Sixofonehalfdozenoftheother

"David Spiro" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "John Starrett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I am going to France next summer, and as usual, I have nothing to fear.
    > > French people don't hate Americans, but they do hate self righteous
    > > jingoists. And who was it that spit on Armstrong? Germans, not French.
    > >
    > > Don't go to Paris in the summer when it is hot and all the tourists with
    > > their endless demands and stupid comments are making the locals testy.
    > >
    > > Go to the French countryside and visit with the farmers and winemakers.
    > > Stay in a gîte (pronounced zheet), a country style bed and breakfast,
    > > many of which are only $40 a night. Eat the food, drink the wine, thank
    > > them for hiding downed US airmen in WWII. I guarantee you you will not
    > > feel threatened.
    > >
    > > --
    > > John Starrett
    >
    > My wife and I are planning to visit France next fall. (Or next spring,
    > depending on what my mechanic is going to charge me tomorrow for a car
    > repair I need..........) thanks for the B&B tip. As for the rest, I already
    > figured as much, but thanks anyway.........

I also recommend the southwest. Arcachon is beautiful - driving
distance from the Bordeaux wine fields, and you can also drive south
to Spain in about half an hour and check out the Basque region. From
there it's about an hour to the Guggenheim in Bilbao. Beautiful
country (countries) , wonderful, friendly people.

Sam

To the contrary. Many Americans are reporting such incidents. Can you
imagine something like that happening here? Unimaginable, isn't it?
"**** France" and "**** Chirac" T-shirts are not in style here. If
anybody wore one, he'd be covered in shame and universally despised
for such rabid malevolence.

But, no matter what, Europeans just don't get it. They don't know
right from wrong.

Which means they are no font wisdom, either.

This reminds me of the last time the Leviathan suddenly erupted from
them as their goody-goody mask came off. On Kistalnacht. The less we
have to do with such uncivilized people, the better.

Sam

Terry Simmons <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > In article <[email protected] >,
    > [email protected] (Bobby Fischler) wrote:
    >
    > > http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/18138.htm
    > >
    > > July 22, 2004 -- Asinine German cycling fans harassed five-time Tour
    > > de France champion Lance Armstrong during yesterday's grueling ride
    > > though the French Alps ? two of the "idiots" spat on him, and another
    > > spectator chased him while wearing a "F - - - Bush" T-shirt. By the
    > > end of the day, of course, the spit on Armstrong was exchanged for a
    > > bath of champagne, thanks to the Texan's time-trial victory.
    > > But the win did not erase what had happened.
    > >
    > > "I don't think it's safe," said Armstrong
    > >
    > > That sentiment was captured in a roadside sign last week that read,
    > > "Lance Go Home."
    > >
    > > As a result, Armstrong has bodyguards during the three-week race.
    > >
    > > "Nothing against the French, but in France, they're after us,"
    > > Armstrong said.
    >
    > Not many of us is likely to have travel experiences like those of Lance
    > Armstrong, so one wonders why this item has turned up here.
    >
    > But it does provide the opportunity to salute Armstrong, one of the most
    > remarkable (and intelligent) sportsmen on the planet. Viva Lance!

Tim Kroesen

Actually Germans and Dutch were amongst the most wonderful and civilized
people I met in Europe! What a great standard of living they have too!

One German family to whom I was literally 'just a friend of a friend'
took me into their home and treated me like one of their own. I wonder;
are you civilized and caring enough do that...?

