English (I've been before) but would like to learn a
>>>>>few basics just for the sake of being polite.
>>>
>>>I don't think they even PUBLISH a Flemish dictionary in the
>>>U.S.! I had to make do with Dutch, which seemed to work
>>>just fine. I tried to listen to the person I wished to
>>>speak with, first, then address them in the language they
>>>had been speaking. As you say, most are likely to speak
>>>some English, but I found that, if in doubt, it was better
>>>to address native Belgians in English, rather than French.
>>>(Some of the Flemish citizens are a bit touchy about people
>>>simply assuming Belgium is French-speaking.)
>>
>>
>> OTOH Walloons are touchy about Flemish speakers.
>
>That's why, when in doubt, I use English! (Belgians don't
>seem to share the French aversion to tourists who address
>them in English.)

I think you confuse language with nationality? Some French have an aversion to
Americans.
--

Martin

Martin wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:53:21 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Martin wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:10:14 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>'Double Shirly' Jock McShirly the Mannie Trannie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On 25 Jul, 15:15, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hello!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I wil be travelling to Belgium (primarily the Flanders region) in a
>>>>>>few months and was wondering if there is a good guide to learn some
>>>>>>Flemish before I get there. I know Flemish is closely related to
>>>>>>Dutch so would a Dutch guide be all I needed? I am aware that most of
>>>>>>the Flemish speak English (I've been before) but would like to learn a
>>>>>>few basics just for the sake of being polite.
>>>>
>>>>I don't think they even PUBLISH a Flemish dictionary in the
>>>>U.S.! I had to make do with Dutch, which seemed to work
>>>>just fine. I tried to listen to the person I wished to
>>>>speak with, first, then address them in the language they
>>>>had been speaking. As you say, most are likely to speak
>>>>some English, but I found that, if in doubt, it was better
>>>>to address native Belgians in English, rather than French.
>>>>(Some of the Flemish citizens are a bit touchy about people
>>>>simply assuming Belgium is French-speaking.)
>>>
>>>
>>>OTOH Walloons are touchy about Flemish speakers.
>>
>>That's why, when in doubt, I use English! (Belgians don't
>>seem to share the French aversion to tourists who address
>>them in English.)
>
>
> I think you confuse language with nationality? Some French have an aversion to
> Americans.

Perhaps, but I've made no secret of my nationality, and have
yet to encounter rude treatment by French people, even in
Paris. (But I DO try to speak French - although the French
sense of humor dictates that, despite my poor accent and
rudimentary vocabulary, they continue to reply in French
until I beg for someone who speaks English!)

On 26 Jul, 22:37, Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> Make credence recognised that on Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:52:07 -0700,
> irwell <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
>
>
> >On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:54:46 -0700, "dgs" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>"irwell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]. ..
>
> >>> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:37:52 -0700, "dgs" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>>>"Standard" Flemish is so close to "Algemeen
> >>>>Nederlands" (Dutch) that if you learn Dutch reasonably well, you'll
> >>>>be understood in Flemish Belgium just fine.
>
> >>> How about Afrikaans?
>
> >>Afrikaans started out as Dutch, but divergence over time has caused it
> >>to be classed as a separate language. Afrikaans has acquired a lot of
> >>non-Dutch "loan" words, spellings have changed, grammar has simplified
> >>a bit, and so on, although there are still similarities between the two.
> >>Some would even say "zij zijn bijna de zelfde."
>
> >>But you probably looked this up athttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans
> >>and knew this anyway.
>
> >No, but I did take a class in Afrikaans when in South Africa
> >in the 1960s. Seemed to be a crude sort of language, grammar wise.
>
> I suspect Dutch is too.
> --
> ---
> DFM -http://www.deepfriedmars.com
> ---
> --

more spitting tho

I have been told that Dutch and Flemish are similar but not equal, but a
Dutchman will be understood in Belgium and vice versa.

It probably can be likened to the Austrian version of German. It is
understood in Germany but the choice of words is somewhat different and
occasionally you have a good laugh.

On 28 Jul, 09:55, "Turan Fettahoglu" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have been told that Dutch and Flemish are similar but not equal, but a
> Dutchman will be understood in Belgium and vice versa.
>
> It probably can be likened to the Austrian version of German. It is
> understood in Germany but the choice of words is somewhat different and
> occasionally you have a good laugh.

a Dutchman would be understood in flanders

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007, Turan Fettahoglu wrote:

> I have been told that Dutch and Flemish are similar but not equal, but a
> Dutchman will be understood in Belgium and vice versa.

The standard language (algemeen nederlands) is called "Dutch" and is the
same in both countries. The name "Flemish" is used for the various
regional dialects in Flanders. Therefore, "Flemish" isn't a specific
language, but a collection of dialects.

Standard Dutch is fixed by the taalunie, http://taalunieversum.org/, with
representatives from the Netherlands, Belgium, and Suriname.

--
Yves Bellefeuille
<[email protected]>