Tim K

"Sam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > To the contrary. Many Americans are reporting such incidents. Can you
    > imagine something like that happening here? Unimaginable, isn't it?
    > "**** France" and "**** Chirac" T-shirts are not in style here. If
    > anybody wore one, he'd be covered in shame and universally despised
    > for such rabid malevolence.
    > But, no matter what, Europeans just don't get it. They don't know
    > right from wrong.
    > Which means they are no font wisdom, either.
    > This reminds me of the last time the Leviathan suddenly erupted from
    > them as their goody-goody mask came off. On Kistalnacht. The less we
    > have to do with such uncivilized people, the better.
    > Sam
    > Terry Simmons <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > > In article <[email protected] >,
    > > [email protected] (Bobby Fischler) wrote:
    > >
    > > > http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/18138.htm
    > > >
    > > > July 22, 2004 -- Asinine German cycling fans harassed five-time
Tour
    > > > de France champion Lance Armstrong during yesterday's grueling
ride
    > > > though the French Alps ? two of the "idiots" spat on him, and
another
    > > > spectator chased him while wearing a "F - - - Bush" T-shirt. By
the
    > > > end of the day, of course, the spit on Armstrong was exchanged for
a
    > > > bath of champagne, thanks to the Texan's time-trial victory.
    > > > But the win did not erase what had happened.
    > > >
    > > > "I don't think it's safe," said Armstrong
    > > >
    > > > That sentiment was captured in a roadside sign last week that
read,
    > > > "Lance Go Home."
    > > >
    > > > As a result, Armstrong has bodyguards during the three-week race.
    > > >
    > > > "Nothing against the French, but in France, they're after us,"
    > > > Armstrong said.
    > >
    > > Not many of us is likely to have travel experiences like those of
Lance
    > > Armstrong, so one wonders why this item has turned up here.
    > >
    > > But it does provide the opportunity to salute Armstrong, one of the
most
    > > remarkable (and intelligent) sportsmen on the planet. Viva Lance!

Tim Kroesen

That's a pretty good Idiot to Fan ratio any US sporting event should
*envy*...<g>

Tim K

"emmanuel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > He's a great champion, he seems to enjoy France and has a lot of fans
    > here, and as far as I remember, he said before the Iraqi war that it
was
    > a mistake. Those who spat on him are idiots, but it's only 2 people
out
    > of 800 000 supporters.

John Starrett

Tim Kroesen wrote:

    > Actually Germans and Dutch were amongst the most wonderful and civilized
    > people I met in Europe! What a great standard of living they have too!
    >
    > One German family to whom I was literally 'just a friend of a friend'
    > took me into their home and treated me like one of their own. I wonder;
    > are you civilized and caring enough do that...?
    >
    > Tim K

I have had the same experience, that is, meeting Europeans who were
incredibly nice and helpful. I have had great experiences with French,
Italian, and German people. One who really stood out was a Slovene who,
even though we had just met, booked us in a hotel that cost 1/5 of what
we were paying in downtown Ljubljana, and took of a day of work just to
show us around his country. The next time we visited, he let us live in
his summer house in the mountains for free. We gave his name to another
friend, and when he went on a trip to climb the Slovenian alps, our
Slovene friend loaned him his car, even though the only connection was
that he was *our* friend.

I really hope that most of the people putting down Europeans are trolls
or paid political disinformation operatives, because if their proportion
in these newsgroups is anywhere near their proportion in society, we
are in big trouble.

--
John Starrett


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Tim Kroesen

Thank goodness for that ditz; else how could we relate actual
experience!

Tim K

"John Starrett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Tim Kroesen wrote:
    > > Actually Germans and Dutch were amongst the most wonderful and
civilized
    > > people I met in Europe! What a great standard of living they have
too!
    > >
    > > One German family to whom I was literally 'just a friend of a
friend'
    > > took me into their home and treated me like one of their own. I
wonder;
    > > are you civilized and caring enough do that...?
    > >
    > > Tim K
    > I have had the same experience, that is, meeting Europeans who were
    > incredibly nice and helpful. I have had great experiences with French,
    > Italian, and German people. One who really stood out was a Slovene
who,
    > even though we had just met, booked us in a hotel that cost 1/5 of
what
    > we were paying in downtown Ljubljana, and took of a day of work just
to
    > show us around his country. The next time we visited, he let us live
in
    > his summer house in the mountains for free. We gave his name to
another
    > friend, and when he went on a trip to climb the Slovenian alps, our
    > Slovene friend loaned him his car, even though the only connection was
    > that he was *our* friend.
    > I really hope that most of the people putting down Europeans are
trolls
    > or paid political disinformation operatives, because if their
proportion
    > in these newsgroups is anywhere near their proportion in society, we
    > are in big trouble.
    > --
    > John Starrett
    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
    > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
    > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Valiant

    > I am going to France next summer, and as usual, I have nothing to fear.
    > French people don't hate Americans, but they do hate self righteous
    > jingoists.

Oh yeah, I guess that's why so many of them spike tourist food and put
"Americans Go Home" signs on their windows. By the way, what the heck
does Cheney and Co killing thousands of RPG wielding militants in Iraq
have to do with Armstrong winning the Tour de France?


    > Don't go to Paris in the summer when it is hot and all the tourists
    > with their endless demands and stupid comments are making the locals
    > testy.

Those poor poor people. I bet the malevolent B-oo-sh, (cause of every
single death and stubbed toe in modern history) with his oil buddies at
NATO forced every single one at gunpoint to hawk snails and frog legs to
gullible travelers for an exorbitant surplus of Euros.

Maybe we should help out all these tired noble Frenchmen and withdraw
all travel and dollars we pour into this totally nontourist dependant
nation. I mean, zhous Americans are stupid! Aside from overzealous
government agents they don't care about the nationality of a visitor
when they should be bitterly complaining and stereotyping every tourist!
Stop pestering Jacque for the privilage of buying his miniature Eiffel
Towers and let him get on to more important things, like bathing his
poodle Fifi Le Foo all day.


Eat the food, drink the wine,
    > thank them for hiding downed US airmen in WWII. I guarantee you you
    > will not feel threatened.

Yeah, how dare these Yankee imperialists storm into the French
countryside without Hitler's permission and fight nazis! The Vichy liked
things just the way they were thank you very much! If you dont' want to
be THREATENED, You better prostrate yourselves and thank us that our
ancestors suffered your hide over our immaculate thresholds, especially
after engaging in the unthinkable crime of trying to liberate Paris.


Get real, the only thing rotten is that French government has pulled the
wool over the eyes of a vocal (hopefully minority) of French citizens.
The only French people who should be upset at the US are the fat cat
politicians and powerbrokers with all their sleazy Iraq contracts.
They're getting you to do the work for them. Guess, there's more than
one blind nation eh?

Mutamam

No wonder he's a nazi.

Hes against the war, is left of center politicaaly, and sleeps with a
alt.rock musician. How can he be a Nazi?

Devil

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:45:34 -0700, Mutamam wrote:

    > No wonder he's a nazi.
    >
    > Hes against the war, is left of center politicaaly, and sleeps with a
    > alt.rock musician.

Male or female?

    > How can he be a Nazi?

Frank F. Matthews

Valiant wrote:

    >>I am going to France next summer, and as usual, I have nothing to fear.
    >>French people don't hate Americans, but they do hate self righteous
    >>jingoists.

    > Oh yeah, I guess that's why so many of them spike tourist food and put
    > "Americans Go Home" signs on their windows. By the way, what the heck
    > does Cheney and Co killing thousands of RPG wielding militants in Iraq
    > have to do with Armstrong winning the Tour de France?

snip

Do you have any real evidence for the prevalence of "Americans Go Home"
signs. I spent a week and a half in Paris and didn't notice any in
either English or French.

As to tour spectators. Drunk Europeans are about the same as drunk
rednecks.

Devil

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:35:04 +0000, Frank F. Matthews wrote:

    > Valiant wrote:
    >
    >>>I am going to France next summer, and as usual, I have nothing to fear.
    >>>French people don't hate Americans, but they do hate self righteous
    >>>jingoists.
    >
    >> Oh yeah, I guess that's why so many of them spike tourist food and put
    >> "Americans Go Home" signs on their windows. By the way, what the heck
    >> does Cheney and Co killing thousands of RPG wielding militants in Iraq
    >> have to do with Armstrong winning the Tour de France?
    >
    > snip
    >
    > Do you have any real evidence for the prevalence of "Americans Go Home"
    > signs. I spent a week and a half in Paris and didn't notice any in
    > either English or French.
    >
    > As to tour spectators. Drunk Europeans are about the same as drunk
    > rednecks.


This is a red herring. Pure unadulterated right wing BS. They need a
scapegoat for their own idiocy, that's all.

Wolfgang Barth

Juliana L Holm schrieb:
    >
    > Next year I am planning a two month sabbatical in Germany, studying with
    > the Goethe institut.
    >
    > There are arrogant Americans, and they will mix badly with Arrogant
    > Europeans. But the vast majority of Europeans and Americans are nicely
    > behaved friendly people.

And that will be the same in Germany.

The vast majority here just believes that Bush is an arrogant and
dangerous idiot. But they do not have any problems with american
tourists if they do not hang out their "neoconservative" attitude.

Wolfgang

Devil

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 19:38:08 +0200, Wolfgang Barth wrote:

    > Juliana L Holm schrieb:
    >>
    >> Next year I am planning a two month sabbatical in Germany, studying with
    >> the Goethe institut.
    >>
    >> There are arrogant Americans, and they will mix badly with Arrogant
    >> Europeans. But the vast majority of Europeans and Americans are nicely
    >> behaved friendly people.
    >
    > And that will be the same in Germany.
    >
    > The vast majority here just believes that Bush is an arrogant and
    > dangerous idiot. But they do not have any problems with american
    > tourists if they do not hang out their "neoconservative" attitude.

Actually, even in the US, confusing an anti-Bush administration attitude
with being "anti-American" (good morning, Mr. McCarthy) is really a right
wing ploy. Playing the guilt of those opposed to the Bush follies while
US troops are at risk overseas as a result.

It's pretty clear that US opinion is getting more polarized than ever.
Perhaps to the point of becoming dangerous. The talk from the Bush crowd
about potentially delaying presidential election under the guise of
terrorist threats did not smell all that wonderful. Good thing that they
backed down when Congress did not like the idea.

EvelynVogtGamble

devil wrote:

    >
    >
    > This is a red herring. Pure unadulterated right wing BS. They need a
    > scapegoat for their own idiocy, that's all.


Since most of the people I associate with are educated and intelligent,
I also thought this "anti-French" nonsense was limited to red-necks,
until I attended a concert at Hollywood Bowl last week. (They were
playing the Mahler 2nd, a program not exactly designed to pull in the
ignorant and uncultured.) To my astonishment, I actually heard some
woman in a seat behind me proclaim that "of course" they don't buy
French wine, anymore! (My companion stopped me before I got any further
than turning around to exclaim "You can't be serious!")

How CAN my fellow countrymen be so ignorant? (And God help our country
if that mentality prevails in the next election!)

    >
    >
    >
    >

Magda

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 12:18:03 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :


... Since most of the people I associate with are educated and intelligent,
... I also thought this "anti-French" nonsense was limited to red-necks,
... until I attended a concert at Hollywood Bowl last week. (They were
... playing the Mahler 2nd, a program not exactly designed to pull in the
... ignorant and uncultured.) To my astonishment, I actually heard some
... woman in a seat behind me proclaim that "of course" they don't buy
... French wine, anymore! (My companion stopped me before I got any further
... than turning around to exclaim "You can't be serious!")
...
... How CAN my fellow countrymen be so ignorant? (And God help our country
... if that mentality prevails in the next election!)

http://www.ctnow.com/news/opinion/op...,4676340.story

Entering A Dark Age Of Illiteracy

July 20, 2004
Andrei Codrescu

If you don't read good books, your brain will shrink and you will become
a slave of advertising.

Two new studies make this point forcefully. A survey of American reading
habits notes that Americans now read 14 percent less literature than
they did in 1992. Another study measuring brain activity finds that
people who don't read respond much slower to situations involving
thoughtful decisions, operating at a level close to lizards.

Some commentators are blaming schools because they don't teach
literature anymore. Others blame cellphones because they are making
solitude rare and chatter is replacing all solitary activities,
including reading. Television, of course, sucks down a huge amount of
leisure time. But if a shrinking brain is not sufficient reason to pick
up books again, consider this: The ability to fantasize and dream is
shrinking right along with the brain. People who do not fantasize or
indulge in reverie are incapable of envisioning the future, whether as
opportunity or just a reasonable analysis of options.

The same goes for dreams, whether hypnagogic or nocturnal. Not dreaming
means that you are depriving even your unconscious of the ability to
psychically organize your life. The net result of these rapidly
occurring losses is an emptying of the individual self, leaving people
vulnerable to any and all persuasion from the outside.

Look no further than the political scene to see that paid commercials
have become the chief persuader in political campaigns. Predictions are
that by 2010, the only people who will be still resistant to propaganda
will be hiding in the woods reliving "Fahrenheit 451" (the novel by Ray
Bradbury, not Michael Moore's political movie "Fahrenheit 9/11"). In
Bradbury's book, people memorize books and become those books because
books are forbidden.

Obviously, there is no need for the state to ban books now. Non-readers
are banning them quite willingly. Not reading literature means turning
away from the nourishing spring that's fed human evolution for at least
half a millennium.

As a writer, I'm worried, of course, about my sales, but I speak
altruistically here. Our schools should start training literate monks at
least as hard as techies are trained, because the dark ages are upon us.


Andrei Codrescu is a regular commentator on National Public Radio. His
most recent novel is "Wakefield" (Algonquin Books of Chapel Hill, 2004).
This article was distributed by Featurewell.com, an op-ed service.
--